Budge.

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, **** the SPFL said:

The bottom line here is that the players on the park are the ones to blame they lost us the game.

A manager who chose and set up the team surely has some responsibility. And whose response to losing to Alloa is to say we pummelled the opposition and "it was never a penalty"  ... 

[Hectormasson]

19 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

A manager who chose and set up the team surely has some responsibility. And whose response to losing to Alloa is to say we pummelled the opposition and "it was never a penalty"  ... 

It obviously got to him the result,   and rightly so ,    awful result and performance  !       Where does he go from here ?   Has he got the players to  start winning games  ? Or is it another shuffle around in January, , his signings so far havnt turned up"    let's hope they start playing for all our sakes !     

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

If you had the foresight to question queen ann 3 or 4 years ago there were hoardes on here apoplectic with rage spitting out accusations of being a hibs fan and other simplistic juvenile stuff

 

not the case now though

 

 

 

 

in fact some of these absolute roasters now want rid of queen ann too

 

 

 

 

 

[i8hibsh]

5 hours ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

If you had the foresight to question queen ann 3 or 4 years ago there were hoardes on here apoplectic with rage spitting out accusations of being a hibs fan and other simplistic juvenile stuff

 

not the case now though

 

 

 

 

in fact some of these absolute roasters now want rid of queen ann too

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Every negative comment towards Ann now, from what must be about 90% of our support who have finally smelt the coffee, are all comments I was saying 4 years ago.

 

I had Ann's number years ago, I seen what she was up to and how namby pamby she was making us. The only difference is that no one is sexist now for saying it.

[Gimme an H...]

I can understand some of the comments towards Ann and Robbie – they both have their faults. But for me it’s the players that deserve the flak here.

 

I don’t care who the manager is, what formation we play or what players he chose to start the match (which was a full strength team of those available/not injured btw). If they can’t go out and turn that amount of possession into at least one goal against a part time, bottom of the league team in Alloa they should be utterly ashamed of themselves. You can’t point the finger of lack of motivation from the manager at them, we had the ball at our feet for the vast majority of the game. It’s the daft little flicks when we should be holding it in, it’s the first time crosses that go straight out for a goal kick instead of taking a man on, it’s the shite first touches, it’s the inability to strike a ball properly that should embarrass them the most.

 

How can freekicks/corners not beat the first man? How can you be standing over the ball with no pressure (from opposition players) on you, looking at a box full of players – not strike the ball well enough to beat the very first man the ball heads towards? At professional football level – that is absolutely criminal. It happens that often at Hearts that it’s actually became one of the most frustrating things I find when watching us and that’s saying something. Maybe I’m expecting too much but a professional footballer being able to strike a ball properly – surely that’s the bare minimum.

 

Get the finger out FFS.

[upgotheheads]

I have been a supporter a long long time, longer than most posters on kickback have been alive I'm guessing. For all of that time Hearts have been pretty crap. Our current crapness is not the exception, unfortunately it's the rule. I started supporting Hearts (that is, going by myself after my dad stopped going) at the end of the glory years in the early sixties. I remember the mostly dire seventies and early eighties, the all too brief revival of the MacDonald/Jardine years, the false dawns of Mercer and Robinson, and the hilarious shambles of Mad Vlad. The first time I saw Hearts win anything was 98. My 13 and 11 year old sons had then seen Hearts win as many trophies as their near 50 year old Dad, in fact the years since then have been relatively successful when compared to the 40 years before.

 

The fact is Hearts have always underperformed in my opinion. I make this point to those who would kick out Ann Budge and think it would solve all our problems;  be careful what you wish for.

 

Here endeth the lesson.

Edited November 30, 2020 by upgotheheads

[upgotheheads]

1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Every negative comment towards Ann now, from what must be about 90% of our support who have finally smelt the coffee, are all comments I was saying 4 years ago.

 

I had Ann's number years ago, I seen what she was up to and how namby pamby she was making us. The only difference is that no one is sexist now for saying it.

 

So, did you phone her and she told you she was washing her hair that night? That might explain a few things.

[i8hibsh]

9 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

So, did you phone her and she told you she was washing her hair that night? That might explain a few things

 

It is still too sore to talk about

 

 

[leginten]

4 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

I have been a supporter a long long time, longer than most posters on kickback have been alive I'm guessing. For all of that time Hearts have been pretty crap. Our current crapness is not the exception, unfortunately it's the rule. I started supporting Hearts (that is, going by myself after my dad stopped going) at the end of the glory year in the early sixties. I remember the mostly dire seventies and early eighties, the all too brief revival of the MacDonald/Jardine years, the false dawns of Mercer and Robinson, and the hilarious shambles of Mad Vlad. The first time I saw Hearts win anything was 98. My 13 and 11 year old sons had then seen Hearts win as many trophies as their near 50 year old Dad, in fact the years since then have been relatively successful when compared to the 40 years before.

 

The fact is Hearts have always underperformed in my opinion. I make this point to those who would kick out Ann Budge and think it would solve all our problems;  be careful what you wish for.

 

Here endeth the lesson.

And that lesson, although I know you will not have intended it to, very often reeks of “know your place”. We’ve always underachieved, so don’t complain when we continue to do so.

 

That’s a problem for me. The new era was supposed to be about clean slates, fresh starts, financial security (which the support is now producing in spades) and the pursuit of excellence in all aspects of the club. We’re a relatively big fish in a very small pond, we are in a truly amazing, attractive city, we have a phenomenally dedicated support and we seem to fulfil all the preconditions for a club that could go places if everything clicked. And yet we’re currently miles short of even mediocrity in the thing we exist to do - playing football.

 

I’m not far short of you in years, I think. First match at Tynecastle in 1970. I’d like to see us get it right, finally. But I’d also like to see us be far less tolerant of the ongoing underachievement. Seems to me that Budge and Levein picked up the wrong message from somewhere over the last few years and assumed it was just fine to bumble on into the pretty calamitous position we now find ourselves in.

[kila]

19 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

I have been a supporter a long long time, longer than most posters on kickback have been alive I'm guessing. For all of that time Hearts have been pretty crap. Our current crapness is not the exception, unfortunately it's the rule. I started supporting Hearts (that is, going by myself after my dad stopped going) at the end of the glory years in the early sixties. I remember the mostly dire seventies and early eighties, the all too brief revival of the MacDonald/Jardine years, the false dawns of Mercer and Robinson, and the hilarious shambles of Mad Vlad. The first time I saw Hearts win anything was 98. My 13 and 11 year old sons had then seen Hearts win as many trophies as their near 50 year old Dad, in fact the years since then have been relatively successful when compared to the 40 years before.

 

The fact is Hearts have always underperformed in my opinion. I make this point to those who would kick out Ann Budge and think it would solve all our problems;  be careful what you wish for.

 

Here endeth the lesson.

 

What a defeatist attitude to have.

 

What has Ann Budge done for the football side that we need to be careful what we wish for?

 

[upgotheheads]

23 minutes ago, leginten said:

And that lesson, although I know you will not have intended it to, very often reeks of “know your place”. We’ve always underachieved, so don’t complain when we continue to do so.

 

That’s a problem for me. The new era was supposed to be about clean slates, fresh starts, financial security (which the support is now producing in spades) and the pursuit of excellence in all aspects of the club. We’re a relatively big fish in a very small pond, we are in a truly amazing, attractive city, we have a phenomenally dedicated support and we seem to fulfil all the preconditions for a club that could go places if everything clicked. And yet we’re currently miles short of even mediocrity in the thing we exist to do - playing football.

 

I’m not far short of you in years, I think. First match at Tynecastle in 1970. I’d like to see us get it right, finally. But I’d also like to see us be far less tolerant of the ongoing underachievement. Seems to me that Budge and Levein picked up the wrong message from somewhere over the last few years and assumed it was just fine to bumble on into the pretty calamitous position we now find ourselves in.

 

 

Fair comment, and the fans have responded magnificently as you say, but it was Ann budge that saved our club. Hearts have operated in a wonderful city all its years and we have underachieved for almost all of that time. The point I'm making is that if people think that getting rid of AB will automatically solve our problems then they're likely to be disappointed. 

 

This is going to be a really difficult season. The Championship is full of well coached highly motivated players. I was talking to a St Mirren supporting pal of mine yesterday (he's loving it, especially after Saturday) I said that we're like a team of Afghan Hounds playing in a league of Alsatians, Rottweilers and mongrels. RN knows  what's happening, it's now a case of the players getting the message.

20 minutes ago, kila said:

 

What a defeatist attitude to have.

 

What has Ann Budge done for the football side that we need to be careful what we wish for?

 

 

She's certainly made a mistake in giving CL so much power, but not having been involved in football, and given Levein's plausibility, it's understandable.

And it's only a few months that 90% of the fans were over the moon about Neilson's appointment, have all of those fans changed their minds already?

Edited November 30, 2020 by upgotheheads

[Nelly Terraces]

10 minutes ago, leginten said:

And that lesson, although I know you will not have intended it to, very often reeks of “know your place”. We’ve always underachieved, so don’t complain when we continue to do so.

 

That’s a problem for me. The new era was supposed to be about clean slates, fresh starts, financial security (which the support is now producing in spades) and the pursuit of excellence in all aspects of the club. We’re a relatively big fish in a very small pond, we are in a truly amazing, attractive city, we have a phenomenally dedicated support and we seem to fulfil all the preconditions for a club that could go places if everything clicked. And yet we’re currently miles short of even mediocrity in the thing we exist to do - playing football.

 

I’m not far short of you in years, I think. First match at Tynecastle in 1970. I’d like to see us get it right, finally. But I’d also like to see us be far less tolerant of the ongoing underachievement. Seems to me that Budge and Levein picked up the wrong message from somewhere over the last few years and assumed it was just fine to bumble on into the pretty calamitous position we now find ourselves in.

Completely agree with what you've said here mate. My 1st game was 1976. I've watched us get beaten by Forfar, East Stirling & Dumbarton at home all in the same season. I think I've pretty much seen it all.

 

And yet, never has there been a time when I've felt less engaged, less enthusiastic or hopeful about anything Hearts do than now.  We drift from one tedious & ultimately calamitous, unsuccessful, season to another & have done for almost 5 years now. Yes, this has happened before, but the major difference is then you sensed there was still the will to go out, try win matches & be succesful no matter how poor we were. I honestly don't feel that's the case now, that the entire ethos at Hearts is that mediocrity is a sufficient performance indicator, that other issues play far too a high priority than they should above the 1st team going out & trying to win. And this all allowed to take place when, as you say, the chance to achieve something much better is there for the taking for the reasons you outlined. It's a massive & almost negligent waste of an opportunity.

 

The argument 'we've always been crap so live with it' is just patronising & the sort of thinking that if we all followed it in life none of us would achieve anything. I'm sure Ann Budge of all people would agree with that.

[David Black]

7 minutes ago, Nelly Terraces said:

Completely agree with what you've said here mate. My 1st game was 1976. I've watched us get beaten by Forfar, East Stirling & Dumbarton at home all in the same season. I think I've pretty much seen it all.

 

And yet, never has there been a time when I've felt less engaged, less enthusiastic or hopeful about anything Hearts do than now.  We drift from one tedious & ultimately calamitous, unsuccessful, season to another & have done for almost 5 years now. Yes, this has happened before, but the major difference is then you sensed there was still the will to go out, try win matches & be succesful no matter how poor we were. I honestly don't feel that's the case now, that the entire ethos at Hearts is that mediocrity is a sufficient performance indicator, that other issues play far too a high priority than they should above the 1st team going out & trying to win. And this all allowed to take place when, as you say, the chance to achieve something much better is there for the taking for the reasons you outlined. It's a massive & almost negligent waste of an opportunity.

 

The argument 'we've always been crap so live with it' is just patronising & the sort of thinking that if we all followed it in life none of us would achieve anything. I'm sure Ann Budge of all people would agree with that.

Agree entirely. There are far to many who just accept mediocrity and the fact we have a club. That is the same mindset as those who support, Cowdenbeath,East Stirling and Albion Rovers. etc. There is no ambition to reach the next level, exactly the same as these clubs only at a higher starting point to begin with. 

[leginten]

27 minutes ago, Nelly Terraces said:

Completely agree with what you've said here mate. My 1st game was 1976. I've watched us get beaten by Forfar, East Stirling & Dumbarton at home all in the same season. I think I've pretty much seen it all.

 

And yet, never has there been a time when I've felt less engaged, less enthusiastic or hopeful about anything Hearts do than now.  We drift from one tedious & ultimately calamitous, unsuccessful, season to another & have done for almost 5 years now. Yes, this has happened before, but the major difference is then you sensed there was still the will to go out, try win matches & be succesful no matter how poor we were. I honestly don't feel that's the case now, that the entire ethos at Hearts is that mediocrity is a sufficient performance indicator, that other issues play far too a high priority than they should above the 1st team going out & trying to win. And this all allowed to take place when, as you say, the chance to achieve something much better is there for the taking for the reasons you outlined. It's a massive & almost negligent waste of an opportunity.

 

The argument 'we've always been crap so live with it' is just patronising & the sort of thinking that if we all followed it in life none of us would achieve anything. I'm sure Ann Budge of all people would agree with that.

Absolutely. Of course, the elephant in the room is the Old Firm, and for that reason no Hearts supporter expects us to win all our games, win the league consistently or anything like that. But the opportunity has been there since administration to achieve so much more, to really build something special. Unfortunately complacency set in very quickly at all levels of the club after the remarkable Championship season. I would argue it was already present before the end of that season, but I know others will disagree. As you say, there has been a disconnect between the club and the support at a time when fans have repeatedly gone the extra mile to ensure the future of the club, and that’s all wrong. (And I well remember your own efforts to dig the club out of a hole when we needed it most.)
 

 

[ford donald]

29 minutes ago, David Black said:

Agree entirely. There are far to many who just accept mediocrity and the fact we have a club. That is the same mindset as those who support, Cowdenbeath,East Stirling and Albion Rovers. etc. There is no ambition to reach the next level, exactly the same as these clubs only at a higher starting point to begin with. 

 As a football club,we have been under achieving for years,the supporters have been pouring money into the club freely,

The football on the park has been poor to say the least, it's time we were changing that,we want  vision and leadership

Top to bottom,not repeated excuses!

[Governor Tarkin]

14 minutes ago, leginten said:

Absolutely. Of course, the elephant in the room is the Old Firm, and for that reason no Hearts supporter expects us to win all our games, win the league consistently or anything like that. But the opportunity has been there since administration to achieve so much more, to really build something special. Unfortunately complacency set in very quickly at all levels of the club after the remarkable Championship season. I would argue it was already present before the end of that season, but I know others will disagree. As you say, there has been a disconnect between the club and the support at a time when fans have repeatedly gone the extra mile to ensure the future of the club, and that’s all wrong. (And I well remember your own efforts to dig the club out of a hole when we needed it most.)
 

 

 

You won't get any disagreement from me or most of the chaps I attend matches with. It was hard to put our fingers on but we all felt it. 

[leginten]

5 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

You won't get any disagreement from me or most of the chaps I attend matches with. It was hard to put our fingers on but we all felt it. 

For me, it was the derbies. Unfortunately if you mention this people accuse you of being obsessed with the derby to the exclusion of everything else, but it was the fixture in which we performed worst points-wise in that otherwise amazing season, and there were moments in and around derbies 3 and 4 which worried me and were the template for a lot of crap things that happened in subsequent seasons.

[bobskeldon]

2 hours ago, Gimme an H... said:

I can understand some of the comments towards Ann and Robbie – they both have their faults. But for me it’s the players that deserve the flak here.

 

I don’t care who the manager is, what formation we play or what players he chose to start the match (which was a full strength team of those available/not injured btw). If they can’t go out and turn that amount of possession into at least one goal against a part time, bottom of the league team in Alloa they should be utterly ashamed of themselves. You can’t point the finger of lack of motivation from the manager at them, we had the ball at our feet for the vast majority of the game. It’s the daft little flicks when we should be holding it in, it’s the first time crosses that go straight out for a goal kick instead of taking a man on, it’s the shite first touches, it’s the inability to strike a ball properly that should embarrass them the most.

 

How can freekicks/corners not beat the first man? How can you be standing over the ball with no pressure (from opposition players) on you, looking at a box full of players – not strike the ball well enough to beat the very first man the ball heads towards? At professional football level – that is absolutely criminal. It happens that often at Hearts that it’s actually became one of the most frustrating things I find when watching us and that’s saying something. Maybe I’m expecting too much but a professional footballer being able to strike a ball properly – surely that’s the bare minimum.

 

Get the finger out FFS.

Spot On!

[SectionDJambo]

I too have been an active, going to Hearts matches, supporter since the 60s. Through those years, we have seen mostly failure, with the odd spell of promise and 3 trophies that I’d long since expected never to see. 
Along the way, I can’t remember us being particularly happy with the spells of real hopelessness and disappointing results. Hearts fans have never been slow to show displeasure at our team and management over my years. 
I heard the stories of the golden era, and also of the many great players who played for our club, without any trophy winning, for the many years up to the 1954 League Cup win. I saw the disbelief of older fans when we managed to get relegated for the first time. 
So, being happy with poor performance and disappointment has never been an option, but there has usually been a connection between the fans and players, which usually resulted in both giving their all for the club from the terraces and on the pitch. That feeling of a connection is probably at the lowest I can remember, not helped by the stretch of time we haven’t been able to get to games, but it was probably completely burst after the terrible effort at Paisley in March.

Hearts have to repair that connection, from top to bottom, with the fans. The best way to do that is show real hunger and desire in every game from now on, and to not give us weak excuses for embarrassing results like Alloa. Real, tangible respect has to be given to the Hearts fans.

To provide the leadership to repair that connection is Ann Budge’s biggest challenge.

[sadj]

2 hours ago, leginten said:

And that lesson, although I know you will not have intended it to, very often reeks of “know your place”. We’ve always underachieved, so don’t complain when we continue to do so.

 

That’s a problem for me. The new era was supposed to be about clean slates, fresh starts, financial security (which the support is now producing in spades) and the pursuit of excellence in all aspects of the club. We’re a relatively big fish in a very small pond, we are in a truly amazing, attractive city, we have a phenomenally dedicated support and we seem to fulfil all the preconditions for a club that could go places if everything clicked. And yet we’re currently miles short of even mediocrity in the thing we exist to do - playing football.

 

I’m not far short of you in years, I think. First match at Tynecastle in 1970. I’d like to see us get it right, finally. But I’d also like to see us be far less tolerant of the ongoing underachievement. Seems to me that Budge and Levein picked up the wrong message from somewhere over the last few years and assumed it was just fine to bumble on into the pretty calamitous position we now find ourselves in.

I like this post. I just think often its like watching apes smash a keyboard the crap on here. Youve read the posters message and actually taken it in and maybe made it more eloquent for those posters above. I agree we should never settle for mediocrity. I was lucky to first be going to games in the mid 80s but even then Iv seen a lot of dross in the 35 years since. We have of course had a modicum of success throughout that time between Scottish Cups , European trips , big clubs visiting Tynecastle and I think that has helped raise the level of expectation supporters now have. Problem is that for now we are fighting with Aberdeen and Hibs for players on similar wages and budgets. Until we can re-establish ourselves properly this will continue. I dont know how much its a case of settling from Levein and Budge and how much its trust the process for the end goal. Weve ripped things up twice in 6 years and that may well play a part in Ann Budge’s decision to bring back Robbie to change things around and hope that the first way was the correct way. Within that you have to say Ann is first and foremost a business woman. She has absolutely got things going correctly off the park with turnover , building the new stand , laying a new pitch and building working relationships. That needs as I said earlier on here to transfer to the pitch and as it hasnt frustrations have grown. Its crazy we are faffing around week to week but weve had two SC finals in a row weve had two of our biggest ever wins over the OF and weve constantly scudded Hibs. The consistency , desire and intensity is not there week to week and that is in my opinion the biggest problem just now. The players we have are more than capable

of holding there own in the top league. Alloa is what it is. The Dunfermline game second half was awful until 2-0 down yet we still probably could have won that on the chances we wasted. Could have is not good enough for any of us though.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Is this turning into an uber Hearts fan pissing competition or the four Yorkshiremen Monty Python sketch? 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Seymour M Hersh

[NANOJAMBO]

43 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

I too have been an active, going to Hearts matches, supporter since the 60s. Through those years, we have seen mostly failure, with the odd spell of promise and 3 trophies that I’d long since expected never to see. 
Along the way, I can’t remember us being particularly happy with the spells of real hopelessness and disappointing results. Hearts fans have never been slow to show displeasure at our team and management over my years. 
I heard the stories of the golden era, and also of the many great players who played for our club, without any trophy winning, for the many years up to the 1954 League Cup win. I saw the disbelief of older fans when we managed to get relegated for the first time. 
So, being happy with poor performance and disappointment has never been an option, but there has usually been a connection between the fans and players, which usually resulted in both giving their all for the club from the terraces and on the pitch. That feeling of a connection is probably at the lowest I can remember, not helped by the stretch of time we haven’t been able to get to games, but it was probably completely burst after the terrible effort at Paisley in March.

Hearts have to repair that connection, from top to bottom, with the fans. The best way to do that is show real hunger and desire in every game from now on, and to not give us weak excuses for embarrassing results like Alloa. Real, tangible respect has to be given to the Hearts fans.

To provide the leadership to repair that connection is Ann Budge’s biggest challenge.

We seem to be about the same age and have the same view/experiences of the club and a lot of what you same resonates with me.

What makes me angry about the last 5 years is that the club is as bad now as it was in the dire days of the 70s except that unlike then we have an owner who is doing big things for the club (as a BUSINESS) , the club is in great health financially and the fans have remained absolutely loyal and financially supportive.

And yet we have an owner who (it seems to me) is quite happy to say publicly " I know nothing about football" and then put it all in the hands of a charlatan who says publicly "it wasn't me that done it" and actually hangs an ex manager out to dry (having appointed him) and then does so again in the media this very week . At risk of repeating what has been said on here so often  in recent years : I just can't understand what AB and the board were thinking last year when the season ended. 

I've genuinely never felt so detached from it all and so emotionally uninvolved : another defeat, another dire performance, another bunch of terrible signings   , so what ? Another one will be along next week. 

 

AB needs to reach out to the fans to "win hearts & minds " (bad pun, not intended) and make it clear lessons have been learned , failure will not be tolerated because right now it sure doesn't look that way on the pitch. 

[Riccarton3]

6 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Every negative comment towards Ann now, from what must be about 90% of our support who have finally smelt the coffee, are all comments I was saying 4 years ago.

 

I had Ann's number years ago, I seen what she was up to and how namby pamby she was making us. The only difference is that no one is sexist now for saying it.

To be fair, some of the namby pamby stuff was about eradicating sectarian filth. Not all but some. Credit where due, eh?

[Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine]

4 hours ago, kila said:

 

What a defeatist attitude to have.

 

What has Ann Budge done for the football side that we need to be careful what we wish for?

 

 

How many owners of football teams make a positive impact on the football side?

[SectionDJambo]

1 hour ago, NANOJAMBO said:

We seem to be about the same age and have the same view/experiences of the club and a lot of what you same resonates with me.

What makes me angry about the last 5 years is that the club is as bad now as it was in the dire days of the 70s except that unlike then we have an owner who is doing big things for the club (as a BUSINESS) , the club is in great health financially and the fans have remained absolutely loyal and financially supportive.

And yet we have an owner who (it seems to me) is quite happy to say publicly " I know nothing about football" and then put it all in the hands of a charlatan who says publicly "it wasn't me that done it" and actually hangs an ex manager out to dry (having appointed him) and then does so again in the media this very week . At risk of repeating what has been said on here so often  in recent years : I just can't understand what AB and the board were thinking last year when the season ended. 

I've genuinely never felt so detached from it all and so emotionally uninvolved : another defeat, another dire performance, another bunch of terrible signings   , so what ? Another one will be along next week. 

 

AB needs to reach out to the fans to "win hearts & minds " (bad pun, not intended) and make it clear lessons have been learned , failure will not be tolerated because right now it sure doesn't look that way on the pitch. 

Your last paragraph is a must for Ann Budge, if she is to eventually leave her position at Hearts and be fondly thought of, in the future, by Hearts fans.

By what she did during the administration, that should already be a given, but she has allowed others to advise bad decisions, through her self confessed lack of football knowledge. Hopefully, JJ is the man to give her good advice, with the ambition of the club to do well on the pitch to the forefront of all thought.

I don't think that most Hearts fans have an unrealistic sense of entitlement. We just don't think that a Hearts team should, fairly regularly, struggle to beat smaller clubs in a football match.

[i8hibsh]

14 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

To be fair, some of the namby pamby stuff was about eradicating sectarian filth. Not all but some. Credit where due, eh?

 

 

Not when it seemed to be her making the rules on what is offensive and what is not.

 

Not when she set up a clipe line to report bad behaviour and with no right to reply that was it....guily.

[leginten]

5 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Your last paragraph is a must for Ann Budge, if she is to eventually leave her position at Hearts and be fondly thought of, in the future, by Hearts fans.

By what she did during the administration, that should already be a given, but she has allowed others to advise bad decisions, through her self confessed lack of football knowledge. Hopefully, JJ is the man to give her good advice, with the ambition of the club to do well on the pitch to the forefront of all thought.

I don't think that most Hearts fans have an unrealistic sense of entitlement. We just don't think that a Hearts team should, fairly regularly, struggle to beat smaller clubs in a football match.

I don’t either. But unfortunately the word “entitlement” has been consistently aimed at those who have recognised that we haven’t been nearly good enough for many years now. Quite why, I’ve no idea. As if the expectation that we might occasionally beat the Hamiltons, St. Mirrens and St. Johnstones of this world was outrageous and to persist with it was to veer dangerously away from the sunlit uplands message the club was pushing.

 

In one of last season’s more unintentionally comic threads, Austin MacPhee’s lofty assertion - from his position as temporary failure-in-chief - that we should be striving for regular Europa League participation was met with much approval and enthusiasm, not least from many who had been screaming “entitlement” at other posters for years. Difficult to see how any kind of European qualification can be achieved without the clear expectation that we win a lot more points than we lose, but hey-ho - whatever keeps people on message, I suppose.

[Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine]

1 minute ago, weehammy said:

A fair question. But the problem with the Budge regime is that any impact at all appears to be negative. Supporters who have dipped into their wallets pretty continuously since administration had every right to assume that her 5 year plan wouldn’t lead to relegation and defeat by Alloa for the first time in over a century.

 

 

100% mate, but I think its important to state that her 5 year plan didn't lead to where we are now. The principles behind that plan (develop young players in the first team and sign high-character players with sell-on potential) were abandoned as soon as we were promoted, and the blame for that change, for me, lies much more with Levein than it does with her. The short-sightedness of the football decisions just smacked of him not wanting to lose his job, rather than as part of a well thought out strategy. Again, Budge not blameless in the slightest but the actual 'football people' are the ones who should be getting the blame.

[Diadora Van Basten]

The problem is we keep signing poor players often paying them more than they deserve.

 

Ann Budge runs the club in a manner that we can afford to give the manager funds to improve the team however it’s the managers who keep on signing poor players that is the problem. 

[Boris]

13 minutes ago, leginten said:

I don’t either. But unfortunately the word “entitlement” has been consistently aimed at those who have recognised that we haven’t been nearly good enough for many years now. Quite why, I’ve no idea. As if the expectation that we might occasionally beat the Hamiltons, St. Mirrens and St. Johnstones of this world was outrageous and to persist with it was to veer dangerously away from the sunlit uplands message the club was pushing.

 

In one of last season’s more unintentionally comic threads, Austin MacPhee’s lofty assertion - from his position as temporary failure-in-chief - that we should be striving for regular Europa League participation was met with much approval and enthusiasm, not least from many who had been screaming “entitlement” at other posters for years. Difficult to see how any kind of European qualification can be achieved without the clear expectation that we win a lot more points than we lose, but hey-ho - whatever keeps people on message, I suppose.

 

Agree - big difference between entitlement and expectation.

[leginten]

3 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Agree - big difference between entitlement and expectation.

Thank you. You’ve said in six words what it took me two paragraphs of waffle to arrive at.

[Boris]

Just now, leginten said:

Thank you. You’ve said in six words what it took me two paragraphs of waffle to arrive at.

 

Nah, you set the scene!

[Colonel Kurtz]

Anne Budges Hearts remind me of the tories during the pandemic confusingly  tendered contracts and cronyism.

Who is our Dido Harding

[Nelly Terraces]

25 minutes ago, leginten said:

Thank you. You’ve said in six words what it took me two paragraphs of waffle to arrive at.

Haha, tt was very good 'waffle' mate, don't put yourself down. You've made some excellent points on this thread, and I, and I can assure you, 95% of the guys I know who are long suffering yet, ridiculously, (some may say, stupidly - though aren't we all!), loyal Hearts supporters agree with your opinion. 

 

Thanks for your comments on my own small effort to help the club in it's our of need, it was no more than a lot of others did & I also got to connect & meet with some  really great genuine fans so in a way it was a pleasure really.

[Beni]

39 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

Anne Budges Hearts remind me of the tories during the pandemic confusingly  tendered contracts and cronyism.

Who is our Dido Harding

 

Someone who accumulated several well paid positions simultaneously, but did a poor job in all of them?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by fancy a brew

[bajthejambo]

Sorry, I refuse to accept Hearts playing in the Championship while having one of the biggest budgets outside the OF as anything other than underachievement and failure.

 

The fact we've been poor is the past is no justification whatsoever. 

 

I think the attitude of merely accepting whatever comes our way is pretty much Ann Budge's view of supporters and why she is rightly criticised.

[leginten]

32 minutes ago, Nelly Terraces said:

 

Thanks for your comments on my own small effort to help the club in it's our of need, it was no more than a lot of others did & I also got to connect & meet with some  really great genuine fans so in a way it was a pleasure really.

There are PHM, and then there are PHM. Your artefact still has pride of place in my son’s room. A magnificent piece of work and contribution to our survival.

[sadj]

39 minutes ago, Nelly Terraces said:

Haha, tt was very good 'waffle' mate, don't put yourself down. You've made some excellent points on this thread, and I, and I can assure you, 95% of the guys I know who are long suffering yet, ridiculously, (some may say, stupidly - though aren't we all!), loyal Hearts supporters agree with your opinion. 

 

Thanks for your comments on my own small effort to help the club in it's our of need, it was no more than a lot of others did & I also got to connect & meet with some  really great genuine fans so in a way it was a pleasure really.

I don’t recall meeting you Nelly 🤔🤣

[sadj]

5 minutes ago, bajthejambo said:

Sorry, I refuse to accept Hearts playing in the Championship while having one of the biggest budgets outside the OF as anything other than underachievement and failure.

 

The fact we've been poor is the past is no justification whatsoever. 

 

I think the attitude of merely accepting whatever comes our way is pretty much Ann Budge's view of supporters and why she is rightly criticised.

I don’t think anyone is saying what is happening is not massively underachieving , read leginten’s post he pretty much nails it

[kila]

1 hour ago, Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine said:

 

100% mate, but I think its important to state that her 5 year plan didn't lead to where we are now. The principles behind that plan (develop young players in the first team and sign high-character players with sell-on potential) were abandoned as soon as we were promoted, and the blame for that change, for me, lies much more with Levein than it does with her. The short-sightedness of the football decisions just smacked of him not wanting to lose his job, rather than as part of a well thought out strategy. Again, Budge not blameless in the slightest but the actual 'football people' are the ones who should be getting the blame.

 

Levein left in May and we're in this mess losing to Alloa in November.

 

She hasn't replaced Levein. JJ is advising the board but that's not the same. So the football side is solely with her now. She made the choice to get Robbie and pull the plug on Stendel. She also made the choice to give Lewis Moore a new deal as it was before Robbie arrived and Stendel was hardly going to be dishing out contracts at that moment of time.

 

[Pasquale for King]

13 hours ago, SectionDJambo said:

I too have been an active, going to Hearts matches, supporter since the 60s. Through those years, we have seen mostly failure, with the odd spell of promise and 3 trophies that I’d long since expected never to see. 
Along the way, I can’t remember us being particularly happy with the spells of real hopelessness and disappointing results. Hearts fans have never been slow to show displeasure at our team and management over my years. 
I heard the stories of the golden era, and also of the many great players who played for our club, without any trophy winning, for the many years up to the 1954 League Cup win. I saw the disbelief of older fans when we managed to get relegated for the first time. 
So, being happy with poor performance and disappointment has never been an option, but there has usually been a connection between the fans and players, which usually resulted in both giving their all for the club from the terraces and on the pitch. That feeling of a connection is probably at the lowest I can remember, not helped by the stretch of time we haven’t been able to get to games, but it was probably completely burst after the terrible effort at Paisley in March.

Hearts have to repair that connection, from top to bottom, with the fans. The best way to do that is show real hunger and desire in every game from now on, and to not give us weak excuses for embarrassing results like Alloa. Real, tangible respect has to be given to the Hearts fans.

To provide the leadership to repair that connection is Ann Budge’s biggest challenge.

Great post, they missed a chance to do this with the Only Hearts ethos which went out the window when they loaned Zlamal to St Mirren of all teams. 

[Pasquale for King]

10 hours ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

Anne Budges Hearts remind me of the tories during the pandemic confusingly  tendered contracts and cronyism.

Who is our Dido Harding

As much I hate them and her its more of a Priti Patel we need. 

[RussAsia]

On 30/11/2020 at 01:48, Francis Albert said:

She has already had her money back! With a miserable 6% pa interest.

It was quoted at the beginning at 10%. Still in these times can you show me another place where you can get between 6-10% pa of interest?

[davemclaren]

11 minutes ago, RussAsia said:

It was quoted at the beginning at 10%. Still in these times can you show me another place where you can get between 6-10% pa of interest?

it’s fairer to compare against what other lenders would have charged at the time for a secured loan for a business coming out of administration. 
 

It was set over 6 years ago and was only on the original sum.  Not sure what rates are charged on subsequent loans though that may be in the accounts somewhere.  
 

[Nookie Bear]

On 30/11/2020 at 09:15, leginten said:

And that lesson, although I know you will not have intended it to, very often reeks of “know your place”. We’ve always underachieved, so don’t complain when we continue to do so.

 

That’s a problem for me. The new era was supposed to be about clean slates, fresh starts, financial security (which the support is now producing in spades) and the pursuit of excellence in all aspects of the club. We’re a relatively big fish in a very small pond, we are in a truly amazing, attractive city, we have a phenomenally dedicated support and we seem to fulfil all the preconditions for a club that could go places if everything clicked. And yet we’re currently miles short of even mediocrity in the thing we exist to do - playing football.

 

I’m not far short of you in years, I think. First match at Tynecastle in 1970. I’d like to see us get it right, finally. But I’d also like to see us be far less tolerant of the ongoing underachievement. Seems to me that Budge and Levein picked up the wrong message from somewhere over the last few years and assumed it was just fine to bumble on into the pretty calamitous position we now find ourselves in.

 

And we had that, right up to the moment Neilson walked out to join MK Dons.

 

At that point we were perfectly placed to appoint a manager of standing, someone who could push us on to that next level. Unfortunately Budge and our DoF did not want such a strong character around the place so we opted for the work experience kid instead.

 

Robbie leaving was a great opportunity but weak leadership from the very top failed to capitalise.

 

We are playing in the Championship with a squad being paid SPL wages. Utter failure.

[RussAsia]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

 

And we had that, right up to the moment Neilson walked out to join MK Dons.

 

At that point we were perfectly placed to appoint a manager of standing, someone who could push us on to that next level. Unfortunately Budge and our DoF did not want such a strong character around the place so we opted for the work experience kid instead.

 

Robbie leaving was a great opportunity but weak leadership from the very top failed to capitalise.

 

We are playing in the Championship with a squad being paid SPL wages. Utter failure.

 

Utter nonsense.. Our football was boring, our players going through the motions.

Put out by a lower league Hibs team in the cup despite being given 2 chances at it, knocked out by a bunch of part timers in Europe. 

 

Apparently that is all been whitewashed in the eyes of some.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

4 minutes ago, RussAsia said:

 

Utter nonsense.. Our football was boring, our players going through the motions.

Put out by a lower league Hibs team in the cup despite being given 2 chances at it, knocked out by a bunch of part timers in Europe. 

 

Apparently that is all been whitewashed in the eyes of some.

The initial Neilson period was weird. We were in a decent league position but let’s be honest, lots of us were bored of him and his football.

 

Like Nookie says, him leaving wasn’t the problem. But just about every football decision since then has been wrong, made worse by a shocking recruitment department (something Budge has never, ever addressed)

[Nookie Bear]

12 minutes ago, RussAsia said:

 

Utter nonsense.. Our football was boring, our players going through the motions.

Put out by a lower league Hibs team in the cup despite being given 2 chances at it, knocked out by a bunch of part timers in Europe. 

 

Apparently that is all been whitewashed in the eyes of some.

Not disagreeing but we were high up in the league, fans were (and are) ploughing money in, and was a good time for us to take that next step. 

[leginten]

2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

The initial Neilson period was weird. We were in a decent league position but let’s be honest, lots of us were bored of him and his football.

 

Like Nookie says, him leaving wasn’t the problem. But just about every football decision since then has been wrong, made worse by a shocking recruitment department (something Budge has never, ever addressed)

I said on another thread that there were precisely three matches in the calendar year he left us that made me glad I’d left the house - two of them were in successive weeks back in the January (and were immediately followed by the Worst Piece of Game Management in Football History, which killed the rest of that season stone dead), and the third didn’t come until November, when the players actually turned up against Rangers to give him a decent send-off. 
 

Nookie is right about the succession. There was nobody in house they wanted to appoint, so they chose somebody young and inexperienced who would benefit from the DoF’s excellent mentoring.

[Hashimoto]

29 minutes ago, RussAsia said:

 

Utter nonsense.. Our football was boring, our players going through the motions.

Put out by a lower league Hibs team in the cup despite being given 2 chances at it, knocked out by a bunch of part timers in Europe. 

 

Apparently that is all been whitewashed in the eyes of some.

 

Correct!

And again it raises the question of why rush to bring Neilson back? The opportunity was there to have had a complete change of direction from previous. It was a chance to take a fresh, new approach especially with Levein being off the scene!

As long as Budge goes on making this type of "safe" appointment be prepared to accept this bland, one dimensional style of football. I for one am not optimistic for any change in direction any time soon.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Hashimoto