What Clubs are in danger of Admin/liquidation?

[Werner Herzog]

18 hours ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Simple answer - All of them.  They're all in the business of selling match tickets, merchandise, and corporate hospitality.  When you restrict or close those revenue avenues, then you become wholly dependent on TV and sponsorship, which won't come if there's no coverage of your product and their product.  Celtic might have a shitload in the bank, but it's all relative.  The harder they come, the harder they fall.  Every club that goes to the wall restarts the domino effect.  Eventually Celtic will feel the pressure when they've got nobody to play in an empty stadium.  

 

Nice Jimmy Cliff reference - and I agree with every word.

 

Every club is at risk here, but you would imagine that the clubs who will struggle the most are the ones unable to cut costs as effectively & not have a wealthy benefactor or fan base to fall back on. 

 

I fear that so many small to mid range clubs are going to perish across Europe because of this, which makes me wonder if this will be the catalyst for that dreaded European super league to emerge a few years from now...

[Werner Herzog]

18 hours ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Simple answer - All of them.  They're all in the business of selling match tickets, merchandise, and corporate hospitality.  When you restrict or close those revenue avenues, then you become wholly dependent on TV and sponsorship, which won't come if there's no coverage of your product and their product.  Celtic might have a shitload in the bank, but it's all relative.  The harder they come, the harder they fall.  Every club that goes to the wall restarts the domino effect.  Eventually Celtic will feel the pressure when they've got nobody to play in an empty stadium.  

 

Nice Jimmy Cliff reference - and I agree with every word.

 

Every club is at risk here, but you would imagine that the clubs who will struggle the most are the ones unable to cut costs as effectively & not have a wealthy benefactor or fan base to fall back on. 

 

I fear that so many small to mid range clubs are going to perish across Europe because of this, which makes me wonder if this will be the catalyst for that dreaded European super league to emerge a few years from now...

[Werner Herzog]

18 hours ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Simple answer - All of them.  They're all in the business of selling match tickets, merchandise, and corporate hospitality.  When you restrict or close those revenue avenues, then you become wholly dependent on TV and sponsorship, which won't come if there's no coverage of your product and their product.  Celtic might have a shitload in the bank, but it's all relative.  The harder they come, the harder they fall.  Every club that goes to the wall restarts the domino effect.  Eventually Celtic will feel the pressure when they've got nobody to play in an empty stadium.  

 

Nice Jimmy Cliff reference - and I agree with every word.

 

Every club is at risk here, but you would imagine that the clubs who will struggle the most are the ones unable to cut costs as effectively & not have a wealthy benefactor or fan base to fall back on. 

 

I fear that so many small to mid range clubs are going to perish across Europe because of this, which makes me wonder if this will be the catalyst for that dreaded European super league to emerge a few years from now...

[Werner Herzog]

18 hours ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Simple answer - All of them.  They're all in the business of selling match tickets, merchandise, and corporate hospitality.  When you restrict or close those revenue avenues, then you become wholly dependent on TV and sponsorship, which won't come if there's no coverage of your product and their product.  Celtic might have a shitload in the bank, but it's all relative.  The harder they come, the harder they fall.  Every club that goes to the wall restarts the domino effect.  Eventually Celtic will feel the pressure when they've got nobody to play in an empty stadium.  

 

Nice Jimmy Cliff reference - and I agree with every word.

 

Every club is at risk here, but you would imagine that the clubs who will struggle the most are the ones unable to cut costs as effectively & not have a wealthy benefactor or fan base to fall back on. 

 

I fear that so many small to mid range clubs are going to perish across Europe because of this, which makes me wonder if this will be the catalyst for that dreaded European super league to emerge a few years from now...

[Werner Herzog]

18 hours ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Simple answer - All of them.  They're all in the business of selling match tickets, merchandise, and corporate hospitality.  When you restrict or close those revenue avenues, then you become wholly dependent on TV and sponsorship, which won't come if there's no coverage of your product and their product.  Celtic might have a shitload in the bank, but it's all relative.  The harder they come, the harder they fall.  Every club that goes to the wall restarts the domino effect.  Eventually Celtic will feel the pressure when they've got nobody to play in an empty stadium.  

 

Nice Jimmy Cliff reference - and I agree with every word.

 

Every club is at risk here, but you would imagine that the clubs who will struggle the most are the ones unable to cut costs as effectively & not have a wealthy benefactor or fan base to fall back on. 

 

I fear that so many small to mid range clubs are going to perish across Europe because of this, which makes me wonder if this will be the catalyst for that dreaded European super league to emerge a few years from now...

[Werner Herzog]

Apologies for the multiple posts; ran into a technical issue there.

[7628mm]

18 hours ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Simple answer - All of them.  They're all in the business of selling match tickets, merchandise, and corporate hospitality.  When you restrict or close those revenue avenues, then you become wholly dependent on TV and sponsorship, which won't come if there's no coverage of your product and their product.  Celtic might have a shitload in the bank, but it's all relative.  The harder they come, the harder they fall.  Every club that goes to the wall restarts the domino effect.  Eventually Celtic will feel the pressure when they've got nobody to play in an empty stadium.  

 

Without the need to expand any further........................what he said

[Last Laff]

1 hour ago, David McCaig said:

If there is no football in front of paying customers until next year and Hibs are committed to effectively paying their players in full at a time when income is being lost, they are creating a huge future debt for themselves.

True. Clubs are selling season tickets and not having to spend operational costs at the moment though it will all depend really on how long this goes on for clubs like us, and Hibs who have players on long term contracts. 

[Footballfirst]

I believe that the bigger and medium sized clubs (with full time staff) are at most risk.

 

The part-time clubs are reasonably well placed to survive. Their employees and players probably have other jobs and income to get by.  Those clubs can effectively shut down and only have to play their fixed costs for rates, insurance and utilities. Clubs will still be reliant on donations, lotteries and other means of raising non football revenue to cover those costs.

 

The deferral of wages by most of the bigger clubs is only a sicking plaster solution to their short term cash flow needs.  They will all have to suspend all wages, release players from their contracts, make people redundant if football does not resume by August. (unlikely to be in front of paying fans in any event). Those deferred wages will still have to be paid and will affect the cash flow for the whole of next season and beyond.  Players may well be reluctant to walk away from their (reduced) contracts if no other clubs are recruiting, far less able to play at all. 

 

The SFA and SPFL needs to show a greater recognition of reality. It needs to set aside the insolvency rules re sporting sanctions, player registrations, contracts, transfer windows, football creditors etc. They should allow clubs to go into a dormant state (abeyance), either outside or inside an administration process with temporary protection from creditors , having released players and staff, but be able to reengage staff and players and resume operations when it is safe to do so, then be in a position to meet their outstanding bills.   

 

Clubs such as Celtic may have the biggest bank balance, but they also have the biggest outgoings in terms of wages. They will not be immune to an extended period without income.  The FOH cash could provide Hearts with the means to tick over in a state of hibernation indefinitely.

 

One of the biggest dangers to clubs going forward is their future income. Will all their sponsors, e.g pitch side advertising or hospitality, still be in business next season? Will fans want to buy season tickets with no certainty about games being played or the numbers allowed in a stadium? Will families want to risk attending games in close proximity to other people?

[Bazzas right boot]

54 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

But if we sell even say 10,000 season tickets that is the equivalent of up front match day revenue. Capped and less than normal but still around £3m

 

Plus are running costs for players is going to decrease no matter what within the next week or so.

 

I might be missing something

 

 

Yeah, season tickets will help. 

 

It can be debated but unless we can,see each clubs revenue breakdown as a % of a seasons total revenue it's all gossip and guesses. 

 

Imo, a club like Hearts will have not only a bigger value but also a bigger % of revenue from match day than the likes of Hamilton, Killie, livi etc, therefor losing that with no notice and it not being budgeted for will cause more alarm. 

 

Rangers even more so. 

 

Clubs with a lower % of revenue from season tickets and match day will be less hit. 

 

Ofc, it depends on more than that , especially debt payments and how clubs can cut their cloth, but ironically clubs that have shitty crowds(and budgeted for that) will be less impacted, to a point as it  made up less of their total budgeted income in the first place. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[highlandjambo3]

57 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

How many Hearts fans with hammers can you fit into Easter Road, whilst maintaining 2m physical distancing?

Easy......just look at hibs average home attendance seeing as they have been practicing social distancing for years.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, David McCaig said:

Hamilton will probably be fine given that pretty much their whole playing squad is out of contract in 5 weeks time.

 

 

Ironically clubs like Hamilton might be the safest. 

Livi as well. 

 

Low dependency on season tickets sales and match day income(% wise) 

Low wages for squad and as you say lots of out of contract players. 

 

 

In Scotland, outwith owners helping, hibs, Aberdeen, us and rangers are at risk the most imo. 

Rangers by the most but if they can sell Morelos (even in principle) it will bail them out. 

 

Killie, St Johnstone, St mirren well maybe next? 

 

 

Livi, Hamilton, Ross county the safest? 

 

Can't tell without knowing what % of total income is from match day but clubs that take the most from this % wise of total revenue are most at risk as they are losing more budgeted money. 

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2020 by Smith's right boot

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

21 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Ironically clubs like Hamilton might be the safest. 

Livi as well. 

 

Low dependency on season tickets sales and match day income(% wise) 

Low wages for squad and as you say lots of out of contract players. 

 

 

In Scotland, outwith owners helping, hibs, Aberdeen, us and rangers are at risk the most imo. 

Rangers by the most but if they can sell Morelos (even in principle) it will bail them out. 

 

Killie, St Johnstone, St mirren well maybe next? 

 

 

Livi, Hamilton, Ross county the safest? 

 

Can't tell without knowing what % of total income is from match day but clubs that take the most from this % wise of total revenue are most at risk as they are losing more budgeted money. 

 

 

 

Remember Hamilton believe Sky is the lifeblood of the game. 

 

Not so sure tv deals don't make a huge hole for those types 

[David McCaig]

27 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Remember Hamilton believe Sky is the lifeblood of the game. 

 

Not so sure tv deals don't make a huge hole for those types 

Hamilton/Livingston are most dependent on tv, but day to day running costs are negligible... they don’t even need to worry about pitch maintenance!!

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Sir Gio said:

Remember Hamilton believe Sky is the lifeblood of the game. 

 

Not so sure tv deals don't make a huge hole for those types 

 

1 hour ago, David McCaig said:

Hamilton/Livingston are most dependent on tv, but day to day running costs are negligible... they don’t even need to worry about pitch maintenance!!

 

 

Yip, it's a strange dynamic. 

 

Teams that have budgeted well, have big stadiums, good pitches, players on long term contracts and good supports will be most effected atm. 

 

Teams with shitty stadiums, no support, lots players out of Contract will be ok you'd think until after the summer. 

 

Ofc, sponsorship, tv money etc could all be reduced going forward as well so no club is safe from this, especially as it goes for longer. 

 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

4 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

 

Yip, it's a strange dynamic. 

 

Teams that have budgeted well, have big stadiums, good pitches, players on long term contracts and good supports will be most effected atm. 

 

Teams with shitty stadiums, no support, lots players out of Contract will be ok you'd think until after the summer. 

 

Ofc, sponsorship, tv money etc could all be reduced going forward as well so no club is safe from this, especially as it goes for longer. 

 

Would be marvellous if it were a ten team Premier next season. 

 

The recoil from Hamilton would be worth the pain 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

It’s not simple but season tickets will provide revenue

 

There will be the loss of match day specific revenue on the one hand

 

On the other hand there will be savings to set off against that.

 

Our outgoings from next month will be far lower than they were 3 months ago

 

For example, I have suffered a monthly financial hit to my income but - although we are spending more on food and booze from the shops - we also have costs savings

 

- no socialising costs

- no childcare costs

- the kids clubs that we had to pay for are stopped, which cost a small fortune each term

- petrol

 

Etc 

 

Our net available money is still less but is offset by other savings we are making so it isn’t a full hit

 

For hearts there will be savings

 

- staff costs

- players wages

- stadium match day costs

- stewarding costs

- travel savings

 

etc.

 

Edited April 25, 2020 by Tom Hardy’s Dug

[sandylejambo]

is there not a clause that you can rip up contracts if the season is suspended? if that's the case we could rip up them all and get real players in for next season, as a lot of players are going to be on the dole very soon and we could end up punching above our weight. We would have the money from FOH to keep the lights on till footy starts up again.

[GinRummy]

1 hour ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

It’s not simple but season tickets will provide revenue

 

There will be the loss of match day specific revenue on the one hand

 

On the other hand there will be savings to set off against that.

 

Our outgoings from next month will be far lower than they were 3 months ago

 

For example, I have suffered a monthly financial hit to my income but - although we are spending more on food and booze from the shops - we also have costs savings

 

- no socialising costs

- no childcare costs

- the kids clubs that we had to pay for are stopped, which cost a small fortune each term

- petrol

 

Etc 

 

Our net available money is still less but is offset by other savings we are making so it isn’t a full hit

 

For hearts there will be savings

 

- staff costs

- players wages

- stadium match day costs

- stewarding costs

- travel savings

 

etc.

 

It’s a good comparison though one of things that’s unclear with hearts and all the other clubs is just how much money they are stil due out for invoices received and if they have money to pay for it. I’ve no idea if things like stewarding, police costs etc are paid up front or run on 60 day invoices or whatever. Many companies live in a sort of constant state of catch up where you pay last months costs with this months money, only there is no this months money anymore.  

[OTT]

27 minutes ago, sandylejambo said:

is there not a clause that you can rip up contracts if the season is suspended? if that's the case we could rip up them all and get real players in for next season, as a lot of players are going to be on the dole very soon and we could end up punching above our weight. We would have the money from FOH to keep the lights on till footy starts up again.

 

I'm really not sure why we're not doing this. I hate to be brutal but we don't know how long this is going to last. I'd rather bin those we want to bin and keep those we want to try and keep. As this continues with virtually no income into the club, funds are only going to go down. I'd rather we took action (real action) now to ensure we can stretch what money the club does have as long as possible. Paying the players virtually their whole huge wage (since some genius thought it better to go for a high basic...) we're going to run out of money. Its a massive gamble to do this now, and I'd rather get the difficult business done now, rather than when we're on our knees pleading for the unreasonable players to be reasonable. 

[Rods]

Elgin City are the first to come out and say they are done if forlough does not continue after 3 months. 
 

Did the Elgin chairmen not have plenty to say about us? The Karma train has arrived quicker than expected. 
 

The landscape of Scottish football may have to change completely. It should not be made about saving us. 
 

 

[CJGJ]

2 hours ago, Rods said:

Elgin City are the first to come out and say they are done if forlough does not continue after 3 months. 
 

Did the Elgin chairmen not have plenty to say about us? The Karma train has arrived quicker than expected. 
 

The landscape of Scottish football may have to change completely. It should not be made about saving us. 
 

 

He quite frankly comes over as looking after number one.

 

Now that's fine by me as long as they are open about it...there is always going to be  'I'll do what is best for me' in a structure that means you are reliant on others to make most of your major decisions.

What is clear though is that if reconstruction gave his club £10,000 a year more he'd vote for it in a second without looking at the greater need of Scottish football.

What surprises me is that the very small clubs who are part time and should have a low cost base are struggling after less than 2 months and this furlough scheme cannot be used twice for players football job and players full time non football jobs with of course the football salary not being that high either.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

19 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

I believe that the bigger and medium sized clubs (with full time staff) are at most risk.

 

The part-time clubs are reasonably well placed to survive. Their employees and players probably have other jobs and income to get by.  Those clubs can effectively shut down and only have to play their fixed costs for rates, insurance and utilities. Clubs will still be reliant on donations, lotteries and other means of raising non football revenue to cover those costs.

 

The deferral of wages by most of the bigger clubs is only a sicking plaster solution to their short term cash flow needs.  They will all have to suspend all wages, release players from their contracts, make people redundant if football does not resume by August. (unlikely to be in front of paying fans in any event). Those deferred wages will still have to be paid and will affect the cash flow for the whole of next season and beyond.  Players may well be reluctant to walk away from their (reduced) contracts if no other clubs are recruiting, far less able to play at all. 

 

The SFA and SPFL needs to show a greater recognition of reality. It needs to set aside the insolvency rules re sporting sanctions, player registrations, contracts, transfer windows, football creditors etc. They should allow clubs to go into a dormant state (abeyance), either outside or inside an administration process with temporary protection from creditors , having released players and staff, but be able to reengage staff and players and resume operations when it is safe to do so, then be in a position to meet their outstanding bills.   

 

Clubs such as Celtic may have the biggest bank balance, but they also have the biggest outgoings in terms of wages. They will not be immune to an extended period without income.  The FOH cash could provide Hearts with the means to tick over in a state of hibernation indefinitely.

 

One of the biggest dangers to clubs going forward is their future income. Will all their sponsors, e.g pitch side advertising or hospitality, still be in business next season? Will fans want to buy season tickets with no certainty about games being played or the numbers allowed in a stadium? Will families want to risk attending games in close proximity to other people?

Agree we're in fortunate position we've got guaranteed monthly foh money coming in aswell as it's only another few weeks until certain players out of contract but we've still got an awful lot of players under contract on decent wages and is foh monthly money enough to cover that aswell as running costs ? 

[David McCaig]

A full season of shutdown and the consequent loss of tv revenue would certainly be a game changer for many clubs ironically if demoted we would be slightly more insulated.

[Ehllhayapeh]

On 24/04/2020 at 10:31, Jeff said:

Dundee United

The Ogrens have been tremendous owners so far. I dont think we are in much danger. 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Ehllhayapeh

[Rods]

1 minute ago, Ehllhayapeh said:

The Ogrens have been tremendous owners so far. I dont think we are in much danger. 

 
Apart from the fall out with the supporters group and the money though aye? 

[Seymour M Hersh]

Hopefully Ross County.  Back to the Highland League where they belong. 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Seymour M Hersh

[heartandsoul]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

Hopefully Ross County.  Back to the Highland League where they belong. 

This

[gashauskis9]

23 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

I believe that the bigger and medium sized clubs (with full time staff) are at most risk.

 

The part-time clubs are reasonably well placed to survive. Their employees and players probably have other jobs and income to get by.  Those clubs can effectively shut down and only have to play their fixed costs for rates, insurance and utilities. Clubs will still be reliant on donations, lotteries and other means of raising non football revenue to cover those costs.

 

The deferral of wages by most of the bigger clubs is only a sicking plaster solution to their short term cash flow needs.  They will all have to suspend all wages, release players from their contracts, make people redundant if football does not resume by August. (unlikely to be in front of paying fans in any event). Those deferred wages will still have to be paid and will affect the cash flow for the whole of next season and beyond.  Players may well be reluctant to walk away from their (reduced) contracts if no other clubs are recruiting, far less able to play at all. 

 

The SFA and SPFL needs to show a greater recognition of reality. It needs to set aside the insolvency rules re sporting sanctions, player registrations, contracts, transfer windows, football creditors etc. They should allow clubs to go into a dormant state (abeyance), either outside or inside an administration process with temporary protection from creditors , having released players and staff, but be able to reengage staff and players and resume operations when it is safe to do so, then be in a position to meet their outstanding bills.   

 

Clubs such as Celtic may have the biggest bank balance, but they also have the biggest outgoings in terms of wages. They will not be immune to an extended period without income.  The FOH cash could provide Hearts with the means to tick over in a state of hibernation indefinitely.

 

One of the biggest dangers to clubs going forward is their future income. Will all their sponsors, e.g pitch side advertising or hospitality, still be in business next season? Will fans want to buy season tickets with no certainty about games being played or the numbers allowed in a stadium? Will families want to risk attending games in close proximity to other people?

As always FF, spot on 👍

[gashauskis9]

My gut feel is that Dundee Utd would go to the wall first.  They’ve overspent big time to get promoted and aren’t just reliant on promotion but also getting the money for next season in the bank ASAP.  Wouldn’t shock me if the Dundee merger is back on the table again and there was some influence from this on the vote.

[julienbrellier]

16 hours ago, Rods said:

 

 

23 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

I believe that the bigger and medium sized clubs (with full time staff) are at most risk.

 

The part-time clubs are reasonably well placed to survive. Their employees and players probably have other jobs and income to get by.  Those clubs can effectively shut down and only have to play their fixed costs for rates, insurance and utilities. Clubs will still be reliant on donations, lotteries and other means of raising non football revenue to cover those costs.

 

The deferral of wages by most of the bigger clubs is only a sicking plaster solution to their short term cash flow needs.  They will all have to suspend all wages, release players from their contracts, make people redundant if football does not resume by August. (unlikely to be in front of paying fans in any event). Those deferred wages will still have to be paid and will affect the cash flow for the whole of next season and beyond.  Players may well be reluctant to walk away from their (reduced) contracts if no other clubs are recruiting, far less able to play at all. 

 

The SFA and SPFL needs to show a greater recognition of reality. It needs to set aside the insolvency rules re sporting sanctions, player registrations, contracts, transfer windows, football creditors etc. They should allow clubs to go into a dormant state (abeyance), either outside or inside an administration process with temporary protection from creditors , having released players and staff, but be able to reengage staff and players and resume operations when it is safe to do so, then be in a position to meet their outstanding bills.   

 

Clubs such as Celtic may have the biggest bank balance, but they also have the biggest outgoings in terms of wages. They will not be immune to an extended period without income.  The FOH cash could provide Hearts with the means to tick over in a state of hibernation indefinitely.

 

One of the biggest dangers to clubs going forward is their future income. Will all their sponsors, e.g pitch side advertising or hospitality, still be in business next season? Will fans want to buy season tickets with no certainty about games being played or the numbers allowed in a stadium? Will families want to risk attending games in close proximity to other people?

 

Good point, can see the FOH money sustaining us if this, as predicted, goes on until Christmas. Surely other clubs could go under. Our wage bill will be way down once we are able to rip up contracts.

 

 

[GinRummy]

2 hours ago, Ehllhayapeh said:

The Ogrens have been tremendous owners so far. I dont think we are in much danger. 

What people may or may not be missing is that owners of clubs will have other businesses that might also be struggling. They’ll have some hard decisions to make before pumping money into clubs. Not aiming that at united owners. 

[Rods]

24 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

What people may or may not be missing is that owners of clubs will have other businesses that might also be struggling. They’ll have some hard decisions to make before pumping money into clubs. Not aiming that at united owners. 

Correct 

 

Mad Vlad also had Banking and Steel companies. Those were hit big time due to the crash. We limped along after those went belly up mostly due to the fans.

[132goals1958]

6 hours ago, GinRummy said:

What people may or may not be missing is that owners of clubs will have other businesses that might also be struggling. They’ll have some hard decisions to make before pumping money into clubs. Not aiming that at united owners. 

 

They might ultimately have to consider enforcing any standard securities they hold. Now who might that affect. 😮

[GinRummy]

10 minutes ago, 132goals1958 said:

 

They might ultimately have to consider enforcing any standard securities they hold. Now who might that affect. 😮

😀’m guessing hibs but I don’t normally pay much attention to clubs finances so I’m playing catch up a bit. 

[Yoda]

7 hours ago, Gashauskis9 said:

My gut feel is that Dundee Utd would go to the wall first.  They’ve overspent big time to get promoted and aren’t just reliant on promotion but also getting the money for next season in the bank ASAP.  Wouldn’t shock me if the Dundee merger is back on the table again and there was some influence from this on the vote.

Based on the last few weeks, I'd like to see this happen, with the new team called Dundee United and playing tangerine.

[Nelly Terraces]

Hopefully a lot of these clubs go under. Scottish football is a grubby wee business run by lowbrow goons both within the governing bodies (laughable there's 2 of these for such a small country) & the clubs themselves.

 

Fingers crossed the Glasgow National side qualify for **** all as well.

[JamboAl]

22 hours ago, Rods said:

Correct 

 

Mad Vlad also had Banking and Steel companies. Those were hit big time due to the crash. We limped along after those went belly up mostly due to the fans.

Yes, the price of steel went breasts heavenwards and Vlad lost big time.  He became mad Vlad, Nasty Vlad and God knows what else but that good honest Scorrish lad, David Murray (Murray International Metals) and Rangers got off scot free.  I wonder why that was?

[Ehllhayapeh]

On 26/04/2020 at 06:04, Gashauskis9 said:

My gut feel is that Dundee Utd would go to the wall first.  They’ve overspent big time to get promoted and aren’t just reliant on promotion but also getting the money for next season in the bank ASAP.  Wouldn’t shock me if the Dundee merger is back on the table again and there was some influence from this on the vote.

 

There is exactly 0% chance of Dundee and Dundee United merging. The joint team is not going to get a fanbase any better than one or the other of the two teams because people will walk away.

 

Plus theres the practicality of what you call the team?

 

Cant be Dundee without United and cant be Dundee United.

 

Dundee United were originally going to be called Dundee City but Dundee appealed saying Dundee FC is defacto the city team and won. So Dundee City = Dundee FC

 

So that leaves..Tayside Thistle? Angus Athletic?   Really, there is zero chance of it happening.

 

As for the team colours? Tangerine, Black Blue and White? 

 

Cant be red (Dundee away) and cant be white (United away) cant be green (Dundee Hibs legacy) 

 

Yellow home shirts and lilac away shirts then!

 

Apart from that, United are not in any bother financially with the Ogrens pumping half a million in to renovate Tannadice last season. They have a collective wealth of $200m plus and arent going to walk away.

 

Rangers and for that matter Dundee and maybe Icy Tea are higher up that list than United are.

 

 

 

 

[Tasavallan]

On 26/04/2020 at 12:44, Rods said:

Correct 

 

Mad Vlad also had Banking and Steel companies. Those were hit big time due to the crash. We limped along after those went belly up mostly due to the fans.

 

Ukio Bankas group's big loss was in aluminium and polymers.  Smelters in the Balkans went tits up.

[Tasavallan]

On 26/04/2020 at 10:08, Seymour M Hersh said:

Hopefully Ross County.  Back to the Highland League where they belong. 

I was lving in Abu Dhabi when County got ellected to the league.  One of the inspectors was from Dinwall  and started  the AD Stags supporters club.  He cooersed me into joining and for a time they were my 2nd Scottish team. The novelty soon wained.  Never did I believe that they would rise to the premiership.  Never a premiership club.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Tasavallan

[Mysterion]

42 minutes ago, Ehllhayapeh said:

 

There is exactly 0% chance of Dundee and Dundee United merging. The joint team is not going to get a fanbase any better than one or the other of the two teams because people will walk away.

 

Tend to agree - i also don't think they need to merge. I do think it's time to give up on Tannadice and Dens though.

Would be better building a new stadium with 50:50 ownership and facilities that generate revenue for both. 

[Ehllhayapeh]

4 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

Tend to agree - i also don't think they need to merge. I do think it's time to give up on Tannadice and Dens though.

Would be better building a new stadium with 50:50 ownership and facilities that generate revenue for both. 

 

Was going to happen as part of Euro 2008 Scotland/Ireland bid and be built somewhere on the riverside I believe.

 

Sadly Scotland didnt win the bid so the stadium didnt happen.

 

Was going to be 31400 capacity for the euros and reduced to 22000 for the clubs.

 

That said, Tannadice is good enough for what we need. Unless we are regularly challenging Celtic at the top end (as in real title challengers) I dont think we need a bigger stadium or would sell out on a regular basis. Im open to moving if there is a proposal to do it but right now the investment and planning is in Tannadice, so I dont see it myself.

 

Plus a ground share at a new stadium means you need a commercial reason to buy the land of the current stadiums. Its not in a prime area of Dundee. Im not sure what the stadiums would raise or what a developer would do with the stadiums. Theres no demand for housing or commerical premises in Dundee at present.

 

 

[lost in leith]

On 25/04/2020 at 22:41, CJGJ said:

He quite frankly comes over as looking after number one.

 

Now that's fine by me as long as they are open about it...there is always going to be  'I'll do what is best for me' in a structure that means you are reliant on others to make most of your major decisions.

What is clear though is that if reconstruction gave his club £10,000 a year more he'd vote for it in a second without looking at the greater need of Scottish football.

What surprises me is that the very small clubs who are part time and should have a low cost base are struggling after less than 2 months and this furlough scheme cannot be used twice for players football job and players full time non football jobs with of course the football salary not being that high either.

In this article he states that they have 9 players whose contracts carry on after June.  That must be very unusual for clubs outside the top league and a handful of others.  However, surely the answer is that they will use 'clause 12' to suspend contracts if furlough payments stop and there is no sign of football being played in front of supporters.

 

Perhaps his real concern is games being played behind closed doors.  That makes no economic sense for clubs like Elgin.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52427942

[Mysterion]

1 minute ago, Ehllhayapeh said:

 

Was going to happen as part of Euro 2008 Scotland/Ireland bid and be built somewhere on the riverside I believe.

 

Sadly Scotland didnt win the bid so the stadium didnt happen.

 

Was going to be 31400 capacity for the euros and reduced to 22000 for the clubs.

 

That said, Tannadice is good enough for what we need. Unless we are regularly challenging Celtic at the top end (as in real title challengers) I dont think we need a bigger stadium or would sell out on a regular basis. Im open to moving if there is a proposal to do it but right now the investment and planning is in Tannadice, so I dont see it myself.

 

Plus a ground share at a new stadium means you need a commercial reason to buy the land of the current stadiums. Its not in a prime area of Dundee. Im not sure what the stadiums would raise or what a developer would do with the stadiums. Theres no demand for housing or commerical premises in Dundee at present.

 

 

 

It's a pity there's been redevelopment in the area - ideal world solution heritage is important so a stadium overlapping the boundary of the original 2 grounds would have been a great move. 🙂

[eyesandears]

On 26/04/2020 at 09:43, Ehllhayapeh said:

The Ogrens have been tremendous owners so far. I dont think we are in much danger. 

Not until he gets bored and realises he can only take United so far in Scottish football. You've just announced  the biggest loss in the history of your club at approx £3.7m and had a salary to turnover ratio of 133% before Shankland was even signed. This season set to be another big loss with the extra players signed and Covid-19 killing the upside of bigger crowds for your title run in.

Enjoy it while it lasts mate as take it from us on here, we have been in your movie and it doesn't end well when there is an economic downturn or your owner finally realises he's pouring his money away on a duopoly which he isn't part of and will never be allowed to be part of.

[Fort Vallance]

5 hours ago, Ehllhayapeh said:

 

Was going to happen as part of Euro 2008 Scotland/Ireland bid and be built somewhere on the riverside I believe.

 

Sadly Scotland didnt win the bid so the stadium didnt happen.

 

Was going to be 31400 capacity for the euros and reduced to 22000 for the clubs.

 

That said, Tannadice is good enough for what we need. Unless we are regularly challenging Celtic at the top end (as in real title challengers) I dont think we need a bigger stadium or would sell out on a regular basis. Im open to moving if there is a proposal to do it but right now the investment and planning is in Tannadice, so I dont see it myself.

 

Plus a ground share at a new stadium means you need a commercial reason to buy the land of the current stadiums. Its not in a prime area of Dundee. Im not sure what the stadiums would raise or what a developer would do with the stadiums. Theres no demand for housing or commerical premises in Dundee at present.

 

 

I thought the proposal was building where the ice rink is ?

If you had said a prime area of Dundee a couple of years ago I'd have pissed myself. However there's a few millions been chucked at the place recently.

[Ehllhayapeh]

1 minute ago, Fort Vallance said:

I thought the proposal was building where the ice rink is ?

If you had said a prime area of Dundee a couple of years ago I'd have pissed myself. However there's a few millions been chucked at the place recently.

The Ice Rink stadium at Camperdown is proposed by Dundee for Dundee FC only.

 

The Euro 2008 one was earmarked for the riverside or Caird Park if my memory serves me right.

 

Yes, Dundee is on the up at the moment what with the waterfront getting a billion quid chucked at it. 

[jock _turd]

35 minutes ago, Ehllhayapeh said:

Dundee is on the up at the moment

 

It is the arsehole of the universe the only way is up !

[Libertarian]

While every club is at risk, including ourselves I feel that the big club in most danger is Sevco. While we have next to no debt they are again millions in debt with substantial overheads and little in money coming in for the forseeable future.