Celtic Boys Club

[Francis Albert]

It isn't often these days that Scottish Football attracts much interest down here but today's Guardian in its "Long Read" feature has no fewer than 4 pages on the Celtic Boys Club scandal of the sixties. It is not so much about the sexual abuse itself (any organisation involving  with youngsters tends alas to attract sex offenders and abusers) but more about the cover up  by the club and football authorities and the abuse and threats directed at the accusers from the start, and which continues to this day with internet abuse and even death threats against those  victims and relatives who speak up about it. The SFA seemingly  promised an investigation in 2018 but there is no sign of any report of the outcome. Maybe a Scottish  journalist could ask Mr Lawell for an update on progress.

 

Or maybe not.

[Mikey1874]

It's fairly familiar. Might be someone who hasn't spoken before. 

 

Article below. 

 

The key thing is it's leading to a civil court case next year. The excuse why Celtic and the SFA won't say or do anything.

 

 

[Des' Dad]

I have a feeling the Mods will need to be well on top of this one.

[loveofthegame]

Read it earlier. Here’s hoping the civil case next year finally brings about some recompense for the victims, not that anything can ever wipe away the horror some of those guys were exposed to as laddies. 

[Mikey1874]

Thompsons Solicitors taking the case have been seeking publicity for the case. 

 

Usually publicity is sought in cases to encourage other witnesses. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Mikey1874

[Brave Hearts]

What a harrowing read that article is.

 

Where are the Scottish media in providing similar comprehensive reports on this subject ?

 

Silence.

 

Even more silent than the inertia by celtic and its board on accepting and addressing the crimes committed by their employees.

 

Only folk making a noise are the celtic ‘fans’ who are, unbelievably, intimidating and threatening the real victims involved in this subject.

 

 

[Tazio]

For me the most shocking thing in terms of current times is the abuse given to family members of the victims. I’d hate to think I’d ever be as low as abusing victims of paedophilia based on the football team I support.  

[Francis Albert]

8 minutes ago, Brave Hearts said:

What a harrowing read that article is.

 

Where are the Scottish media in providing similar comprehensive reports on this subject ?

 

Silence.

 

Even more silent than the inertia by celtic and its board on accepting and addressing the crimes committed by their employees.

 

Only folk making a noise are the celtic ‘fans’ who are, unbelievably, intimidating and threatening the real victims involved in this subject.

 

 

It took a London based journalist with Channel Four to get to grips with the Rangers story. For 90% or more of Scotland's media (and beyond the media) the OF are untouchable. In fact they effectively act as cheerleaders.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

12 minutes ago, Tazio said:

For me the most shocking thing in terms of current times is the abuse given to family members of the victims. I’d hate to think I’d ever be as low as abusing victims of paedophilia based on the football team I support.  

I love Hearts. Not that much though.

Disgusting.

[Mikey1874]

5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

It took a London based journalist with Channel Four to get to grips with the Rangers story. For 90% or more of Scotland's media (and beyond the media) the OF are untouchable. In fact they effectively act as cheerleaders.

 

The Times England and Channel 4 are the only other media groups covering this in any significant way. 

 

In particular The Times has been hammering the issue of Celtic Boys Club being acknowledged by everyone at Celtic as part of the club in the 1980s and before - basically their academy. When Celtic are relying on them being separate to avoid any responsibility. 

[Francis Albert]

31 minutes ago, Des' Dad said:

I have a feeling the Mods will need to be well on top of this one.

I hope not. The intention was not to stoke anti-Celtic or sectarian feelings. It was more about the silence of the Scottish media and auuthoroities, in football and beyond. . When people talk about corruption it is not that people are being bribed or blackmailed but that the media and wider Scottish society are complicit because they enthusiatiacally embrace the OF and its impact on Scottish football and wider society and amaintain a code of omerta.

[John Findlay]

11 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I hope not. The intention was not to stoke anti-Celtic or sectarian feelings. It was more about the silence of the Scottish media and auuthoroities, in football and beyond. . When people talk about corruption it is not that people are being bribed or blackmailed but that the media and wider Scottish society are complicit because they enthusiatiacally embrace the OF and its impact on Scottish football and wider society and amaintain a code of omerta.

The Glasgow mafia are up there with the Sicilian mafia.

[OldGorgie]

39 minutes ago, Tazio said:

For me the most shocking thing in terms of current times is the abuse given to family members of the victims. I’d hate to think I’d ever be as low as abusing victims of paedophilia based on the football team I support.  

Cue the great unwashed that follow Celtic.

[Carl Fredrickson]

Just finished reading the article. Heartbreaking stuff. Strange that the sentences in Scotland seem less than the guy down south got. 

 

As Francis Albert has stated, any organisation that has contact with young people are likely to attract the worst in our society as helpers/workers etc. I worked in youth work for a number of years and have witnessed "dodgy types" trying to get involved. Even modern checks will not stop the most determined but at least there is something. 

 

In the 70s and 80s anyone could set up a youth group or boys club with no checks. 

 

The CBC case is awful in so many ways. The number of potential victims and abusers is horrifying.  My heart goes out to the victims and I hope that they see justice in the civil court. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Carl Fredrickson

[Rizla]

22 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I hope not. The intention was not to stoke anti-Celtic or sectarian feelings. It was more about the silence of the Scottish media and auuthoroities, in football and beyond. . When people talk about corruption it is not that people are being bribed or blackmailed but that the media and wider Scottish society are complicit because they enthusiatiacally embrace the OF and its impact on Scottish football and wider society and amaintain a code of omerta.

I’m with this.

This is is a story about abuse, child abuse in this case. It doesn’t matter about the team, sport or religion, it’s shocking child abuse. What these poor lads went through must have been terrifying.

I would imagine it will never leave them.
Unfortunately this kind of thing goes on and the victims are too scared to speak out then when they’re older and stronger they get grief again. Utter disgrace.

[DH1986]

If this was anyone other than one half of the OF involved it would have been the aim of countless journos to get this tragic story out in the open decades before it did.

Its been ignored for too long and the victims deserve justice.

 

This is the Scottish Football equivalent of the story in the movie Spotlight and those who ignored it because its Celtic should be forever ashamed of themselves.

 

[Geddyalexneil]

The most disgraceful aspect in this is the way that the main organisation try to wash their hands of abuse.

Celtic FC are not the only party that refuses to assist abuse victims, there are a number of religious organisations who will do anything but admit guilt and pay out to help those who have suffered and continue to do so. In many cases those victims are so mentally or psychologically damaged that the lives they may have had lived have been taken from them and they struggle financially not able to hold down jobs and or get the right help (as that tends to be expensive, or they wait a very long time for consultations).

Like others have said on here, wherever there are children in organisations both religious and secular there will be those hiding in  those groups. No one can stop it completely from happening. Most organisations are now beginning to take more safeguards but even then it can still happen.

I think all anyone asks is that if the people in charge of groups where there are children are confronted by a child telling them of abuse that they immediately take action, contact the authorities and make sure no one else can be hurt as well down the line. Stop offenders in their tracks.  It shouldn't be allowed to go on. Too many groups have thought if they hide it then it will go away. That if they tell the police then folks will think badly of them. They are so wrong. Knowing that an organisation will immediately take action should their protections fail gives a certain amount of comfort, knowing that if it happens to anyone we know that the child will be taken seriously and given every bit of help required. 

I truly hope these victims win their case and get the justice they so deserve.

[HoGwash]

I came across this quote recently, which seems relevant in relation to the Scottish media's approach to this horrible story 

 

“If you are neutral in situations of injustice you have chosen the side of the oppressor.”

[OTT]

Jesus Christ. 

 

Don't even know what to say, Celtic should be liable to these kids. It was their branding that lent credibility to what was in effect an abuse ring. By continuing to deny and deflect rather than address what went on they are continuing the pain these poor laddies have had to endure their entire lives. They've put their reputation above the welfare of these boys. Its absolutely disgraceful. 

[Weebroon98]

One of the sisters of a victim, who took his own life, has been abused by keyboard warriors. She has constantly asked for the scot gov and especially the justice minister to become involved but she doesn't even get a reply from them. What hope do these victims have

[davemclaren]

8 minutes ago, Weebroon98 said:

One of the sisters of a victim, who took his own life, has been abused by keyboard warriors. She has constantly asked for the scot gov and especially the justice minister to become involved but she doesn't even get a reply from them. What hope do these victims have

You would think she could involve the police if she is being harassed on-line. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

Was there not a court case that started around the same time we were getting shafted by the SPFL? 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

In this day and age, where civil rights are quite correctly pursued furiously,  this case seems to go well against the grain

[Perth to Paisley]

Its irrelevant which club it is/was this is absolutely horrendous.

There are no winners; only losers.

...

Started to write a whole lot more but cannot out into words...deleted it

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

Was there not a court case that started around the same time we were getting shafted by the SPFL? 

 

This has been going on for a long time. Building a case. The key factor is the determination of the victims and family members. Many who are devout Celtic fans too. They have very good solicitors now. 

 

I didn’t know until the article that it is going to court next year. 

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, DH1986 said:

If this was anyone other than one half of the OF involved it would have been the aim of countless journos to get this tragic story out in the open decades before it did.

Its been ignored for too long and the victims deserve justice.

 

This is the Scottish Football equivalent of the story in the movie Spotlight and those who ignored it because its Celtic should be forever ashamed of themselves.

 

Where has our national broadcaster BBC Scotland been on this? They flew out a reporter and camera crew to Bosnia-Herzegovena in Vlad's day to produce a documentary which shockingly revealed that his Bosnian aluminium plant didn't pay much tax. Or at least not as much as the clearly out of her depth Bosnian Economics Minister thought it should. Vlad like every businessman in the world was managing his business to minimise tax spend. No evidence or even any suggestion that any law had been broken. But Bosnian OPs were starving and it was down to Vlad. Cue solemn music.

 

 

[Mikey1874]

Just now, Francis Albert said:

Where has our national broadcaster BBC Scotland been on this? They flew out a reporter and camera crew to Bosnia-Herzegovena in Vlad's day to produce a documentary which shockingly revealed that his Bosnian aluminium plant didn't pay much tax. Or at least not as much as the clearly out of her depth Bosnian Economics Minister thought it should. Vlad like every businessman in the world was managing his business to minimise tax spend. No evidence or even any suggestion that any law had been broken. But Bosnian OPs were starving and it was down to Vlad. Cue solemn music.

 

 

 

The BBC went to America to expose Jim Torbett to the US authorities. Lead directly to his extradition and then current jail sentence.  

[Francis Albert]

18 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

The BBC went to America to expose Jim Torbett to the US authorities. Lead directly to his extradition and then current jail sentence.  

OK. Apologies to BBC Scotland  the Herald and the Record who were also Involved a quarter of a century ago.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Francis Albert

[John Findlay]

Those who knew this,was taking place and stood/sat and didnt do anything about it, are as guilty as the perpetrators themselves.

Celtic as an institution should hang their heads in shame along with the Catholic church and other religious churches.

The very persons they were meant to protect, they abused. There is no excuse.

May those victims find and receive justice in the fullness of time.

[Салатные палочки]

I absolutely despise that vile club and their supporters.

[OldGorgie]

Celtic get an easy time with the press. This is yet another example of the easy easy approach they get. Another glaring example is Liewells nonsense about allowing spectators back into grounds. Instead of roundly condemning him for gross incompetence the Glesga  press went along with it.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

It’s odds on that Celtic will try and settle this early if it looks like it’s going to court, probably with one of those ridiculous ‘we accept no liability’ statements.

 

They won’t want to take the chance on what might come out in the evidence. They’ll also have enough self awareness to know how it’ll look if they fight to the end to deny any association with a Boys Club with their name above the door.

[Rudy T]

55 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

The BBC went to America to expose Jim Torbett to the US authorities. Lead directly to his extradition and then current jail sentence.  

 

Alan Brazil being one of his most high profile victims.

 

The damage both sides of the old firm have done to Scottish society over the years is unquantifiable yet they continue to operate unchecked by the majority of the Scottish media.

[merrymac]

28 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Those who knew this,was taking place and stood/sat and didnt do anything about it, are as guilty as the perpetrators themselves.

Celtic as an institution should hang their heads in shame along with the Catholic church and other religious churches.

The very persons they were meant to protect, they abused. There is no excuse.

May those victims find and receive justice in the fullness of time.

Well said John 100% on the money.

[Footballfirst]

I spoke to someone a couple of years ago who was coached by Gordon Neely as a youth. The modus operandi was similar to that described in the Guardian article. The kids were frightened to do anything wrong at training that would catch Neely's attention and the likelihood that they end up in a one-to-one with him afterwards.  Again there were lots of murmurings of what went on behind closed doors, but the kids were frightened to say anything about what went on.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Footballfirst

[Riccarton3]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

The BBC went to America to expose Jim Torbett to the US authorities. Lead directly to his extradition and then current jail sentence.  

Have they been active beyond this? Bringing Torbett to justice is a win for everyone, though unless he provides testimony he might as well be dead (accepting the relief for many to see it behind bars). Investigating beyond doubt the connection between boys club and professional club  provides a different kind of challenge.

[Pilmuir]

2 hours ago, Sir Gio said:

In this day and age, where civil rights are quite correctly pursued furiously,  this case seems to go well against the grain

This case involves Celtic who are a law unto themselves, aided and abetted by the Scottish media.

[Morgan]

Thread title gives so much that could be said.

 

It’s probably best not to indulge.

[Smoked-Glass]

The toilet rims must be the most vile club on the planet. 

 

Satan's XI

Edited October 20, 2020 by Smoked-Glass

[manaliveits105]

Our gallant Scottish journalists will be all over this disgrace any decade now 

[Hesh]

What’s the connection between Celtic and CBC again, other than the name of course 

[Mikey1874]

7 minutes ago, Hesh said:

What’s the connection between Celtic and CBC again, other than the name of course 

 

For those of us brought up in the 70s and 80s Celtic Boys Club were Celtic's youth academy. 

 

Certainly at that time that is how Celtic Football Club talked about them. 

 

They now say they were totally separate. Nothing to do with Celtic. They are now reformed with a different name. 

[Francis Albert]

4 hours ago, davemclaren said:

You would think she could involve the police if she is being harassed on-line. 😇

Mmmm. The Stathclyde Police or Police Scotland aka the Greater Strathclyde Police? Good luck with that in tackling Celtic (or Rangers) fanatics and bigots.

[Francis Albert]

2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

For those of us brought up in the 70s and 80s Celtic Boys Club were Celtic's youth academy. 

 

Certainly at that time that is how Celtic Football Club talked about them. 

 

They now say they were totally separate. Nothing to do with Celtic. They are now reformed with a different name. 

As the Guardian piece says CBC boys were regularly paraded at Celtic Park when the abuse was going on. Nothing to do with Celtic?  

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

As the Guardian piece says CBC boys were regularly paraded at Celtic Park when the abuse was going on. Nothing to do with Celtic?  

 

This is where the Times have done a good job sourcing Celtic documents where they talk about CBC as if its part of the club. Celtic View articles notably. Their articles are behind a paywall but can be sourced. 

 

Guardian articles quotes Thompsons Solicitors as making this case. Though I think it might be a struggle at court. 

[iainmac]

6 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

It isn't often these days that Scottish Football attracts much interest down here but today's Guardian in its "Long Read" feature has no fewer than 4 pages on the Celtic Boys Club scandal of the sixties. It is not so much about the sexual abuse itself (any organisation involving  with youngsters tends alas to attract sex offenders and abusers) but more about the cover up  by the club and football authorities and the abuse and threats directed at the accusers from the start, and which continues to this day with internet abuse and even death threats against those  victims and relatives who speak up about it. The SFA seemingly  promised an investigation in 2018 but there is no sign of any report of the outcome. Maybe a Scottish  journalist could ask Mr Lawell for an update on progress.

 

Or maybe not.

 

I read that this morning - harrowing stuff.

 

The 2 victims being quoted in the article were both described as "boyhood Rangers fans". I couldn't help but think that this would give the Neanderthals the excuse they were looking for to paint this as some kind of "Sevco revenge". 

 

The Celtic "separate entity" defence is, literally, incredible.

[davemclaren]

8 hours ago, iainmac said:

 

I read that this morning - harrowing stuff.

 

The 2 victims being quoted in the article were both described as "boyhood Rangers fans". I couldn't help but think that this would give the Neanderthals the excuse they were looking for to paint this as some kind of "Sevco revenge". 

 

The Celtic "separate entity" defence is, literally, incredible.

It sounds like a lawyers construct. Their public liability insurers may be shaping their defence strategy.
 

These sort of incidents happened pretty regularly in the 60s/70s. Locally to me an elderly scout master was jailed in the last couple of years for offences committed around 50 years ago. 

[Locky]

My biggest issue here, like others is the desperate attemps to deny any links with the boys club. Celtic are sadly far from alone in the coach abuse scandal, we know that. But from what I recall in news etc. Other clubs have stood up, faced their problems and cut all ties with the coaches in question and even paid compensation to the victims. It's surely what you do, right?

 

Not Celtic though. Hellbent on proving that the youth setup was a seperate entity and therefore they have zero responsibility. It's an absolute shitshow. Any time I debate this with people I know, I get laughed off because apparently, I only feel this way because it's Celtic. I couldn't care if it's Glasgow Celtic, Gala Fairydean or Heart of Midlothian. Any club with the moral bankruptcy to bury their head in the sand on this matter, is an absolute disgrace.

[AndyNic]

15 minutes ago, Locky said:

My biggest issue here, like others is the desperate attemps to deny any links with the boys club. Celtic are sadly far from alone in the coach abuse scandal, we know that. But from what I recall in news etc. Other clubs have stood up, faced their problems and cut all ties with the coaches in question and even paid compensation to the victims. It's surely what you do, right?

 

Not Celtic though. Hellbent on proving that the youth setup was a seperate entity and therefore they have zero responsibility. It's an absolute shitshow. Any time I debate this with people I know, I get laughed off because apparently, I only feel this way because it's Celtic. I couldn't care if it's Glasgow Celtic, Gala Fairydean or Heart of Midlothian. Any club with the moral bankruptcy to bury their head in the sand on this matter, is an absolute disgrace.

 

Correct. Absolutely shameful.

[Hesh]

10 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

For those of us brought up in the 70s and 80s Celtic Boys Club were Celtic's youth academy. 

 

Certainly at that time that is how Celtic Football Club talked about them. 

 

They now say they were totally separate. Nothing to do with Celtic. They are now reformed with a different name. 

Cheers