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Scottie Wanshot.

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Scottie Wanshot.

After being at the game today, and speaking with other supporters, it's obvious what's wrong with the team.

1.  the players cant play this style of play.

2. when we send our two full back forward. and we lose the ball, the opposition hit the ball forward, and were fully exposed at the back, and they usually score, every team we play are doing this.

3, we have to play Smith right back, clare doesn't like playing in this position, and should play right midfield.

4. we must have solid back four. everyone else push forward.

like to know people's oponion.

HMFC ALL THE WAY.

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jr ewing

Silly to loan out Berra when we need a centre half who would have been ideal in today's conditions. 

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Cruyff

The full backs create the width. 

 

Smith can't beat a player, nor does he have the legs to get in behind. Clare can, that's why he plays at right back. Granted, Smith is a better defender. Smith should play Centerhalf.

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Scottie Wanshot.
3 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Silly to loan out Berra when we need a centre half who would have been ideal in today's conditions. 

he was good at heading a cross ball away. just getting a bit slow.

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Cruyff
Just now, Scottie Wanshot. said:

he was good at heading a cross ball away. just getting a bit slow.

He'd beat Halkett by about 10m over a 100m sprint. 

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Gashauskis9
2 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

He'd beat Halkett by about 10m over a 100m sprint. 

It was actually quite embarrassing watching a 25 year old Halkett getting beat for pace with a 10 yard start by players who were probably older than him.  

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Spoleto
2 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

He'd beat Halkett by about 10m over a 100m sprint. 

 

This.

 

Berra was an easy target for the boo boys but it was Halkett that was throwing him under the bus.

 

Halkett is agonisingly slow and was being slaughtered by the Hamilton CF until the sending off changed the game.

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Debut 4

We don’t seem to live by the simple theory of ‘one goes and one stays’ regarding the full backs. 
 

If one goes then we should become a back 3 with those three positioning themselves accordingly.  We seem to leave too much space down the sides when we push up the park.

 

It could be lack of awareness and football brain from our players but this happens every game just now.  Stendel needs to find that out.  
 

It sounds too simple what I said above but it’s a pretty straight forward football principle.  

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GorgieRules22

Halcketts fat and out of condition.

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One five

Hickey not match fit !fair play 

halkett slow ( has to stop eating)

souter Has to start playing the simple ball 

Clare can’t defend 

 

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letsalldothebeattie

We need to move Smith back to right back or even into a back 3 with Halkett & Souttar. Nothing against Clare he’s been excellent but we are getting so exposed I feel moving Smith back will give us a bit more security and move Clare into a more advanced role

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Scottie Wanshot.
5 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

It was actually quite embarrassing watching a 25 year old Halkett getting beat for pace with a 10 yard start by players who were probably older than him.  

doesn't look fit. to be honest, but he did score for us today.

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Jambof3tornado

Souttar and halkett cant play together.

 

I'd be dropping soapy.

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Saint Jambo
1 minute ago, Debut 4 said:

We don’t seem to live by the simple theory of ‘one goes and one stays’ regarding the full backs. 
 

If one goes then we should become a back 3 with those three positioning themselves accordingly.  We seem to leave too much space down the sides when we push up the park.

 

It could be lack of awareness and football brain from our players but this happens every game just now.  Stendel needs to find that out.  
 

It sounds too simple what I said above but it’s a pretty straight forward football principle.  

 

It appears to be Stendel's tactics. The full backs are playing so advanced that we are basically playing a two at the back. I think that is part of the reason Souttar and Halkett are looking all over the place a lot of the time. Being asked to cover as much pitch as 4 players in a normal formation. Makes it incredibly easy to get the ball in behind us as we don't have the players spread to cut the ball out. They are being hung out to dry by Stendel week after week.

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Pasquale for King
3 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

This.

 

Berra was an easy target for the boo boys but it was Halkett that was throwing him under the bus.

 

Halkett is agonisingly slow and was being slaughtered by the Hamilton CF until the sending off changed the game.

Was he, all good saw was Souttar getting beat to every high ball as the continually attacked him as he’s useless in the air and with the ball in behind. 
As for Berra he was costing us goals every week, much like the two we have just now, before Stendel got here. His wages were needed to get other players, because Levein had wasted another budget, and he can’t pass which is vital for Stendels tactics.

Halkett has now scored 7 goals in 20 games which is only a couple less than  Berra and Souttar have in 300.

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Spoleto
1 minute ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Souttar and halkett cant play together.

 

I'd be dropping soapy.

 

It seems that Halkett can't play with anybody. 

 

Common denominator.

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Spoleto
1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Was he, all good saw was Souttar getting beat to every high ball as the continually attacked him as he’s useless in the air and with the ball in behind. 
As for Berra he was costing us goals every week, much like the two we have just now, before Stendel got here. His wages were needed to get other players, because Levein had wasted another budget, and he can’t pass which is vital for Stendels tactics.

Halkett has now scored 7 goals in 20 games which is only a couple less than  Berra and Souttar have in 300.

 

Great. Let Halkett play up front and score goals because he's not keeping them out at the other end.

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Pasquale for King
2 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

It appears to be Stendel's tactics. The full backs are playing so advanced that we are basically playing a two at the back. I think that is part of the reason Souttar and Halkett are looking all over the place a lot of the time. Being asked to cover as much pitch as 4 players in a normal formation. Makes it incredibly easy to get the ball in behind us as we don't have the players spread to cut the ball out. They are being hung out to dry by Stendel week after week.

The tactics are what they are and they have to adapt, Liverpool play the same and teams don’t get in behind them because the players can defend and judge the ball forward better than our two do. Ridiculous comparison but the players have to learn, Barnsley’s did.

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Debut 4
2 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

It appears to be Stendel's tactics. The full backs are playing so advanced that we are basically playing a two at the back. I think that is part of the reason Souttar and Halkett are looking all over the place a lot of the time. Being asked to cover as much pitch as 4 players in a normal formation. Makes it incredibly easy to get the ball in behind us as we don't have the players spread to cut the ball out. They are being hung out to dry by Stendel week after week.

Agree mate. I’ve pretty much said this in debate over the last couple of weeks. 
 

While they can be picked up for some stuff, their performances are under unfair scrutiny for most part given how isolated they can be made to feel alot of the time during games.  
 

It’s last ditch defending from the half way line on many occasions!  They are dealing with numerous counter attacks on them that eventually leads to desperation and nervousness.  You can ask players to be bigger and show some bottle but at least give them a system to feel comfortable in and aid them. 

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Scottie Wanshot.
7 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

It appears to be Stendel's tactics. The full backs are playing so advanced that we are basically playing a two at the back. I think that is part of the reason Souttar and Halkett are looking all over the place a lot of the time. Being asked to cover as much pitch as 4 players in a normal formation. Makes it incredibly easy to get the ball in behind us as we don't have the players spread to cut the ball out. They are being hung out to dry by Stendel week after week.

totally agree.

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rick witter
20 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

The full backs create the width. 

 

Smith can't beat a player, nor does he have the legs to get in behind. Clare can, that's why he plays at right back. Granted, Smith is a better defender. Smith should play Centerhalf.

Smith is a good quality RB and has been since he arrived at the club. 
Sean Clare will never be a full back and neglects the defensive side of the job. He cost us goals with silly challenges and leaving the back two exposed. There is a midfield place for Clare and he had been the most improved under Stendel no doubt. 
Smith is also not a midfield player and was caught on the ball at the first goal today. Get Smith at Rb or Cb as you say and Clare wide right of the midfield. 

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Scottie Wanshot.
16 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

We don’t seem to live by the simple theory of ‘one goes and one stays’ regarding the full backs. 
 

If one goes then we should become a back 3 with those three positioning themselves accordingly.  We seem to leave too much space down the sides when we push up the park.

 

It could be lack of awareness and football brain from our players but this happens every game just now.  Stendel needs to find that out.  
 

It sounds too simple what I said above but it’s a pretty straight forward football principle.  

totally agree.

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Jambof3tornado
11 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

It seems that Halkett can't play with anybody. 

 

Common denominator.

Did fine at Livingston so I think you are wrong.

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OTT

Pretty clear the players aren't good enough to play the system demanded by the manager. The manager needs to adapt to suit the players/ league. Be that ensuring 1 full back remains back to give us 3 at the back at any given time, or midfielders drop back to support. 

 

Its shocking how bad we are at defending. I've never seen a hearts team that is defensively so ****ing shite. 

 

On the plus side, Bobby looked okay. Would keep him in for St Mirren. 

 

Our best defenders are Smith Souttar Halkett Hickey - That should be our back 4. Clare is looking confident which is great, so move him up to RM where he can focus exclusively on attacking. 

 

 

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Saint Jambo
16 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

The tactics are what they are and they have to adapt, Liverpool play the same and teams don’t get in behind them because the players can defend and judge the ball forward better than our two do. Ridiculous comparison but the players have to learn, Barnsley’s did.

 

I don't want to be harsh, but I think it is a ridiculous comparison. Our players aren't as good. We turn the ball over a lot more in midfield and up front, giving the opposition far more opportunities to play those balls in behind us every match. I also think Liverpool are better at dropping a player back from midfield into defence. Sibbick probably did a better job of that against Rangers than either Smith (an out of position right back) or Irving (inexperienced and not a defensive midfielder) are managing.

 

To say the players just need to get better is ludicrous. The players aren't going to magically become better players. If they aren't good enough for Stendel's system, it is the system that needs to change. His footballing ideals should not be more important than us avoiding relegation.

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Rogue Daddy
7 minutes ago, OTT said:

Pretty clear the players aren't good enough to play the system demanded by the manager. The manager needs to adapt to suit the players/ league. Be that ensuring 1 full back remains back to give us 3 at the back at any given time, or midfielders drop back to support. 

 

Its shocking how bad we are at defending. I've never seen a hearts team that is defensively so ****ing shite. 

 

On the plus side, Bobby looked okay. Would keep him in for St Mirren. 

 

Our best defenders are Smith Souttar Halkett Hickey - That should be our back 4. Clare is looking confident which is great, so move him up to RM where he can focus exclusively on attacking. 

 

 

I thought we looked better when smith moved to RB today. Think we should stick with this and keep Clare at RM. 

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Pasquale for King
10 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

I don't want to be harsh, but I think it is a ridiculous comparison. Our players aren't as good. We turn the ball over a lot more in midfield and up front, giving the opposition far more opportunities to play those balls in behind us every match. I also think Liverpool are better at dropping a player back from midfield into defence. Sibbick probably did a better job of that against Rangers than either Smith (an out of position right back) or Irving (inexperienced and not a defensive midfielder) are managing.

 

To say the players just need to get better is ludicrous. The players aren't going to magically become better players. If they aren't good enough for Stendel's system, it is the system that needs to change. His footballing ideals should not be more important than us avoiding relegation.

I said it was ridiculous, if the players can’t adapt it’s them that will change at the end of the season. Players can be coached into becoming better, they don't magically do it themselves. Why is Van Dijk better now than the Celtic version? 

. I’ve asked a few people this tonight with no response, what tactics actually suit this squad of players we have that were bottom when Stendel arrived, and will save us from the drop?

Edited by Pasquale for King

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Scottie Wanshot.
39 minutes ago, letsalldothebeattie said:

We need to move Smith back to right back or even into a back 3 with Halkett & Souttar. Nothing against Clare he’s been excellent but we are getting so exposed I feel moving Smith back will give us a bit more security and move Clare into a more advanced role

totally agree. but if we can see this, why cant Stendal.

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AndyNic
1 hour ago, Scottie Wanshot. said:

After being at the game today, and speaking with other supporters, it's obvious what's wrong with the team.

1.  the players cant play this style of play.

2. when we send our two full back forward. and we lose the ball, the opposition hit the ball forward, and were fully exposed at the back, and they usually score, every team we play are doing this.

3, we have to play Smith right back, clare doesn't like playing in this position, and should play right midfield.

4. we must have solid back four. everyone else push forward.

like to know people's oponion.

HMFC ALL THE WAY.

 

What seat and stand were you in today? 

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Pasquale for King
3 minutes ago, Scottie Wanshot. said:

totally agree. but if we can see this, why cant Stendal.

It was him that made the switch wasn’t it, it might’ve had something to do with playing against ten men. Sibbick May come in at RB or CH or Smith in at CH but it needs sorting out quickly obviously.

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Pasquale for King
39 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

Great. Let Halkett play up front and score goals because he's not keeping them out at the other end.

But Souttar is? Hasn’t got his old pals Levein/Macphee and Berra blowing smoke up his arse and talking about his big move that will never ever happen.  He’s been found out big time, just a pity it took most people so long to see it.

 

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Scottie Wanshot.
7 minutes ago, AndyNic said:

 

What seat and stand were you in today? 

wheat field stand section A

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ramrod

Stendels lack  of attention to detail on the defensive side of things and his zonal marking at set pieces is nothing short of embarrassing. He's killing us game after game to utter shite . 

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Saint Jambo
6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I said it was ridiculous, if the players can’t adapt it’s them that will change at the end of the season. Players can be coached into becoming better, they don't magically do it themselves. Why is Van Dijk better now than the Celtic version? 

. I’ve asked a few people this tonight with no response, what tactics actually suit this squad of players we have that were bottom when Stendel arrived, and will save us from the drop?

 

They can be coached in to better players and can gradually develop over time, but we don't have time for that and no sign of Stendel managing to coach them into much better players so far. Stendel doesn't have the luxury of carrying on playing this system and then changing the squad in the summer. We'll be relegated by then. He needs to adjust to the squad he has at his disposal now. If he can keep him up then he can think again in the summer.

 

We've gone from one extreme of playing ultra defensive to the other extreme of playing ultra attacking. There is a massive space in between the two where any manager could get better out of the squad. Play a fairly standard 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 and our results would improve. Our squad is clearly better than both Hamilton and St Mirren. We understood this when our fans were slaughtering Levein. I don't understand why so many of our fans are ignoring this now on a desperate attempt to justify Stendel's obvious failings.

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FinnBarr Saunders

The smell of Methadone is strong on this thread and not just this one either.

Edited by FinnBarr Saunders

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Scottie Wanshot.
18 minutes ago, AndyNic said:

 

What seat and stand were you in today? 

wheat field stand section A

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Scottie Wanshot.
16 minutes ago, ramrod said:

Stendels lack  of attention to detail on the defensive side of things and his zonal marking at set pieces is nothing short of embarrassing. He's killing us game after game to utter shite . 

agree

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Pasquale for King
23 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

They can be coached in to better players and can gradually develop over time, but we don't have time for that and no sign of Stendel managing to coach them into much better players so far. Stendel doesn't have the luxury of carrying on playing this system and then changing the squad in the summer. We'll be relegated by then. He needs to adjust to the squad he has at his disposal now. If he can keep him up then he can think again in the summer.

 

We've gone from one extreme of playing ultra defensive to the other extreme of playing ultra attacking. There is a massive space in between the two where any manager could get better out of the squad. Play a fairly standard 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 and our results would improve. Our squad is clearly better than both Hamilton and St Mirren. We understood this when our fans were slaughtering Levein. I don't understand why so many of our fans are ignoring this now on a desperate attempt to justify Stendel's obvious failings.

So no tactics just a formation? How do we play, do we pass the ball through the middle, down the wings and cross it in, overlapping fullbacks, long diagonals from Souttar, balls over the top?

He’s made Henderson, Clare, Moore, Irving all look like far better players than they were under Levein.. I’m not really defending him or his tactics as I can see it’s not working but plenty teams have changed manager and tactics mid season and prospered. We’re not even playing the pressing game properly and the tempo isn’t there, the ball needs to be moved quicker and they don’t even seem capable of that. Wherever we end up massive changes need to be made in every area of the team. Sibbick will hopefully make a difference wherever he ends up playing, if we can tighten up somehow we are making enough chances to stay up.

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Pasquale for King
37 minutes ago, ramrod said:

Stendels lack  of attention to detail on the defensive side of things and his zonal marking at set pieces is nothing short of embarrassing. He's killing us game after game to utter shite . 

What details? Is it his fault Souttar can’t win headers, make the right pass, the right decisions, watch the man in behind him? That the linesman makes two mistakes,  that Bobby has saved one in thirty penalties he’s faced? That Clare made a shocking challenge? Zonal marking is fine for most teams, we’ve lost more goals from corners with man to man marking than Zonal this season. Did Leveins attention to detail defensively not lead us into this mess?

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Spoleto
4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

What details? Is it his fault Souttar can’t win headers, make the right pass, the right decisions, watch the man in behind him? That the linesman makes two mistakes,  that Bobby has saved one in thirty penalties he’s faced? That Clare made a shocking challenge? Zonal marking is fine for most teams, we’ve lost more goals from corners with man to man marking than Zonal this season. Did Leveins attention to detail defensively not lead us into this mess?

 

Do you have the stats for those corners?

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SectionDJambo

Heard a tv pundit say the other day, that the main reason teams play a 5-3-2 with 3 centre backs, is that the 3 centre backs aren’t very good and they couldn’t trust any 2 of them to be secure on their own.

This is where we are, in my opinion. Halkett and Souttar are clearly not up to being exposed with both our full backs going forward. So if Stendel wants Clare and Hickey to keep doing this, he has to have 3 centre backs as security against losing possession. We are wide open with the formation we are playing and there is no sign of this changing. 
So Smith as a third centre back, perhaps, with midfield defensive cover also. If we don’t lose goals, we won’t lose. We have to stop giving away cheap goals and making it easy for the opponent to make chances by punting the ball up the field.

If Daniel Stendel insists on playing with only Halkett and Souttar as centre backs, we will be relegated.

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Jamhammer
2 hours ago, jr ewing said:

Silly to loan out Berra when we need a centre half who would have been ideal in today's conditions. 

What about when it’s not blowing a gale? He was as bad if not worse than Halkett and Souttar were today. He can head a ball. That is it these days.

Yet another who is remembered as better than he actually was

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Gizmo

A flexible 3-5-2 could probably sort our defensive issues and still allow us to switch to attack - certainly Clare could play as a wing back. 

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HardcoreJambo
4 hours ago, Scottie Wanshot. said:

After being at the game today, and speaking with other supporters, it's obvious what's wrong with the team.

1.  the players cant play this style of play.

2. when we send our two full back forward. and we lose the ball, the opposition hit the ball forward, and were fully exposed at the back, and they usually score, every team we play are doing this.

3, we have to play Smith right back, clare doesn't like playing in this position, and should play right midfield.

4. we must have solid back four. everyone else push forward.

like to know people's oponion.

HMFC ALL THE WAY.

 

Every week the large majority of us are just repeating the same complaints from the previous weeks. Clare has been ok at right back but I agree Smith is better there. Stendel needs to change the setup. For me, thats the main issue.

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vegas-voss
3 hours ago, Gizmo said:

A flexible 3-5-2 could probably sort our defensive issues and still allow us to switch to attack - certainly Clare could play as a wing back. 

Tried it in the Falkirk game.Loads of possession first half and looked a bit more sturdy but we done nothing with it and reverted back to 4 ATB 2nd half

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Voice of reason
3 hours ago, Gizmo said:

A flexible 3-5-2 could probably sort our defensive issues and still allow us to switch to attack - certainly Clare could play as a wing back. 


I would agree with this. Having Smith sweeping behind Souttar and Halkett would stop simple long balls/head flicks ending up with players right through on our keeper. With Clare and Hickey as wing backs, we’d still have width and energy to get crosses in and defend the wide defensive areas. Teams would still use the long ball tactic to counter the high press but would be forced to hit them more into the corners to avoid our central back 3. We then ‘just’ need to defend the crosses well - at least they are not 1-on-1 with the keeper after a single punt. 

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GinRummy

People arguing that the players can’t play the system is fair enough. Levein tried us in every formation imaginable with tactics changing regularly from one week to the next and they couldn’t do that either. The system will cost us goals but we’ll score more as well. No system can legislate for the ridiculous errors we are committing every single game or the fact all of our top players, Souttar, Halkett, Naismith, Boyce and Hickey were totally shite.

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The Roller
8 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

We don’t seem to live by the simple theory of ‘one goes and one stays’ regarding the full backs. 
 

If one goes then we should become a back 3 with those three positioning themselves accordingly.  We seem to leave too much space down the sides when we push up the park.

 

It could be lack of awareness and football brain from our players but this happens every game just now.  Stendel needs to find that out.  
 

It sounds too simple what I said above but it’s a pretty straight forward football principle.  


We employed that tactic at Parkhead as recently as last Wednesday.

 

That we haven’t in other games is purely down to the manager. 

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Seymour M Hersh
7 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

The tactics are what they are and they have to adapt, Liverpool play the same and teams don’t get in behind them because the players can defend and judge the ball forward better than our two do. Ridiculous comparison but the players have to learn, Barnsley’s did.

 

Agreed. The players we have though, (at CH especially) are probably not quick enough either over the ground or mentally to play this high line game. 

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MCW1976


Experience wise, Stendel is still a relatively new manager on the circuit. 
 

In the very same way that he wants his players to adapt to his style and philosophy, he maybe needs to apply that same learning technique to his own growth. He simply needs to have more tactical approaches than the one he seems hell-bent on.

 

Saying that, I just don’t think the players we have are good enough to make the adaptation.
 

Stendel thinking Avdijaj is what Hearts need is very worrying, though.

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