**** Official Premiership Hickey Thread ( merged ) ****

[jr ewing]

Can we afford our first ever £1m player?

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Link?

it has been on the Edinburgh evening news Hearts content for hours

[Jamboross]

46 minutes ago, innerjambo said:

Confirmed above 10% too.......Nice!!

 

The percentage is explicitly NOT confirmed in the article. The 10% figure is just the Evening News plucking a figure out the air and saying that's what they "believe" it is, Savage himself only confirmed that it exists and is a percentage. 

[livi]

59 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

 

Evening News guessing again.

 

Savage did not confirm the exact percentage figure of the sell-on clause but it is believed to exceed ten per cent.

Edited May 18, 2022 by livi

[BackOfTheNet]

As others have previously pointed out, it’s not beneficial to us to reveal what any sell on % would be when we’re attempting to sign players. Teams, players and especially agents will be looking for more from us if they think we’re getting millions.

 

Since Anderson doesn’t like to say anything unless it’s basically a done deal in terms of transfers, I’d wager he’s confirmed the actual number, and “above 10%” is ambiguous enough for Savage and Hearts to still have him in their good books. So I’d say above 10% is pretty concrete as it’s going to be until he’s sold and we get to see the financial reports.

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

Just now, BackOfTheNet said:

As others have previously pointed out, it’s not beneficial to us to reveal what any sell on % would be when we’re attempting to sign players. Teams, players and especially agents will be looking for more from us if they think we’re getting millions.

 

Since Anderson doesn’t like to say anything unless it’s basically a done deal in terms of transfers, I’d wager he’s confirmed the actual number, and “above 10%” is ambiguous enough for Savage and Hearts to still have him in their good books. So I’d say above 10% is pretty concrete as it’s going to be until he’s sold and we get to see the financial reports.

It also doesn’t help us re potential future sales of current players.

 

”You’re not getting a 25% sell on fee for him because you only got a 12% sell on for Hickey”

[BackOfTheNet]

Just now, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

It also doesn’t help us re potential future sales of current players.

 

”You’re not getting a 25% sell on fee for him because you only got a 12% sell on for Hickey”

Good point

[jr ewing]

15 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

It also doesn’t help us re potential future sales of current players.

 

”You’re not getting a 25% sell on fee for him because you only got a 12% sell on for Hickey”

Aye but he was worth millions. 

[davemclaren]

36 minutes ago, livi said:

Evening News guessing again.

 

Savage did not confirm the exact percentage figure of the sell-on clause but it is believed to exceed ten per cent.

Indeed. 

[Naisys Tackle]

On 17/05/2022 at 18:56, Francis Albert said:

Arsenal a good place to develop? May have misunderstood but Arsenal have a poor record in the last decade or so in developing promising young players. In fact they have generally gone downhill since the American takeover. Look very unlikely now to qualify for CL yet again. Arteta may not last much longer. Not a happy club after last two results.

No, that's why I said he's in a good place just now to develop, sorry

[soonbe110]

On 17/05/2022 at 18:56, Francis Albert said:

Arsenal a good place to develop? May have misunderstood but Arsenal have a poor record in the last decade or so in developing promising young players. In fact they have generally gone downhill since the American takeover. Look very unlikely now to qualify for CL yet again. Arteta may not last much longer. Not a happy club after last two results.

“Arteta may not last much longer” -really? Only two weeks after signing a three year contract extension - That would really be Hibs behaviour

Need to keep up Francis    

[Francis Albert]

58 minutes ago, Robbies Tackle said:

No, that's why I said he's in a good place just now to develop, sorry

OK. Misunderstood. 

Beats Brentford certainly!

[Francis Albert]

45 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

“Arteta may not last much longer” -really? Only two weeks after signing a three year contract extension - That would really be Hibs behaviour

Need to keep up Francis    

No it is just football behaviour. He won't survive many more results and performances like the last two.

[BackOfTheNet]

Why do I get the feeling from this thread that quite a few have been told from (or via others) the same “impeccable” source that the Hickey deal was abysmal for us, are now getting a wee bit defensive in trying to denounce the EEN story saying it’s over 10%? None of us will actually know anything until financial reports come in after Hickey transfers somewhere (if he does). Not sure why people want to tie themselves to a mast on this one.

[Unknown user]

12 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

No it is just football behaviour. He won't survive many more results and performances like the last two.

 

Mid season you might have a point, but they've got one game left this season.

[karipidis]

After Hibs bleating on for years about the sell on for McGinn, is it possible that they will see nothing for that and we will get £1-2 million for Hickey? I think McGinn is maybe a level above for Villa but cant see any big club forking out the money that will be required to sign him, and could see him staying at Villa for a few more years. 

[Victorian]

Season tickets

FoH

Benefactors

Group stage European football

7 figure sell-on windfall

 

Oh dear.

 

[RustyRightPeg]

14 minutes ago, karipidis said:

After Hibs bleating on for years about the sell on for McGinn, is it possible that they will see nothing for that and we will get £1-2 million for Hickey? I think McGinn is maybe a level above for Villa but cant see any big club forking out the money that will be required to sign him, and could see him staying at Villa for a few more years. 

His level has dropped this season. Coincidentally I think it’s since Gerrard has arrived. 
 

His ceiling is probably a £20m move now. 

[comradejambo]

5 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

His level has dropped this season. Coincidentally I think it’s since Gerrard has arrived. 
 

His ceiling is probably a £20m move now. 

Taking maroon tinted specs not sure I agree with that…. Think if he was available to 50million would not surprise me if a utd or spurs came in for him. However, I think Gerrard wants to build a team around him at Villa and make him captain which doesn’t indicate he’s going anywhere soon

Edited May 19, 2022 by comradejambo

[RustyRightPeg]

7 minutes ago, comradejambo said:

Taking maroon tinted specs not sure I agree with that…. Think if he was available to 50million would not surprise me if a utd or spurs came in for him. However, I think Gerrard wants to build a team around him at Villa and make him captain which doesn’t indicate he’s going anywhere soon

He’s not worth £50M on current form so I wouldn’t be surprised if Villa took that. 

[Tiger]

I know the money is crazy down there but no one is going to offer £50m for McGinn

[scott herbertson]

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1612684/Tottenham-transfer-news-Antonio-Conte-two-signings-John-McGinn-Aston-Villa

 

Today in the express (no figures mentioned)

Edited May 19, 2022 by scott herbertson

[Naisys Tackle]

16 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

OK. Misunderstood. 

Beats Brentford certainly!

No worries

[John Rambo]

2 hours ago, Victorian said:

Season tickets

FoH

Benefactors

Group stage European football

7 figure sell-on windfall

 

Oh dear.

 

Amazingly just had this conversation with my brother over the phone.

 

My thought was, before we kick a footbal next season, we could be looking at roughly £10M.

 

Over £2M for 3rd place this season.

Prize money from the Scottish cup run, up to £1M?

Roughly £3M for Euro league.

TV money etc from Europe, up to £1M.

Up to £3M from the Hickey sell on.

 

Add in the season tickets, money for points gained in Europe etc and we are in clover!

 

We spend it wisely, I said, and we increase the gap below us. Perhaps we even close the gap upwards? That is the next big callenge as our pennies will have to work 7 or 8 times harder than the uglies.

 

Still, exciting times ahead for us.

[FarmerTweedy]

12 hours ago, Victorian said:

Season tickets

FoH

Benefactors

Group stage European football

7 figure sell-on windfall

 

Oh dear.

 

It's tough being us!

 

[FarmerTweedy]

11 hours ago, scott herbertson said:

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1612684/Tottenham-transfer-news-Antonio-Conte-two-signings-John-McGinn-Aston-Villa

 

Today in the express (no figures mentioned)

Is there also a story in today's express saying we're in for the worst winter in living memory?  Or is it too early for that?

 

Point being, if the express says something is going to happen, it probably isn't! 

[FarmerTweedy]

9 hours ago, John Rambo said:

Amazingly just had this conversation with my brother over the phone.

 

My thought was, before we kick a footbal next season, we could be looking at roughly £10M.

 

Over £2M for 3rd place this season.

Prize money from the Scottish cup run, up to £1M?

Roughly £3M for Euro league.

TV money etc from Europe, up to £1M.

Up to £3M from the Hickey sell on.

 

Add in the season tickets, money for points gained in Europe etc and we are in clover!

 

We spend it wisely, I said, and we increase the gap below us. Perhaps we even close the gap upwards? That is the next big callenge as our pennies will have to work 7 or 8 times harder than the uglies.

 

Still, exciting times ahead for us.

We'll have to wait and see re the Hickey sell-on, there's no guarantee he'll actually be sold this summer, never mind how much it would actually make us.  Also, with the prize money for third in the league, I think the budget for this season will have factored in at least a top 6 finish and us getting a substantial wedge of that anyway, so it won't all be 'extra' money for us to spend in future.  So it might be more like £6m that we've got in additional money to spend over and above the sort of income/budget level we've been used to.  And I think we'll see that money spread over two or three years in case we don't get it again any time soon.  It should still be sufficient to improve the squad in a manner that keeps us comfortably ahead of the rest though!

 

Things could well get even better over the next two or three years though. For the last several years, FoH money has gone to working capital for the club in the early days post-admin, then helping to fund the new main stand, then paying back Ann Budge, and most recently it's probably helped plug the income gap caused by covid and our demotion. Benefactor donations have probably been doing much the same, recently.  Now, we're probably getting close to the point where there are few, if any, significant 'exceptional items' to be covered, and a substantial portion, if not all, of FoH and benefactor contributions will be available to boost the playing staff budget further. If that is the case, and if we are able to get group stage European football for another two or three seasons after next season, we could have a financial advantage over the clubs below us that might feel to them not much smaller than the financial gap we'll still feel to the arsecheeks! 

[Norm]

2 hours ago, FarmerTweedy said:

We'll have to wait and see re the Hickey sell-on, there's no guarantee he'll actually be sold this summer, never mind how much it would actually make us.  Also, with the prize money for third in the league, I think the budget for this season will have factored in at least a top 6 finish and us getting a substantial wedge of that anyway, so it won't all be 'extra' money for us to spend in future.  So it might be more like £6m that we've got in additional money to spend over and above the sort of income/budget level we've been used to.  And I think we'll see that money spread over two or three years in case we don't get it again any time soon.  It should still be sufficient to improve the squad in a manner that keeps us comfortably ahead of the rest though!

 

Things could well get even better over the next two or three years though. For the last several years, FoH money has gone to working capital for the club in the early days post-admin, then helping to fund the new main stand, then paying back Ann Budge, and most recently it's probably helped plug the income gap caused by covid and our demotion. Benefactor donations have probably been doing much the same, recently.  Now, we're probably getting close to the point where there are few, if any, significant 'exceptional items' to be covered, and a substantial portion, if not all, of FoH and benefactor contributions will be available to boost the playing staff budget further. If that is the case, and if we are able to get group stage European football for another two or three seasons after next season, we could have a financial advantage over the clubs below us that might feel to them not much smaller than the financial gap we'll still feel to the arsecheeks! 

I can't see Anderson et al continuing to throw money at us. I get the feeling that once FoH money and our usual turnover is keeping us financially balanced, we'll see that source of funds drying up. They'll maybe donate into the occasional big investments (our own training facilities which I believe is a definite, for example) and I think they may well chuck money at the women's team, but I can't see them bankrolling signings for ever. 

 

All in my opinion of course. 

Edited May 19, 2022 by Norm

[johnking123]

Anderson will still help us complete the stadium. 

 

[Sooks]

21 minutes ago, johnking123 said:

Anderson will still help us complete the stadium. 

 

Just as good as giving us transfer funds really if it allows us to use all the other cash for the team ……………. once the stadium and other infrastructure improvements are complete they will generate more money for us in the future too

[scott herbertson]

10 hours ago, FarmerTweedy said:

Is there also a story in today's express saying we're in for the worst winter in living memory?  Or is it too early for that?

 

Point being, if the express says something is going to happen, it probably isn't! 

 

 

Point taken!

[scott herbertson]

10 hours ago, FarmerTweedy said:

We'll have to wait and see re the Hickey sell-on, there's no guarantee he'll actually be sold this summer, never mind how much it would actually make us.  Also, with the prize money for third in the league, I think the budget for this season will have factored in at least a top 6 finish and us getting a substantial wedge of that anyway, so it won't all be 'extra' money for us to spend in future.  So it might be more like £6m that we've got in additional money to spend over and above the sort of income/budget level we've been used to.  And I think we'll see that money spread over two or three years in case we don't get it again any time soon.  It should still be sufficient to improve the squad in a manner that keeps us comfortably ahead of the rest though!

 

Things could well get even better over the next two or three years though. For the last several years, FoH money has gone to working capital for the club in the early days post-admin, then helping to fund the new main stand, then paying back Ann Budge, and most recently it's probably helped plug the income gap caused by covid and our demotion. Benefactor donations have probably been doing much the same, recently.  Now, we're probably getting close to the point where there are few, if any, significant 'exceptional items' to be covered, and a substantial portion, if not all, of FoH and benefactor contributions will be available to boost the playing staff budget further. If that is the case, and if we are able to get group stage European football for another two or three seasons after next season, we could have a financial advantage over the clubs below us that might feel to them not much smaller than the financial gap we'll still feel to the arsecheeks! 

 

 

Good post - I agree with you we shouldn't get carried away or expect million pound players (on huge wages, people often forget) to be pitching up this season. Getting third again next year would be huge and would stretch the gap and should be the main target IMO, along with winning one of those cups. 

[FarmerTweedy]

15 hours ago, Norm said:

I can't see Anderson et al continuing to throw money at us. I get the feeling that once FoH money and our usual turnover is keeping us financially balanced, we'll see that source of funds drying up. They'll maybe donate into the occasional big investments (our own training facilities which I believe is a definite, for example) and I think they may well chuck money at the women's team, but I can't see them bankrolling signings for ever. 

 

All in my opinion of course. 

I think you're right it won't go on forever, but the club did say recently in the annual report and accounts that they'd received assurances from the benefactors that support would continue for at least 5 years IIRC! 

[FarmerTweedy]

7 hours ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

Good post - I agree with you we shouldn't get carried away or expect million pound players (on huge wages, people often forget) to be pitching up this season. Getting third again next year would be huge and would stretch the gap and should be the main target IMO, along with winning one of those cups. 

Yeah, consistently being top 3 over the next few years is really important, and hopefully would let us gradually pull further away from the pack. 

[Francis Albert]

12 hours ago, johnking123 said:

Anderson will still help us complete the stadium. 

 

What is there to complete except deciding what to do with the second floor and fitting it out? Not talking a huge sum 

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, FarmerTweedy said:

Yeah, consistently being top 3 over the next few years is really important, and hopefully would let us gradually pull further away from the pack. 

If we consistently are in the top 3 over the next few years we would have already pulled away from the pack. And not that gradually either.

[chrisyboy7]

we need to spend the whole lot wisely and get into the europa league when it will generate an additional 2m on top of whats guaranteed 

[briever]

37 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

If we consistently are in the top 3 over the next few years we would have already pulled away from the pack. And not that gradually either.

 

This is why next season is so vital - we MUST get it right.  We have the chance to really move on now, fan owned, professionally managed - now is the time for us to finally fulfil the potential our club has always had.

[Sooks]

48 minutes ago, chrisyboy7 said:

we need to spend the whole lot wisely and get into the europa league when it will generate an additional 2m on top of whats guaranteed 

We absolutely should spend it all I agree no point in keeping any thing back and getting taxed on it 

[Dick Dastardly]

21 hours ago, FarmerTweedy said:

We'll have to wait and see re the Hickey sell-on, there's no guarantee he'll actually be sold this summer, never mind how much it would actually make us.  Also, with the prize money for third in the league, I think the budget for this season will have factored in at least a top 6 finish and us getting a substantial wedge of that anyway, so it won't all be 'extra' money for us to spend in future.  So it might be more like £6m that we've got in additional money to spend over and above the sort of income/budget level we've been used to.  And I think we'll see that money spread over two or three years in case we don't get it again any time soon.  It should still be sufficient to improve the squad in a manner that keeps us comfortably ahead of the rest though!

 

Things could well get even better over the next two or three years though. For the last several years, FoH money has gone to working capital for the club in the early days post-admin, then helping to fund the new main stand, then paying back Ann Budge, and most recently it's probably helped plug the income gap caused by covid and our demotion. Benefactor donations have probably been doing much the same, recently.  Now, we're probably getting close to the point where there are few, if any, significant 'exceptional items' to be covered, and a substantial portion, if not all, of FoH and benefactor contributions will be available to boost the playing staff budget further. If that is the case, and if we are able to get group stage European football for another two or three seasons after next season, we could have a financial advantage over the clubs below us that might feel to them not much smaller than the financial gap we'll still feel to the arsecheeks! 

We wont get the European money straight away either, will we? I always presumed that would be distributed at the end of the competition 

[Fxxx the SPFL]

8 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

We wont get the European money straight away either, will we? I always presumed that would be distributed at the end of the competition 

I would think that when the group stage finishes November we should receive monies after that not sure what happens after that in the knockout stages assuming we qualify from the group 🙏

[JimmyCant]

35 minutes ago, Sooks said:

We absolutely should spend it all I agree no point in keeping any thing back and getting taxed on it 

Its trading revenue. It’s taxable whether you spend it or save it 

[Dick Dastardly]

1 hour ago, **** the SPFL said:

I would think that when the group stage finishes November we should receive monies after that not sure what happens after that in the knockout stages assuming we qualify from the group 🙏

Just give us the winners prize pot now, I've got a good feeling about this

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

57 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Its trading revenue. It’s taxable whether you spend it or save it 

It may well be classed as trading revenue, or turnover, but neither revenue nor turnover is taxable, it's only profit that gets taxed - after all sales and purchases are accounted for in the profit and loss accounts, as is the case with all businesses.  

[Sooks]

47 minutes ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said:

It may well be classed as trading revenue, or turnover, but neither revenue nor turnover is taxable, it's only profit that gets taxed - after all sales and purchases are accounted for in the profit and loss accounts, as is the case with all businesses.  

So anything we carry over without spending gets taxed does it not

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

Its trading revenue. It’s taxable whether you spend it or save it 

Only profit is taxed nor Revenue.  We have had a lot of capes in last few years so cap allowances and trading losses in early years and covid will remove most of tax liability. 

[soonbe110]

Just now, soonbe110 said:

Only profit is taxed nor Revenue.  We have had a lot of capes in last few years so cap allowances and trading losses in early years and covid will remove most of tax liability. 

Capex not capes 

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

18 minutes ago, Sooks said:

So anything we carry over without spending gets taxed does it not

There's a bit more to it than that, various expenses and allowances, but basically, yes. Ground improvements, though, do not come out of income as that is an asset, so spending on assets doesn't reduce the profit and so doesn't reduce the tax bill.

[Sooks]

Just now, AllyjamboDerbyshire said:

There's a bit more to it than that, various expenses and allowances, but basically, yes. Ground improvements, though, do not come out of income as that is an asset, so spending on assets doesn't reduce the profit and so doesn't reduce the tax bill.

That is what I thought so the best thing to do since Anderson will be putting his money towards infra structure is for us to spend every other penny we make on having the best possible football team we can so that it makes more money season on season 

[FarmerTweedy]

3 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

We wont get the European money straight away either, will we? I always presumed that would be distributed at the end of the competition 

Tbh, I've no idea when the money is distributed, but even if it is at the end of the season, there's plenty of income that comes in at the start, eg season ticket money, or phased through the season, eg SPFL money, that we'll be able to spend some of the European money on next season.