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FoH - final installment of BidCo payment made - share transfer likely in April

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Section Q
25 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Simple question. Are James Andersom and his mates cushioning us through this trauma? If yes, is that support conditional on Ann Budge remaining in situ? If yes, why does she need the shares? She could easily stay as CEO with FoH being owners.

That's her profit for helping us out.

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Section Q
3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Budge intends to continue as chairperson so no slot for Murray, thankfully. 

When Murray kept his parliamentary seat at the last election I was pleased because if he had lost I could see him as our next chairman. Politics aside, the man's a worm.

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OTT
5 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said:

Short to medium term what “big changes” would you expect? According to many on here it’s essentially just a formality so why not do it. Reward the thousands of hearts fans who have pumped millions into the club as was promised. AB can still run the club but it will officially be ours. 

 

Why should such an important event in our history be reduced to something as flippant as a formality?

 

If we do it at the end of the coming season it can be marked (hopefully!!) with a full house. Its a massive achievement and the culmination of years of commitment from Hearts fans across the world. I think lining it up with our (likely) promotion celebrations makes sense. We can go back up with a renewed optimism and the club officially in the fans hands. From a marketing perspective it makes perfect sense and could be an excellent method to garner more pledges. We would in effect be the UKs largest fan owned club which is excellent publicity. 

 

When we eventually have the club returned to us it should be a big occasion for the club. It shouldn't be rushed through during a global pandemic with any acknowledgement watered down by social distancing etc. 

 

Budge could sign the papers before half time and Scott Wilson announces it at half time alongside Budge and the Foundation board.  To me there isn't a better way to mark the occasion than a full house prior to being returned to our rightful place in Scottish football. A championship game isn't likely to attract much interest but could try and get Sky along so its on Sky Sports News potentially. 

 

(all under the assumption we do win the league, obviously not intending to sound arrogant about winning it first time of asking, no guarantees after all!) 

 

Regardless, even if we're talking little more than an admin issue, why not hold off and make sure its an occasion that can be given the acknowledgement it deserves?

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Lone Striker

Just started reading these last few pages ...... and I'm confused.   Can someone explain a few things -

 

What is this "debt" that folk are mentioning ? Is it a debt currently owed to a company or players ?   Is it the legal bill ?  Or is it a future debt due to having overpaid players and a reduced income from the curtailed 2nd tier league fixture list ?  Maybe all the above

 

Why the hatred of Ian Murray ?   Regardless of  whether you like Labour or not, he's a Hearts man who stepped up when we needed help.  FoH were struggling to get traction and credibility until he stepped in.    I don't understand it. What has he done to offend some folk ?

 

Who is saying "now is not the time" to transfer the shares to FoH ?   Ann or FoH ?       Regardless, it implies to me that one of them doesn't trust the other - which would be rather worrying.

 

Thanks in the hope of clarification.    🙂

 

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Francis Albert
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

If it was me I would like to stabilise the finances first. 

 

On the other hand why not just do it.

 

But controlling the timing is an opportunity. So the fans can fully enjoy it would be another consideration. 

"Stabilising the finances". We really have gone full circle. The first thing FoH did was to provide £4m to "stabilise the finances" over a three year period. Seven years under the stewardship of Ann and over £10m funding by FoH we are back in the Championship and seemingly  can't complete the FoH purchase because of the need to "stabilise the finances" including paying our debts.

You begin to wonder who was the driving force behind the success of Newell and Budge.

Edited by Francis Albert

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Francis Albert
7 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Just started reading these last few pages ...... and I'm confused.   Can someone explain a few things -

 

What is this "debt" that folk are mentioning ? Is it a debt currently owed to a company or players ?   Is it the legal bill ?  Or is it a future debt due to having overpaid players and a reduced income from the curtailed 2nd tier league fixture list ?  Maybe all the above

 

Why the hatred of Ian Murray ?   Regardless of  whether you like Labour or not, he's a Hearts man who stepped up when we needed help.  FoH were struggling to get traction and credibility until he stepped in.    I don't understand it. What has he done to offend some folk ?

 

Who is saying "now is not the time" to transfer the shares to FoH ?   Ann or FoH ?       Regardless, it implies to me that one of them doesn't trust the other - which would be rather worrying.

 

Thanks in the hope of clarification.    🙂

 

Apparently the club is in debt to Ann because she has been "acting as our bank". We have no idea of the scale or terms of her loan. As far as I understand.

Agree on Murray. Suspect that he is a Unionist may be part of the problem. He seems popular with his constituents and played a useful role in saving the club.

We don't know who is driving the delay in transfer of shares but FoH must have agreed to it because there is nothing in the (original) FoH/Bidco agreement to prevent it going ahead now or indeed a few months ago.

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soonbe110
52 minutes ago, Section Q said:

When Murray kept his parliamentary seat at the last election I was pleased because if he had lost I could see him as our next chairman. Politics aside, the man's a worm.

Agreed

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davemclaren
10 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Apparently the club is in debt to Ann because she has been "acting as our bank". We have no idea of the scale or terms of her loan. As far as I understand.

Agree on Murray. Suspect that he is a Unionist may be part of the problem. He seems popular with his constituents and played a useful role in saving the club.

We don't know who is driving the delay in transfer of shares but FoH must have agreed to it because there is nothing in the (original) FoH/Bidco agreement to prevent it going ahead now or indeed a few months ago.

Of course FoH agreed to it as they announced it. We were in debt ( as per thr last AGM ) to Ann prior to Covid arriving, we might well be more in debt now. 

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soonbe110
1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

Of course FoH agreed to it as they announced it. We were in debt ( as per thr last AGM ) to Ann prior to Covid arriving, we might well be more in debt now. 

Time to give FA a warning Dave. He just continually ask the same questions despite clearly being given the answers by posters time after time. Tedious and damaging as his intent seems to be to stir up baseless debate and intrigue on here. His inability to read and take in anything that doesn’t suit his agenda is worldclass. 

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Lone Striker
13 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Apparently the club is in debt to Ann because she has been "acting as our bank". We have no idea of the scale or terms of her loan. As far as I understand.

Agree on Murray. Suspect that he is a Unionist may be part of the problem. He seems popular with his constituents and played a useful role in saving the club.

We don't know who is driving the delay in transfer of shares but FoH must have agreed to it because there is nothing in the (original) FoH/Bidco agreement to prevent it going ahead now or indeed a few months ago.

 

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

Of course FoH agreed to it as they announced it. We were in debt ( as per thr last AGM ) to Ann prior to Covid arriving, we might well be more in debt now. 

Thanks both of you.  If some folk are basing their opinion of Murray based on  beliefs during 2014 indyref,  they really should have a wee word with themselves.   We're all united in our love of Hearts  .....  regardless of religion, political leanings , race etc. .... or aren't we ?  

 

Do we know the reason for a current debt situation to Ann ?  Related to the stand/pitch ?   Or  wage bill   (hopefully not !!) ?    She was quoted as saying a few months ago that she was determined not to leave the club with a debt at handover time ..... seems the waters are a bit muddier than I had thought. 🙄     

ter  on 

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Leveins Battalion

Where has it been confirmed Ann Budge is carrying on as Chairperson?

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ToqueJambo
16 hours ago, Last Laff said:


We are a football club and a football team though.  Open busses for financial shit is what we ripped Hibs for years for.  Now Budge is amazing because she’s done great financially although we can’t even be given the club over because there’s still a debt, a debt that she’s miss managed over.  We are sitting with no football mainly because of her judgement regardless of the money she’s squandered.  Bigger picture get it correct it’s all in from of us, of course..  right now she should be apologising as we are kicking about doing nothing just now due to her judgement. Trusting Levein for years and making out like he knows best. As she did.  

 

We've no football because of the pandemic and the SPFL's response to it. We had 24 pts to play for when only 4 behind.

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Jumper
20 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Of course FoH agreed to it as they announced it. We were in debt ( as per thr last AGM ) to Ann prior to Covid arriving, we might well be more in debt now. 

"We might well be in more debt now"  Yes possibly but come the end of next season if this boycott thing happens and folks give their "away" money to FOH we could reasonably expect to see a major reduction and in any debt? Or is my non-financially astute brain missing something obvious?

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ToqueJambo
4 hours ago, McCrae said:


Fair point if that was the only concern regarding the new stand... it’s not.

It adds to the bigger picture of mismanagement at our club and poor decision making.  The lack of attention to detail surrounding the build of the new stand is obvious.... anyone remember to order seats...


It’s a myth that everything apart from the football part of the club  was great. 
 

Now is the perfect time for AB to move on. We need someone who understands how to run a football club and the need to focus on winning games above everything else.

 

 

A global pandemic is the best time to lose the stability that comes from having an owner who has the best interests of the club at heart and lots of friends with deep pockets? Outwith Celtic and even considering demotion we are in the best financial position of any club in Scotland due to FoH and the benefactors agreeing to fund the club for another few years. That's all down to Budge. Staying alive and staying sustainable is the game for a year or however long covid is with us. It's definitely not the time to create instability for no reason.

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davemclaren
Just now, Jumper said:

"We might well be in more debt now"  Yes possibly but come the end of next season if this boycott thing happens and folks give their "away" money to FOH we could reasonably expect to see a major reduction and in any debt? Or is my non-financially astute brain missing something obvious?

I would say you are missing the lost revenue opportunity of being in a 27 game second tier coupled with the risk of no or limited fans in stadiums. 

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Jumper
1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

I would say you are missing the lost revenue opportunity of being in a 27 game second tier coupled with the risk of no or limited fans in stadiums. 

I did say I wasn't financially astute. Thanks for confirming it for me😂

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davemclaren
Just now, Jumper said:

I did say I wasn't financially astute. Thanks for confirming it for me😂

Sorry. 😄

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
32 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Time to give FA a warning Dave. He just continually ask the same questions despite clearly being given the answers by posters time after time. Tedious and damaging as his intent seems to be to stir up baseless debate and intrigue on here. His inability to read and take in anything that doesn’t suit his agenda is worldclass. 


This thread, though, shows how opaque the FOH arrangement is. The lack of detailed information shows a level of arrogance I’m afraid.

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ToqueJambo
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:


This thread, though, shows how opaque the FOH arrangement is. The lack of detailed information shows a level of arrogance I’m afraid.

 

What's not clear to you exactly and how much detail about what do you want? The website has information, they issue statements and updates and are accessible via email. For a majority of people that's probably enough, otherwise pledges wouldn't be still rising.

 

FoH is basically doing what they said they would do. How they do it is up to them. People who want detailed step-by-step updates about everything can contact FoH for that and attend the general meetings etc, or try to get on the board themselves if they care that much about the minutia of everything.

Edited by ToqueJambo

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
14 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

What's not clear to you exactly and how much detail about what do you want? The website has information, they issue statements and updates and are accessible via email. For a majority of people that's probably enough, otherwise pledges wouldn't be still rising.

 

FoH is basically doing what they said they would do. How they do it is up to them. People who want detailed step-by-step updates about everything can contact FoH for that and attend the general meetings etc, or try to get on the board themselves if they care that much about the minutia of everything.


With the greatest of respect, their statements contain no detail. I’d like them to spell out a bit more specifically what the timeframe will be and what the additional financial implications of the delay will be. Will we owe Budge more cash? What does the landscape need to look like for the transfer of ownership to take place? It doesn’t have to be state secrets but ‘at a later date’ isn’t really much of a guide 

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Smith's right boot
55 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Time to give FA a warning Dave. He just continually ask the same questions despite clearly being given the answers by posters time after time. Tedious and damaging as his intent seems to be to stir up baseless debate and intrigue on here. His inability to read and take in anything that doesn’t suit his agenda is worldclass. 

 

:greatpost:

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Mikey1874
1 hour ago, Lone Striker said:

Just started reading these last few pages ...... and I'm confused.   Can someone explain a few things -

 

What is this "debt" that folk are mentioning ? Is it a debt currently owed to a company or players ?   Is it the legal bill ?  Or is it a future debt due to having overpaid players and a reduced income from the curtailed 2nd tier league fixture list ?  Maybe all the above

 

Why the hatred of Ian Murray ?   Regardless of  whether you like Labour or not, he's a Hearts man who stepped up when we needed help.  FoH were struggling to get traction and credibility until he stepped in.    I don't understand it. What has he done to offend some folk ?

 

Who is saying "now is not the time" to transfer the shares to FoH ?   Ann or FoH ?       Regardless, it implies to me that one of them doesn't trust the other - which would be rather worrying.

 

Thanks in the hope of clarification.    🙂

 

 

Ann Budge has loaned Hearts money. £1 million or thereabouts. To help with main stand. 

 

The other question would lead me into politics. But some Independence supporters hate anyone that opposes them. 

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Toxteth O'Grady
3 hours ago, jr ewing said:

Anne Budge Stand sounds good to me. 

I will bet you anything you like it wont be called that 

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Beast Boy
59 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Ann Budge has loaned Hearts money. £1 million or thereabouts. To help with main stand. 

 

The other question would lead me into politics. But some Independence supporters hate anyone that opposes them. 


I don’t like him, because I met him. **** all to do with politics. Bit presumptuous that.

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Francis Albert
2 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Time to give FA a warning Dave. He just continually ask the same questions despite clearly being given the answers by posters time after time. Tedious and damaging as his intent seems to be to stir up baseless debate and intrigue on here. His inability to read and take in anything that doesn’t suit his agenda is world class. 

Being forgetful and repetitive is not against the board rules.

Criticising the moderation of the board, as you implicitly have just done, is

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Section Q
2 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

 

Thanks both of you.  If some folk are basing their opinion of Murray based on  beliefs during 2014 indyref,  they really should have a wee word with themselves.   We're all united in our love of Hearts  .....  regardless of religion, political leanings , race etc. .... or aren't we ?  

 

Do we know the reason for a current debt situation to Ann ?  Related to the stand/pitch ?   Or  wage bill   (hopefully not !!) ?    She was quoted as saying a few months ago that she was determined not to leave the club with a debt at handover time ..... seems the waters are a bit muddier than I had thought. 🙄     

ter  on 

 

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Section Q
2 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

Just started reading these last few pages ...... and I'm confused.   Can someone explain a few things -

 

What is this "debt" that folk are mentioning ? Is it a debt currently owed to a company or players ?   Is it the legal bill ?  Or is it a future debt due to having overpaid players and a reduced income from the curtailed 2nd tier league fixture list ?  Maybe all the above

 

Why the hatred of Ian Murray ?   Regardless of  whether you like Labour or not, he's a Hearts man who stepped up when we needed help.  FoH were struggling to get traction and credibility until he stepped in.    I don't understand it. What has he done to offend some folk ?

 

Who is saying "now is not the time" to transfer the shares to FoH ?   Ann or FoH ?       Regardless, it implies to me that one of them doesn't trust the other - which would be rather worrying.

 

Thanks in the hope of clarification.    🙂

 

Football aside Murray is a parasite and not to be trusted. I'm actually a member of the Labour Party.

Murray cares about Murray.

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soonbe110
2 hours ago, Leveins Battalion said:

Where has it been confirmed Ann Budge is carrying on as Chairperson?

FoH have asked her to continue to ensure handover goes well. They have already suggested this. It’s her decision to make. 

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mitch41
3 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

Just started reading these last few pages ...... and I'm confused.   Can someone explain a few things -

 

What is this "debt" that folk are mentioning ? Is it a debt currently owed to a company or players ?   Is it the legal bill ?  Or is it a future debt due to having overpaid players and a reduced income from the curtailed 2nd tier league fixture list ?  Maybe all the above

 

Why the hatred of Ian Murray ?   Regardless of  whether you like Labour or not, he's a Hearts man who stepped up when we needed help.  FoH were struggling to get traction and credibility until he stepped in.    I don't understand it. What has he done to offend some folk ?

 

Who is saying "now is not the time" to transfer the shares to FoH ?   Ann or FoH ?       Regardless, it implies to me that one of them doesn't trust the other - which would be rather worrying.

 

Thanks in the hope of clarification.    🙂

 

We shouldn’t have any debt. Murray talks and we get depressed. Now is the time to transfer the shares. FOH trust each other.

In the FOH board we trust. 

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soonbe110
47 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Being forgetful and repetitive is not against the board rules.

Criticising the moderation of the board, as you implicitly have just done, is

Criticism or advice.  Intended as the latter.  Further confirmation of my comment. 

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soonbe110
3 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

We shouldn’t have any debt. Murray talks and we get depressed. Now is the time to transfer the shares. FOH trust each other.

In the FOH board we trust. 

How do you work that out Mitch? Every club in the country is suffering from reduced income. Furlough is about to end. We are in a lower league.  Season tickets are 3-4K below last year at this time and prices were 10% down on last year. No walk up income until October at the very earliest. Where do you think the money to pay wages and bills is coming from?   

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mitch41

9000 season tickets sold, FOH money going in every month, league money, merchandise flying of the shelf, restaurant and bars open for business and hiring out suites in our new superdooper main stand. Plus when we get back to fans being able to attend matches you have no idea how many pies I’ll be buying with my bovril. We’ll be loaded.

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jr ewing
2 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


I don’t like him, because I met him. **** all to do with politics. Bit presumptuous that.

I worked with him. Seemed a really genuine bloke and fan.

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Beast Boy
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

I worked with him. Seemed a really genuine bloke and fan.


Just goes to show you how it’s normal for people to come to their own conclusions about people based on their personal experience. If anything, it’s great to hear that someone likes/liked him, especially someone who’s known him for a while.

 

**** all to do with independence though, as the post I was replying to suggested.

 

 

Edited by Special Officer Doofy

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jr ewing
1 hour ago, Section Q said:

Football aside Murray is a parasite and not to be trusted. I'm actually a member of the Labour Party.

Murray cares about Murray.

Good local MP, Has helped with a few problems in our area ,

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DETTY29

AB said at last AGM she-BidCo were due £1.6m which she expected to be paid back within 2 years.

 

We were also budgeting for a £400k loss to year end 30 June 2020.

 

There was also a business case for £1.6m to be signed off to complete the 2nd floor fit out once funding was secured.

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davemclaren
50 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

AB said at last AGM she-BidCo were due £1.6m which she expected to be paid back within 2 years.

 

We were also budgeting for a £400k loss to year end 30 June 2020.

 

There was also a business case for £1.6m to be signed off to complete the 2nd floor fit out once funding was secured.

The loss will will be bigger now and the redt will be deferred. 

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Section Q
2 hours ago, jr ewing said:

Good local MP, Has helped with a few problems in 

that's great he helped you.

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Toxteth O'Grady
22 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

The loss will will be bigger now and the redt will be deferred. 

She has run up a bad loss with an underperforming team and “football department”. She has the ultimate responsibility for that but still appears to be profiting from that situation, it doesn’t sit right with me.

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DETTY29
30 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

The loss will will be bigger now and the redt will be deferred. 

Absolutely....

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soonbe110
4 hours ago, mitch41 said:

9000 season tickets sold, FOH money going in every month, league money, merchandise flying of the shelf, restaurant and bars open for business and hiring out suites in our new superdooper main stand. Plus when we get back to fans being able to attend matches you have no idea how many pies I’ll be buying with my bovril. We’ll be loaded.

9000 season tickets is about £2.5m of income, league money for championship clubs is peanuts, we make about 25-30% max on club merchandise if even that, we make about £1 per pint poured if we are lucky. FoH money is £1.5m pa,. Our running costs are over £1m per month. Without another 3-4K season tickets and 2-3k walkups every home game the shortfall is huge. Again , where do we make money, or even break even? 

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soonbe110
1 hour ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

She has run up a bad loss with an underperforming team and “football department”. She has the ultimate responsibility for that but still appears to be profiting from that situation, it doesn’t sit right with me.

How is she profiting? 

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kila
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

9000 season tickets is about £2.5m of income, league money for championship clubs is peanuts, we make about 25-30% max on club merchandise if even that, we make about £1 per pint poured if we are lucky. FoH money is £1.5m pa,. Our running costs are over £1m per month. Without another 3-4K season tickets and 2-3k walkups every home game the shortfall is huge. Again , where do we make money, or even break even? 

 

We'll get some money from the Scottish Cup semi. James Anderson might throw us a bone too.

 

Squad costs can be reduced. Likes of Damour hopefully away as he already stated not wanting to be here if we're in the 2nd tier.

 

Edited by kila

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Francis Albert
35 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

How is she profiting? 

What are the terms of her recent loans. I hope it is less than 6% per annum as in the original funding.. But of course we don't know.

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Francis Albert
41 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

9000 season tickets is about £2.5m of income, league money for championship clubs is peanuts, we make about 25-30% max on club merchandise if even that, we make about £1 per pint poured if we are lucky. FoH money is £1.5m pa,. Our running costs are over £1m per month. Without another 3-4K season tickets and 2-3k walkups every home game the shortfall is huge. Again , where do we make money, or even break even? 

We are competing now with clubs with a small fraction of our income. As indeed we were last season when we won one game against the bottom six. Who is responsible for the huge shortfall you are talking about?

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Francis Albert
52 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

9000 season tickets is about £2.5m of income, league money for championship clubs is peanuts, we make about 25-30% max on club merchandise if even that, we make about £1 per pint poured if we are lucky. FoH money is £1.5m pa,. Our running costs are over £1m per month. Without another 3-4K season tickets and 2-3k walkups every home game the shortfall is huge. Again , where do we make money, or even break even? 

Sorry to quote again but with running costs of £1m per month how the hell are we are where we are now? And why do we need running costs of £1m a month to get out of a league where no.other club has even a quarter or a third of that?

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davemclaren
1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

What are the terms of her recent loans. I hope it is less than 6% per annum as in the original funding.. But of course we don't know.

How many companies publish the terms of loans they take?

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fila
12 hours ago, OTT said:

 

Disagree. The talk about Budge appointing a CEO suggests she is wanting to reduce involvement. At least in a day to day way. 

 

Also think we're in a period of great uncertainty which is unprecedented. Maintaining the status quo for just now ensures continuity. A change should be made at the end of the season. I think then with promotion and lifting the cup there will be a renewed sense of optimism which is the perfect opportunity to begin the next chapter. 

 

I've read a few more of the posts and do understand where they are coming from in wanting this done ASAP, but Covid has really shaken football and I think big changes right now represent an unnecessary risk. By the end of this coming season, all things going well we should be in a better position to complete the handover in a way which can be celebrated as an achievement. 

 

I do think we need to have a choice to whether Budge stays on after that point though. I assume a CEO will be appointed at some point this season which will mean the delegation of day to day operations from Budge to whomever that may be. I would like Ian Murray MP to throw his hat in the ring for Chairman. I think he's better suited to deal with Doncaster and his ilk. There is a way to get stuff done in Scottish football and I suspect Murray would have a better grasp on getting people round a table to achieve a specific purpose. Budge I don't feel has done a great job in that regard (reconstruction for example). Even Murray joining as 'vice chairman' or something would be good.

 

Murray would be a good shout , but not sure he want to get involved with his current role, which i would imagine is pretty time consuming.

I just think that Covid is not going away anytime soon and we are probably about as stable as we going to get.  Although I want the change to happen, equally I do not see any main issue if it delayed until at least season starts in Oct 

 

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Dunks
On 01/08/2020 at 21:35, McCrae said:


the one where the players entrance to the pitch is so small only one team can come out at a time.

 

Don't talk pish ya slaver :rofl:

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Dunks
3 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Sorry to quote again but with running costs of £1m per month how the hell are we are where we are now? And why do we need running costs of £1m a month to get out of a league where no.other club has even a quarter or a third of that?

 

We're set up as a premier league club. Yes, we've significantly cut costs due to Covid and will likely cut more, but you can't force players to leave if they don't want to and you can't just shift to a Championship budget for the team at the drop of a hat.

 

You know that.

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