SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[tcjambo]

2 minutes ago, kila said:

 

Really...?

 

Are you living in Scotland? I ask because the Scot Gov made it clear their exit plan from lockdown, and Nicola said today they could expedite if the R value stays low.

 

Which R value are you talking about - it needs to be a different levels in different populations? The R number on its own means sod all.

[tcjambo]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

Trying to lift the lockdown in a sensible, cautious way.

Nonsense - rabbit in the headlights. We'll see when the analysis is done later.

 

[redjambo]

23 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Not sure it's only 7, the asterisks denote less than 5 so could be more.

 

Spot on. Today's figures for Scotland as a whole are: 16 in ICU confirmed with coronavirus + 9 in ICU suspected with coronavirus.

[1874robbo]

29 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Of course. I just go by what scientists are saying. None of us have a clue. If it was that easy the pandemic never would have got this bad in the first place. That's also from over a month ago. A couple of Oxford or ex Oxford folk have been on the group advising the UK gov - which is widely considered to have done one of the worst jobs in the world at containing COVID. A characteristic of the UK approach - advised by them - has been to play everything down.

Exactly!! None of us have a clue yet you come on here spouting about this that and the other, 2nd waves, air travel.

you are guessing like everyone else.

Here is a thought, maybe just maybe the way to deal with this now is to try and get things back to normal? I’m guessing like you tbh but by the reading of your posts you’d have been quite happy for everyone to stay locked down indefinitely.

I assume your job is safe and you don’t work in the travel or hospitality sector so not too fussed about the economy on the front.

[Hood09]

Partick just giving up then ? 

[niblick1874]

43 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Thinking more some of the thousands of daily new cases in the UK and European countries and the thousands more people who have it but don't develop symptoms spreading it around again because they don't quarantine or follow guidelines, but yeah that too.

 

38 minutes ago, niblick1874 said:

 

Get those in charge of the protests to have protests on the planes. 

 

33 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Better yet, stop police forces from targeting and killing black people. Hey presto - no need for protests!

 

30 minutes ago, niblick1874 said:

 

How about going after those that employ and train the police. You are not worth it. 

 

13 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

OK. To be fair, I should have stopped when you suggested the black lives matter protests should be restricted to on planes.

 

11 minutes ago, niblick1874 said:

 

Stop lying. 

 

 

 

[Walter Bishop]

4 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

Those are for a flu with an infection rate (r) of 1 - 1.2.  This virus has an infection rate of 3.5 - 4.5 at it's worst.  This is not a flu it is more virulent and communicable than any flu known.  This has been a shit show in most counties since the get go.

Not disputing that. Was just pointing out people that are promoting a 2nd wave base it on the Spanish Flu, The same people who keep saying this is not a Flu. 

[Heartsofgold]

1 minute ago, tcjambo said:

Nonsense - rabbit in the headlights. We'll see when the analysis is done later.

 

 

It's not nonsense.  The FM has done almost everything correctly, the only issue being care homes but as other have said the benefit of hindsight and all that.  There are areas of England where the rate is edging back over 1.  This virus has an incubation period of 1-2 weeks so we will know in a couple of weeks if this weekends protests have caused a further spike/wave of infections.  Not every carrier is symptomatic and that in the major problem.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

12 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Nope, I think he meant "the UK as a whole".

 

We are doing well compared to England, that's for sure, but we are comparing ourselves against a nation, England, that has ended up with an atrocious number of deaths per size of population. Compared against other countries in Europe, the Scottish rate is also awful.

 

Not just compared to Europe. New Zealand, population similar to Scotland - 22 deaths. BC, Canada - population similar to Scotland, shares a border with one of the worst affected countries in the world and with several cities much denser and bigger than Scotland has - 165 deaths. These places did that by shutting down borders and parts of the economy much sooner than the UK and folk are still saying the shutdown doesn't work.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Walter Bishop said:

Not disputing that. Was just pointing out people that are promoting a 2nd wave base it on the Spanish Flu, The same people who keep saying this is not a Flu. 

 

Basing it on other pandemics, not just flu.

[kila]

Just now, Hood09 said:

Partick just giving up then ? 

 

Makes me wonder given the limbo situation. Partick maybe cutting a few free who wanted an exit, or maybe they are convinced the 2nd/3rd tiers won't be playing this year.

 

Wonder where Dario will go, seemed settled in Scotland.

[Walter Bishop]

2 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

Exactly!! None of us have a clue yet you come on here spouting about this that and the other, 2nd waves, air travel.

you are guessing like everyone else.

Here is a thought, maybe just maybe the way to deal with this now is to try and get things back to normal? I’m guessing like you tbh but by the reading of your posts you’d have been quite happy for everyone to stay locked down indefinitely.

I assume your job is safe and you don’t work in the travel or hospitality sector so not too fussed about the economy on the front.

Exactly. 

[Rods]

So now loudmouth Mcinally is advocating 14-10-10-10 
 

 

[tcjambo]

1 minute ago, Heartsofgold said:

 

It's not nonsense.  The FM has done almost everything correctly, the only issue being care homes but as other have said the benefit of hindsight and all that.  There are areas of England where the rate is edging back over 1.  This virus has an incubation period of 1-2 weeks so we will know in a couple of weeks if this weekends protests have caused a further spike/wave of infections.  Not every carrier is symptomatic and that in the major problem.

We'll see is my last word.

[Walter Bishop]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

Basing it on other pandemics, not just flu.

Well the nearest thing to this died out on it`s own, i live in hope that Covid-19 will go the same way. It certainly appears there is something easing it around the world. 

[Heartsofgold]

1 minute ago, Walter Bishop said:

Not disputing that. Was just pointing out people that are promoting a 2nd wave base it on the Spanish Flu, The same people who keep saying this is not a Flu. 

 

Only because that was the last, true pandemic.  Everything else is just simple modelling guesswork.  The major difference now is the vast leap forward in medical and diagnostic technology since 1918 but that is tempered by the ability to now get anywhere on the planet within 24 hours rather than the weeks of travel in 1918.

[Walter Bishop]

3 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

 

It's not nonsense.  The FM has done almost everything correctly, the only issue being care homes but as other have said the benefit of hindsight and all that.  There are areas of England where the rate is edging back over 1.  This virus has an incubation period of 1-2 weeks so we will know in a couple of weeks if this weekends protests have caused a further spike/wave of infections.  Not every carrier is symptomatic and that in the major problem.

"The only issue being care homes" 

 

Where more than half of the deaths have occurred. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

8 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

Exactly!! None of us have a clue yet you come on here spouting about this that and the other, 2nd waves, air travel.

you are guessing like everyone else.

Here is a thought, maybe just maybe the way to deal with this now is to try and get things back to normal? I’m guessing like you tbh but by the reading of your posts you’d have been quite happy for everyone to stay locked down indefinitely.

I assume your job is safe and you don’t work in the travel or hospitality sector so not too fussed about the economy on the front.

 

Not guessing, basing it on what other countries have done. Here's what I just posted down a bit further:

 

New Zealand, population similar to Scotland - 22 deaths. BC, Canada - population similar to Scotland, shares a border with one of the worst affected countries in the world and with several cities much denser and bigger than Scotland has - 165 deaths. These places did that by shutting down borders and parts of the economy much sooner than the UK and folk are still saying the shutdown doesn't work. I've lived and travelled extensively in NZ and Canada, including BC - working with tourism companies a fair bit - and both places are very reliant on tourism. They seem to have put the lives of citizens first and no doubt plan to figure out the economy later on. The right, human approach IMO.

 

Edited June 7, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[argyjambo]

2 hours ago, OTT said:

 

 

Seems Tom English has finally hit breaking point with the idiots on Sportsound  

 

Sadly, I suspect he'll not be participating much more there so it will become utterly unwatchable. 

Well, imagine that! A RADIO programme described as unwatchable, the sort of post I'd expect on .net

[Heartsofgold]

1 minute ago, Walter Bishop said:

"The only issue being care homes" 

 

Where more than half of the deaths have occurred. 

 

And as I said the the benefit of hindsight this would not have happened.  

[Mikey1874]

9 minutes ago, Hood09 said:

Partick just giving up then ? 

 

Players who want out getting out before Partick are no longer relegated.

 

Players using relegation clauses to leave. Not the club.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Mikey1874

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said:

"The only issue being care homes" 

 

Where more than half of the deaths have occurred. 

 

I think we'll see a lot more nationalisation of care homes after this thing. Glad we never put my old man in one.

[Heartsofgold]

7 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said:

Well the nearest thing to this died out on it`s own, i live in hope that Covid-19 will go the same way. It certainly appears there is something easing it around the world. 

Oh I'm the same WB, I want to get back to my office.  Homeworking is not for me, at least not full time.

[redjambo]

4 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

 

Only because that was the last, true pandemic.  Everything else is just simple modelling guesswork.  The major difference now is the vast leap forward in medical and diagnostic technology since 1918 but that is tempered by the ability to now get anywhere on the planet within 24 hours rather than the weeks of travel in 1918.

 

This. We have no idea whether or not there will be a "second wave". And that's forgetting that we have to define "wave" in the first place. If there are sporadic outbreaks in the future, which I am fairly sure there will be, would those count as a "wave"? Not in my opinion, they wouldn't.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

12 minutes ago, Hood09 said:

Partick just giving up then ? 

Nothing partick can do because the leagues have been called 

[redjambo]

Just now, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Nothing partick can do because the leagues have been called 

 

So they can't initiate legal action?

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

3 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Players who want out getting out before Partick are no longer relegated.

 

Players using relegation clauses to leave. Not the club.

Exactly ! Right now any of our players could do the same if they've got relegation clause in contract 

[CJGJ]

4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

This is how it happened. The UK ignored evidence from other countries. Countries that didn't ignore that evidence have done much better and will probably do much better economically as well. The UK's approach has led to not only more deaths form the virus but god knows how many more deaths due to the health system being overloaded with Covid cases.

 

Personally I think the health service is there to protect everyone not to just allow it to kill thousands of people of a certain age. If the way to do that then leads to other impacts then deal with those too. 

However the Health Service was never overloaded with Covid cases..indeed the extra beds were in the end not really required to the extent people and experts anticipated

I'd also like you to tell us how they were allowed to kill thousands of people..that is murder if we believe your thoughts..not proof but thoughts

 

There will be an enquiry after this is over and I'm sure we'll have a better picture

 

My thoughts are the government got caught up in this Herd theory and were slow to change tack and the 'new' policy took time to organise along with a lack of equipment for the medical staff as well as a failure to anticipate that care homes were a particular  area to have focused on.

The government has to bear responsibility for many of those who died to some extent for their failure in the first few weeks as well their failure to stop thousands coming into the country possibly carrying the virus.

 

A lack of organisation, a delay in taking action even if only for a couple of weeks, failure to supply equipment  (ventilators and masks for example) early enough and to the right people, failure to lockdown from outside the UK are all my thoughts but like you I'm no expert

[kila]

1 minute ago, Walter Bishop said:

"The only issue being care homes" 

 

Where more than half of the deaths have occurred. 

 

I am curious about how the older folk care home deaths compare to previous years. Obviously they were badly hit and sadly the reaction seemed to be a 'oh yeah what do we do about them' situation which made rather inhumane.

 

https://www.isdscotland.org/Health-Topics/Health-and-Social-Community-Care/Publications/2018-09-11/2018-09-11-CHCensus-Report.pdf

 

That's all I can find so far, and it suggests 2016/2017 there were just shy of 14,000 deaths. Average stay is around 18 months.

 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

Just now, redjambo said:

 

So they can't initiate legal action?

The players have got relegation clauses and leagues been called so right now they're relegated 

[redjambo]

Just now, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

The players have got relegation clauses and leagues been called so right now they're relegated 

 

Sorry Selkirk, I didn't see your post in context. You're correct of course.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

However the Health Service was never overloaded with Covid cases..indeed the extra beds were in the end not really required to the extent people and experts anticipated

I'd also like you to tell us how they were allowed to kill thousands of people..that is murder if we believe your thoughts..not proof but thoughts

 

There will be an enquiry after this is over and I'm sure we'll have a better picture

 

My thoughts are the government got caught up in this Herd theory and were slow to change tack and the 'new' policy took time to organise along with a lack of equipment for the medical staff as well as a failure to anticipate that care homes were a particular  area to have focused on.

The government has to bear responsibility for many of those who died to some extent for their failure in the first few weeks as well their failure to stop thousands coming into the country possibly carrying the virus.

 

A lack of organisation, a delay in taking action even if only for a couple of weeks, failure to supply equipment  (ventilators and masks for example) early enough and to the right people, failure to lockdown from outside the UK are all my thoughts but like you I'm no expert

 

 

The evidence was there in Italy and Spain. The UK ignored it and other countries didn't. The UK has one of the worst death totals while other countries did much, much better, including excess deaths. You used the word murder. Certainly the UK gov has shown a callous disregard for lives. But then austerity killed more people than COVID so it's nothing new for that shower.

Edited June 7, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Rods]

I hope we all remember Roy Mcgregors stance in all of this 

[NANOJAMBO]

Mods : can we get this back on topic please.

There's a thread for this in The Shed. 

 

Cheers. 

[Mikey1874]

33 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

The EPL reported no positive cases out of 1195 tests yesterday

 

And decent from latest EFL - includes backroom staff from Barnsley 

 

 

[henryheart]

5 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

 

It's not nonsense.  The FM has done almost everything correctly, the only issue being care homes but as other have said the benefit of hindsight and all that.  There are areas of England where the rate is edging back over 1.  This virus has an incubation period of 1-2 weeks so we will know in a couple of weeks if this weekends protests have caused a further spike/wave of infections.  Not every carrier is symptomatic and that in the major problem.

 

You might say getting it almost everything correct is good, but when you get something wrong and it results in a significant number of deaths then it most certainly is not. Some have said, 'with the benefit of hindsight', those affected might call it gross incompetence. Sturgeon has the powers to act independently from elsewhere in Britain on this matter and what did she do - she got  it badly wrong. Hardly a ringing endorsement.   

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

6 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Sorry Selkirk, I didn't see your post in context. You're correct of course.

👍

[1874robbo]

2 minutes ago, Rods said:

I hope we all remember Roy Mcgregors stance in all of this 

We will remember all these feckers after this, even if we get reconstruction and stay in the top league I’ll never put a penny into any of these teams coffers in any way.

even if it means not going to a home cup game.

[Mikey1874]

5 minutes ago, Rods said:

I hope we all remember Roy Mcgregors stance in all of this 

 

Hopefully someone can question his '20 minute' testing machine. 

[graygo]

41 minutes ago, rory78 said:

Ok fair doos but as long as your healthy is it really worth locking us up for much longer??it'll soon be at 0 and what do we do then?people need to live old folk need out and i need to work 🤡

 

No, if it was up to me we would be moving further out of lockdown now not waiting till the 18th. Maybe a bit longer for the vulnerable.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

5 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

You might say getting it almost everything correct is good, but when you get something wrong and it results in a significant number of deaths then it most certainly is not. Some have said, 'with the benefit of hindsight', those affected might call it gross incompetence. Sturgeon has the powers to act independently from elsewhere in Britain on this matter and what did she do - she got  it badly wrong. Hardly a ringing endorsement.   

 

As far as I know she couldn't close inernational borders which has been shown to be one of the most effective ways to stop the spread. Not even sure she could set quarantine rules for people entering Scotland from abroad.

[graygo]

34 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Spot on. Today's figures for Scotland as a whole are: 16 in ICU confirmed with coronavirus + 9 in ICU suspected with coronavirus.

 

Cheers, still not too bad or at least could be worse.

[Hungry hippo]

7 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Hopefully someone can question his '20 minute' testing machine. 

 

Crazy that it barely even seems be a discussion point in the Scottish media.

[Mister Dee]

16 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

You might say getting it almost everything correct is good, but when you get something wrong and it results in a significant number of deaths then it most certainly is not. Some have said, 'with the benefit of hindsight', those affected might call it gross incompetence. Sturgeon has the powers to act independently from elsewhere in Britain on this matter and what did she do - she got  it badly wrong. Hardly a ringing endorsement.   

Sturgeon has no ‘powers‘ to close the border -WM would have to sanction it. 
 

 

For those that think the government is not moving fast enough to ease the lockdown, get a grip.
The death rate from this disease is horrific, I’ve seen it’s effects close up & it’s brutal. 

[niblick1874]

12 minutes ago, kila said:

 

I am curious about how the older folk care home deaths compare to previous years. Obviously they were badly hit and sadly the reaction seemed to be a 'oh yeah what do we do about them' situation which made rather inhumane.

 

https://www.isdscotland.org/Health-Topics/Health-and-Social-Community-Care/Publications/2018-09-11/2018-09-11-CHCensus-Report.pdf

 

That's all I can find so far, and it suggests 2016/2017 there were just shy of 14,000 deaths. Average stay is around 18 months.

 

 

Have a look at what they did in New York when it comes to old folks homes. It was not a mistake. None of this is a mistake. You don't make mistakes like that. It is mass murder and is not fixed to one place. It is everywhere.

[tcjambo]

3 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

As far as I know she couldn't close inernational borders which has been shown to be one of the most effective ways to stop the spread. Not even sure she could set quarantine rules for people entering Scotland from abroad.

I have actually appreciated your balanced posts on Levein and the state of the club.

 

Unfortunately, your devotion to the Nationalist cause is seriously affecting your objectivity. An example of confirmation bias. If you can read the following I think this guy gets it:

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/science-doubt-and-the-second-wave-of-covid#

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-way-covid-deaths-are-being-counted-is-a-national-scandal

 

 

[graygo]

7 minutes ago, Mister Dee said:

Sturgeon has no ‘powers‘ to close the border -WM would have to sanction it. 
 

 

For those that think the government is not moving fast enough to ease the lockdown, get a grip.
The death rate from this disease is horrific, I’ve seen it’s effects close up & it’s brutal. 

 

The death rate in Scotland has been horrific, the signs now are that we are through the worst of it. When do you think we should look at easing the lockdown?

 

Probably the wrong thread for this so will be my last on the subject on here.

[JamboAl1965]

7 minutes ago, tcjambo said:

I have actually appreciated your balanced posts on Levein and the state of the club.

 

Unfortunately, your devotion to the Nationalist cause is seriously affecting your objectivity. An example of confirmation bias. If you can read the following I think this guy gets it:

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/science-doubt-and-the-second-wave-of-covid#

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-way-covid-deaths-are-being-counted-is-a-national-scandal

 

[Ultras Granata 1874]

8 minutes ago, tcjambo said:

I have actually appreciated your balanced posts on Levein and the state of the club.

 

Unfortunately, your devotion to the Nationalist cause is seriously affecting your objectivity. An example of confirmation bias. If you can read the following I think this guy gets it:

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/science-doubt-and-the-second-wave-of-covid#

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-way-covid-deaths-are-being-counted-is-a-national-scandal

 

 

Quoting from the rabidly pro tory spectator isn't that objective either 😁

[JamboAl1965]

Shouldn't get involved in politics And it’s the wrong thread but if your quoting the spectator and shouting about bias your on shaky ground. 
 

As for the ant FM  stuff she’s done incredibly well and continue to do so. Im in the middle of this every single day and I know which government I want in charge.