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Justin Z

US Democratic Primary Elections Thread

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Justin Z

Sorry, but no. Institutional racism is not the same thing as "making mistakes". ICE and CBP's institutional racism are well studied, and beyond debate--the only debate that remains is whether it's fixable or not. I happen to think it's not, and that ICE ought to be abolished.

 

I can appreciate there are differing opinions on whether it should be done away with altogether. However, said opinions still need to be grounded in the fact that the American immigration system is institutionally racist and deeply broken (and I would argue, fundamentally unconstitutional). Claims to the contrary should not be taken seriously.

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Dawnrazor

Whyvl is the american immigration system institutionally racist?

How do you control the illegal immigration of people into the US who are usually a difficult colour and, obviously, from a foreign country without claims of racism?

I'm not looking for  an argument by the way!

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Justin Z
9 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Whyvl is the american immigration system institutionally racist?

How do you control the illegal immigration of people into the US who are usually a difficult colour and, obviously, from a foreign country without claims of racism?

I'm not looking for  an argument by the way!

 

No understood, it's all good. It's just, like the link in my last post--that's to Google Scholar's academic papers on the subject. The entire American system of government has overtones of racism--HUD (Housing and Urban Development) and its actual, written, documented policies of discrimination is one of the most blatant examples.

 

It's a fair point too what you said about many immigrants to the US being nonwhite, with the potential for creating bad appearances. But one of the ways you can see it, is the system's treatment of white illegal immigrants. Especially Canadian retirees, who have for decades illegally crossed the border every single year in droves numbering in the hundreds of thousands and lived in the United States in the winter without paying nearly the sorts of taxes or other obligations that US citizens do (such as vehicle registration tax). There has never been talk of walls, or of dubbing them "illegals" (the word is "snowbirds"--not unlike the "expat" moniker afforded to immigrant Brits).

 

No one is loudly shouting that they're breaking the law and should be deported--instead there's talk of special visas for them. Meanwhile every bit of research continues to show that immigrants, white and non-white alike, violate the law at rates lower than the general population and contribute more per capita economically, putting paid to Trump's infamous screed that Mexicans are "bringing drugs...crime...they're rapists", etc.

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ri Alban
47 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Whyvl is the american immigration system institutionally racist?

How do you control the illegal immigration of people into the US who are usually a difficult colour and, obviously, from a foreign country without claims of racism?

I'm not looking for  an argument by the way!

Australia's definitely is.

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bobsharp
1 hour ago, Justin Z said:

 

No understood, it's all good. It's just, like the link in my last post--that's to Google Scholar's academic papers on the subject. The entire American system of government has overtones of racism--HUD (Housing and Urban Development) and its actual, written, documented policies of discrimination is one of the most blatant examples.

 

It's a fair point too what you said about many immigrants to the US being nonwhite, with the potential for creating bad appearances. But one of the ways you can see it, is the system's treatment of white illegal immigrants. Especially Canadian retirees, who have for decades illegally crossed the border every single year in droves numbering in the hundreds of thousands and lived in the United States in the winter without paying nearly the sorts of taxes or other obligations that US citizens do (such as vehicle registration tax). There has never been talk of walls, or of dubbing them "illegals" (the word is "snowbirds"--not unlike the "expat" moniker afforded to immigrant Brits).

 

No one is loudly shouting that they're breaking the law and should be deported--instead there's talk of special visas for them. Meanwhile every bit of research continues to show that immigrants, white and non-white alike, violate the law at rates lower than the general population and contribute more per capita economically, putting paid to Trump's infamous screed that Mexicans are "bringing drugs...crime...they're rapists", etc.

I am sure that some become illegals, but my understanding is that most Snowbirds use the legal six month stay. I also suspect that many go for the first three months at the end of the year and the second three months at the start of the year.  This takes care of the Canadian winter. Florida, Arizona, and California the favorites.I know from personal experience doing three trips a year to Vegas that the computer keeps a record of crossings. I don't know if they share info with Canadian Customs and Immigration to monitor return dates.

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bobsharp

Listened to some reports about the current debates where the old man Sanders referred to the young man Buttisgeig as corrupt because he is receiving campaign donations from mega rich people. Nothing like filling the Republican opposition with the material to attack the possible candidate.

Reasonable debate is classic, but downright allegations of criminal and that is the general concept of corrupt is for me totally wrong. The problem with speaking something is you cannot take it back.

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alwaysthereinspirit
17 minutes ago, bobsharp said:

Listened to some reports about the current debates where the old man Sanders referred to the young man Buttisgeig as corrupt because he is receiving campaign donations from mega rich people. Nothing like filling the Republican opposition with the material to attack the possible candidate.

Reasonable debate is classic, but downright allegations of criminal and that is the general concept of corrupt is for me totally wrong. The problem with speaking something is you cannot take it back.

They’re attempting to reach the Pinacle of American politics.

They’ll eat each other to get there.

The real attacks haven’t even started yet.

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Zlatanable

Trump is going to win. 

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jake
36 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Trump is going to win. 

Does it really matter who wins?

Seriously.

Democrat Republican.

Means not a fekin jot.

 

The fake repulsion at Trump and the fawning over Obama is punch and Judy politics .

And no amount of university educated clever idiots mask that .

 

The USA has an establishment that chooses who the president is and what foreign policy will be.

It's fun for some at the moment to blame poor white trash and ignorance for our current political climate.

While ignoring it's not them running the show.

 

Clever idiots 😄

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Zlatanable
10 minutes ago, jake said:

Does it really matter who wins?

Seriously.

Democrat Republican.

Means not a fekin jot.

 

The fake repulsion at Trump and the fawning over Obama is punch and Judy politics .

And no amount of university educated clever idiots mask that .

 

The USA has an establishment that chooses who the president is and what foreign policy will be.

It's fun for some at the moment to blame poor white trash and ignorance for our current political climate.

While ignoring it's not them running the show.

 

Clever idiots 😄

I have drunk too much white wine to make heads or tails of this. 

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Justin Z
22 minutes ago, jake said:

Does it really matter who wins?

Seriously.

Democrat Republican.

Means not a fekin jot.

 

Hi.

 

Let me be the first to tell you, "get a brain transplant, myopic, clever idiot".

 

image.png.402876f63e632afbf22dad6f002035ab.png

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jake
3 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Hi.

 

Let me be the first to tell you, "get a brain transplant, myopic, clever idiot".

 

image.png.402876f63e632afbf22dad6f002035ab.png

Wasnt directed at you the uni thing.

And to be honest it's hard to argue facts when people feel morally superior as you do with my views.

After our exchange about recent events regarding policing in manchester you have me pigeonholed despite me only stating facts.

 

 

Your one example flies in the face of reality.

As an example of my viewpoint I'd cite the torture of muslims under Democrat administration.

The dismantling of muslim countries who were secular and progressive by democrat administrations.

You do accept that foreign policy is not dictated by Trump Obama or any president I hope ?

Anyway the facts are that the killing of muslims and the overall anarchy for muslims has been as much a democrat crime as a Republican one.

Your welcome to your punch and Judy.

 

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jake
30 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

I have drunk too much white wine to make heads or tails of this. 

Cool man.

There is not much sense to be had .

🙂

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bobsharp
31 minutes ago, jake said:

Does it really matter who wins?

Seriously.

Democrat Republican.

Means not a fekin jot.

 

The fake repulsion at Trump and the fawning over Obama is punch and Judy politics .

And no amount of university educated clever idiots mask that .

 

The USA has an establishment that chooses who the president is and what foreign policy will be.

It's fun for some at the moment to blame poor white trash and ignorance for our current political climate.

While ignoring it's not them running the show.

 

Clever idiots 😄

 

Jake, I am one of many who has a total feeling of repulsion regarding the person that is Donald Trump, I go as far as to say I view him as probably the most despicable man I have observed in public life. He lies, bullies, and displays so many traits of a coward. Draft dodger, terminates people but always has someone else do it, has mocked a person with a health problem that caused twitches and shakes, alleged falsely that Lt Col Sidman has an accent, I listened to his full testimony and heard no trace of an accent. Denies knowledge of anyone who is caught doing his nefarious work. If there is any fawning over Obama it is stimulated by Trump's obsesion about him, he never misses an opportunity to mention him. He lied about Obamas place of birth also, and made a complete fool of himself by doing so. He calls Biden sleepy Joe, have you heard Trump try to say the words anonymous, have you heard him say something was the orange (Origin) of another occurence, reciprocosssity (to be honest I had never heard it used 'til Trump did another word he murders, and there are many more. I contrary I am sure to the opinion of others do not consider myself an idiot let alone a university one, I do judge myself by nature, training and experience and consider myself a reasonably proficient judge of character and truth, neither of which I recognise in Donald Trump

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Smithee
On 07/02/2020 at 16:17, Justin Z said:

 

They are, but the posts I was referring to had very little-to-nothing to do with the actual topic of the thread. Where there is an overlap, it's appropriate. OTHERWISE IT'S A DERAIL. :seething:

 

No in seriousness, it's not a big deal, and my post was only intended as a gentle plea/suggestion.

 

I reckon I'm only 30% water, the rest is pure digression.

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Smithee
5 hours ago, jake said:

Wasnt directed at you the uni thing.

And to be honest it's hard to argue facts when people feel morally superior as you do with my views.

After our exchange about recent events regarding policing in manchester you have me pigeonholed despite me only stating facts.

 

 

Your one example flies in the face of reality.

As an example of my viewpoint I'd cite the torture of muslims under Democrat administration.

The dismantling of muslim countries who were secular and progressive by democrat administrations.

You do accept that foreign policy is not dictated by Trump Obama or any president I hope ?

Anyway the facts are that the killing of muslims and the overall anarchy for muslims has been as much a democrat crime as a Republican one.

Your welcome to your punch and Judy.

 

 

Ah jake I can't help smiling at the irony of the second sentence! Not in a cruel way though, you're alright by me. You certainly have your moments, we all do, but I reckon you're a decent human being who's just scunnered by the nick of the planet and I totally get that.

 

I basically agree with the core of your whole thing, that modern politics is a very narrow game within a set of accepted norms that keep the elite at the top and us exploited masses at the bottom. Everything is so unimaginative, it's all within these narrow, rampant capitalist parameters.

 

So you're right - on the largest scale nothing changes, but on smaller scales there are massive differences to a lot of innocent people's lives, men, women and children. Humanity's a worry but the safety, security and happiness of our fellow men is still worth something, they're all jakes and smithees with friends and family, good days and bad days.

Trump's a ****, a repeatedly proven ****, no one deserves him in a position of power over them.

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Justin Z
2 hours ago, Smithee said:

I reckon I'm only 30% water, the rest is pure digression.

 

In my case it's probably even more :sad:

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Justin Z
7 hours ago, jake said:

You do accept that foreign policy is not dictated by Trump Obama or any president I hope ?

 

image.png.7cb6a8caa1d409fb5557ab244b99c36f.png

 

Why in the world would anyone who has read the Constitution accept that? Is this some QAnon bullshit? Have you gone entirely off the deep end?
 

2 hours ago, Smithee said:

So you're right - on the largest scale nothing changes, but on smaller scales there are massive differences to a lot of innocent people's lives, men, women and children.

 

Smithee is 100% correct here, and the only "punch and judy" is thinking you're clever for having figured out the US acts shitty no matter who the President is, or that anyone who thinks with more subtlety about it than you do, is deluding themselves.

 

7 hours ago, jake said:

And to be honest it's hard to argue facts when people feel morally superior as you do with my views.

 

The best way to solve this is to have less morally reprehensible views. man-shrugging-type-1-2_1f937-1f3fb-200d-2642-fe0f.png

 

7 hours ago, jake said:

Your one example flies in the face of reality.

 

This for example. You're silencing the voice of a Muslim American who has suffered and will continue to suffer under a continued Trump presidency. Not a good look if you're concerned about people thinking they're morally superior to you.

 

7 hours ago, jake said:

As an example of my viewpoint I'd cite the torture of muslims under Democrat administration.

The dismantling of muslim countries who were secular and progressive by democrat administrations.

Anyway the facts are that the killing of muslims and the overall anarchy for muslims has been as much a democrat crime as a Republican one.

And the individual whose campaign I'm now volunteering for has never been a Democrat. image.png.b14d4e0f8078f34015503144fb8db648.png

 

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XB52

The only hope for America and the world, especially Palestine, is Bernie Sanders. Unfortunately I just can't see enough people voting for him. 

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Seymour M Hersh

I wonder why the US don't offer a "retirement" visa then they could add special clauses like the paying of certain taxes etc in return. That is of course if the snowbird situation is as shockingly bad as a poster would have everyone believe. 

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Justin Z
2 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

I wonder why the US don't offer a "retirement" visa then they could add special clauses like the paying of certain taxes etc in return. That is of course if the snowbird situation is as shockingly bad as a poster would have everyone believe. 

 

If there is one thing you can always be counted on for, it's your unparalleled ability to completely miss the point of anything you ever read :thumbsup:

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Justin Z
7 minutes ago, XB52 said:

The only hope for America and the world, especially Palestine, is Bernie Sanders. Unfortunately I just can't see enough people voting for him. 

 

I am trying to remain optimistic, but I do feel this too. I'm not the sort who goes around claiming "everything happens for a reason", but it would be especially poetic justice if a Trump presidency was the necessary condition to trigger the election of the first actually left-of-centre president in at least 75 years. Fingers crossed.

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Seymour M Hersh
On 07/02/2020 at 16:18, redjambo said:

 

Ah, I had no idea. I like her anyway, I hope she goes far.

 

Apparently Occasionally Coherent is a devotee of the famed economist Milton Keynes. 

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Seymour M Hersh
1 hour ago, Justin Z said:

 

If there is one thing you can always be counted on for, it's your unparalleled ability to completely miss the point of anything you ever read :thumbsup:

 

As night follows day you can be relied upon to be a boorish arrogant know it all (even when you know little or nothing). :rattus:

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Justin Z
Just now, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

As night follows day you can be relied upon to be a boorish arrogant know it all (even when you know little or nothing). :rattus:

:rofl: Aww, I've upset Hershey by calling out his habitual smooth brain takes. images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRiLwLJu0u6MDsH0qKU5jT How will I ever recover?

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jake
2 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

image.png.7cb6a8caa1d409fb5557ab244b99c36f.png

 

Why in the world would anyone who has read the Constitution accept that? Is this some QAnon bullshit? Have you gone entirely off the deep end?
 

 

Smithee is 100% correct here, and the only "punch and judy" is thinking you're clever for having figured out the US acts shitty no matter who the President is, or that anyone who thinks with more subtlety about it than you do, is deluding themselves.

 

 

The best way to solve this is to have less morally reprehensible views. man-shrugging-type-1-2_1f937-1f3fb-200d-2642-fe0f.png

 

 

This for example. You're silencing the voice of a Muslim American who has suffered and will continue to suffer under a continued Trump presidency. Not a good look if you're concerned about people thinking they're morally superior to you.

 

And the individual whose campaign I'm now volunteering for has never been a Democrat. image.png.b14d4e0f8078f34015503144fb8db648.png

 

😄 

Morning mate.

I'm in a bit of a rush running late.

Will try to answer your usual comprehensive ripping of me.

 

On your first retort no I haven't .

Well no more than usual

Let me know what you think of this.

https://swprs.org/the-american-empire-and-its-media/?fbclid=IwAR3qqaMV4rFSHVJ2sXtGfPUrhZacQYBnlxRTMaaM03e3OX1Z0H5bWO1Q3VA

 

Sorry for the messy link.

 

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Justin Z

I think it's conspiracy theorist nonsense the sort I'm used to reading from you. The CFR is a lobbying group with a lot of political influence--arguably too much. The end. Also Oswald did assassinate JFK and the US did put men on the moon.

 

Hope you got where you need to go in good time.

 

Edited to add: None of this is real either.

 

 

Edited by Justin Z

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jake
10 hours ago, bobsharp said:

 

Jake, I am one of many who has a total feeling of repulsion regarding the person that is Donald Trump, I go as far as to say I view him as probably the most despicable man I have observed in public life. He lies, bullies, and displays so many traits of a coward. Draft dodger, terminates people but always has someone else do it, has mocked a person with a health problem that caused twitches and shakes, alleged falsely that Lt Col Sidman has an accent, I listened to his full testimony and heard no trace of an accent. Denies knowledge of anyone who is caught doing his nefarious work. If there is any fawning over Obama it is stimulated by Trump's obsesion about him, he never misses an opportunity to mention him. He lied about Obamas place of birth also, and made a complete fool of himself by doing so. He calls Biden sleepy Joe, have you heard Trump try to say the words anonymous, have you heard him say something was the orange (Origin) of another occurence, reciprocosssity (to be honest I had never heard it used 'til Trump did another word he murders, and there are many more. I contrary I am sure to the opinion of others do not consider myself an idiot let alone a university one, I do judge myself by nature, training and experience and consider myself a reasonably proficient judge of character and truth, neither of which I recognise in Donald Trump

I cant watch the guy and take him seriously .

5 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

I think it's conspiracy theorist nonsense the sort I'm used to reading from you. The CFR is a lobbying group with a lot of political influence--arguably too much. The end. Also Oswald did assassinate JFK and the US did put men on the moon.

 

Hope you got where you need to go in good time.

There it is the catch all put down conspiracy theorist.

The CFR is a bit more than a lobbying group.

It currently has amongst its lobbyists Bush Bush jnr Clinton Obama .

 

 

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Justin Z
6 minutes ago, jake said:

There it is the catch all put down conspiracy theorist.

The CFR is a bit more than a lobbying group.

It currently has amongst its lobbyists Bush Bush jnr Clinton Obama .

 

Sorry but if calling a spade a spade is a "put down" then much like with the moral superiority thing, your best recourse is to stop being a spade.

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SpruceBringsteen

Loving it now. The debate was pretty good and it's been class everyone ganging up on that absolute weapon Buttigieg. Looking forward to Tuesday night to see how the DNC tries to shaft Sanders again, perhaps Chris Matthews off the MSNBC can actually break down in tears this time. :lol:

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alwaysthereinspirit
24 minutes ago, SpruceBringsteen said:

Loving it now. The debate was pretty good and it's been class everyone ganging up on that absolute weapon Buttigieg. Looking forward to Tuesday night to see how the DNC tries to shaft Sanders again, perhaps Chris Matthews off the MSNBC can actually break down in tears this time. :lol:

Photos from his honeymoon in Moscow prior to the debate would be a good start.😜

 

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SpruceBringsteen
40 minutes ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

Photos from his honeymoon in Moscow prior to the debate would be a good start.😜

 

 

Sure, but according to The Don Russia are good guys now. :biggrin2:

 

I see crazy ol' Uncle Joe is having quite the day. :laugh2:

 

 

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weehammy
On 09/02/2020 at 10:08, XB52 said:

The only hope for America and the world, especially Palestine, is Bernie Sanders. Unfortunately I just can't see enough people voting for him. 

They’d be better off with Bernie Winters. Oh wait, he’s completely dead while Sanders is only nearly!

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jake
On 09/02/2020 at 12:43, Justin Z said:

 

Sorry but if calling a spade a spade is a "put down" then much like with the moral superiority thing, your best recourse is to stop being a spade.

Well I'm not a spade.

And my moral compass is fine.

Your put down was a phrase coined by the CIA.

 

Why was my reference to the CFR was retorted as conspiracy theory.

 

Why?

 

Every single secretary of state for defence is a member as have been the  last few presidents.

If you bothered to read the article it's also a lobby group as you call it that's filled with the establishment.

You have some excellent posts but by fek you are governed by dogma.

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Justin Z
2 minutes ago, jake said:

Every single secretary of state for defence is a member as have been the  last few presidents.

 

Which one?

 

5 minutes ago, jake said:

by fek you are governed by dogma.

 

You've supported that contention exactly as well as anything else about the CFR being a one-world government shadowy illuminati organisation.

 

Not even sure what "dogma" you're talking about. If you consider my skepticism of claims being made without any supporting evidence at all "dogma", then you're right, I am governed by the dogma of baloney detection.

 

9 minutes ago, jake said:

If you bothered to read the article it's also a lobby group as you call it that's filled with the establishment.

 

Indeed, a bunch of influential people all belonging to some club means **** all if you don't have any actual evidence of any activities. Nobody I've seen does, that article included. I'm not going to blindly believe your posts and call you the chosen one to lead me to the light until you actually do it.

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jake
11 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Which one?

 

 

You've supported that contention exactly as well as anything else about the CFR being a one-world government shadowy illuminati organisation.

 

Not even sure what "dogma" you're talking about. If you consider my skepticism of claims being made without any supporting evidence at all "dogma", then you're right, I am governed by the dogma of baloney detection.

 

 

Indeed, a bunch of influential people all belonging to some club means **** all if you don't have any actual evidence of any activities. Nobody I've seen does, that article included. I'm not going to blindly believe your posts and call you the chosen one to lead me to the light until you actually do it.

I didnt once mention one world illuminati.

Another shit put down.

 

Your words were a lobby group.

My post referenced the make up of this lobby group.

Closely tied and very entwined in the worlds most powerful military machine.

 

A power base that has in the last 30 years (just so we keep it modern) lied and constructed permanent attrition against the worlds poorest countries.

 

You choose to differentiate between dem and rep administration.

The facts of policy say you are wrong.

 

I dont expect you to follow me.

I do expect someone with obvious intelligence to look at glaringly obvious facts and not cheaply dismiss such a group being viewed suspiciously as the ramblings of conspiracy theorists.

 

Read the article and discuss its merits and try leaving your personal feelings that I'm weak morally or a racist or both to the side.

I do note that the subject you feel my posts were racist you failed to answer the facts surrounding  my posts.

 

I again say it makes fek all difference to anyone who the president is if you view things on policy and action.

It's all so X factor

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Justin Z
7 minutes ago, jake said:

A power base that has in the last 30 years (just so we keep it modern) lied and constructed permanent attrition against the worlds poorest countries.

 

Correct, at least insofar as you're referencing American foreign policy in general for the past 70 years (not 30, no need to keep it modern) with special attention to Latin American, socialist governments, and the Middle East.

 

7 minutes ago, jake said:

You choose to differentiate between dem and rep administration.

The facts of policy say you are wrong.

 

Incorrect, not least because dem and rep administration is not limited to the single issue of foreign policy

 

7 minutes ago, jake said:

Read the article and discuss its merits

 

There are no merits. Once again: pointing out a bunch of people were all members of the same club is not an argument, no matter who's making it, or how "glaringly obvious" it is. That is all this article does. That and its ridiculous graphic with a trillion lines connecting to everything, I mean ffs :lol:

 

8 minutes ago, jake said:

I do note that the subject you feel my posts were racist you failed to answer the facts surrounding  my posts.

 

Also incorrect

 

 

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Bridge of Djoum
On 04/02/2020 at 14:48, SpruceBringsteen said:

With it being the first election since I moved across I'm right into all this nonsense. The caucus coverage last night was great entertainment - reminded me a lot of when the teachers were trying to sort you into houses in primary school, with three kids missing, one swinging on the ropes and the other out chasing a dug in the playground. :laugh:

Did you catch the dug?

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Bridge of Djoum
On 08/02/2020 at 07:52, Dawnrazor said:

How are ICE racist?

:cornette:

 

Count on one finger how many white immigrants are being held and forcibly removed.

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Bridge of Djoum
On 07/02/2020 at 16:49, alwaysthereinspirit said:

Trust me. You're 99.8% certain of absolutely nothing when it comes to me. Good try on the wind up though. 

To dislike her is fair enough...but calling her thick as shit? 

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SpruceBringsteen

Was pretty boring tonight, a cake walk for ol' Bernardo. Sounds like a heavy hitter or two could drop out if Nevada and South Carolina follow the same trends though. 

 

3 hours ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

Did you catch the dug?

 

Well I certainly wasn't climbing the gym ropes. Dafties game, that. :cool:

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Justin Z
22 minutes ago, SpruceBringsteen said:

Was pretty boring tonight, a cake walk for ol' Bernardo. Sounds like a heavy hitter or two could drop out if Nevada and South Carolina follow the same trends though.

 

Turnout apparently way up and looking like it might surpass 2008 levels, which were historic. The media continue to run with a narrative, and that includes "poor turnout", flying in the face of the number of votes cast. High turnout is Sanders' stated goal and key for beating Trump.

 

Honestly, the nearly-final results were closer than I expected. Thought Bernie would end up with a bigger margin of victory than this.

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SpruceBringsteen
12 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

Turnout apparently way up and looking like it might surpass 2008 levels, which were historic. The media continue to run with a narrative, and that includes "poor turnout", flying in the face of the number of votes cast. High turnout is Sanders' stated goal and key for beating Trump.

 

Honestly, the nearly-final results were closer than I expected. Thought Bernie would end up with a bigger margin of victory than this.

 

Everything I've seen from nearly every major media outlet is all that matters is who finished second and third. (DON'T MENTION THE B WORD) :laugh:

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jake

Watching the news.

Placards

Woop wooing 

Soundbites.

X factor politics .

 

And we wonder why Trump is the president.

 

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Dawnrazor
20 hours ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

:cornette:

 

Count on one finger how many white immigrants are being held and forcibly removed.

How many "white" immigrants are there compared to "non white"?

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jake

 

4 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

How many "white" immigrants are there compared to "non white"?

Not many I'd say.

The truth is that the white migration happened before migration control.

We Europeans migrated to the USA and I bet the natives wished they had controls.

 

 

Now isnt that a lesson about why we need controls ?

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bobsharp
15 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

How many "white" immigrants are there compared to "non white"?

 

I think the problem wih the distinction between the treatment of immigrants is a lot in the semantics. The people being held at the moment as I understand it are illegal immigrants in that they have not followed the official procedures required to immigrate. Many are also asylum seekers who may not be from areas or have problems that are applicable to those seeking asylum. There is no argument that the people in the camps are predominantly if not totally non white. I believe the policy in the past was that they would be processed and that they would be released into the United States while their process was completed. This it is alleged I don't personally know the figures but is stated to be many who did not return after process to see if they qualified for full residence, this was deemed a problem. The numbers seeking entry is now because of various locales suffering unrest politicaclly, and is too much to handle in the old way. Thus has caused the introduction of camps that are to most of us abhorrent. It does not alleviate for me the acceptance of blame by those individuals who deliberately flaunt the rules.

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ri Alban
6 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

How many "white" immigrants are there compared to "non white"?

For white immigrants, see expats.

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Bridge of Djoum
15 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

How many "white" immigrants are there compared to "non white"?

I don't want to de-rail the thread but I'll answer.

 

Of course the biggest number of illegal immigrants in the US are Latino. However, having lived in NYC I've met countless numbers of Europeans and Canadians who over stayed their Visa, took advantage of the Visa waiver or simply bought a one way ticket. I've yet to meet one who fears being kicked out of the country. Not one. They simply are not being looked for. They pay taxes, some actually own businesses. They live pretty openly. Walk into any Irish bar in NYC and I'll guarantee there are Irish folk working illegally. I live in New England now and I've encountered the same situation in Boston, Providence and Connecticut.  the only draw back is they risk being found out if they leave the country and attempt to come back. It's an entirely different story for Latinos. They tend to work very low paid, cash in hand jobs. I've met many who do fear for their status. 

 

The guidelines and practices of ICE are absolutely based on race. You just cannot deny that.

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Bridge of Djoum
16 hours ago, jake said:

 

Not many I'd say.

The truth is that the white migration happened before migration control.

We Europeans migrated to the USA and I bet the natives wished they had controls.

 

 

Now isnt that a lesson about why we need controls ?

You need a quick history lesson. 

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