*** Other Scottish football match thread, for anyone who gives a ****

[RustyRightPeg]

1 hour ago, JimmyCant said:

It’s more when they haven’t got the ball, they just don’t take a shape to win it back. Celtic saw it. Ross co saw it and Dundee saw it. Also, psychologically, they went on that great run when Clement first came in but still couldn’t shake off Celtic and build a gap. They look tired as I think Clement beasts them in training and during the season isn’t really best practice to do that so maybe that’s catching up with them.

 

Long to Bakayoko (another player of theirs I really like) who was either winning it and when he wasn’t the Dundee midfield we’re first to the second ball. They play their full backs miles up the park, even without the ball they still sit high up and rarely invert to recover possession. Okay we don’t have a Bakayoko to fight their centre backs but we’ve got clever players who can get at them. They’ve got an arrogance about them defensively that isn’t justified by their quality and their actions. I don’t think Goldson is the cleverest centre back in the world either .

 

It’s Rangers up front we need to worry about. They’ll have Silva Sima Matondo and Mcausland, all very quick in wide areas so we’ll probably need to play a back 3 to help out Atkinson (and Cochrane to a lesser extent) If we’re going to lose it’ll be those 4 who hurt us.

 

You've nailed it. All 3 county goals were counters. I think it's the second, the lad taps it in at the back post and a zoomed out angle shows Barisic just passing the half way line after taking the corner a good 20 seconds earlier.

 

Down the sides with pace is where we get them on Sunday.

[kingantti1874]

1 hour ago, Rudi5kaceldream1ng said:

Eh??? 

 

Given I remember clearly the 90s.. I'm just going to dissect your drivel somewhat...

 

Lets see-colin cameron? Signed from 1st division raith rovers. Neil mccann? Signed from 1st division dundee. David weir? Signed from 1st division Falkirk. Gary naismith? Was a ******* hearts youth academy prospect. 

 

As for flogel and Adam signed from clubs we could still sign from today. 

 

So no idea what you're slavering on about. You're claiming hearts couldn't sign Scottish prospects form the bleeding Scottish championship today? 

 

Complete garbage take. 

I’ve never interacted with you so not sure why the aggression but now it my turn to correct your “drivel” and overly simple position.  
 

If a player of Neil McCann’s talent were available today, a guy of that talent he likely would never have been at Dundee for us to sign. He’d have been hoovered into an English academy system at a young age.  To buy a prime McCann would cost 8 figures + these days and he’d command wages commensurate with that number.

 

Colin Cameron - see above. Every bit as good as John McGinn is now at a far earlier stage in his career. 
 

David Weir.  We kept David weir for 4 years.  To but David Weir quality player now? What £30,0000,000 maybe? Unbelievable player.
 

Stephane Adam.  We were paying stef £10k per week when we signed him. What is £10k per week in today’s money ? 4/5 times that? 

if we did luckily manage to find / secure a real top player, we’d lose him immediately - see Aaron Hickey if you want an example 

 

of course we could still buy from the Scottish championship but that’s not the point!  (Though I’m not sure we could buy an Austrian international with 30* caps or a striker who regularly started in the French top division  )

 

It’s got nothing to do with “what” club we can attract players from.  The level of player in the championship and available to hearts isn’t what it was either, the standard has slipped across the board  - it’s not even remotely close.

 

There is NO way whatsoever any of the players I mentioned would be at Hearts if playing today.  That quality is miles out of our reach 

Edited April 18 by kingantti1874

[Bazzas right boot]

3 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

Agreed, Thing is when they had those players we had Cameron, McCann, Weir, Naismith, Adam, Flogel. We couldn’t get near one of those player now either.  The hearts 1998 team would comfortably win the league.

 

Celtic couldn’t sign a Van Hoojdonk, Larson,  a cadete, a paulo di Canio either.

 

what you are observing is the material decline in Scottish football. But it think you are correct in saying it’s impacted the huns the most.

 

 

To an extent, but  think we can still sign players from Raith, Falkirk, Dundee etc and Naismith was from our youth, but competition for these types  has widened.

 

Celtic and Rangers had world class or near world class players at their peak - no chance now.

 

It's affected the OF way more and Rangers more than celtic.

Edited April 18 by Bazzas right boot

[JimmyCant]

39 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

I’ve never interacted with you so not sure why the aggression but now it my turn to correct your “drivel” and overly simple position.  
 

If a player of Neil McCann’s talent were available today, a guy of that talent he likely would never have been at Dundee for us to sign. He’d have been hoovered into an English academy system at a young age.  To buy a prime McCann would cost 8 figures + these days and he’d command wages commensurate with that number.

 

Colin Cameron - see above. Every bit as good as John McGinn is now at a far earlier stage in his career. 
 

David Weir.  We kept David weir for 4 years.  To but David Weir quality player now? What £30,0000,000 maybe? Unbelievable player.
 

Stephane Adam.  We were paying stef £10k per week when we signed him. What is £10k per week in today’s money ? 4/5 times that? 

if we did luckily manage to find / secure a real top player, we’d lose him immediately - see Aaron Hickey if you want an example 

 

of course we could still buy from the Scottish championship but that’s not the point!  (Though I’m not sure we could buy an Austrian international with 30* caps or a striker who regularly started in the French top division  )

 

It’s got nothing to do with “what” club we can attract players from.  The level of player in the championship and available to hearts isn’t what it was either, the standard has slipped across the board  - it’s not even remotely close.

 

There is NO way whatsoever any of the players I mentioned would be at Hearts if playing today.  That quality is miles out of our reach 

Agree in principal with most of that. The money swilling about English football ensures our quality incoming has a ceiling and no longevity should we pick up a gem (like Hickey)

 

JJ’s 1998 team standard would thrash the current team and go very VERY close to winning the league. The 05/06 team would win the league by a distance and probably go unbeaten over the course of a season (my opinion of course given these are hypotheticals before anyone jumps all over that statement)

Edited April 18 by JimmyCant

[skacel103]

40 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

 

You've nailed it. All 3 county goals were counters. I think it's the second, the lad taps it in at the back post and a zoomed out angle shows Barisic just passing the half way line after taking the corner a good 20 seconds earlier.

 

Down the sides with pace is where we get them on Sunday.

Rangers will be pressing us from the start. There fans will be demanding it. Youll hear boos with any side passing slow build up from them. We need to defend well get through the 1st half and do like you said above. 

[kingantti1874]

7 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

To an extent, but  think we can still sign players from Raith, Falkirk, Dundee etc and Naismith was from our youth, but competition for these types  has widened.

 

Celtic and Rangers had world class or near world class players at their peak - no chance now.

 

It's affected the OF way more and Rangers more than celtic.

 it’s not about the club we can sign from.  It’s the quality of player we can attract and retain. 
 

put simply, you are spot on to say rangers and Celtic cannot attract the same talent they did 25 years ago.  Neither can we, neither can Aberdeen or Hibs or Dundee United.  The standard of football has slipped across the board in Scotland. 
 

it has of course impacted some clubs more than others.  The higher they were the further they’ve had to fall. 

Edited April 18 by kingantti1874

[kingantti1874]

7 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Agree in principal with most of that. The money swilling about English football ensures our quality incoming has a ceiling and no longevity should we pick up a gem (like Hickey)

 

JJ’s 1998 team standard would thrash the current team and go very VERY close to winning the league. The 05/06 team would win the league by a distance and probably go unbeaten over the course of a season (my opinion of course given these are hypotheticals before anyone jumps all over that statement)

I’ll go further .  The 1998 hearts team and the 2005 hearts team would have won the 23/24 league title comfortably. 

[JimmyCant]

12 minutes ago, skacel103 said:

Rangers will be pressing us from the start. There fans will be demanding it. Youll hear boos with any side passing slow build up from them. We need to defend well get through the 1st half and do like you said above. 

They expected a reaction after only just avoiding a hammering from Celtic. Didn’t happen. They expected a reaction after the loss to RC. Didn’t get it. They were poor last night. Disorganised and tired looking. If they turn up in that form on Sunday (no guarantee they will of course) we’ve a very good chance of beating them if we’re set up properly, fully concentrate throughout and manage the game in phases. The only team they have beaten for weeks now is Hibs. In all honesty they should have had the league wrapped up by now but they’ve slumped. If that doesn’t give us hope, nothing will

Edited April 18 by JimmyCant

[JimmyCant]

3 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

I’ll go further .  The 1998 hearts team and the 2005 hearts team would have won the 23/24 league title comfortably. 

Well I’m not sure the 98 team had strength in depth (they’d have won the league in 98 if they had) Even the 85/86 team would win the current league .

[Hansel]

9 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

I’ll go further .  The 1998 hearts team and the 2005 hearts team would have won the 23/24 league title comfortably. 

At a canter 👍

 

 

 

[kingantti1874]

14 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Well I’m not sure the 98 team had strength in depth (they’d have won the league in 98 if they had) Even the 85/86 team would win the current league .

we finished 7 points behind a far stronger rangers team and a far stronger Celtic team.  Numbers and would have won the league in 1998 has Cameron not been injured.   Still I think we’d have had enough in 23/24

 

anyway.  All a pipe dream

 

Edited April 18 by kingantti1874

[JimmyCant]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

we finished 7 points behind a far stronger rangers team and a far stronger Celtic team.  We did suffer in numbers and would have won the league in 1998 has Cameron not been injured.  

 

anyway.  All a pipe dream

 

Yep. Sticks in the craw a bit. The close shaves and the missed opportunities and we’re no closer ourselves these days despite the drop in standards across the board because it effects us as much as them. One day though mate, one day !

[Chong]

I seen the second half. If that's my team playing in a must win match I'd be raging with the performance. They did not look to have any intensity or direction and were totally devoid of any individuality and creativity. We must be confident on Sunday of getting the result, I certainly am. Just avoid giving up a silly goal and I'm certain the won't trouble us anywhere near enough. They've only beat Hibs in their last 8 games.

Let's do this, gorgie rulez.

[Bazzas right boot]

29 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

 it’s not about the club we can sign from.  It’s the quality of player we can attract and retain. 
 

put simply, you are spot on to say rangers and Celtic cannot attract the same talent they did 25 years ago.  Neither can we, neither can Aberdeen or Hibs or Dundee United.  The standard of football has slipped across the board in Scotland. 
 

it has of course impacted some clubs more than others.  The higher they were the further they’ve had to fall. 

 

Keeping players is very similar tbh, if they play well they'll **** of at the end of their contract or we'll be forced to sell.

 

The likes of Mcann, Naismith,  Weir, wallace all ****ed off, same with Berra and Driver etc

That hasn't changed,  now it's Souttar, Gino, Beni, Shankland.

Our quality is perhaps a little bit lower,  but it's hard to gauge where as the OF appeal is now much lower.

 

For Hearts,  I think we are in a better position than that of the late 90's and 00's in teems of recruitment, however the challenges are similar. 

 

Rangers aren't getting  near a Gazza, gatusso, van Brockhurst,  Dutch brothers, Negri, laudrop etc ever again.

 

I'm confident we'll still get good players from the lower end epl championship and 1st division, the better players from rivals and the odd gem from abroad. 

We are actually doing that now tbh, the challenges in keeping them remain the same since post Bosman.

 

The vlad year's ofc is our outlier.

 

 

Anyway,  my point was da peepul haven't realised this yet, they think they're a great pull and don't realise that the likes of Bournemouth are above them in the pecking order now.

 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

16 minutes ago, Chong said:

I seen the second half. If that's my team playing in a must win match I'd be raging with the performance. They did not look to have any intensity or direction and were totally devoid of any individuality and creativity. We must be confident on Sunday of getting the result, I certainly am. Just avoid giving up a silly goal and I'm certain the won't trouble us anywhere near enough. They've only beat Hibs in their last 8 games.

Let's do this, gorgie rulez.

 

Dundee are a decent side. As we know.

 

When discussing the OF the media often  ignore the other side almost completely,  it's a bug bear of mine.

 

It's almost a shock if the opposition play well , don't roll over and play the scripted role of cannon fodder.

 

 

Tbf, kris boyd was complimentary of Dundee despite the others best efforts to focus on rangers last night.

 

 

 

[kingantti1874]

9 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Keeping players is very similar tbh, if they play well they'll **** of at the end of their contract or we'll be forced to sell.

 

The likes of Mcann, Naismith,  Weir, wallace all ****ed off, same with Berra and Driver etc

That hasn't changed,  now it's Souttar, Gino, Beni, Shankland.

Our quality is perhaps a little bit lower,  but it's hard to gauge where as the OF appeal is now much lower.

 

For Hearts,  I think we are in a better position than that of the late 90's and 00's in teems of recruitment, however the challenges are similar. 

 

Rangers aren't getting  near a Gazza, gatusso, van Brockhurst,  Dutch brothers, Negri, laudrop etc ever again.

 

I'm confident we'll still get good players from the lower end epl championship and 1st division, the better players from rivals and the odd gem from abroad. 

We are actually doing that now tbh, the challenges in keeping them remain the same since post Bosman.

 

The vlad year's ofc is our outlier.

 

 

Anyway,  my point was da peepul haven't realised this yet, they think they're a great pull and don't realise that the likes of Bournemouth are above them in the pecking order now.

 

 

 

without doubt we are wealthier now, we are better run, we have more money, we spend more money on the pitch 
 

BUT

 

we get less for our money. The 1998 hearts team would batter this hearts team out of sight. Imo only.  2 players from this squad would get in the 1998 squad.  Gordon and Shanks. 
 

You are 100% right about rangers and their fans , but we also had more pull than Bournemouth 25 years ago. Boils my piss how far Scottish football has fallen.

[Chambie15]

14 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

Luke McCowan tonight. Absolute stand out. Best player on the park by a distance. If we’ve got even a sniff of a chance of getting him we should move heaven and earth to get it done. Dundee are the best non OF side we’ve played this season and there’s 2/3 of their players we should be looking at seriously

 

Rangers tonight - Noticeably Leggy. Full of decent players but zero cohesion. Even the pundits struggle to tell you what they’re about tactically. Quite a bit better than us if they click and they’ve got scary pace in the wide areas. Very vulnerable on this sort of form though. We’ve got a decent chance here but we need to get at them right from the start like Dundee did tonight

Just watched the highlights and you’re spot on JC. McGowan was fantastic (good post match interview too). He’s a player all right and having watched him against us home and away, I’d have him in a heartbeat. However, methinks others more in the know than me will also have him blinking on their radar …

[Bazzas right boot]

32 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

without doubt we are wealthier now, we are better run, we have more money, we spend more money on the pitch 
 

BUT

 

we get less for our money. The 1998 hearts team would batter this hearts team out of sight. Imo only.  2 players from this squad would get in the 1998 squad.  Gordon and Shanks. 
 

You are 100% right about rangers and their fans , but we also had more pull than Bournemouth 25 years ago. Boils my piss how far Scottish football has fallen.

 

 

Nostalgia does funny things to the mind tbh.

The 98 Hearts team was utter shite the season after, this Hearts team looks like having a 3rd, 4th, 3rd behind it.

 

Imo we are witnessing the best Hearts  side since the 80's.

 

No idea if the 98 Hearts side would batter this side, we never will.

 

[Ricardo Quaresma]

7 hours ago, leipzig76 said:

A couple of posts from Bears den

 

If we ever needed a result the team I’d pick to play is Hearts

 

We we are a mess. This team is broken.
Hearts are favourites for this weekend.

 

 

 So, they think mibbes aye,Mibbes naw.................... I think aye !

 

We won't beat celtic for them again unless they are beaten on Sunday and I assume that they get this notion

[kingantti1874]

13 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

Nostalgia does funny things to the mind tbh.

The 98 Hearts team was utter shite the season after, this Hearts team looks like having a 3rd, 4th, 3rd behind it.

 

Imo we are witnessing the best Hearts  side since the 80's.

 

No idea if the 98 Hearts side would batter this side, we never will.

 

 

They were  shite in a vastly stronger league.  
 

you made a very valid and accurate point about the quality of players the huns had then and now, yet for some reason don’t believe hearts and every other club haven’t suffered from same problem to varying degrees.  

 

You genuinely believe that Scottish football is as strong.  Good for you Baz.  I’ll have some of what your smoking 

[JimmyCant]

20 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

 

 

Imo we are witnessing the best Hearts  side since the 80's.

 

 

 

I’m going to assume you were in a coma during 2005/05

[Mikey1874]

 

[Bad Religion]

11 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I’m going to assume you were in a coma during 2005/05

He started watching football in 2014. 

[Bazzas right boot]

54 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I’m going to assume you were in a coma during 2005/05

 

Even that team never managed such consistency, although that was a stand out, individual season. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ricardo Quaresma]

3 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

Even that team never managed such consistency, although that was a stand out, individual season.

 

We need 4 wins + 1 draw, or 5 wins, to better that Season numerically

 

Then there's the Big Cup

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, kingantti1874 said:

 

They were  shite in a vastly stronger league.  
 

you made a very valid and accurate point about the quality of players the huns had then and now, yet for some reason don’t believe hearts and every other club haven’t suffered from same problem to varying degrees.  

 

You genuinely believe that Scottish football is as strong.  Good for you Baz.  I’ll have some of what your smoking 

 

As per you jump to conclusions and get all excited, no grey area with you.

 

That is not what I've said at all.

 

I don't think our market for players has changed that much since 98, although there is more competition. 

I have no idea if the 98 would batter this team, it's a childish thought and cannot ever be determined,  it's a poor place to try and win this argument you've created.

 

The transfer market Rangers  and the OF are shopping in is of a massively reduced quality, celtic and rangers had elite players in their sides- some at peak age , they are a bit of that now.

I've gave big examples of that.

They are shopping in a vastly inferior market, ours is far less obvious if it is lower in quality.i can see arguments for both opinions,  if folk want to discuss that.

 

imo We are still shopping in the same market and although the competition is stronger,  we as a club are in a better position than 98 in terms of finance which directly impacts our ability to attract players.

 

Scottish football is down the toilet,  has been for 2/3 decades but imo our position to attract players or not hasn't changed too much ( vlad years apart).

 

 

 

 

Edited April 18 by Bazzas right boot

[Bazzas right boot]

7 minutes ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

We need 4 wins + 1 draw, or 5 wins, to better that Season numerically

 

Then there's the Big Cup

 

Yip, we aren't far-off it and that's on the back of 3rd and 4th place, if we manage 3rd or 4th again next season then this era of Hearts is better than 98, we were very inconsistent.

 

In fact it would be the best since the 60's, just need a trophy or 3 and better our recent narrow final defeats.

 

 

[JimmyCant]

22 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Yip, we aren't far-off it and that's on the back of 3rd and 4th place, if we manage 3rd or 4th again next season then this era of Hearts is better than 98, we were very inconsistent.

 

In fact it would be the best since the 60's, just need a trophy or 3 and better our recent narrow final defeats.

 

 

Sorry but you can run as many seasons of 3rd and 4th together as you want and call it consistency. (I call it expectation but whatever) but the 98 team are legends to a man. They won the Scottish cup for the first time in decades, beating one of the best Rangers teams ever assembled in the process and going very close to winning the league until we lost just a wee bit of impetus towards the end.

 

Consistently achieving your expected position is just like it sounds. Pretty mundane without a trophy to go along with it

[Fozzyonthefence]

3 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

we finished 7 points behind a far stronger rangers team and a far stronger Celtic team.  Numbers and would have won the league in 1998 has Cameron not been injured.   Still I think we’d have had enough in 23/24

 

anyway.  All a pipe dream

 

Was Cameron out injured in 97/98?  I honestly can’t remember but he certainly played in the final.  He was injured most of 98/99 and was one of the main reasons we struggled so much (ironically once he returned our form improved so much that we would have won the league the season before with that end of season form). 
 

I always maintained that if Robbo had been a couple of years younger we would have won the league in 98.  Instead he was over the hill and loaned out to Dundee for a spell.  

[Bazzas right boot]

42 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Sorry but you can run as many seasons of 3rd and 4th together as you want and call it consistency. (I call it expectation but whatever) but the 98 team are legends to a man. They won the Scottish cup for the first time in decades, beating one of the best Rangers teams ever assembled in the process and going very close to winning the league until we lost just a wee bit of impetus towards the end.

 

Consistently achieving your expected position is just like it sounds. Pretty mundane without a trophy to go along with it

 

Unsure of your point tbh.

98 were legends,  your argueing with your self on this one.

 

We've won 3 major trophies in about 60 seasons, not every trophyless seasons was  mundane , so disagree strongly on that point.

 

If we finish  top 4 for 3 consecutive seasons, its maybe the 2nd time since the 60's we'd have done that so no idea why any Hearts fan would trivialise such consistency-  very strange to me.

 

Tbh, I've no idea why we're comparing the 98 team to this team either, even more confused why the 98 team is being used to discredit and play down the current team, why?

 

 

 

Edited April 18 by Bazzas right boot

[Daveandal]

It's really all depends on what we mean.

 

In terms of consistent league placing this is the best period for Hearts since the 50s. Therefore you could argue its the best Hearts team since the 50s.

 

However, I doubt when we are in our 90s having a dram we'll remember consistency.... we'll remember the teams that got so close to greatness 85/86.. and the ones that achieved it 97/98, 05/06 and 11/12. 

 

I'm loving Hearts right now. Its a Rollercoaster and the days or fighting for a draw at home to Hamilton might be around a corner but I have a wee feeling this team might... might... be one that is remembered. 

[Lambert Simnel]

9 minutes ago, Daveandal said:

It's really all depends on what we mean.

 

In terms of consistent league placing this is the best period for Hearts since the 50s. Therefore you could argue its the best Hearts team since the 50s.

 

However, I doubt when we are in our 90s having a dram we'll remember consistency.... we'll remember the teams that got so close to greatness 85/86.. and the ones that achieved it 97/98, 05/06 and 11/12. 

 

I'm loving Hearts right now. Its a Rollercoaster and the days or fighting for a draw at home to Hamilton might be around a corner but I have a wee feeling this team might... might... be one that is remembered. 

Well said.

[Skivingatwork]

1-0 Aberdeen with Miovski to score is 55/1 

 

Worth a shout?

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 hour ago, Daveandal said:

It's really all depends on what we mean.

 

In terms of consistent league placing this is the best period for Hearts since the 50s. Therefore you could argue its the best Hearts team since the 50s.

 

However, I doubt when we are in our 90s having a dram we'll remember consistency.... we'll remember the teams that got so close to greatness 85/86.. and the ones that achieved it 97/98, 05/06 and 11/12. 

 

I'm loving Hearts right now. Its a Rollercoaster and the days or fighting for a draw at home to Hamilton might be around a corner but I have a wee feeling this team might... might... be one that is remembered. 

Yeah I agree with most of that but and you can maybe argue about the period but you can’t argue it has been the best Hearts “team”  since the 1950s on the basis that we have had 3 different teams over the past 3 seasons and none of them have been anywhere near as good as the teams we had in 85/86, 96/98 or 05/06.  We have also had other numerous runners up finishes during that period.   As a team the last 3 seasons I’d say we’ve been distinctly average but with consistent league finishes. 

[Carter]

16 hours ago, DesertDawg said:

Neilson figured that out in the Championship game at Tynecastle a few years ago when he played Robbie Muirhead, yes, who now plays at Morton, right up against him and he got 2 goals.....in both cases with Tavernier posted missing somewhere upfield.

 

It's always surprised me how so few opposition managers have figured this out.

He's the biggest chancer I've seen in the Scottish game in many a year. Garbage defender who's got away with it because of the standard of this league. 

 

Highest goalscoring defender in Britain but how will he compare in the pantheon of Rangers captains. Right at the bottom in terms of tangible honours. His hangdog expression is priceless. Many of the Huns know he's a liability but overlook ot ordinarily when he's scoring against jobbers. How the mighty have fallen when that is the captain of Rangers. 

[kingantti1874]

4 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

As per you jump to conclusions and get all excited, no grey area with you.

 

That is not what I've said at all.

 

I don't think our market for players has changed that much since 98, although there is more competition. 

I have no idea if the 98 would batter this team, it's a childish thought and cannot ever be determined,  it's a poor place to try and win this argument you've created.

 

The transfer market Rangers  and the OF are shopping in is of a massively reduced quality, celtic and rangers had elite players in their sides- some at peak age , they are a bit of that now.

I've gave big examples of that.

They are shopping in a vastly inferior market, ours is far less obvious if it is lower in quality.i can see arguments for both opinions,  if folk want to discuss that.

 

imo We are still shopping in the same market and although the competition is stronger,  we as a club are in a better position than 98 in terms of finance which directly impacts our ability to attract players.

 

Scottish football is down the toilet,  has been for 2/3 decades but imo our position to attract players or not hasn't changed too much ( vlad years apart).

 

 

 

 

Having a respectful debate and you start with the personal slurs again.  No one got excited, but this is your MO isn’t it, you’d start a fight in an empty room if anyone so much as has an alternative view then go down the weak deflection route.  

 

Anyway, If you think Frankie Kent could lace David Weirs boots, or think Forrest is comparable to Mcannn, or think Devlin is comparable to Cameron or salvatori or Fulton, or Mackay comparable to Flogel then I think you’d be in an extremely small minority.  It’s your opinion which you are entitled to but it’s out there.

 

of course there are exceptions to that, I gave those examples but in general terms no we aren’t shopping in the same market ( you seem to interpet the same clubs as the same market but that’s not the point I’m making, we no longer have access to the same level of talent inside of Scotland as the level has fallen across the board , and as before no we wouldn’t be able to attract players of the quality  Adam or Flogel or Salvatori, wage inflation makes that impossible.  This level of player with that level of experience would be on multiples of our top wage and in the championship at a minimum.  
 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 18 by kingantti1874

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

Having a respectful debate and you start with the personal slurs again.  No one got excited, everyone I’m sure can read back,  but this is your MO isn’t it, you could start a fight in an empty room if anyone so much as has an alternative view then go down the deflection route.  

 

Anyway -If you think Frankie Kent could lace David Weirs boots, or think Forrest is comparable to Mcannn, or think Devlin is comparable to Cameron or salvatori or Fulton, or Mackay comparable to Flogel then I think you’d be in an extremely small minority.  

 

of course there are exceptions to that, I have those examples but in general terms we aren’t shopping in the same market, and we no longer have access to the same level of talent inside of Scotland even though we can still buy players from the same clubs, and as before no we wouldn’t be able to attract players of the quality  Adam or Flogel or salvatori, wage inflation makes that impossible.  This level of player would be on multiples of our top wage. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You've selected a few to suit your argument, I won't counter as the debate is pointless. 

We will never know and it's a strange debate, not one I intended.

 

I don't think our market has shrunk that much compared to 98, it has changed.

 

Rangers and the OF has shrunk significantly imo,  shopping a few levels lower.

 

[kingantti1874]

3 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

You've selected a few to suit your argument, I won't counter as the debate is pointless. 

We will never know and it's a strange debate, not one I intended.

 

I don't think our market has shrunk that much compared to 98, it has changed.

 

Rangers and the OF has shrunk significantly imo,  shopping a few levels lower.

 

I agree with you on that.   Can we leave it at that please. We can let others make their mind up. 
 

ps that’s what you do in a debate. Quote example to favour your arguement.  I’ve stated the exceptions I recognised. 

Edited April 18 by kingantti1874

[leipzig76]

6 hours ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

We won't beat celtic for them again unless they are beaten on Sunday and I assume that they get this notion

I get it....and I like it !!!

[Rudi5kaceldream1ng]

9 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

I’ve never interacted with you so not sure why the aggression but now it my turn to correct your “drivel” and overly simple position.  
 

If a player of Neil McCann’s talent were available today, a guy of that talent he likely would never have been at Dundee for us to sign. He’d have been hoovered into an English academy system at a young age.  To buy a prime McCann would cost 8 figures + these days and he’d command wages commensurate with that number.

 

Colin Cameron - see above. Every bit as good as John McGinn is now at a far earlier stage in his career. 
 

David Weir.  We kept David weir for 4 years.  To but David Weir quality player now? What £30,0000,000 maybe? Unbelievable player.
 

Stephane Adam.  We were paying stef £10k per week when we signed him. What is £10k per week in today’s money ? 4/5 times that? 

if we did luckily manage to find / secure a real top player, we’d lose him immediately - see Aaron Hickey if you want an example 

 

of course we could still buy from the Scottish championship but that’s not the point!  (Though I’m not sure we could buy an Austrian international with 30* caps or a striker who regularly started in the French top division  )

 

It’s got nothing to do with “what” club we can attract players from.  The level of player in the championship and available to hearts isn’t what it was either, the standard has slipped across the board  - it’s not even remotely close.

 

There is NO way whatsoever any of the players I mentioned would be at Hearts if playing today.  That quality is miles out of our reach 

I agree standards have slipped. 

 

I was more taking issue with the claim that hearts couldn't sign players from today's Scottish championship. 

 

Granted you weren't saying that. 

 

It's all ifs and buts, those players were Scottish 1st div players at the time though but yeah in today's game they wouldn't have been, they'd be English championship or celtic/rangers players. 

[Ricardo Quaresma]

Come on TF with this 98 / 06 team would beat the current team nonsense

 

Those teams were as close to the finished article as it gets and this Team can top both their ppg

 

The current team is yet to be fully assembled too

 

So, spare us the Ali / Tyson type debates eh?

[kingantti1874]

11 hours ago, Rudi5kaceldream1ng said:

I agree standards have slipped. 

 

I was more taking issue with the claim that hearts couldn't sign players from today's Scottish championship. 

 

Granted you weren't saying that. 

 

It's all ifs and buts, those players were Scottish 1st div players at the time though but yeah in today's game they wouldn't have been, they'd be English championship or celtic/rangers players. 

👍🏻

[TexasAndy]

I have slightly mixed emotions about the Celtic v Aberdeen semi.  A win for Celtic guarantees 3rd for Euro groups.  That of course would give us the scenario that we would have to beat both the uglies to win the cup.  Not impossible but hey ho.  An Aberdeen win tomorrow would dangle a really nice carrot as I think we would relish a Cup Final against the sheep.  That however comes with the danger of actually losing our auto group stage to the same team that screwed us last year.   Hearts v Aberdeen cup final?  Winner takes all?  Yes, bring it on.

[luckydug]

22 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

I’ve never interacted with you so not sure why the aggression but now it my turn to correct your “drivel” and overly simple position.  
 

If a player of Neil McCann’s talent were available today, a guy of that talent he likely would never have been at Dundee for us to sign. He’d have been hoovered into an English academy system at a young age.  To buy a prime McCann would cost 8 figures + these days and he’d command wages commensurate with that number.

 

Colin Cameron - see above. Every bit as good as John McGinn is now at a far earlier stage in his career. 
 

David Weir.  We kept David weir for 4 years.  To but David Weir quality player now? What £30,0000,000 maybe? Unbelievable player.
 

Stephane Adam.  We were paying stef £10k per week when we signed him. What is £10k per week in today’s money ? 4/5 times that? 

if we did luckily manage to find / secure a real top player, we’d lose him immediately - see Aaron Hickey if you want an example 

 

of course we could still buy from the Scottish championship but that’s not the point!  (Though I’m not sure we could buy an Austrian international with 30* caps or a striker who regularly started in the French top division  )

 

It’s got nothing to do with “what” club we can attract players from.  The level of player in the championship and available to hearts isn’t what it was either, the standard has slipped across the board  - it’s not even remotely close.

 

There is NO way whatsoever any of the players I mentioned would be at Hearts if playing today.  That quality is miles out of our reach 

10k per week in 1997 is worth 22.8k in todays money roughly 2.28 times as much.

We would be paying SA nearly 23k today.

[gregzy2k7]

19 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Holy smokes!! Had no idea our record was that good in 2024, That's some record btw, if we kept that up for a whole year, we could challenge for the title imo.

[Bazzas right boot]

17 hours ago, Rudi5kaceldream1ng said:

I agree standards have slipped. 

 

I was more taking issue with the claim that hearts couldn't sign players from today's Scottish championship. 

 

Granted you weren't saying that. 

 

It's all ifs and buts, those players were Scottish 1st div players at the time though but yeah in today's game they wouldn't have been, they'd be English championship or celtic/rangers players. 

 

Disagree tbh, championship clubs and the OF could still buy these players in 98.

These players weren't out of their reach, we just got in there, a bit like Shankland and Souttar.

 

If rangers or  English championship clubs wanted the likes of  Weir or Mcann direct from the club's we got them from in 98 they would have got them. They could still easily out bid us and pay more wages back then.

 

We taken the punt on them, developed them and then they were sold on.

 

Not many players are going  direct from Raith, Dundee etc to 1st team players in the English Championship  or the OF.

 

There is no way in hell  rangers or celtic  are signing guys at or near their peak like Larrson,  Di canio, Laudrup, Gazza, the Dutch players, Close, even Sutton. These types are miles out of reach now for the OF.

We can still attract the best players domestically from other sides - Souttar,  Dhanda,  Shankland, Neilson, Forrest,  Halkett,  Spittal etc prove that imo.

Even got youngsters from England's top flight  in Beni, Cochrane.

 

Hibs and Aberdeen have done this a well.

 

We can and are still attracting players from the same market,  although competition is maybe a bit more intense and if they do develop and play well  keeping them is almost impossible.

That also hasn't changed much tbh Either, it's just that they are pissing of to a widee range clubs

 

Celtic/ rangers are pushed that much out of the elite market they can't/ won't even pay  for Scottish talent- Doig, Hickey, Miginn being recent examples.

 

 

 

Edited April 19 by Bazzas right boot

[Des Lynam]

Robbo looking magnificent on BBC Scotland. 

[Daveandal]

3 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

Robbo looking magnificent on BBC Scotland. 

Very underrated pundit.

[neilnunb]

Good finish by Vaughan. 

[DesertDawg]

10 minutes ago, neilnunb said:

Good finish by Vaughan. 

Inverness 0 - 1 Raith Rovers. 

 

Probably doesn't help Rovers much as they seem destined for the play-offs anyway but makes the Inverness position that more precarious in the relegation run in.