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Martin_T

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Smith's right boot
10 minutes ago, buzzbomb said:

Youngsters need to play. Motherwells youth teams are no better than Hearts and the players within it. The difference is though they have a path to play first team football, are allowed to make their mistakes and continue to play. Our fans would want them hunted after a few mistakes and the manager and the scouts/coaches etc. 

 

Yip, mentioned that before. 

 

The argument is should we concentrate on scouting these teams more aggressively and put less into the youth set up. 

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9 minutes ago, buzzbomb said:

Youngsters need to play. Motherwells youth teams are no better than Hearts and the players within it. The difference is though they have a path to play first team football, are allowed to make their mistakes and continue to play. Our fans would want them hunted after a few mistakes and the manager and the scouts/coaches etc. 

Re the point about the impatience of some of our supporters being a barrier to fielding young players, surely this is the perfect time to do it i.e. no supporters in the stadium to shout at them. We also have some older heads to bring on the young ones e.g. Gordon, Naismith, Boyce, Smith, Berra. This is how Alex McDonald and Jim Jefferies built successful teams.

 

As things stand, the likes of Frear and Roberts do not look like an upgrade on Henderson, Moore or the departed Morrison and McDonald. There is an issue not only with the Academy graduates but the players we bring in from outside.

 

If the current squad succeed in getting us promoted, these are still issues that have to be addressed.

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5 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Yip, mentioned that before. 

 

The argument is should we concentrate on scouting these teams more aggressively and put less into the youth set up. 

There is no reason we can’t have our youth set up and scout other academies to supplement it. But, it comes down to are we as a club committed to playing young players and are our fans prepared to accept what that brings.

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Just now, Pilmuir said:

Re the point about the impatience of some of our supporters being a barrier to fielding young players, surely this is the perfect time to do it i.e. no supporters in the stadium to shout at them. We also have some older heads to bring on the young ones e.g. Gordon, Naismith, Boyce, Smith, Berra. This is how Alex McDonald and Jim Jefferies built successful teams.

 

As things stand, the likes of Frear and Roberts do not look like an upgrade on Henderson, Moore or the departed Morrison and McDonald. There is an issue not only with the Academy graduates but the players we bring in from outside.

 

If the current squad succeed in getting us promoted, these are still issues that have to be addressed.

The point re Alex MacDonald team is spot on. What I’d like to see is a spine of real quality Craig Gordon as keeper is fine, I don’t think we have that quality or near at CB or up front. Haring fine in CM and then younger players around them. Dunfermline basically had a version of that the other night. As an aside, if we’re looking for a back up/impact striker ive always liked mcmanus for Dunfermline. Maybe not a first starter, but good backup and impact from the bench in my opinion.

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Footballfirst
13 minutes ago, buzzbomb said:

The point re Alex MacDonald team is spot on. What I’d like to see is a spine of real quality Craig Gordon as keeper is fine, I don’t think we have that quality or near at CB or up front. Haring fine in CM and then younger players around them. Dunfermline basically had a version of that the other night. As an aside, if we’re looking for a back up/impact striker ive always liked mcmanus for Dunfermline. Maybe not a first starter, but good backup and impact from the bench in my opinion.

When I watched a lot of U19/U20 games over the last few years, there were always individuals in the opposition line ups that impressed me. Declan McManus (at Aberdeen) and Dom Thomas (at Motherwell), both now at Dunfermline were prime examples. Thomas Reilly (at St Mirren), now at Kelty was another.  One wonders why they didn't make it at their first clubs and were released. 

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1 minute ago, Footballfirst said:

When I watched a lot of U19/U20 games over the last few years, there were always individuals in the opposition line ups that impressed me. Declan McManus (at Aberdeen) and Dom Thomas (at Motherwell), both now at Dunfermline were two prime examples. Thomas Reilly (at St Mirren), now at Kelty was another.  One wonders why they didn't make it at their first clubs and were released. 

Yeah I liked Thomas before as well. He can actually beat his man. As I say I’d have taken mcmanus as backup striker for us. 

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On 21/11/2020 at 14:01, Nookie Bear said:

Genuinely believe we should ditch the academy and concentrate on snapping up 17-19 year olds with promise who can join as squad players with a view to breaking through to the first XI. 


can understand this. I’ve seen enough kids come out of pro youth who have not stood out when they’ve gone to a Community Club, maybe that’s why they were let go 🙂 Should be looking to pick kids up at 16/17 for U18/development squad 

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3 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

When I watched a lot of U19/U20 games over the last few years, there were always individuals in the opposition line ups that impressed me. Declan McManus (at Aberdeen) and Dom Thomas (at Motherwell), both now at Dunfermline were prime examples. Thomas Reilly (at St Mirren), now at Kelty was another.  One wonders why they didn't make it at their first clubs and were released. 

 

When my lad (1995) played pro-youth at various senior academies the players that I considered to be special talent were Craig Sibbald at Falkirk (now at Livingston), Lewis Vaughan at Raith Rovers and Cammy Smith at Aberdeen (now at Ayr Utd).  Of the 1995 intake, there is no standout player who currently shines.

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Footballfirst
27 minutes ago, Tasavallan said:

 

When my lad (1995) played pro-youth at various senior academies the players that I considered to be special talent were Craig Sibbald at Falkirk (now at Livingston), Lewis Vaughan at Raith Rovers and Cammy Smith at Aberdeen (now at Ayr Utd).  Of the 1995 intake, there is no standout player who currently shines.

The '95s at Hearts who played SPFL football included Sam Nicholson, Gary Oliver, Robbie Buchanan, Adam King and Jason Cummings

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 'The boys know when they are allowed to train with us they have the quality to do so, we don't give tickets for training, you have to qualify with talent and aptitude. It is a tough school, there a lot of steps to go.'

 

That from Jurgen Klopp and I hope that is the attitude we use with our youngsters

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11 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

 'The boys know when they are allowed to train with us they have the quality to do so, we don't give tickets for training, you have to qualify with talent and aptitude. It is a tough school, there a lot of steps to go.'

 

That from Jurgen Klopp and I hope that is the attitude we use with our youngsters

 

Any youngster that's good enough to play for Hearts needs to hit the ground running. 

We shouldn't be lowering standards or dropping off to accommodate youngsters. If they are good enough they'll play. Clearly our Academy hasn't produced. 

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It seems there's always a "valid" excuse for not playing youngsters -

 

"We need experience to get us promoted this season"

"We're in a relegation dogfight... we need experience to get us out of it"

"We're aiming for a European place, so we need players with experience of doing that elsewhere."

 

So the only way we could implement a strategy of regularly having (say) 5 or more academy graduates in our squad is to accept the  inconsistencies  that comes with it - which isn't really any worse than the consequences we've suffered over the last 3 years when we've brought in  loads of  experienced players every window (at the expense of developing/testing our youngsters.       

 

As I alluded to on another thread, there seems to be  something "odd" about what our players are being taught to do.    It's been going on for a few years under  Levein and Cathro  - not sure that Robbie is any different in that respect, sadly.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

It seems there's always a "valid" excuse for not playing youngsters -

 

"We need experience to get us promoted this season"

"We're in a relegation dogfight... we need experience to get us out of it"

"We're aiming for a European place, so we need players with experience of doing that elsewhere."

 

So the only way we could implement a strategy of regularly having (say) 5 or more academy graduates in our squad is to accept the  inconsistencies  that comes with it - which isn't really any worse than the consequences we've suffered over the last 3 years when we've brought in  loads of  experienced players every window (at the expense of developing/testing our youngsters.       

 

As I alluded to on another thread, there seems to be  something "odd" about what our players are being taught to do.    It's been going on for a few years under  Levein and Cathro  - not sure that Robbie is any different in that respect, sadly.

 

 

Physically they're too lightweight. Irvine is the exception. 

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On 21/11/2020 at 13:10, vegas-voss said:

Dunfermline had a young laddie in midfield last night that played far better than any of our players was full of energy and drive and he wasn't even Dunfermline's best player.

 

Probably Kerr McInroy- he's a Celtic player

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On 21/11/2020 at 10:39, Leveins Battalion said:

Our academy or youth yet up is like every club in the world,some times we produce players sometimes we dont.

 

Man Utd arguably have not produced since the class of 92.

 

However sooner or later we will have to throw some in as the standard of guys like Frear is just not good enough.

 

Bizarrely our last group of players came from the burning embers of the Romanov era.

 

 

Not true actually ...... Fletcher, Cleverly, Evans, Lingard, McTominay, Rashford, Greenwood.   They're spread over the last 15 years admittedly - so not as high a number as the Giggs/Beckham era.     But the fad for importing foreign players has been greater during recent times than it was in the early 90s.  Fergie would probably admit that the 92 class was an exception to the general output  anyway.

 

You're right though about our last academy batch being born out of necessity as the Romanov empire burned.

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9 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Physically they're too lightweight. Irvine is the exception. 

See... that's another favourite excuse.    Admittedly some youngsters won't bulk up enough (like Cochrane) to be able to handle the physical side of the game, but it's up to the the Academy manager to organise a suitable pathway through the age groups to keep the best young players developing and testing themselves against growing opponents.   Yes, maybe most will fall by the wayside before getting to first team standard, but the ones who last the course need to be given the opportunities to test  themselves at first team level before they're 21.   Use the Diddy Cup and friendlies. As others have said, we seem to discard  a fair number who then go on to play at Champ or lower Prem level for other clubs, while we spend millions just to match that.

 

BTW, who is this Irvine chappie ?  😉

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1 hour ago, Lone Striker said:

It seems there's always a "valid" excuse for not playing youngsters -

 

"We need experience to get us promoted this season"

"We're in a relegation dogfight... we need experience to get us out of it"

"We're aiming for a European place, so we need players with experience of doing that elsewhere."

 

So the only way we could implement a strategy of regularly having (say) 5 or more academy graduates in our squad is to accept the  inconsistencies  that comes with it - which isn't really any worse than the consequences we've suffered over the last 3 years when we've brought in  loads of  experienced players every window (at the expense of developing/testing our youngsters.       

 

As I alluded to on another thread, there seems to be  something "odd" about what our players are being taught to do.    It's been going on for a few years under  Levein and Cathro  - not sure that Robbie is any different in that respect, sadly.

 

 

The time for that has long since been and gone. Lowering our standards or expectations to accommodate young players is entirely the wrong approach. 

 

If lads from the Academy can't hit the ground running after promotion to the first team, they're not good enough to play for Hearts. Every decent player we've ever produced has managed that. 

We need to have a far more savage and elitist approach to youth development with a much quicker turnover. 

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Do we really encouarage our young academy sides?  Do they get write-ups in match programmes or on the official website?  I read on here recently of a youngster who scored a couple of goals on the space of 5 minutes against Rangers.  Who is he?

 

I'd love to go on the website and read reports of these players and teams.  I'd love to see a section dedicated to the womens team.

 

It seems though, that these players and teams are anonymous.

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Our academy is a disappointment and has been for a long time, it is hard to say if natural ability is being curbed by keep-ball negative coaching to ready them for bootroom progression to the first team or if recruitment and the spotting of potential is not up to scratch or a combination of both. The idea seems to be that players can be manufactured, but that will not produce good quality. I am old school but to me football should be learned with a ball on a playing field not on a board or laptop, nor fitness achieved in a gym. Teams with inferior facilities to ours seem to produce a better product. 

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Hamilton have a far smaller and yet far more effective academy than ours and yet many of their kids have helped them dodge the relegation bullet in last few years. Our academy continues to underperform and legitimate questions need to be asked about the current structure and standard of initial recruitment and subsequent coaching the boys receive.

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On 21/11/2020 at 10:47, ford donald said:

You are spot on with your comments,been troubling me for a while,is it the scouting system the coaching system? needs sorted?

I feel we have to press the reset button as the Levein influence regarding the coaching and the scouting is still there but diminishing. I am confident that JJ and RN will change this but the immediate job in hand is to get promoted.

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The rewards from an academy are minimal with most young players not making the grade. Whilst it feels the right thing to have,  I’d get rid of it as it’s expensive with little return.  Harsh I know but I’d rather put the money into a good scouting network and go looking for the talent. 

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On 21/11/2020 at 22:50, Martin_T said:

Just what exactly is it for? The only player in the starting XI last night who was developed at Hearts was 37 year old Craig Gordon.

 

Much hype from the club during the 5 year plan era of investment into youth development, using homegrown players etc. The official Twitter account used to routinely reference, especially during season 2017/18 how many youth players were in the starting line up.

 

Yet since the Walker, Nicholson, Paterson generation, perhaps only Aaron Hickey has established himself as a regular first team starter.

 

Something is going far wrong if we are having to sign 30 year old, poor quality journeyman like Frear to start matches.

 

If they are not good enough, why were Moore, Henderson and Brandon given new deals and by whom?

 

For the relatively large investment, for very little return, something must be going badly wrong in the youth development at the club.

Fully agree with the sentiment in your post. With the amount of investment being put into the Academy there still seems a reluctance to give some of the youngsters game time.

 

I ain’t a football manager by any means but you here Managers talk about introducing them gradually and that they can’t just throw them in and play them permanently 

 

Look at Cochrane when he was introduced initially by Levein. Hickey .... Moore was coming onto a game. Henderson in spells. 
 

Your point in respect of how a youngster could actually be worse than playing the likes of Frear is a very good example. Would like to see them being given more of a run out rather than waste time with a 30 yr old, who quite frankly shouldn’t even be on the bench for us, and given what he has offered so far. 

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3 hours ago, Baxfee said:

The rewards from an academy are minimal with most young players not making the grade. Whilst it feels the right thing to have,  I’d get rid of it as it’s expensive with little return.  Harsh I know but I’d rather put the money into a good scouting network and go looking for the talent. 

It’s hit and miss though, and I guess that’s part of the problem. You might unearth the odd gem now and again, but even if you get a good one, the minute a better offer comes in, they are off. Nothing to do with not wanting to play for us and the size of the club not being aligned with their talent. It’s simply that money talks. Then you have the issue of picking up journeymen happy to take a wage from the club with no real intent or desire to do any more than that. 
 

Definitely scout some of the lower leagues but go for young talent with potential and/or sign up young talent, on long term deals with the promise that they will play for us in the first team a lot quicker than they would if they went to either of the arse cheeks.

 

If they really are good enough then they will head south after being with us, and never move to another Scottish club. That should be the conversations and around how we create a pathway for them to go forward that we need to be having. 
 

I still think the problem is that we have to play them, and keep playing them. In balance and not all at the same time obviously. 

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On 21/11/2020 at 09:50, Martin_T said:

Just what exactly is it for? The only player in the starting XI last night who was developed at Hearts was 37 year old Craig Gordon.

 

Much hype from the club during the 5 year plan era of investment into youth development, using homegrown players etc. The official Twitter account used to routinely reference, especially during season 2017/18 how many youth players were in the starting line up.

 

Yet since the Walker, Nicholson, Paterson generation, perhaps only Aaron Hickey has established himself as a regular first team starter.

 

Something is going far wrong if we are having to sign 30 year old, poor quality journeyman like Frear to start matches.

 

If they are not good enough, why were Moore, Henderson and Brandon given new deals and by whom?

 

For the relatively large investment, for very little return, something must be going badly wrong in the youth development at the club.

The only way you get success is playing the kids. Why do you think Anthony McDonald left, even b4 the players came back Nielson was buying Frear, Roberts who are both murder. Cochrane will be away in the Summer so will Irving because Neilson not interested in building from within.

 

Hickey was lucky, when he got his chance it was because there was no one else, and the boy grabbed it with both hands. Season before Cochrane\McDonald were flying, Levein then buys 20 players and they dont get a chance.

 

Motherwell play their kids, let them make mistakes but keep on playing them, that's where they make money. 

 

By now we should have 3 or 4 academy players as regulars in our squad but instead we have journeymen rubbish like Roberts, Frear and Ginnelly and no one will tell me Mcdonald isnt better than them and Cochrane should be in there ahead of Lee.

 

This isnt the kids or academy its the management not sticking with them and developing them.

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12 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

It seems there's always a "valid" excuse for not playing youngsters -

 

"We need experience to get us promoted this season"

"We're in a relegation dogfight... we need experience to get us out of it"

"We're aiming for a European place, so we need players with experience of doing that elsewhere."

 

So the only way we could implement a strategy of regularly having (say) 5 or more academy graduates in our squad is to accept the  inconsistencies  that comes with it - which isn't really any worse than the consequences we've suffered over the last 3 years when we've brought in  loads of  experienced players every window (at the expense of developing/testing our youngsters.       

 

As I alluded to on another thread, there seems to be  something "odd" about what our players are being taught to do.    It's been going on for a few years under  Levein and Cathro  - not sure that Robbie is any different in that respect, sadly.

 

 

Bang on. Instead of playing youth players or even buying Scottish players, we’ve overpaid for average foreigners who are no better and have delivered nothing except a large wage bill. 

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12 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

It seems there's always a "valid" excuse for not playing youngsters -

 

"We need experience to get us promoted this season"

"We're in a relegation dogfight... we need experience to get us out of it"

"We're aiming for a European place, so we need players with experience of doing that elsewhere."

 

So the only way we could implement a strategy of regularly having (say) 5 or more academy graduates in our squad is to accept the  inconsistencies  that comes with it - which isn't really any worse than the consequences we've suffered over the last 3 years when we've brought in  loads of  experienced players every window (at the expense of developing/testing our youngsters.       

 

As I alluded to on another thread, there seems to be  something "odd" about what our players are being taught to do.    It's been going on for a few years under  Levein and Cathro  - not sure that Robbie is any different in that respect, sadly.

 

 

 

The biggest problem for most of our youngsters is they never get a proper chance by being given a run of games.

 

It's difficult for any player to just come into a team for the odd game and make an impression.

 

Under Stendel we say a big improvement in Irving because he was given a run of games. He showed what he is capable of doing but giving him 15 minutes at the end of a game where we have been poor is hardly the ideal scenarion for him or any young player.

 

We have been doing this for years at Hearts adn show no signs fo changing anytime soon.

 

Maybe the quality of the youngsters we have is not up to the required standard and if so what are we doing to change that?

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15 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

It’s hit and miss though, and I guess that’s part of the problem. You might unearth the odd gem now and again, but even if you get a good one, the minute a better offer comes in, they are off. Nothing to do with not wanting to play for us and the size of the club not being aligned with their talent. It’s simply that money talks. Then you have the issue of picking up journeymen happy to take a wage from the club with no real intent or desire to do any more than that. 
 

Definitely scout some of the lower leagues but go for young talent with potential and/or sign up young talent, on long term deals with the promise that they will play for us in the first team a lot quicker than they would if they went to either of the arse cheeks.

 

If they really are good enough then they will head south after being with us, and never move to another Scottish club. That should be the conversations and around how we create a pathway for them to go forward that we need to be having. 
 

I still think the problem is that we have to play them, and keep playing them. In balance and not all at the same time obviously. 

Young talent we could have bought instead of paying large salaries for people like damour for instance. Nisbet, mccrorie, Lewis Ferguson, dykes. We bought souttar. Campbell at Motherwell, mccann at st Johnstone could be bought and paid for using money spent on damour and have sell on value. 

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Looking back it is incredible how many were hoodwinked by Levein and his dribble about youth development.  A couple of reasonable players through their youth system and a couple of young players signed at Dundee United does not mean he was someone who should have been given free reign at Hearts.

 

In charge of the Academy he put a Council active schools coordinator - and 6 to 7 years on that guy has still never produced a first choice first team player (bar Hickey) and never garnered a proper transfer fee.  On a £4m plus spend!

 

He allowed cash to flow to Macphee's side business - maybe it still does.

 

He talked player development and filling a team full of youth academy players but then went out and signed 15 to 20 players each season - most of them garbage.  Eventually even Ann Budge publicly recognised how youth players route to the first team had been blocked.

 

I think there were lots of people who thought he was doing something special.  Just a slavering punter with the ability to fool the Board and some of the fans.  Hopefully JJ is taking a proper look at Levein's mess.

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35 minutes ago, buzzbomb said:

Young talent we could have bought instead of paying large salaries for people like damour for instance. Nisbet, mccrorie, Lewis Ferguson, dykes. We bought souttar. Campbell at Motherwell, mccann at st Johnstone could be bought and paid for using money spent on damour and have sell on value. 

McCrorie and Ferguson are different 'beasts' to the players we bring through.

 

I used to only see a handful of youth games, or youths in the'unders pro leagues'  but from what I can recall all nice 'touch' players but none with that drive to get stuck in and stand up to more senior pros.

 

I think to an extent a worry I have with Irving long term.

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19 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

When I watched a lot of U19/U20 games over the last few years, there were always individuals in the opposition line ups that impressed me. Declan McManus (at Aberdeen) and Dom Thomas (at Motherwell), both now at Dunfermline were prime examples. Thomas Reilly (at St Mirren), now at Kelty was another.  One wonders why they didn't make it at their first clubs and were released. 


Chatting to a Motherwell pal this morning said Thomas had been highly regarded at Motherwell but developed a Billy big baws mentality and went downhill at that point

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Isn't the whole grand plan based on a production line of youth meaning we don't panic or buy duds?  We'll, the well has been quite dry.

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1 hour ago, Coco said:

Looking back it is incredible how many were hoodwinked by Levein and his dribble about youth development.  A couple of reasonable players through their youth system and a couple of young players signed at Dundee United does not mean he was someone who should have been given free reign at Hearts.

 

In charge of the Academy he put a Council active schools coordinator - and 6 to 7 years on that guy has still never produced a first choice first team player (bar Hickey) and never garnered a proper transfer fee.  On a £4m plus spend!

 

He allowed cash to flow to Macphee's side business - maybe it still does.

 

He talked player development and filling a team full of youth academy players but then went out and signed 15 to 20 players each season - most of them garbage.  Eventually even Ann Budge publicly recognised how youth players route to the first team had been blocked.

 

I think there were lots of people who thought he was doing something special.  Just a slavering punter with the ability to fool the Board and some of the fans.  Hopefully JJ is taking a proper look at Levein's mess.

Excellent post.  Bang on the money. 

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1 hour ago, DETTY29 said:

McCrorie and Ferguson are different 'beasts' to the players we bring through.

 

I used to only see a handful of youth games, or youths in the'unders pro leagues'  but from what I can recall all nice 'touch' players but none with that drive to get stuck in and stand up to more senior pros.

 

I think to an extent a worry I have with Irving long term.

Listen Irving isn’t like Ferguson or mccrorie but not every player has to be. A team is a sum of its parts.

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2 hours ago, buzzbomb said:

Listen Irving isn’t like Ferguson or mccrorie but not every player has to be. A team is a sum of its parts.

Of course not and yes

 

I just think in Scotland anyway players with that energy and drive and bite appear to be more successful.  The type of player we don't appear to produce.

 

I think Irving is potentially better suited outside of the 'Scottish' environment.

 

And I fear him too due to the the amount of poor standard journeymen types we have put in the middle of late, that we pin too much hope on him because it doesn't take long for our fan base to turn on someone.

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12 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Of course not and yes

 

I just think in Scotland anyway players with that energy and drive and bite appear to be more successful.  The type of player we don't appear to produce.

 

I think Irving is potentially better suited outside of the 'Scottish' environment.

 

And I fear him too due to the the amount of poor standard journeymen types we have put in the middle of late, that we pin too much hope on him because it doesn't take long for our fan base to turn on someone.

Agree with all you’re saying there. 

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
5 hours ago, buzzbomb said:

Bang on. Instead of playing youth players or even buying Scottish players, we’ve overpaid for average foreigners who are no better and have delivered nothing except a large wage bill. 


Not just foreigners. Who was the last player to offer poorer value for money than Naismith?

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2 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:


Not just foreigners. Who was the last player to offer poorer value for money than Naismith?

I hadn't realised he was one of our academy products.  Tell us more.

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
5 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I hadn't realised he was one of our academy products.  Tell us more.


Still as thick as ever. Go back to phonics and then read the thread again.

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Smith's right boot
3 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:


Not just foreigners. Who was the last player to offer poorer value for money than Naismith?

 

 

The list is long. 

 

Nade, was he not on £10k plus a week and scored like 4 goals in 50 games or something?

 

 

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9 hours ago, Naisysback said:

The only way you get success is playing the kids. Why do you think Anthony McDonald left, even b4 the players came back Nielson was buying Frear, Roberts who are both murder. Cochrane will be away in the Summer so will Irving because Neilson not interested in building from within.

 

Hickey was lucky, when he got his chance it was because there was no one else, and the boy grabbed it with both hands. Season before Cochrane\McDonald were flying, Levein then buys 20 players and they dont get a chance.

 

Motherwell play their kids, let them make mistakes but keep on playing them, that's where they make money. 

 

By now we should have 3 or 4 academy players as regulars in our squad but instead we have journeymen rubbish like Roberts, Frear and Ginnelly and no one will tell me Mcdonald isnt better than them and Cochrane should be in there ahead of Lee.

 

This isnt the kids or academy its the management not sticking with them and developing them.

Like all of us you really haven’t seen Cochrane or McDonald playing first team football for nearly two years. Both have struggled badly with injuries and growing up to the extent that neither have been impressive enough at reserve team level to do any more than maybe just retain their place in the reserve team. If a player doesn’t do it in the reserves why would any manager give him a game in the first team? 
Hard to believe that it’s virtually three years since Cochrane scored the opener against Celtic and was then sent off the following week. Neither of the two players you mention has been selected for Scotland since their u17 days and even then they were not first picks. 
Sometimes, in fact nearly most times,  we just have to admit that players that look great prospects at 16/17 never really mature into seasoned, high-performing players. I’ll give you Weir, Mole, Simmons et al. Sadly I suspect those two will follow the usual path. 

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1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

I hadn't realised he was one of our academy products.  Tell us more.

Do you feel better about yourself if you always get the last word even if it's a petty and pointless squabble? You seem to do this with regularity.

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Just now, JamTarts98 said:

Do you feel better about yourself if you always get the last word even if it's a pretty and pointless squabble? You seem to do this with regularity.

Do you feel better throwing in your tuppence worth?

The thread is about academy products not seasoned professionals signed from elsewhere.

 

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Just now, JamboAl said:

Do you feel better throwing in your tuppence worth?

The thread is about academy products not seasoned professionals signed from elsewhere.

 

I don't as I see someone struggling to cope with social media therefore my tuppence is worthless.

 

On topic our academy has underperformed for various reasons.

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1 minute ago, JamTarts98 said:

I don't as I see someone struggling to cope with social media therefore my tuppence is worthless.

 

On topic our academy has underperformed for various reasons.

So you agree it has the square root of nil relevance?   Still, that's your post count up from 15 to 17.  Well done.

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9 hours ago, buzzbomb said:

Young talent we could have bought instead of paying large salaries for people like damour for instance. Nisbet, mccrorie, Lewis Ferguson, dykes. We bought souttar. Campbell at Motherwell, mccann at st Johnstone could be bought and paid for using money spent on damour and have sell on value. 

Good point about money wasted on the likes of Damour. Far better to bring in promising Scottish players who can improve the team. Is Damour being paid more than Campbell and McCann put together?

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I reckon our academy has been alright. Decent wee crop coming through. Hickey just sold for big cash. 

 

The difference is at Hamilton etc, the young lads get thrown into the first team and stay there to sink or swim. Or lads get 'introduced' in and because they are not the finished article or next Rudi, we all say there rubbish and they slip in and out of the team 

 

Anyway, I reckon the academy standard is pretty good at the moment. Seen some dross come through in the first team in the last few decades.

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6 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

So you agree it has the square root of nil relevance?   Still, that's your post count up from 15 to 17.  Well done.

Its zero, not nil. 

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