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Our Much Vaunted Academy


Nunya Business

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Nunya Business

I'm deadly serious here though. Part of this wonderful 5 year plan was to have one of the best academies in the country and, so far, Celtic can also lay claim to the only real prospect we've brought through since Ann Budge took over.

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Hickey the obvious one. Then Andy Irving who must seriously wondering how he is unable to get a game over Lee / Halliday. But apart from that... dire, which is an understatement. 
 

Stone and Watson are 2 promising players coming through though. 

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Callum Patterson 

Andrew Irving 

Ewan Henderson 

There isn't a lot to be honest. How many Scottish youth prospects have came through any acedemy that you find decent in the past decade? 

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Nunya Business
Quote

 

Objective No 3

 

Invest in our Football Academy and in our Youth Players to the extent needed to ensure a steady supply of home-grown talent for the foreseeable future.

 

In season 2017/18, no fewer than 8 of our academy players were given their first professional contracts. In that season, we played more youngsters in our first team than any other professional Club in Europe. In season 2018/19, we continued that trend, with 9 of our academy players signing professional contracts.  For the 2019/2020 season we have offered professional contracts to a further 6 of our young players.

Over the last 5 years, we have invested in excess of £4million in our Youth Academy and additionally, we have invested in our very own Performance School. Strong foundations have definitely been laid, from which we hope to reap substantial future benefit.

 

 

This is from her statement in August 2019.

 

If this is a KPI the club are to be judged upon, this is pretty damning.

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Nunya Business
2 minutes ago, Restonbabe said:

Callum Patterson 

Andrew Irving 

Ewan Henderson 

There isn't a lot to be honest. How many Scottish youth prospects have came through any acedemy that you find decent in the past decade? 

 

Callum Paterson was in the setup and playing for the 1st team before she rocked up.

 

Andy Irving and Ewan Henderson can't get into the starting line up ahead of disinterested mercenaries. 

 

EDIT: David Turnbull & Allan Campbell both came from Motherwells youth ranks and were major success for them. Kieran Tierney did alright for Celtic. Josh Magennis brought in a record fee when he moved to Hibs from St Mirren. And that's off the top of my head.

Edited by Nunya Business
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The players are there, we just don't give them the platform.  It's our approach to youth development that is the issue, not necessarily the quality of players.

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Footballfirst
4 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

Hickey the obvious one. Then Andy Irving who must seriously wondering how he is unable to get a game over Lee / Halliday. But apart from that... dire, which is an understatement. 
 

Stone and Watson are 2 promising players coming through though. 

 

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10 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

 

 

1 minute ago, Famous 1874 said:

Good to hear FF. Any other lads who you think could make the step up?

The 14-17 age group is prob the best way to judge how our academy is progressing. 16/17 is a bit of a debatable point but below that will be telling.

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AlphonseCapone
18 minutes ago, Restonbabe said:

Callum Patterson 

Andrew Irving 

Ewan Henderson 

There isn't a lot to be honest. How many Scottish youth prospects have came through any acedemy that you find decent in the past decade? 

 

Not yet clear whether either are good enough for us so won't count them. 

 

The other consideration is how many youth players other teams are bringing through, might be perception but feels like many other teams do it better without the facilities and budget we have. 

Edited by AlphonseCapone
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Just now, sadj said:

 

The 14-17 age group is prob the best way to judge how our academy is progressing. 16/17 is a bit of a debatable point but below that will be telling.

Yeah plus the academy basically started from scratch so could take a few more years before we hopefully reap the benefits from the investment 

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Just now, Famous 1874 said:

Yeah plus the academy basically started from scratch so could take a few more years before we hopefully reap the benefits from the investment 


👍🏻

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Footballfirst
7 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

Good to hear FF. Any other lads who you think could make the step up?

Callum Flatman would be the likeliest one, but I haven't seen any academy games this season to be able to make a judgement on how the youngsters are developing.

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Tokyo Drifter
46 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

Anyone able to rhyme off a list of youth prospects we've brought through in the last 6 years?

Make that 16 years.

 

And who's the last homegrown striker we've produced? You're going back 30, 40 years probably. 

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18Jambo_dave74

Another area of the football club that has been massively underperforming for some time.

 

Playing Championship football and none of our youngsters are good enough to get in the team.

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22 minutes ago, Tokyo Drifter said:

Make that 16 years.

 

And who's the last homegrown striker we've produced? You're going back 30, 40 years probably. 

Our inability to bring through a striker is frightening. Clum was probably the last okay(ish) one in the last 20 years. He went downhill pretty rapidly.

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57 minutes ago, Restonbabe said:

Callum Patterson 

Andrew Irving 

Ewan Henderson 

There isn't a lot to be honest. How many Scottish youth prospects have came through any acedemy that you find decent in the past decade? 

True

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42 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Callum Flatman would be the likeliest one, but I haven't seen any academy games this season to be able to make a judgement on how the youngsters are developing.

Fair point. Also heard good things about Flatman 👍

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The players are there, Robbie chooses not to use them.  
 

We loan players out to this level, but when they come back to us we refuse to play them against teams at this level!  Baffling. 

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22 minutes ago, Bigbazza said:

The Academy went downhill when box soccer was introduced in 2016 and the Technical Coach decided to leave the club

Who was that ?

 

8 minutes ago, gashauskis9 said:

The players are there, Robbie chooses not to use them.  
 

We loan players out to this level, but when they come back to us we refuse to play them against teams at this level!  Baffling. 

Agree 100%. CL was the same ...... as evidenced by the ridiculous number of players he signed in 5 windows, despite trying and then ignoring several youths (e.g. Cochrane, McDonald, Henderson, Moore).   Baffling and frustrating for everyone.

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34 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Who was that ?

 

Agree 100%. CL was the same ...... as evidenced by the ridiculous number of players he signed in 5 windows, despite trying and then ignoring several youths (e.g. Cochrane, McDonald, Henderson, Moore).   Baffling and frustrating for everyone.

He didn't play them today so he is unlikely to play them this season, as does not trust them the numbnut.

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2 hours ago, Restonbabe said:

Callum Patterson 

Andrew Irving 

Ewan Henderson 

There isn't a lot to be honest. How many Scottish youth prospects have came through any acedemy that you find decent in the past decade? 


Callum Paterson played with Tynecastle BC for most of his juvenile career (8 - 16) and not developed through the Academy. If I remember correctly Tynecastle BC were entitled to a development fee when he went to Cardiff.

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olivialinnell
3 hours ago, sadj said:

 

The 14-17 age group is prob the best way to judge how our academy is progressing. 16/17 is a bit of a debatable point but below that will be telling.

Hearts ruin their young lads mentally, don't offer them any guidance. A young lad Dylin released himself due to problems and coaches already have there favourites the clubs a joke.

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Footballfirst
2 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

Who was that ?

Roy Craig.  He was well liked by the youngsters.   

 

However, he wasn't the only coach who left after the academy was restructured by CL.  

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What are the scouts seeing at boys club football, are there even scouts doing the rounds? Have the scouts got a decent relationship with any BC?

Edited by Hesh
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2 hours ago, gashauskis9 said:

The players are there, Robbie chooses not to use them.  
 

We loan players out to this level, but when they come back to us we refuse to play them against teams at this level!  Baffling. 

Not any better.

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Pasquale for King
3 hours ago, gashauskis9 said:

The players are there, Robbie chooses not to use them.  
 

We loan players out to this level, but when they come back to us we refuse to play them against teams at this level!  Baffling. 

Indeed. Irving/Henderson/Moore/Cochrane/Macdonald/Morrison are no worse than some of the experienced dross that have played ahead of them this season. Frear/Roberts/Walker have been awful and even guys like Lee/Halliday/Naismith haven’t done much. 

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Shut it down. It's cost millions and the chances of it ever succeeding are minute - see what Brentford did with their academy and how they develop their youngsters now. 

 

Frankly the millions spent (someone said £4 million so far ?) don't justify the meagre rewards to date ie a few kids making a few appearances and then quietly disappearing into the basement of Scottish football. Almost as if someone shamelessly indulged in a bit of self promotion to justify the academy project. 

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Does this look like the CV of someone with a good record in producing Hearts level footballers?  After a £4m plus spend he's produced next to nothing.

 

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/roger-arnott-652a2a5b

 

A quick look suggests that Motherwell (who have produced far more than our lot) since 2013 have had Scott Leitch then Steven Hammell in the equivalent position.  Two ex players with long playing records.

 

There was so much hope that Levein had the idea of something revolutionary in youth development.  Like everything else from him it was just a mess.  Ann Budge even told us how disorganised Levein was - he didn't even know what the reporting lines were.

 

It desperately needs someone to look at it all.

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It is pretty telling with our youth setup by looking at the Scotland Under-21 setup.  Several years ago we had 4 or 5 players in there.

 

Now we just have Andy Irving and he is not always making the squad.

 

Something has gone badly wrong here.

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18 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Not yet clear whether either are good enough for us so won't count them. 

 

The other consideration is how many youth players other teams are bringing through, might be perception but feels like many other teams do it better without the facilities and budget we have. 

Cannot agree with this. It is easier for a kid to get into the Hamilton team than Hearts, and it is harder for a kid to make the breakthrough at Celtic than at Hearts (As Hickey clearly realised)

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12 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Cannot agree with this. It is easier for a kid to get into the Hamilton team than Hearts, and it is harder for a kid to make the breakthrough at Celtic than at Hearts (As Hickey clearly realised)

Perhaps that is true in the SPL. We're in the Championship however and our best youths can't even get a kick. 

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Just now, Cruyff said:

Perhaps that is true in the SPL. We're in the Championship however and our best youths can't even get a kick. 

Yes but I suspect the plan was to get to the top of the table ASAP in case the season gets called early, and Robbie will play experienced players to achieve this. Youth will be bled in once we are winning and the squad's confidence is up. 

 

The Dunfermline loss was a problem but we still beat Alloa in the league...

 

I think Robbie is doing what Robbie does and giving league priority over cups. This seemed reversed under other managers since Robbie was last here and look where it got us...

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1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

Yes but I suspect the plan was to get to the top of the table ASAP in case the season gets called early, and Robbie will play experienced players to achieve this. Youth will be bled in once we are winning and the squad's confidence is up. 

 

The Dunfermline loss was a problem but we still beat Alloa in the league...

 

I think Robbie is doing what Robbie does and giving league priority over cups. This seemed reversed under other managers since Robbie was last here and look where it got us...

Some of our Academy players have contributed more than the likes of Frear and Roberts. 

 

Lewis Moore for 2 assists in 9 appearances last season. Euan Henderson had 1 goal and 2 assists in 14 appearances and Andy Irving is one of the most technically gifted players in the squad scoring a number of goals as well as laying on quite a few. 

 

These guys have already been bled, infact they have proven themselves as capable at a higher level yet can't get a kick ahead of shite like Frear and Roberts in the Championship. Something quite clearly wrong there. 

 

Robbie had his best XI on the park yesterday and has now went 2hrs and 45 minutes without even bothering the Alloa keeper. So can't be a case of priorities. It looks more like a case of shite signings and shan tactics on his part. 

Edited by Cruyff
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5 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Some of our Academy players have contributed more than the likes of Frear and Roberts. 

 

Lewis Moore for 2 assists in 9 appearances last season. Euan Henderson had 1 goal and 2 assists in 14 appearances and Andy Irving is one of the most technically gifted players in the squad scoring a number of goals as well as laying on quite a few. 

 

These guys have already been bled, infact they have proven themselves as capable at a higher level yet can't get a kick ahead of shite like Frear and Roberts in the Championship. Something quite clearly wrong there. 

 

Robbie had his best XI on the park yesterday and has now went 2hrs and 45 minutes without even bothering the Alloa keeper. So can't be a case of priorities. It looks more like a case of shite signings and shan tactics on his part. 

Well they should really be getting a chance after the exploits of the front 6 yesterday.  In episode 2 of the documentary, Stendal made an interesting observation about quickness of feet versus quickness of thought re Henderson. These are the things we don't see usually...

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1 minute ago, Spellczech said:

Well they should really be getting a chance after the exploits of the front 6 yesterday.  In episode 2 of the documentary, Stendal made an interesting observation about quickness of feet versus quickness of thought re Henderson. These are the things we don't see usually...

Most definitely. I don't see why not. I can't understand why he took Wighton out of the centre forward position either when he had been scoring goals. 

 

Stendel is probably a good coach, especially with youth players. At least he tried to fulfil part of his duties by playing young players and trying to get them to play with expression and freedom. 

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Popescu signed... Hamilton out on loan? 
 

Frear and Roberts signed...Henderson on bench and Moore disappeared? 
 

Irving not getting a game when Lee and Halliday have been poor

 

Give the lads a chance to either succeed or fail.

 

For example, Porteous will be at Edinburgh City in a few years but least he was given the chance 

Edited by R1874
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16 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Not yet clear whether either are good enough for us so won't count them. 

 

The other consideration is how many youth players other teams are bringing through, might be perception but feels like many other teams do it better without the facilities and budget we have. 

 

Well, Hamilton see to do ok with their young players given the gulf in finances. Motherwell have done ok with theirs also. Aberdeen are starting to see a few get games regularly. The last time we were in the Championship, we had about half a team-full and they were given chances. Holt, Paterson, Walker, Nicholson, King, McHattie, Mackay, McGhee, Smith, Hamilton and others all got games and although the majority were never going to cut it at top level, they did enough to contribute to our promotion. Some of them were here even before Budge and Levein arrived so where has it gone wrong?Here we are four/five years on and the ones that have had a chance have drifted out of sight. Cochrane, MacDonald, Moore, even the departed Keena and others are nowhere to be seen. We are now pinning our hopes on the likes of McGill and Henderson and one or two more. It's not great. Looking back years ago we picked boys from boys clubs. Robertson, Bowman, MacKay, McLaren etc etc. The academy seems to be an awful lot of money for little to nothing in return.

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SomethingAboutObua
15 hours ago, Coco said:

Does this look like the CV of someone with a good record in producing Hearts level footballers?  After a £4m plus spend he's produced next to nothing.

 

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/roger-arnott-652a2a5b

 

A quick look suggests that Motherwell (who have produced far more than our lot) since 2013 have had Scott Leitch then Steven Hammell in the equivalent position.  Two ex players with long playing records.

 

There was so much hope that Levein had the idea of something revolutionary in youth development.  Like everything else from him it was just a mess.  Ann Budge even told us how disorganised Levein was - he didn't even know what the reporting lines were.

 

It desperately needs someone to look at it all.

****ing hell at that CV. Can anyone name a recent Dunfermline youth player ripping it up anywhere? 

I'm embarrassed to admit I assumed we had someone with an exemplary CV running the show. ****ing hell, who is putting forward these names and who is offering them jobs?

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