king.Robbo Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 something defensively is wrong and Stendel doesn’t seem able to fix it.. I would drop smith back to CH and drop one of Souttar or Halkett... then hope Sibbick is back to help Irving in holding CM role... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 Just now, king.Robbo said: something defensively is wrong and Stendel doesn’t seem able to fix it.. I would drop smith back to CH and drop one of Souttar or Halkett... then hope Sibbick is back to help Irving in holding CM role... This is absolutely what we must do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gashauskis9 Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 8 hours ago, OTT said: Pretty clear the players aren't good enough to play the system demanded by the manager. The manager needs to adapt to suit the players/ league. Be that ensuring 1 full back remains back to give us 3 at the back at any given time, or midfielders drop back to support. Its shocking how bad we are at defending. I've never seen a hearts team that is defensively so ****ing shite. On the plus side, Bobby looked okay. Would keep him in for St Mirren. Our best defenders are Smith Souttar Halkett Hickey - That should be our back 4. Clare is looking confident which is great, so move him up to RM where he can focus exclusively on attacking. I keep hearing about this defensive system that we’re struggling to adapt to. We’re not losing goals through being extravagant, we’re losing goals because we’re ****ing up the basics. Yesterday’s clown show was represented by Souttar and Halkett constantly attacking the same ball or the former fannying about on the ball too long and putting us under pressure. That’s not a ‘system’ that’s just individual players not being up to it or being bereft of any form of football intelligence. The two of them look clueless and we’re led to believe that they are the next McLeish and Miller 😮. The one that got me in the first half yesterday was a ball in the air that Smith and Halkett were in the process of jumping for and Souttar decided to leave his man, run 10 yards up the park and take them both out to win it himself. He missed it of course and left Hickey 2 on 1 (again!!!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balernojambo Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 One of the main issues we seem to have going forward is our full backs are isolated. When Liverpool play they get the ball, take one touch and put in amazing crosses for multiple players to get on the end of and score. Perhaps because of the conditions yesterday our full backs were taking additional touches, nobody was running channels to help and they were having to go back, put in rushed poor crosses or getting tackled. Like many other posters here have said, the centre half pairing of Souttar and Halkett looks terrible. Whether its the system exposing their weaknesses, Souttar being put in early after injury, Halkett being slow and overweight or just them not actually being that good i am unsure. Smith at right back or in a back 3 would probably help this but what is not going to change is us leaking goals if we start games like that or have spells like that. In my opinion, he needs to drop one of them out the team. I would put either Sibbick or Smith in there beside Souttar. For what its worth i would rather bring on Halkett up front than ever see Uche play again. He is never in 1 million years a football player. Another mass summer clear out awaits but given the signings we have seen so far i feel Stendel is definitely better at coaching a group of players than doing both recruitment and head coach so we need someone outside of Levein and McPhee in to help with that area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skacelsid Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 Why do we think DS has discovered the new Clare, he is a defensive liability, costs us big time, continually exposing his side by going missing, lowlights being bad decision making in the Aberdeen game and yesterday costing us valuable points. I am not a SC hater and he is showing more confidence and ability, but if he cannot learn the position fully he needs to be moved forward again. Would play Smith and Garruccio full back with Clare and Hickey wide midfield. Daniel's, what seems at times , 2-6-2 system does not work even against teams at the bottom, it is suicidal, he needs to stop blaming players for not following instructions and sort it out and quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mercer Takeover Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 (edited) We could of course go back in time a little and employ a sweeper, which would sort out defensive issues. The other serious issue we haven't learnt from the Levein era, is that Naismith is completely wasted unless played up front. So trying to put round pegs into round holes, I would play the following team this Friday: Zlamal Smith Clare Souttar Halkett Hickey Walker Sibbick Irvine Boyce Naismith Edited February 16, 2020 by The Mercer Takeover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 4 hours ago, Voice of reason said: I would agree with this. Having Smith sweeping behind Souttar and Halkett would stop simple long balls/head flicks ending up with players right through on our keeper. With Clare and Hickey as wing backs, we’d still have width and energy to get crosses in and defend the wide defensive areas. Teams would still use the long ball tactic to counter the high press but would be forced to hit them more into the corners to avoid our central back 3. We then ‘just’ need to defend the crosses well - at least they are not 1-on-1 with the keeper after a single punt. Tried that at Falkirk after the players moans, it failed and he said he won’t do it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Gashauskis9 said: I keep hearing about this defensive system that we’re struggling to adapt to. We’re not losing goals through being extravagant, we’re losing goals because we’re ****ing up the basics. Yesterday’s clown show was represented by Souttar and Halkett constantly attacking the same ball or the former fannying about on the ball too long and putting us under pressure. That’s not a ‘system’ that’s just individual players not being up to it or being bereft of any form of football intelligence. The two of them look clueless and we’re led to believe that they are the next McLeish and Miller 😮. The one that got me in the first half yesterday was a ball in the air that Smith and Halkett were in the process of jumping for and Souttar decided to leave his man, run 10 yards up the park and take them both out to win it himself. He missed it of course and left Hickey 2 on 1 (again!!!). Spot on, both have a lot to learn if they’re ever to get caps ahead of the other guys coming through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Wanshot. Posted February 16, 2020 Author Share Posted February 16, 2020 7 hours ago, HardcoreJambo said: Every week the large majority of us are just repeating the same complaints from the previous weeks. Clare has been ok at right back but I agree Smith is better there. Stendel needs to change the setup. For me, thats the main issue. totally agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busby1985 Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 12 hours ago, Cruyff said: The full backs create the width. Smith can't beat a player, nor does he have the legs to get in behind. Clare can, that's why he plays at right back. Granted, Smith is a better defender. Smith should play Centerhalf. You wanna sit next to me at tynie haha about the only person that regularly calls the game how I see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busby1985 Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Gashauskis9 said: I keep hearing about this defensive system that we’re struggling to adapt to. We’re not losing goals through being extravagant, we’re losing goals because we’re ****ing up the basics. Yesterday’s clown show was represented by Souttar and Halkett constantly attacking the same ball or the former fannying about on the ball too long and putting us under pressure. That’s not a ‘system’ that’s just individual players not being up to it or being bereft of any form of football intelligence. The two of them look clueless and we’re led to believe that they are the next McLeish and Miller 😮. The one that got me in the first half yesterday was a ball in the air that Smith and Halkett were in the process of jumping for and Souttar decided to leave his man, run 10 yards up the park and take them both out to win it himself. He missed it of course and left Hickey 2 on 1 (again!!!). You can come sit beside me as well haha. The system has flaws and weaknesses, like all systems but my god you can’t do a single thing about brain farts. We have a team full of them. Even if Stendel simplified it and we played straight 451, no transitions etc those players would still find a way to make mistakes. There is something fundamentally flawed in their ability to carry out instructions. I’d be willing to bet it’s because they’ve had 3 years at Leveins holiday camp getting away with murder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Wanshot. Posted February 16, 2020 Author Share Posted February 16, 2020 12 hours ago, Pasquale for King said: The tactics are what they are and they have to adapt, Liverpool play the same and teams don’t get in behind them because the players can defend and judge the ball forward better than our two do. Ridiculous comparison but the players have to learn, Barnsley’s did. liverpool have great players and Barnsley have good players. most of ours are crap, so they cant play that type of system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 How many of the experts on this thread are football managers? Must be loads and at a high level too. Maybe apply for the job next time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott980612 Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 2 hours ago, The Mercer Takeover said: We could of course go back in time a little and employ a sweeper, which would sort out defensive issues. The other serious issue we haven't learnt from the Levein era, is that Naismith is completely wasted unless played up front. So trying to put round pegs into round holes, I would play the following team this Friday: Zlamal Smith Clare Souttar Halkett Hickey Walker Sibbick Irvine Boyce Naismith This Possibly whyte for Hickey. We need to get it right at the back before we think about anything. Smith sweeping behind Halkett & Souttar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 In his league matches, Stendel has only twice consecutively fielded the same back four with the same two central midfielders in front of them: Rangers and then St. Johnstone away (Clare/Halkett/Souttar/White/Sibbick/Irving). To defend as a unit you need to know the personnel, so the sooner he finds and sticks with such a unit the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savage Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 With the standard of cb we have i think playing 3 is the answer. I would probably go with halkett and dikamona with either Smith or souttar sweeping. Souttar will never be a cb. I hope we sign 2 big powerful cb for next season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 54 minutes ago, Scottie Wanshot. said: liverpool have great players and Barnsley have good players. most of ours are crap, so they cant play that type of system Barsnley had been relegated the season before and were in league one, they weren’t great at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo-Jambo Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 13 hours ago, One five said: Hickey not match fit !fair play halkett slow ( has to stop eating) souter Has to start playing the simple ball Clare can’t defend Stop eating 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 59 minutes ago, Scottie Wanshot. said: liverpool have great players and Barnsley have good players. most of ours are crap, so they cant play that type of system What type of system is best suited to our players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 31 minutes ago, GinRummy said: What type of system is best suited to our players? I’ve asked a few folk that, nobody seems to have an answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: I’ve asked a few folk that, nobody seems to have an answer. It’s maybe because there isn’t a system in world football that can stop your goalie and defenders playing like a bunch of clowns. Edited February 16, 2020 by GinRummy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Wanshot. Posted February 16, 2020 Author Share Posted February 16, 2020 4 hours ago, GinRummy said: What type of system is best suited to our players? solid 4 at the back. has to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo Drifter Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 18 hours ago, letsalldothebeattie said: We need to move Smith back to right back or even into a back 3 with Halkett & Souttar. Nothing against Clare he’s been excellent but we are getting so exposed I feel moving Smith back will give us a bit more security and move Clare into a more advanced role I know we haven't seen much of Sibbick but I feel he gives us a bit more defensive muscle, as does Bozanic. That said, I'm mystified as to why Meshino isn't playing. Seems like one of the most naturally gifted players we have and he doesn't even make the bench when Damour does. Bonkers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 48 minutes ago, Scottie Wanshot. said: solid 4 at the back. has to be. We’re losing almost every goal to defensive mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazinho88 Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 5 hours ago, graygo said: How many of the experts on this thread are football managers? Must be loads and at a high level too. Maybe apply for the job next time Nothing wrong with expressing their opinion, surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 Its about time we starting shooting when 18yards from goal, they always take an extra yard and then it either gets lost to a defender or a shot off target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 (edited) 19 hours ago, Scottie Wanshot. said: After being at the game today, and speaking with other supporters, it's obvious what's wrong with the team. 1. the players cant play this style of play. 2. when we send our two full back forward. and we lose the ball, the opposition hit the ball forward, and were fully exposed at the back, and they usually score, every team we play are doing this. 3, we have to play Smith right back, clare doesn't like playing in this position, and should play right midfield. 4. we must have solid back four. everyone else push forward. like to know people's oponion. HMFC ALL THE WAY. The full backs were near correct position for both goals conceded on Saturday. Poor choices/play from individuals cost us. It's been too easy to blame systems/Pereira when players are making basic errors, errors that we are being punished for. Edited February 16, 2020 by Gambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upgotheheads Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/how-hearts-found-themselves-2-0-down-hamilton-and-defensive-concerns-relegation-battle-1742338 This is a very good analysis imo. The SPL is not the diddy league that some folk think it is, it's full of smart coaches and managers who have sussed our tactics out PDQ. Daniel is on a very steep learning curve, I hope he's up for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingAboutObua Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 Most people would say move Smith to CB and keep Clare at full back. Clare's excelling at RB, why move him back to midfield for him to be shite again? Smith's far faster than Halkett and moving him to CB let's us put a body and tackler like Sibbick back in CDM to replace Haring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 18 hours ago, FinnBarr Saunders said: The smell of Methadone is strong on this thread and not just this one either. Its reeking.. FTH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Wanshot. Posted February 16, 2020 Author Share Posted February 16, 2020 58 minutes ago, GinRummy said: We’re losing almost every goal to defensive mistakes. yes we are but when the two full backs push forward, we've only two defenders back, then were getting hammered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 Drop Halkett and put Smith in at Centerhalf if Sibbick is fit. Halkett to come on last 5 minds plus injury time as a striker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Scottie Wanshot. said: yes we are but when the two full backs push forward, we've only two defenders back, then were getting hammered. Aye but we knew we’d lose more goals, as well as score more with this system. I’m not saying not to tweak it by having one full back stay back if the other goes forward, it won’t solve our defensive problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 Stendels fecking greetin at how shite we are.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 31 minutes ago, Gambo said: The full backs were near correct position for both goals conceded on Saturday. Poor choices/play from individuals cost us. It's been too easy to blame systems/Pereira when players are making basic errors, errors that we are being punished for. Pereira was one of the ones making basic errors, otherwise I agree. The system getting blamed for schoolboy errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 (edited) High backline -no ****ing way do we need to be that high up the pitch any mistake or richocet and we are in trouble.Yes there are individual mistakes keep happening but no way do we need to be that exposed when they do.Stendel needs to change this. Edited February 16, 2020 by vegas-voss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upgotheheads Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 47 minutes ago, Cruyff said: Drop Halkett and put Smith in at Centerhalf if Sibbick is fit. Halkett to come on last 5 minds plus injury time as a striker. Drop our top scorer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 35 minutes ago, upgotheheads said: Drop our top scorer? Our worst defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice of reason Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 9 hours ago, Pasquale for King said: Tried that at Falkirk after the players moans, it failed and he said he won’t do it again. That’s not what he said. He said we did not need as many players behind the ball in that particular game (as playing team 2 leagues below us) but he could possibly revisit the back 3 in league games. The interview is online if you want to listen to it. I think we will as well. It’s the best way to stop losing goals to balls over the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 19 minutes ago, Cruyff said: Our worst defender. That's Souttar just now IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 1 hour ago, GinRummy said: Pereira was one of the ones making basic errors, otherwise I agree. The system getting blamed for schoolboy errors. He did make errors but others making errors were quite happy to behind Pereira taking all the blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Gambo said: That's Souttar just now IMO Nah. Souttars made a few mistakes but he's lightyears better than Halkett will ever be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, Cruyff said: Nah. Souttars made a few mistakes but he's lightyears better than Halkett will ever be. Overall you are probably right, last 3 or 4 games i would disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, Gambo said: Overall you are probably right, last 3 or 4 games i would disagree. It's a toss-up between the pair of them tbh but I know Souttar is much better than what he's shown recently and our defence would be more assured & solid with Smith alongside him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 We didn't lose either goal from playing a high back line yesterday, again. The first is missing a simple ball and getting turned, the second is a series of bad choices in possession then a stupid tackle from Clare. Both are also offside, but even at that it's bad defending. The only goal I'd say we've lost from being caught out in behind from the high line was Burke's for Killie. Arguably McCann's for St Johnstone as May exploited the space but a decent keeper saves that easily. You can argue the defence is unusually nervous and making extra mistakes because they're wary of pace in behind of course, but at the moment they should maybe try 90 minutes of not making catastrophic errors and see how we get on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcjambo Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 14 hours ago, Gashauskis9 said: I keep hearing about this defensive system that we’re struggling to adapt to. We’re not losing goals through being extravagant, we’re losing goals because we’re ****ing up the basics. Yesterday’s clown show was represented by Souttar and Halkett constantly attacking the same ball or the former fannying about on the ball too long and putting us under pressure. That’s not a ‘system’ that’s just individual players not being up to it or being bereft of any form of football intelligence. The two of them look clueless and we’re led to believe that they are the next McLeish and Miller 😮. The one that got me in the first half yesterday was a ball in the air that Smith and Halkett were in the process of jumping for and Souttar decided to leave his man, run 10 yards up the park and take them both out to win it himself. He missed it of course and left Hickey 2 on 1 (again!!!). 1 hour ago, Diego10 said: We didn't lose either goal from playing a high back line yesterday, again. The first is missing a simple ball and getting turned, the second is a series of bad choices in possession then a stupid tackle from Clare. Both are also offside, but even at that it's bad defending. The only goal I'd say we've lost from being caught out in behind from the high line was Burke's for Killie. Arguably McCann's for St Johnstone as May exploited the space but a decent keeper saves that easily. You can argue the defence is unusually nervous and making extra mistakes because they're wary of pace in behind of course, but at the moment they should maybe try 90 minutes of not making catastrophic errors and see how we get on Souttar is our best defender but the injuries he has had take time to recover from. It will be better pitches and next season before we see him back to form unfortunately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Voice of reason said: That’s not what he said. He said we did not need as many players behind the ball in that particular game (as playing team 2 leagues below us) but he could possibly revisit the back 3 in league games. The interview is online if you want to listen to it. I think we will as well. It’s the best way to stop losing goals to balls over the top. If he didn’t think we need a that many defenders away to Celtic it’s unlikely he will do it again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Diego10 said: We didn't lose either goal from playing a high back line yesterday, again. The first is missing a simple ball and getting turned, the second is a series of bad choices in possession then a stupid tackle from Clare. Both are also offside, but even at that it's bad defending. The only goal I'd say we've lost from being caught out in behind from the high line was Burke's for Killie. Arguably McCann's for St Johnstone as May exploited the space but a decent keeper saves that easily. You can argue the defence is unusually nervous and making extra mistakes because they're wary of pace in behind of course, but at the moment they should maybe try 90 minutes of not making catastrophic errors and see how we get on Burke ran from deep right in front of Souttar, past him without him reacting and even after that he strolled back leaving Burke the opportunity to shoot or pass. Poor defending, not the systems fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Cruyff said: Nah. Souttars made a few mistakes but he's lightyears better than Halkett will ever be. Can’t wait to see how these two futures pan out, at least Halkett can actually score a goal and win a header. Souttar is without doubt the most over rated player I’ve ever seen at our club and will achieve nothing in the game, much like his mentors Levein/Berra/Hughes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 10 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: Can’t wait to see how these two futures pan out, at least Halkett can actually score a goal and win a header. Souttar is without doubt the most over rated player I’ve ever seen at our club and will achieve nothing in the game, much like his mentors Levein/Berra/Hughes. If Souttar has comparable careers to any of those 3 he'll have achieved plenty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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