Celtic Boys Club

[The Old Tolbooth]

2 hours ago, Locky said:

My biggest issue here, like others is the desperate attemps to deny any links with the boys club. Celtic are sadly far from alone in the coach abuse scandal, we know that. But from what I recall in news etc. Other clubs have stood up, faced their problems and cut all ties with the coaches in question and even paid compensation to the victims. It's surely what you do, right?

 

Not Celtic though. Hellbent on proving that the youth setup was a seperate entity and therefore they have zero responsibility. It's an absolute shitshow. Any time I debate this with people I know, I get laughed off because apparently, I only feel this way because it's Celtic. I couldn't care if it's Glasgow Celtic, Gala Fairydean or Heart of Midlothian. Any club with the moral bankruptcy to bury their head in the sand on this matter, is an absolute disgrace.

 

Absolutely bang on the cash, and I'd take it even further by stating that as soon as you try and mention it to a Celtic fan, you're accused of point scoring over child abuse, their stance on this is utterly vile! 

[John Findlay]

They are doing their utmost to sweep this under the carpet the SMSM are doing their best to assist. However, those outside of CFC and the SMSM are now quite rightly not letting this go.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

If this becomes a UK wide story, Celtic will have no way of controlling it. They can’t wield an iron bar over the media in England. It would make no difference.

 

The Scottish media will go big on this when it goes to court and they have no choice

[Jodami]

I hope the families get the justice they deserve here, without Celtic there would have been no Celtic boys club, it's patently obvious to any decent human being. It would be intriguing to hear their current manager's take on this. Lennon was a kid at Crewe when Bennell abused team mates so he will know how this impacts people's lives. 

[John Findlay]

14 minutes ago, Jodami said:

I hope the families get the justice they deserve here, without Celtic there would have been no Celtic boys club, it's patently obvious to any decent human being. It would be intriguing to hear their current manager's take on this. Lennon was a kid at Crewe when Bennell abused team mates so he will know how this impacts people's lives. 

He will have been told in no uncertain terms by Lawell to keep his mouth firmly closed, even if questioned on this subject.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

5 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

If this becomes a UK wide story, Celtic will have no way of controlling it. They can’t wield an iron bar over the media in England. It would make no difference.

 

The Scottish media will go big on this when it goes to court and they have no choice

I think you might be surprised just how much backing Celtic have. 

However no one wants to be attached to child abuse and this could potentially see a weakening of that backing 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

35 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

I think you might be surprised just how much backing Celtic have. 

However no one wants to be attached to child abuse and this could potentially see a weakening of that backing 

They don’t have much backing in England, or not in the English media. The papers down here spend all year tangling with Man Utd/Liverpool/Arsenal etc. They won’t be scared of sticking the boot into the Tims. It’s just a question of whether they take an interest

[Riccarton3]

I can't help myself. Going back to the BBC or any other investigative 'team', contributing to the arrest of Torbett is like stopping Saville and thinking it's job done.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

54 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

They don’t have much backing in England, or not in the English media. The papers down here spend all year tangling with Man Utd/Liverpool/Arsenal etc. They won’t be scared of sticking the boot into the Tims. It’s just a question of whether they take an interest

Don't underestimate their powers in dark places. 

[Kiwidoug]

It's a stain.  It's a dark stain.  It's a permanent stain.  They know it.  Everyone knows it.

 

They could have dealt with it quickly and effectively when facts became known.  They chose a cover- up instead.  It didn't work.

 

You made your bed Celtic.

[Tazio]

22 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

It's a stain.  It's a dark stain.  It's a permanent stain.  They know it.  Everyone knows it.

 

They could have dealt with it quickly and effectively when facts became known.  They chose a cover- up instead.  It didn't work.

 

You made your bed Celtic.

The real shocker is that a person or persons let him back into the club after he’d been thrown out originally. And the fact it seems that excuse about him leaving originally to look after his increasing business interests was bull. 
Turning amateur psychologist I think all of these people connected with boys clubs, scouts, BB’s, etc that turn out to be predators don’t plan to be physically active. They get involved in these things to enjoy being around children, observing them, not planning on doing anything, but after a while their urges take over and they can’t help themselves. However someone going back for a second period of time, or attempting to get involved in organisations after having to leave others (quite common) knows exactly what he is doing. 

[cookieboy]

28 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

It's a stain.  It's a dark stain.  It's a permanent stain.  They know it.  Everyone knows it.

 

They could have dealt with it quickly and effectively when facts became known.  They chose a cover- up instead.  It didn't work.

 

You made your bed Celtic.

well said Doug

[Bull's-eye]

Nothing Celtic boys club or football club do  will alter my opinion of them and how they've dealt with this abolition of their history.

 

Fact is, it's history and a pretty distaseful stick to beat anybody with. 

 

I'd rather despise them from a sporting/or lacking sport of view position. 

 

This sort of thread is in very bad taste imo.

[Mikey1874]

People just want some degree of justice.

 

Which can be a big help to those who have suffered. 

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Bull's-eye said:

Nothing Celtic boys club or football club do  will alter my opinion of them and how they've dealt with this abolition of their history.

 

Fact is, it's history and a pretty distaseful stick to beat anybody with. 

 

I'd rather despise them from a sporting/or lacking sport of view position. 

 

This sort of thread is in very bad taste imo.

Do you think the Guardian article was in very bad taste?

And in terms of bad taste how does it and this thread compare to the decades of  cover up and of  continuing abuse targeting victims and their families?

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, Bull's-eye said:

Nothing Celtic boys club or football club do  will alter my opinion of them and how they've dealt with this abolition of their history.

 

Fact is, it's history and a pretty distaseful stick to beat anybody with. 

 

I'd rather despise them from a sporting/or lacking sport of view position. 

 

This sort of thread is in very bad taste imo.

In what way is it in very bad taste.

Celtic Football Club knew of systematic sexual abuse against young boys. They swept it under the carpet. When it was rightly exposed they denied  any wrong doing and then disgustingly claimed that Celtic boys club was in no way connected with Celtic FC 

Run by me again who has acted in bad taste?

[Homme]

1 hour ago, Bull's-eye said:

Nothing Celtic boys club or football club do  will alter my opinion of them and how they've dealt with this abolition of their history.

 

Fact is, it's history and a pretty distaseful stick to beat anybody with. 

 

I'd rather despise them from a sporting/or lacking sport of view position. 

 

This sort of thread is in very bad taste imo.

 

There's nothing wrong with this thread.

 

This is the thing, you try to have an adult discussion about it and apparently it's point scoring or beating them with a stick.

 

All I can see is a pretty grown up discussion about something very topical and something that has affected many clubs over the years as well as a certain club.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

It's a horrible story and Celtic are not doing themselves any favours here.

 

This story is following the pattern of when Rangers when bust. The media tried to ignore it as long as they could. When it became obvious Rangers were in real shit they couldn't get themselves out of and the UK (English) media started taking notice and sending reporters like Alex Thomson up to cover it that changed and all of a sudden our domestic media realised they couldn't ignore it anymore. The same will no doubt happen with this story. 

 

Contrast that with their reporting of Romanov. They were on him from the start, researching, digging into his background, jumping on any negative story immediately, trying to dig up dirt....

Edited October 21, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Byyy The Light]

1 hour ago, Bull's-eye said:

Nothing Celtic boys club or football club do  will alter my opinion of them and how they've dealt with this abolition of their history.

 

Fact is, it's history and a pretty distaseful stick to beat anybody with. 

 

I'd rather despise them from a sporting/or lacking sport of view position. 

 

This sort of thread is in very bad taste imo.

cant agree that this in very bad taste. Almost every single post is condemning it as well as pointing out that it goes beyond sport and is not point scoring. It’s a societal issue and one that such a prominent organisation in this country should not be covering up.

 

It doesn’t matter that it’s a football club. Their influence is huge and they have a duty to act correctly. They’re doing the complete opposite. It’s disgusting. 

[Mister T]

2 hours ago, Bull's-eye said:

Nothing Celtic boys club or football club do  will alter my opinion of them and how they've dealt with this abolition of their history.

 

Fact is, it's history and a pretty distaseful stick to beat anybody with. 

 

I'd rather despise them from a sporting/or lacking sport of view position. 

 

This sort of thread is in very bad taste imo.

The fact it's history is irrelevant. The abuse and cover up / denial is still effecting the victims and their families in the here and now. 

[Bull's-eye]

1 hour ago, John Findlay said:

In what way is it in very bad taste.

Celtic Football Club knew of systematic sexual abuse against young boys. They swept it under the carpet. When it was rightly exposed they denied  any wrong doing and then disgustingly claimed that Celtic boys club was in no way connected with Celtic FC 

Run by me again who has acted in bad taste?

 

They've factually been to court and it's in the public domain. 

 

I think we all know why we hate Celtic and it's not because Scott Brown is a Peado.

[Francis Albert]

3 hours ago, Bull's-eye said:

Nothing Celtic boys club or football club do  will alter my opinion of them and how they've dealt with this abolition of their history.

 

Fact is, it's history and a pretty distaseful stick to beat anybody with. 

 

I'd rather despise them from a sporting/or lacking sport of view position. 

 

This sort of thread is in very bad taste imo.

As I think was clear from the OP I actually worried before starting the thread that it would turn into a sectarian hate filled rant against the whole institution  of Celtic Football Club. But it didn't. It has recognised that child abuse in organisations dealing with children was widespread back then and has focused on the denial that it happened and refusal to come to terms with it and recognise the damage it did. And the failures of the Soottish media and authorities to acknowledge it.

[Francis Albert]

9 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

They've factually been to court and it's in the public domain. 

 

I think we all know why we hate Celtic and it's not because Scott Brown is a Peado.

And you accuse others of bad taste?

 

Since 1967 I have a soft spot for Celtic. Their achievement then is probably the high point in Scottish football history. In fact delete the word probably.

[John Findlay]

14 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

They've factually been to court and it's in the public domain. 

 

I think we all know why we hate Celtic and it's not because Scott Brown is a Peado.

You are away off the mark here.

 

[JDK2020]

On 20/10/2020 at 17:14, Francis Albert said:

 

I know one of the guys who is currently taking legal action, albeit not against celtic nor any of their employees.

His case is against a representative of a now defunct youth team, with his testimony featuring in the ongoing SFA inquiry.

I've known the guy for decades and had no idea he had been subjected to horrific abuse in his teens, in fact none of us did. Hearing him talk about it now it is amazing how he has held it together all this time.

The concerning thing now is that many think that the SFA inquiry stinks to high heaven, and fears are rife that it's going to turn into a whitewash, virtually downplaying any guilt on the likes of Celtic and/or the SFA.

An interim release of the inquiry findings by the chair went out of it's way to minimise any expectation of a comeback on guilty parties and indeed took the time to commend clubs who have been found to be severely lacking in the past. For instance, celtic are commended on no less than 3 occasions within the interim report for the great work they have done in introducing safeguards for young players! Talk about shutting the barn door when the horse has bolted?

Taking this on board alongside the Scottish media's absolute refusal to cover the scandal has to give real concern that justice will be served.

 

 

 

 

[johnthomas]

2 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

It's a horrible story and Celtic are not doing themselves any favours here.

 

This story is following the pattern of when Rangers when bust. The media tried to ignore it as long as they could. When it became obvious Rangers were in real shit they couldn't get themselves out of and the UK (English) media started taking notice and sending reporters like Alex Thomson up to cover it that changed and all of a sudden our domestic media realised they couldn't ignore it anymore. The same will no doubt happen with this story. 

 

Contrast that with their reporting of Romanov. They were on him from the start, researching, digging into his background, jumping on any negative story immediately, trying to dig up dirt....

The media coverage of Fergus McCann was pretty brutal , as I remember it , from day one 

He was portrayed as a figure of fun . I was certainly taken in .

[Tazio]

1 hour ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

They've factually been to court and it's in the public domain. 

 

I think we all know why we hate Celtic and it's not because Scott Brown is a Peado.

So why do we all hate Celtic? 
If you’re trying to insinuate it’s because of religion then **** off with that nonsense. Maybe for you but don’t tar me or most other Hearts supporters with that brush. 
If you’re trying to say it’s because even though they win and have won vast amounts and still have a persecution complex in their scummy support then I agree. 

[N Lincs Jambo]

37 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

And you accuse others of bad taste?

 

Since 1967 I have a soft spot for Celtic. Their achievement then is probably the high point in Scottish football history. In fact delete the word probably.

67 undoubtedly was the high water mark for Scottish football and unlikely to be repeated ever FA. My dad was Celtic but he encouraged me to support Hearts due to Hearts being my local team. Cheers Dad !

 

 I know it’s been mentioned before about the dates Torbett was/wasn’t around Celtic Boys Club especially in the newspaper article. 
 

I’m going to chuck in a bit of theory which I will state up front that I can’t support in any way shape or form in terms of proof.

 

Torbett got fired from Celtic in 74, from various sources I have heard that this was down to Jock Stein, and he (Jock Stein) was mighty pissed off that the club wouldn’t give full disclosure to the police. His being fired was down to Stein who did know all about the allegations and was prepared to go all the way but CFC didn’t want the negative publicity.

 

Jock Stein left Celtic for Leeds in 78 before accepting the role as Scotland manager. The usual story was that he was promised a position on the board but it was opposed on the grounds he was a Protestant. Other versions say it was because he had Torbett fired and was never forgiven for that. Me? I don’t know at all.

 

In any case, in 1978, the year Stein left Celtic, Torbett was able to resume his role as paedo no 1 at Celtic Boys Club and kept abusing young boys for many a year thereafter.

 

Just so I’m clear, this has nothing to do with any dislike/hatred of Celtic as a club. As many posters have already said, had this been Hearts we would have been just as disgusted. Probably even more due to it being our club.

[Bull's-eye]

8 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

As I think was clear from the OP I actually worried before starting the thread that it would turn into a sectarian hate filled rant against the whole institution  of Celtic Football Club. But it didn't. It has recognised that child abuse in organisations dealing with children was widespread back then and has focused on the denial that it happened and refusal to come to terms with it and recognise the damage it did. And the failures of the Soottish media and authorities to acknowledge it.

 

Yes, because acknowledging child abuse is a something that's best played out in the media. 

Deary me.

[Bull's-eye]

7 hours ago, Tazio said:

So why do we all hate Celtic? 
If you’re trying to insinuate it’s because of religion then **** off with that nonsense. Maybe for you but don’t tar me or most other Hearts supporters with that brush. 
If you’re trying to say it’s because even though they win and have won vast amounts and still have a persecution complex in their scummy support then I agree. 

 

I hate Celtic because they have a monopoly on Scottish Football, have the scummiest support in world football and consistently beat us.

 

Nothing more, nothing less. 

[Bull's-eye]

8 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

And you accuse others of bad taste?

 

Since 1967 I have a soft spot for Celtic. Their achievement then is probably the high point in Scottish football history. In fact delete the word probably.

 

 

Highlighting child abuse is in bad taste and as for sweeping it under the carpet I'm sure there's plenty of victims around that do that gladly.

 

This isn't a debate about child abuse it's about sticking the boot into a Football club in the lowest possible way, it's actually very sick imo.

[OldGorgie]

The Guardian is perfectly correct to run with this story. We can only guess how many youngsters lives have been destroyed when they should have been protected at a boys club. Not surprisingly the Redtops have been virtually silent on this. 

[Bull's-eye]

3 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

The Guardian is perfectly correct to run with this story. We can only guess how many youngsters lives have been destroyed when they should have been protected at a boys club. Not surprisingly the Redtops have been virtually silent on this. 

 

Just like you can only guess how many closed wounds have now been reopened.

[Ainsley Harriott]

21 hours ago, John Findlay said:

They are doing their utmost to sweep this under the carpet the SMSM are doing their best to assist. However, those outside of CFC and the SMSM are now quite rightly not letting this go.

Not allowed to bring it up here though 

[Ainsley Harriott]

If anyone is sick enough to continue supporting a football club that abused kids in their care then they should be ashamed. Should we stay silent on the subject to save the feelings of the Glasgow unwashed?

[Bull's-eye]

12 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

If anyone is sick enough to continue supporting a football club that abused kids in their care then they should be ashamed. Should we stay silent on the subject to save the feelings of the Glasgow unwashed?

 

No, but you should have some respect for the children that were abused. 

[XB52]

11 hours ago, Homme said:

 

There's nothing wrong with this thread.

 

This is the thing, you try to have an adult discussion about it and apparently it's point scoring or beating them with a stick.

 

All I can see is a pretty grown up discussion about something very topical and something that has affected many clubs over the years as well as a certain club.

Have to admit I have been pleasantly surprised that certain posters haven't steamed in and ruined this thread 

Edited to say I spoke too soon as one of them just turned up

Edited October 22, 2020 by XB52

[Ainsley Harriott]

21 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

No, but you should have some respect for the children that were abused. 

By pretending it never happened like the Scottish media do?

[Bull's-eye]

19 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

By pretending it never happened like the Scottish media do?

 

Ever thought the reason for that is that the abused don't want it played out in public ?

[Ainsley Harriott]

3 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

Ever thought the reason for that is that the abused don't want it played out in public ?

Ever thought that Celtic have the Scottish press in their pockets 

[Bull's-eye]

4 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Ever thought that Celtic have the Scottish press in their pockets 

 

I couldn't care less about Celtic or the media.

 

There's another side to this story that don't want it played out in public and would rather forget it ever happened, those people's wishes should be respected. 

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

Yes, because acknowledging child abuse is a something that's best played out in the media. 

Deary me.

It it wasn't for the media much child abuse would often not be acknowledged at all. And much more of it would happen.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Francis Albert

[John Findlay]

58 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

I couldn't care less about Celtic or the media.

 

There's another side to this story that don't want it played out in public and would rather forget it ever happened, those people's wishes should be respected. 

If victims didnt want it played out, they would never have come forward to begin with.

Those that have come forward should be acknowledged for their bravery for doing so. 

If you cant see that. Then you have serious problems.

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

Ever thought the reason for that is that the abused don't want it played out in public ?

What about those victims who do want their experience to be known about as with those quoted in the Guardian? 

I shared some fears about the way this thread might go but I really didn't expect suppression of the facts about abuse to be supported. Perhaps Celtic were just caring for the victims by covering it up?

[OldGorgie]

2 hours ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

No, but you should have some respect for the children that were abused. 

I do thats why unlike you, I expect the full weight of the law to fall on the perpetrators. Did anyone at Celtic cover it up. How has the life’s of the  kids been affected ? These are the questions that any right minded person would ask. Portraying it as an attack on Celtic FC is a feeble answer to a disgraceful episode in Scottish Football.

[Bull's-eye]

1 hour ago, John Findlay said:

If victims didnt want it played out, they would never have come forward to begin with.

Those that have come forward should be acknowledged for their bravery for doing so. 

If you cant see that. Then you have serious problems.

 

They didn't come forward to the media, they went to the Police.

 

There are obviously those that didn't, if you can't feel for them then you have serious problems.

[Mikey1874]

11 hours ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

67 undoubtedly was the high water mark for Scottish football and unlikely to be repeated ever FA. My dad was Celtic but he encouraged me to support Hearts due to Hearts being my local team. Cheers Dad !

 

 I know it’s been mentioned before about the dates Torbett was/wasn’t around Celtic Boys Club especially in the newspaper article. 
 

I’m going to chuck in a bit of theory which I will state up front that I can’t support in any way shape or form in terms of proof.

 

Torbett got fired from Celtic in 74, from various sources I have heard that this was down to Jock Stein, and he (Jock Stein) was mighty pissed off that the club wouldn’t give full disclosure to the police. His being fired was down to Stein who did know all about the allegations and was prepared to go all the way but CFC didn’t want the negative publicity.

 

Jock Stein left Celtic for Leeds in 78 before accepting the role as Scotland manager. The usual story was that he was promised a position on the board but it was opposed on the grounds he was a Protestant. Other versions say it was because he had Torbett fired and was never forgiven for that. Me? I don’t know at all.

 

In any case, in 1978, the year Stein left Celtic, Torbett was able to resume his role as paedo no 1 at Celtic Boys Club and kept abusing young boys for many a year thereafter.

 

Just so I’m clear, this has nothing to do with any dislike/hatred of Celtic as a club. As many posters have already said, had this been Hearts we would have been just as disgusted. Probably even more due to it being our club.

 

Very interesting about Jock Stein. Dates seem to match. 

 

It was at the time controversial about Stein being 'snubbed'. 

 

Presume the sort of things the lawyers have been investigating.

[John Findlay]

46 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

They didn't come forward to the media, they went to the Police.

 

There are obviously those that didn't, if you can't feel for them then you have serious problems.

I feel for them all. In a way you will never comprehend or understand.

You carry on being an apologist for covering child sex abusers.

This should always be exposed( by any means possible), investigated thoroughly, the perpetrators brought to justice and the victims looked after and compensated in anyway they deem fit.

[SectionDJambo]

53 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

They didn't come forward to the media, they went to the Police.

 

There are obviously those that didn't, if you can't feel for them then you have serious problems.

I get your point about some of the victims of this outrage being reluctant to want their suffering to be out into the glare of the public. However, those who seek justice for what happened to them shouldn't be hindered either. The poor souls who want to retain their privacy can surely do so, without the others who want to tell of their horrific experiences having to be forgotten.

Keeping this quiet for the genuine concerns of some, will only serve to protect the names of the perpetrators of these crimes.

Why the current Celtic are still being so evasive about this, when they should be able to easily disassociate themselves from the club hierarchy of that time, who, it seems, covered this up after ignoring obvious signs that something was going on, is a mystery. Trying to protect the reputations of past "custodians" perhaps?

 

[Rogue Daddy]

11 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

I feel for them all. In a way you will never comprehend or understand.

You carry on being an apologist for covering child sex abusers.

This should always be exposed( by any means possible), investigated thoroughly, the perpetrators brought to justice and the victims looked after and compensated in anyway they deem fit.

This 100%! This should never be sweeped under the carpet and should absolutely be front and centre in the media. Anyone and everyone complicit should be brought to justice. I applaud all the abused who are brave enough to come forward to ‘out’ the perpetrators - and I get there may be some who don’t want to be reminded and have old wounds reopened - but those who come forward should given everything (looking at you Scottish media)  - not least support - required to expose this filth. Everything possible  should be done to ensure this sort of thing doesn’t happen. Ever.