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3 hours ago, Saughton Jambo said:

I don’t need to check any minutes about our stand and who entered into any agreement. I’m sure if the club were lobbied then they have minuted meetings and would need full transparency as to how contractors were decide and by what process.
 

I have no problem with the stand or the contractor or the cost for that matter. 
 

To suggest there was any impropriety and to call someone out for it, is slanderous. To insist something improper had happened that precluded a fair and unjust act occurred is libellous. 

It is entirely your right to have no issue with the stand nor its cost.

 

Equally, as a fellow shareholder, you should respect the fact that some of us have a contrary view and an equal voice to raise our concerns. Yours is not the only opinion / voice.

 

And as for your claims of being ITK ? You”ll forgive me if I take that with a healthy dose of Saxa.....your previous ITK exclusives / inside tracks have been well wide of the mark. 
 

 

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50 minutes ago, Big Slim Stylee said:


They were queuing up weren’t they?😀

Thats how I remember it. I hate that people can’t separate the good work and long term plans she has brought to fruition and continues to do to grow the business side of the club from the poor football side where criticism is deserved. 
 

The commercial success in turn needs shown on the pitch with consistency not a few cup runs but sustained league success. We are failing in this badly. They are entitled to bitch and moan about the performances. If not the results this season. The lack of desire and intensity on the pitch. That just becomes Budge is shit though. People said JJ advising would change things. They get that its not. Whatever is causing the poor body language of players and insipid performances needs resolved. Robbie is capable he did it with arguably a poorer squad last time. He is not my choice of manager but again without paying attention I don’t know who was available but Im also not sure Stendel would have succeeded this year. 
 

AB deserves credit and criticism. The sad thing is the way people choose to show that criticism. 

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17 minutes ago, sadj said:

😘🤣 Here was me agreeing with you on stuff yesterday too. It has ruined my online confidence being on your ignore list however.😉

Not you !!!!! 😅

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Francis Albert
1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Budge has just extended the club a 1m loan. We're profitable because of benefactors she brought on board. Why on earth would we risk losing that kind of support by changing ownership during a financial meltdown?

Once the shares are transferred nothing about how  Hearts are run will change. Why would the financial  support from the benefactors  change? 

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1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:


They sought out Budge six years ago. Six! A lot has gone on in that time and we’re back where we started. So yes, great that she got involved then. But she’s outstayed her welcome and I’ll say it again - there’s no evidence of FOH influencing anything on the inside. And nothing to suggest that their fear of saying anything publicly is any different privately.

So, when Budge does go and FoH take over, in your eyes not much will have changed?

 

You may be right about FoH and them being quiet through fear, but equally you may be wrong. As for influence, I doubt Budge is running everything by them, out with normal board protocols. But as it stands, she owns the business. Like Mercer  and Vlad before her. Robinson to a lesser extent I think?

 

Again, we're all pissed off at where we are in a footballing, competitive way, and again that's on her watch, but from a business perspective, infrastructure etc we are doing ok. Sounds a bit jam tomorrow, and given what has been spent we shouldn't even be debating this, however let's say the footballing side was ok, would we talking about the other stuff? I doubt it.

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9 hours ago, sadj said:

Thats how I remember it. I hate that people can’t separate the good work and long term plans she has brought to fruition and continues to do to grow the business side of the club from the poor football side where criticism is deserved. 
 

The commercial success in turn needs shown on the pitch with consistency not a few cup runs but sustained league success. We are failing in this badly. They are entitled to bitch and moan about the performances. If not the results this season. The lack of desire and intensity on the pitch. That just becomes Budge is shit though. People said JJ advising would change things. They get that its not. Whatever is causing the poor body language of players and insipid performances needs resolved. Robbie is capable he did it with arguably a poorer squad last time. He is not my choice of manager but again without paying attention I don’t know who was available but Im also not sure Stendel would have succeeded this year. 
 

AB deserves credit and criticism. The sad thing is the way people choose to show that criticism. 

 

Your wasting your time, unless we're top and clear by 30 points, criticism will be found, be it the bogs, pies or light definition. It's completely pointless even thinking about it anymore. This place is a cesspit of negativity led by by some extremely warped individuals, I mean 51 posts on this subject alone by one of them, how much more guff can anyone post, I suspect a lot more. 

 

It's now become some individuals way of life, wake up, click open the laptop, slag off Hearts, rinse, repeat........every single day.

 

Just drags you down man, trust me sadj, it's better left alone. 

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
9 hours ago, Boris said:

So, when Budge does go and FoH take over, in your eyes not much will have changed?

 

You may be right about FoH and them being quiet through fear, but equally you may be wrong. As for influence, I doubt Budge is running everything by them, out with normal board protocols. But as it stands, she owns the business. Like Mercer  and Vlad before her. Robinson to a lesser extent I think?

 

Again, we're all pissed off at where we are in a footballing, competitive way, and again that's on her watch, but from a business perspective, infrastructure etc we are doing ok. Sounds a bit jam tomorrow, and given what has been spent we shouldn't even be debating this, however let's say the footballing side was ok, would we talking about the other stuff? I doubt it.


There was a lot of chat about the non-football side when Vlad was here, even when the football was going well. I think people are able to concentrate on both. I just don’t think it’s ever credible for a club to say yes, the football is shite but look at our amazing restaurant etc. The football is what it’s all about 

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36 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

Your wasting your time, unless we're top and clear by 30 points, criticism will be found, be it the bogs, pies or light definition. It's completely pointless even thinking about it anymore. This place is a cesspit of negativity led by by some extremely warped individuals, I mean 51 posts on this subject alone by one of them, how much more guff can anyone post, I suspect a lot more. 

 

It's now become some individuals way of life, wake up, click open the laptop, slag off Hearts, rinse, repeat........every single day.

 

Just drags you down man, trust me sadj, it's better left alone. 

 

We achived a moment of unity in the summer.... 2 defeats later and we're back to pre-covid levels of negativity.

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5 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:


There was a lot of chat about the non-football side when Vlad was here, even when the football was going well. I think people are able to concentrate on both. I just don’t think it’s ever credible for a club to say yes, the football is shite but look at our amazing restaurant etc. The football is what it’s all about 

In short, correct. 
 

 

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5 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:


There was a lot of chat about the non-football side when Vlad was here, even when the football was going well. I think people are able to concentrate on both. I just don’t think it’s ever credible for a club to say yes, the football is shite but look at our amazing restaurant etc. The football is what it’s all about 

 

And that's certainly not what I am saying.

 

End of the day results on the pitch are what it is about, on that we agree, but to have a pitch to play on the surrounding infrastructure is also required.  

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24 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

And that's certainly not what I am saying.

 

End of the day results on the pitch are what it is about, on that we agree, but to have a pitch to play on the surrounding infrastructure is also required.  

 

 

Pretty hard to disagree but Budge's problem and ultimately Hearts problem is there has to be some kind of Balance and there is not.

 

I would suggest a standard ratio of 80:20. 80 being football matters and 20 being the mundane business part that must be done. I think it is fair to say that as a club and under Budge we are 20:80 with 20 being the mundane football part and 80 being the fun business side.

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5 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Pretty hard to disagree but Budge's problem and ultimately Hearts problem is there has to be some kind of Balance and there is not.

 

I would suggest a standard ratio of 80:20. 80 being football matters and 20 being the mundane business part that must be done. I think it is fair to say that as a club and under Budge we are 20:80 with 20 being the mundane football part and 80 being the fun business side.

 

I think Budge's problem was that she left the footballing side in the hands of someone who ultimately failed, wasn't removed soon enough etc etc.

 

Time will tell if Neilson can rectify that - but is time a commodity we have?

 

And does Neilson have the where with all to do this?

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
1 hour ago, Boris said:

 

I think Budge's problem was that she left the footballing side in the hands of someone who ultimately failed, wasn't removed soon enough etc etc.

 

Time will tell if Neilson can rectify that - but is time a commodity we have?

 

And does Neilson have the where with all to do this?


The way I see it, infrastructure wise we’re in good shape - and I’m grateful to Budge for that, genuinely. But we’re not capitalising on it at all in a football sense and on that basis, a change of senior management is long overdue. Budge shows no sign of helping us reach our potential. At some point the music has to stop for her. It should have stopped by now.

 

Neilson will get us up but I don’t see it as an appointment with any vision behind it. That goes back to what I said at the start of this post - Budge is happy to settle for average because average is the easy/safe option.

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6 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:


The way I see it, infrastructure wise we’re in good shape - and I’m grateful to Budge for that, genuinely. But we’re not capitalising on it at all in a football sense and on that basis, a change of senior management is long overdue. Budge shows no sign of helping us reach our potential. At some point the music has to stop for her. It should have stopped by now.

 

That's a fair assessment, and barring Covid, I guess it may have by now with FoH taking the reins.

 

6 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

Neilson will get us up but I don’t see it as an appointment with any vision behind it. That goes back to what I said at the start of this post - Budge is happy to settle for average because average is the easy/safe option.

 

I was as unimpressed by the Neilson appointment as you.  Very meh.

 

Thanks for talking this through.  It seems a lot of us are actually not that far apart in terms of where we are in respect of Hearts and how we see us and want to progress.

 

Personally, when all the misogynistic crap starts filtering through it makes any point made lose relevance (not saying you were doing that - I'm meaning in the wider debate).  Then the shite about "sweary songs", it's like everything is conflated.  To progress we need to be able to see what's worked, what hasn't etc  Getting hung up on petty hobby horses devalues the debate and obscures the real issues.  IMO.

 

As I said in a previous post, it's not as simple as black and white, so many shades of grey here.

 

Anyway, spleen vented!

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3 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:


The way I see it, infrastructure wise we’re in good shape - and I’m grateful to Budge for that, genuinely. But we’re not capitalising on it at all in a football sense and on that basis, a change of senior management is long overdue. Budge shows no sign of helping us reach our potential. At some point the music has to stop for her. It should have stopped by now.

 

Neilson will get us up but I don’t see it as an appointment with any vision behind it. That goes back to what I said at the start of this post - Budge is happy to settle for average because average is the easy/safe option.

 

In my opinion she did things the wrong way round. She had the warnings from Hibs in the way they prioritised their Stadium above the Football Team and they had a new stand but were in the Championship.

 

I know we were wasting good money over bad in the Old Stand but that had been the case for a long time and could have managed for another 2/3 years until we got the team on the park sorted.

 

Yes we have a nice New Stand albeit still incomplete because she doesn't know what to do with it.

 

Since our new stand was built we have never had a complete sellout other than from our football management who she showed far too much respect for and that has undoubtedly cost the club millions of pounds.

 

The court case cost us a fortune as would bringing in Daniel Stendel and his team plus the players he brought and subsequently got rid of.

 

Ok nobody could have foreseen Covid 19 and the havoc that would play but it does not take the full blame for us being relegated that rests solely at the door of Ann Budge.

 

She was prepared to get involved and put up her money to bail us out and we all appreciate that fact and nobody can deny that she works very hard to try and improve the club from a business point of view but she still doesn't know much about football.

 

We need someone running the club that can progress us on the football park now that AB has got most of the commercial side on the right footing.

 

She appointed a CEO and so far what have we seen or heard of him and his plans for the club?

 

 

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
10 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

That's a fair assessment, and barring Covid, I guess it may have by now with FoH taking the reins.

 

 

I was as unimpressed by the Neilson appointment as you.  Very meh.

 

Thanks for talking this through.  It seems a lot of us are actually not that far apart in terms of where we are in respect of Hearts and how we see us and want to progress.

 

Personally, when all the misogynistic crap starts filtering through it makes any point made lose relevance (not saying you were doing that - I'm meaning in the wider debate).  Then the shite about "sweary songs", it's like everything is conflated.  To progress we need to be able to see what's worked, what hasn't etc  Getting hung up on petty hobby horses devalues the debate and obscures the real issues.  IMO.

 

As I said in a previous post, it's not as simple as black and white, so many shades of grey here.

 

Anyway, spleen vented!


Amen

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Francis Albert
2 hours ago, Rudy T said:

 

We achived a moment of unity in the summer.... 2 defeats later and we're back to pre-covid levels of negativity.

I predicted in the Alloa match thread that we'd soon be back to only 2 defeats in 11 games chat. Admittedly an easy prediction

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I predicted in the Alloa match thread that we'd soon be back to only 2 defeats in 11 games chat. Admittedly an easy prediction

 

 

 

Yes, facts are a terrible thing to chat about right enough.

 

Much better to make Shit up and get the big spoon out.

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14 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Budge has just extended the club a 1m loan. We're profitable because of benefactors she brought on board. Why on earth would we risk losing that kind of support by changing ownership during a financial meltdown?

Profitable ? You cant put FOH donations and benefactors bail outs on the balance sheet as trading revenue. Yes they are covering losses and balancing the books but they say to me that we’re most definitely not profitable at the moment, not last year and certainly not in this current year to be reported in 2021.

 

The annual report should be setting Alarm bells ringing for the mid term. Essentially if those FOH and benefactor donations were not there or even reduced significantly, we’d be in dire straits.

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2 hours ago, Rudy T said:

 

We achived a moment of unity in the summer.... 2 defeats later and we're back to pre-covid levels of negativity.

 

3 hours ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

Your wasting your time, unless we're top and clear by 30 points, criticism will be found, be it the bogs, pies or light definition. It's completely pointless even thinking about it anymore. This place is a cesspit of negativity led by by some extremely warped individuals, I mean 51 posts on this subject alone by one of them, how much more guff can anyone post, I suspect a lot more. 

 

It's now become some individuals way of life, wake up, click open the laptop, slag off Hearts, rinse, repeat........every single day.

 

Just drags you down man, trust me sadj, it's better left alone. 


This is the Way 🤣

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18 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Profitable ? You cant put FOH donations and benefactors bail outs on the balance sheet as trading revenue. Yes they are covering losses and balancing the books but they say to me that we’re most definitely not profitable at the moment, not last year and certainly not in this current year to be reported in 2021.

 

The annual report should be setting Alarm bells ringing for the mid term. Essentially if those FOH and benefactor donations were not there or even reduced significantly, we’d be in dire straits.

But that was always going to be the case.

 

I agree though with the main point - we're not well run financially and this reliance on friendly faces leave FoH in a potentially very difficult (and unforeseen ?) position ie it's not just about taking ownership any more, it's about taking ownership and potentially being left high & dry if the benefactor cash dries up (assuming the club continues to tade at a significant loss in the near future). 

We are potentially another Blackburn or Wigan in that scenario. 

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16 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

But that was always going to be the case.

 

I agree though with the main point - we're not well run financially and this reliance on friendly faces leave FoH in a potentially very difficult (and unforeseen ?) position ie it's not just about taking ownership any more, it's about taking ownership and potentially being left high & dry if the benefactor cash dries up (assuming the club continues to tade at a significant loss in the near future). 

We are potentially another Blackburn or Wigan in that scenario. 

What is essential to my mind is that the football side of the operation has to return to the relatively high level we’ve enjoyed in the recent past. That being top six finishes, regular European football etc. Good cup runs and perhaps the odd trophy now and again. That is the only sure way to generate reliable big revenue. Do that and you can then use the FOH money and any benefactor payments for further improvement and development, which is the purpose of those donations in the first place, certainly in the case of FOH. If we don’t do that fairly soon, by which I mean in the next 2 full seasons (and we’re miles off at the moment football wise) then financial distress will be on the cards. FOH donations have held up and in fact improved. A big part of that is anger and determination and solidification due to what happened to us in the summer. Take that siege mentality away and continue to be a lowly club in a football sense and those FOH donations will drop off a cliff sooner or later. Not going up this season would be financially catastrophic IMO.

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2 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

What is essential to my mind is that the football side of the operation has to return to the relatively high level we’ve enjoyed in the recent past. That being top six finishes, regular European football etc. Good cup runs and perhaps the odd trophy now and again. That is the only sure way to generate reliable big revenue. Do that and you can then use the FOH money and any benefactor payments for further improvement and development, which is the purpose of those donations in the first place, certainly in the case of FOH. If we don’t do that fairly soon, by which I mean in the next 2 full seasons (and we’re miles off at the moment football wise) then financial distress will be on the cards. FOH donations have held up and in fact improved. A big part of that is anger and determination and solidification due to what happened to us in the summer. Take that siege mentality away and continue to be a lowly club in a football sense and those FOH donations will drop off a cliff sooner or later. 

I wouldn't disagree with any of that, I don't think anyone would. 

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55 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I predicted in the Alloa match thread that we'd soon be back to only 2 defeats in 11 games chat. Admittedly an easy prediction

 

 

 

Yes, agreed....so very near sighted. Unfortunately some cannot see the bigger picture!

Alloa, Championship football, Neilson and far too many poor signings are just the catalyst setting things off.

Years of frustration being played out here...... 

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1 hour ago, JimmyCant said:

Profitable ? You cant put FOH donations and benefactors bail outs on the balance sheet as trading revenue. Yes they are covering losses and balancing the books but they say to me that we’re most definitely not profitable at the moment, not last year and certainly not in this current year to be reported in 2021.

 

The annual report should be setting Alarm bells ringing for the mid term. Essentially if those FOH and benefactor donations were not there or even reduced significantly, we’d be in dire straits.

 

 

I think this is one of the reasons why she resorted to getting Robbie back because of his previous experience of getting us and Dundee Utd promoted on a minimal budget.

 

One of his first tasks was to try and remove some of the ineffectual overpaid players that she allowed CL to bring to the club and he has managed to do that to an extent but there is still a way to go.

 

Damour and one or two others will be shown the door if not in Januaury then perhaps at the end of the season.

 

I agree with you that if you get things right on the pitch then the commercial side will floursih.

 

We have to live in the real world and AB by backing CL with his every whim got us into this situation where she had to engage and take the benefits of our benefactors.

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15 hours ago, Saughton Jambo said:

He must be though. Why else appoint him? It’s only a coincidence that Ann’s his aunty. He’s an experienced barman and the best in his craft. We’re lucky to have him in my opinion. 
 

Just like the very chap for the job after IC left, was in the building the whole time. He was best qualified was he not? After all he managed the national team so he must be. Now that  definitely wasn’t a coincidence and think of all the money we saved when he had dual status as manager and DOF on one salary. It was a win win for us 

  FFS :rofl: 

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19 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

 

I think this is one of the reasons why she resorted to getting Robbie back because of his previous experience of getting us and Dundee Utd promoted on a minimal budget.

 

One of his first tasks was to try and remove some of the ineffectual overpaid players that she allowed CL to bring to the club and he has managed to do that to an extent but there is still a way to go.

 

Damour and one or two others will be shown the door if not in Januaury then perhaps at the end of the season.

 

I agree with you that if you get things right on the pitch then the commercial side will floursih.

 

We have to live in the real world and AB by backing CL with his every whim got us into this situation where she had to engage and take the benefits of our benefactors.

Damour has a contract until 2023.  How are we going to show him the door if he chooses to sit tight?

Do you think we should get rid of Robbie now or should she persevere and keep him.  The reason I ask is because if we don't get promoted the wiseacre masters of hindsight will come on here and say we should have got rid of him after losing to Dunfy and Alloa.

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1 hour ago, NANOJAMBO said:

But that was always going to be the case.

 

I agree though with the main point - we're not well run financially and this reliance on friendly faces leave FoH in a potentially very difficult (and unforeseen ?) position ie it's not just about taking ownership any more, it's about taking ownership and potentially being left high & dry if the benefactor cash dries up (assuming the club continues to tade at a significant loss in the near future). 

We are potentially another Blackburn or Wigan in that scenario. 

 

See this is the type of hypothetical nonsense originally banded about by Hibs fans, now Hearts fans are using the same stuff to up their frustrations at Ann Budge. 

 

Look at the facts, she has generated along with FoH millions for the club, those millions have bought players on  large salaries, now had we bought the right players for that sort of wedge we'd be at the top end of the prem and this thread wouldn't exist. So let's start to separate out the reality from the hyperbole. Ann is a business person who through a variety of methods including FoH, donations, corporate deals etc put us in the healthiest financial state we've ever been in. She's then made an absolute shop front of spending it by allowing Craig Levien in particular to buy football players who are utter pony. 

 

Somehow she needs to let go of the football side to someone who knows how to run it, she has to accept their judgement. she can continue to generate money and let them spend it, lets be honest it's really quite easy to see if it's working, there's a league table to check weekly and a rather empty looking trophy cabinet to fill.

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gordon simpson

 

Having followed the Hearts from the 1960s to the present day our club is in the best off field 

position infrastructure wise  it has ever been all  my years following  HMFC.

In my mind she has made 2 off field mistakes

1 was trusting Levein with the running of the club and giving him to much  power 

2 was not giving Stendel more time 

We are now back to square one off field and I hope we can sort things out soon 

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24 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

See this is the type of hypothetical nonsense originally banded about by Hibs fans, now Hearts fans are using the same stuff to up their frustrations at Ann Budge. 

 

Look at the facts, she has generated along with FoH millions for the club, those millions have bought players on  large salaries, now had we bought the right players for that sort of wedge we'd be at the top end of the prem and this thread wouldn't exist. So let's start to separate out the reality from the hyperbole. Ann is a business person who through a variety of methods including FoH, donations, corporate deals etc put us in the healthiest financial state we've ever been in. She's then made an absolute shop front of spending it by allowing Craig Levien in particular to buy football players who are utter pony. 

 

Somehow she needs to let go of the football side to someone who knows how to run it, she has to accept their judgement. she can continue to generate money and let them spend it, lets be honest it's really quite easy to see if it's working, there's a league table to check weekly and a rather empty looking trophy cabinet to fill.

 

In a nutshell.

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32 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

See this is the type of hypothetical nonsense originally banded about by Hibs fans, now Hearts fans are using the same stuff to up their frustrations at Ann Budge. 

 

Look at the facts, she has generated along with FoH millions for the club, those millions have bought players on  large salaries, now had we bought the right players for that sort of wedge we'd be at the top end of the prem and this thread wouldn't exist. So let's start to separate out the reality from the hyperbole. Ann is a business person who through a variety of methods including FoH, donations, corporate deals etc put us in the healthiest financial state we've ever been in. She's then made an absolute shop front of spending it by allowing Craig Levien in particular to buy football players who are utter pony. 

 

Somehow she needs to let go of the football side to someone who knows how to run it, she has to accept their judgement. she can continue to generate money and let them spend it, lets be honest it's really quite easy to see if it's working, there's a league table to check weekly and a rather empty looking trophy cabinet to fill.

 

7 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

In a nutshell.

 

No arguments here with any of that.

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34 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

See this is the type of hypothetical nonsense originally banded about by Hibs fans, now Hearts fans are using the same stuff to up their frustrations at Ann Budge. 

 

Look at the facts, she has generated along with FoH millions for the club, those millions have bought players on  large salaries, now had we bought the right players for that sort of wedge we'd be at the top end of the prem and this thread wouldn't exist. So let's start to separate out the reality from the hyperbole. Ann is a business person who through a variety of methods including FoH, donations, corporate deals etc put us in the healthiest financial state we've ever been in. She's then made an absolute shop front of spending it by allowing Craig Levien in particular to buy football players who are utter pony. 

 

Somehow she needs to let go of the football side to someone who knows how to run it, she has to accept their judgement. she can continue to generate money and let them spend it, lets be honest it's really quite easy to see if it's working, there's a league table to check weekly and a rather empty looking trophy cabinet to fill.

Are these two statements not a bit contradictory.?

She did all the things you are recommending with CL already,let go of the football side,accepted his judgement,and let him spend it.

The only issue she failed with was recognising failure.and being too loyal.

Whats to say the same thing wont happen again.?

The issue seems to be that she is picking the person, something she is vastly underqualified to undertake.

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27 minutes ago, merrymac said:

Are these two statements not a bit contradictory.?

She did all the things you are recommending with CL already,let go of the football side,accepted his judgement,and let him spend it.

The only issue she failed with was recognising failure.and being too loyal.

Whats to say the same thing wont happen again.?

The issue seems to be that she is picking the person, something she is vastly underqualified to undertake.

 

She needs to do exactly what she did with Levein but this time pick someone with a proven record as DoF. My fear is she was so let down by CL that she'll stick with comfort blankets, like bringing Robbie back and having JJ as an adviser it's all too safe we need someone to shake the place up. 

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1 minute ago, Rudy T said:

 

She needs to do exactly what she did with Levein but this time pick someone with a proven record as DoF. My fear is she was so let down by CL that she'll stick with comfort blankets, like bringing Robbie back and having JJ as an adviser it's all too safe we need someone to shake the place up. 

I totally agree, but my point is given her track record should she be the one making the decision?

I for one have no confidence in her ability to choose the right person

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4 minutes ago, merrymac said:

I totally agree, but my point is given her track record should she be the one making the decision?

I for one have no confidence in her ability to choose the right person

 

I think the one thing we can all agree on, if a role at the club concerns football Ann should instantly remove herself from the process until the signature is required on the contract.

 

Get JJ to pick he knows football, knows the club and the expectations of the fans. The last part of that is what AB seems to fail to grasp at times.

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Neil Dongcaster
1 hour ago, Rudy T said:

 

See this is the type of hypothetical nonsense originally banded about by Hibs fans, now Hearts fans are using the same stuff to up their frustrations at Ann Budge. 

 

Look at the facts, she has generated along with FoH millions for the club, those millions have bought players on  large salaries, now had we bought the right players for that sort of wedge we'd be at the top end of the prem and this thread wouldn't exist. So let's start to separate out the reality from the hyperbole. Ann is a business person who through a variety of methods including FoH, donations, corporate deals etc put us in the healthiest financial state we've ever been in. She's then made an absolute shop front of spending it by allowing Craig Levien in particular to buy football players who are utter pony. 

 

Somehow she needs to let go of the football side to someone who knows how to run it, she has to accept their judgement. she can continue to generate money and let them spend it, lets be honest it's really quite easy to see if it's working, there's a league table to check weekly and a rather empty looking trophy cabinet to fill.


Great post.

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2 hours ago, Rudy T said:

 

See this is the type of hypothetical nonsense originally banded about by Hibs fans, now Hearts fans are using the same stuff to up their frustrations at Ann Budge. 

 

Look at the facts, she has generated along with FoH millions for the club, those millions have bought players on  large salaries, now had we bought the right players for that sort of wedge we'd be at the top end of the prem and this thread wouldn't exist. So let's start to separate out the reality from the hyperbole. Ann is a business person who through a variety of methods including FoH, donations, corporate deals etc put us in the healthiest financial state we've ever been in. She's then made an absolute shop front of spending it by allowing Craig Levien in particular to buy football players who are utter pony. 

 

Somehow she needs to let go of the football side to someone who knows how to run it, she has to accept their judgement. she can continue to generate money and let them spend it, lets be honest it's really quite easy to see if it's working, there's a league table to check weekly and a rather empty looking trophy cabinet to fill.

I don't need a lecture on how AB is a business woman and you shouldn't exaggerate your post with words like "hyperbole" & "hypothetical nonsense" when it's nothing of the sort. If you disagree : that's fine, it's all about opinions, that's what the board is for. 

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1 hour ago, NANOJAMBO said:

I don't need a lecture on how AB is a business woman and you shouldn't exaggerate your post with words like "hyperbole" & "hypothetical nonsense" when it's nothing of the sort. If you disagree : that's fine, it's all about opinions, that's what the board is for. 

 

I beg to differ, the doomsday sceanario you've outlined is hypothetical. When the reality is both parties, Budge and Anderson, have said there's more funding available in the future and/or when required.

 

If your going to have a go at the woman then there's a number of things she has or hasn't done that can be discussed and feel free to give your opinion.

 

My opinion for what it's worth is, after seeing Mercer, CPR/Deans and Romanov as owners I feel a lot more positive about the long term future of the club under Ann Budges stewardship. I'm bitterly disappointed that with the strength of the club off the pitch that we've been honking on it.

Edited by Rudy T
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2 hours ago, Rudy T said:

 

I think the one thing we can all agree on, if a role at the club concerns football Ann should instantly remove herself from the process until the signature is required on the contract.

 

Get JJ to pick he knows football, knows the club and the expectations of the fans. The last part of that is what AB seems to fail to grasp at times.

You have a plan👍

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The problem with AB is that she picks the wrong people. She needs to look at this board and choose from a multitude of successful entrepreneurs and brilliant football managers just waiting to be taken on -or at least ask for their advice before she makes big decisions.

Edited by JamboAl
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16 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

The problem with AB is that she picks the wrong people. She needs to look at this board and choose from a multitude of successful entrepreneurs and brilliant football managers just waiting to be taken on -or at least ask for their advice before she makes big decisions.

At least for your first sentence is correct

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Francis Albert
20 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Budge has just extended the club a 1m loan. We're profitable because of benefactors she brought on board. Why on earth would we risk losing that kind of support by changing ownership during a financial meltdown?

I am a bit puzzled by this. Why would we be risking that kind of support by transferring the shares? When the benefactors were benefacting and Ann provided another loan the transfer of ownership was expected in June this year. Yet the benefactors and Ann were not deterred.

Ann, her new Chief Exec and most of the rest of the board are about to be reappointed for three more years. at the AGM this month. There is zero chance of them being voted out in that period by an FOH revolt.

The only hypothetical case would be if Ann attempted to do what the whole point of FOH and fan ownership is designed to protect us against, the club being sold to someone the fans would oppose. Is that going to happen?

The club for better or worse will continue to be run by Ann for the foreseeable future. Why should benefactors be concerned as they have not been so far about the share transfer? The club will continue to be a community club doing all the socially good things it  does. Being owned by 8000 plus fans surely just reinforces its community club credentials and the reasons for the donations from benefactors.

Edited by Francis Albert
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37 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

 

The problem is that Ann doesn't like working with people she doesn't know/trust. Which isn't completely a bad thing in itself, but this way of working clearly doesn't work on the football side. You don't need to be a brilliant football manager or a successful entrepreneur to see that.

 

But you toddle along, pretend that things are fine all you want. Every messageboard needs a clown to laugh at and you fill that role quite well.

I’ve seen lot of people move organisations and bring their ‘team’ along with them for the same reasons. Sometimes it can work in the new environment but sometimes it doesn’t.  Ann didn’t have any football knowledge/skills in her previous businesses but she is not the first owner with that chsllenge which is why Dofs, or similar named roles, exist. The trick is getting the right one at the right time. 

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23 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I am a bit puzzled by this. Why would we be risking that kind of support by transferring the shares? When the benefactors were benefacting and Ann provided another loan the transfer of ownership was expected in June this year. Yet the benefactors and Ann were not deterred.

Ann, her new Chief Exec and most of the rest of the board are about to be reappointed for three more years. at the AGM this month. There is zero chance of them being voted out in that period by an FOH revolt.

The only hypothetical case would be if Ann attempted to do what the whole point of FOH and fan ownership is designed to protect us against, the club being sold to someone the fans would oppose. Is that going to happen?

The club for better or worse will continue to be run by Ann for the foreseeable future. Why should benefactors be concerned as they have not been so far about the share transfer? The club will continue to be a community club doing all the socially good things it  does. Being owned by 8000 plus fans surely just reinforces its community club credentials and the reasons for the donations from benefactors.

I thought AB was legally obliged to only sell/transfer to FoH.

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1 minute ago, Boris said:

I thought AB was legally obliged to only sell/transfer to FoH.

She is, as per the original agreement. 

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17 minutes ago, Boris said:

Cool. So any fear of her selling elsewhere is fantasy.

I believe it is, as long as FoH stick to the terms. 

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