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Justin Z

US Democratic Primary Elections Thread

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Justin Z

Starting with the Iowa caucuses overnight . . .

 

Democrats fail to announce results of Iowa caucus

 

A glitch with the Iowa Democratic party’s reporting app combined with a failure of its telephonic back-up system meant the party was unable to announce the results of any of nearly 1,700 caucuses across the state, local officials said. “Everyone’s having trouble calling in the results,” said Des Moines County co-chairman Tom Courtney.

 

Officials tasked with reporting results at county level have indicated the app crashed when they tried to submit their data. Those who are inclined to think the Democrats have it out for Bernie Sanders are calling this glitch intentional because he has won the caucuses. Pete Buttigieg has claimed victory. Sanders has released internal numbers showing he is in the lead. Biden looks to have done absolutely horribly.

 

And indeed, in Des Moines at one caucus, only Sanders, Warren and Buttigieg were viable after the first vote. No sign of Biden, Klobuchar or Yang.

 

Still, the general feeling is that Iowa has become meaningless and now after all these problems, even a bit of a laughingstock. It's not really a battleground state anymore in the US's weird and entirely undemocratic presidential election system and there'll be even less attention on it in 2024 than there was this year.

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Justin Z

Word is that the company which developed the app for the DNC, Shadow (no joke), was given money by the Buttigieg campaign. The company has 79 accounts it follows on Twitter and one of them, Democratic Majority for Israel (@DemMaj4Israel) launched some attack ads against Sanders last week. This information seems sound. Less sound is the allegation that there is CIA involvement. One pretty dark joke I saw--"A first: a cia coup in a country without an American embassy in it". :rofl:

 

Still, we can all remember when the entire western worled claimed incumbent socialist president Evo Morales had stolen the Bolivian election when results reporting there was paused for a few hours.

 

Well it's currently 3:30am Iowa time and as yet we have absolutely nothing official. So who knows, maybe the USA should try forced regime change as its new method for choosing its leaders.

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hughesie27

What are these votes for?

 

What the hell is a caucus?

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Justin Z
19 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

What are these votes for?

 

What the hell is a caucus?

 

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=caucus

 

:thumbsup:

 

In a nutshell--Iowa is the first state to choose its presidential candidates. The entire US system is pretty undemocratic and gives various states extra importance based on how early they make their primary candidate decision--instead of doing it all at once.

 

A caucus is basically a meeting where everyone who lives in a certain area and wants to participate gathers, and they have a bunch of conversations and then numerous straw polls in a sort of alternative voting system to weed out "un-viable" candidates until only candidates who end with a certain percentage of voters are left.

 

Therefore the caucus system is distinct from the typical American first-past-the-post anonymous voting system in booths. The majority of states will hold their primary elections in this style, not in caucus style. Only a small handful of states use the caucus system.

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Kalamazoo Jambo

Caucuses are an awful, undemocratic idea. Their very nature restricts participation (you have to be able to spend a couple of hours at a set time on a set day or you don’t get to participate at all) and your decision is not secret. Ideally I’d like to see Iowa lose its place as first in the nation (it isn’t even close to being representative of the country as a whole) and replace caucuses with a ballot in future.

 

Anyway, what is happening in Iowa is a farce and the conspiracy theories are already ramping up. Great job, Iowa Democrats

:facepalm:

 

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alwaysthereinspirit

Trump won the Iowa Republican caucus. 97% of the vote. Easy peasy for that App. Even with maybe a 5% plus or minus.

According to numbers I saw last night, about 32% of Iowa voters are registered as Democrat and 31% as Republicans. The remaining 37% unregistered.

That's a lot of unknowns going into a general election. Not sure if those numbers are normal every 4 years.

Bernie has to be thinking he's getting screwed again.

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Justin Z
14 minutes ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

Caucuses are an awful, undemocratic idea. Their very nature restricts participation (you have to be able to spend a couple of hours at a set time on a set day or you don’t get to participate at all) and your decision is not secret.

 

Good post. All true. And yet somehow all of that is more democratic than . . .

 

image.png.25573c7e7ac8cbb563964b1beb49e8d4.png

 

:facepalm: indeed.

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Kalamazoo Jambo
8 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Good post. All true. And yet somehow all of that is more democratic than . . .

 

image.png.25573c7e7ac8cbb563964b1beb49e8d4.png

 

:facepalm: indeed.

 

I think the Buttigieg payment was for services essentially unrelated to the app itself (per LA Times reporting), however Buttigieg is not doing himself any favo(u)rs with his speech. He seems to be trying very hard to make himself unpopular with undecided Dems.

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Sharpie

So what we have at the moment, a failed Impeachment, an inability to get in a semi even, efficient manner Caucus result.  To an outside observer it seems that the Democrats have a party of whom the candidates are so split on their platforms that there is even some pretty good rifts happening, the leading contenders are two old men, one of whom the President has pilloried because of his sons connection to a firm that has been reputed to be corrupt.The third is a woman who has been used by the President to identify her as a liar, naming her as Pocohontas as a result of her claims to be part native American. So far they are indicating they are less capable of electing a President in competition with a man who has been a proven liar, who it seems every time he opens his mouth either tells a lie, shows his ignorance, is supported by the religious right despite having broken every tenet they have, and yeilds to every industry and corporation that offer support.

There are times when facts point to you that your term in this life is ebbing, and it is a relief, What is that famous rousing song, with words once sang by a woman named Kate Smith soon to become God Help America.

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coconut doug
41 minutes ago, bobsharp said:

So what we have at the moment, a failed Impeachment, an inability to get in a semi even, efficient manner Caucus result.  To an outside observer it seems that the Democrats have a party of whom the candidates are so split on their platforms that there is even some pretty good rifts happening, the leading contenders are two old men, one of whom the President has pilloried because of his sons connection to a firm that has been reputed to be corrupt.The third is a woman who has been used by the President to identify her as a liar, naming her as Pocohontas as a result of her claims to be part native American. So far they are indicating they are less capable of electing a President in competition with a man who has been a proven liar, who it seems every time he opens his mouth either tells a lie, shows his ignorance, is supported by the religious right despite having broken every tenet they have, and yeilds to every industry and corporation that offer support.

There are times when facts point to you that your term in this life is ebbing, and it is a relief, What is that famous rousing song, with words once sang by a woman named Kate Smith soon to become God Help America.

 

Enter : Hillary Clinton to save the day and the world.

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Kalamazoo Jambo

I should add that while what is going on in Iowa is a fiasco, it would be virtually impossible to rig the final result. By their nature, the decision-making in the caucuses is done in public, and all results are recorded in writing.

 

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redjambo
36 minutes ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

I should add that while what is going on in Iowa is a fiasco, it would be virtually impossible to rig the final result. By their nature, the decision-making in the caucuses is done in public, and all results are recorded in writing.

 

 

Indeed. The comments being made from certain quarters on the caucus result being a fix are just rabble-rousing. One of the aspects that makes me really despair of politics, magnified a hundred-fold by the internet.

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Dawnrazor

Great result by Trump, he's managed to win both the Republican AND Democratic caucuses!!!

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Cade

The increasing use of easily hackable and manipulated technology in the USA voting system is scary.

I'd not trust a single voting result.

 

Having said that, they were bad enough with the hole-punch cardboard ballots in the stolen 2000 election.

:gok:

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SpruceBringsteen

With it being the first election since I moved across I'm right into all this nonsense. The caucus coverage last night was great entertainment - reminded me a lot of when the teachers were trying to sort you into houses in primary school, with three kids missing, one swinging on the ropes and the other out chasing a dug in the playground. :laugh:

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willie wallace
1 hour ago, SpruceBringsteen said:

With it being the first election since I moved across I'm right into all this nonsense. The caucus coverage last night was great entertainment - reminded me a lot of when the teachers were trying to sort you into houses in primary school, with three kids missing, one swinging on the ropes and the other out chasing a dug in the playground. :laugh:

😄😄Watched a bit of CNN earlier and that is more or less what they were saying.

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redjambo
22 minutes ago, willie wallace said:

😄😄Watched a bit of CNN earlier and that is more or less what they were saying.

 

Perhaps a new format with all the candidates playing Musical Chairs might prove an entertaining replacement.

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Morgan
25 minutes ago, willie wallace said:

😄😄Watched a bit of CNN earlier and that is more or less what they were saying.

Bet they didn’t say ‘dug’ though?

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Lovecraft
4 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

Great result by Trump, he's managed to win both the Republican AND Democratic caucuses!!!

😁

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ri Alban

I bet this wouldn't happen if they had Huawei. 😀

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Justin Z

image.png.be9b412c916a8ebec823b94788c20f54.png

 

New Hampshire up next Tuesday. Polls are showing Buttigieg and Sanders in a dead heat. Biden's fall continues. Warren basically knocked herself out of contention; Yang was never really in contention in the first place.

 

Meanwhile Five Thirty-Eight's numbers look very, very good for Bernie.

 

image.png.dae3ab71ef912908d38fe3d46279bda9.png

 

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Cade

Bernie may be in the right with his policies and arguments, but the very fact that he's ever so slightly left of centre means he has ZERO chance of winning a Presidential election.

The press will simply call him a commie and that'll be that.

 

Biden's a snake.

Warren's a black hole where a candidate should be.

Buttigieg is the only hope the Democrats have, and that in itself is a dire state of affairs.

 

Trump's an absolute shoo-in for a 2nd term if this is the best the Dems can come up with.

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redjambo
5 minutes ago, Cade said:

Bernie may be in the right with his policies and arguments, but the very fact that he's ever so slightly left of centre means he has ZERO chance of winning a Presidential election.

The press will simply call him a commie and that'll be that.

 

Biden's a snake.

Warren's a black hole where a candidate should be.

Buttigieg is the only hope the Democrats have, and that in itself is a dire state of affairs.

 

Trump's an absolute shoo-in for a 2nd term if this is the best the Dems can come up with.

 

Sadly, I'm coming around to thinking this too.

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Des Lynam

The Democrats are complicit in Donald being President and remaining as such. I wouldn’t worry about four more years I’d be concerned this idiot never leaves office. 

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Justin Z

Let's try to keep chat about the General Election and Trump off this thread, please? We already have a thread for that. This thread was opened to specifically talk about the Democratic Primary Election.

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ri Alban
15 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

Let's try to keep chat about the General Election and Trump off this thread, please? We already have a thread for that. This thread was opened to specifically talk about the Democratic Primary Election.

What would you like to see happen, JZ?

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Justin Z
6 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

What would you like to see happen, JZ?

 

For the Democratic establishment to get burned to the ground in advance of Bernie's landslide victory, with the GOP establishment next on the chopping block.

 

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ri Alban
Just now, Justin Z said:

 

For the Democratic establishment to get burned to the ground in advance of Bernie's landslide victory, with the GOP establishment next on the chopping block.

 

Other than that?

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Justin Z
1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

Other than that?

 

:lol: I thought that was pretty explicit. What else would you like to know?

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ri Alban
1 minute ago, Justin Z said:

 

:lol: I thought that was pretty explicit. What else would you like to know?

Something reasonable. But hey, we could just paint the white house again, post burning down. :D

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Justin Z
Just now, ri Alban said:

Something reasonable. But hey, we could just paint the white house again, post burning down. :D

 

Haha. I mean, I do actually think if Bernie wins in the face of this blatantly obvious campaign within the Democratic Party against him, and with the assistance of even the so-called "left-wing" (lol) media--the Democratic establishment is likely to be permanently damaged and on its way to being wiped out, and I do think there'll be a knock-on effect if he's successful in the General.

 

At worst it'll force a serious shift in general policy amongst the Dems, and also probably knock on to the Republican side, which can only be a good thing.

 

But yeah, I mean, this is the alleged "librul-biased" media:

 

https://twitter.com/Nitzky89/status/1225628501153157121

 

Bernie has it all to do. I'll be volunteering for his campaign from next week.

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redjambo
24 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Haha. I mean, I do actually think if Bernie wins in the face of this blatantly obvious campaign within the Democratic Party against him, and with the assistance of even the so-called "left-wing" (lol) media--the Democratic establishment is likely to be permanently damaged and on its way to being wiped out, and I do think there'll be a knock-on effect if he's successful in the General.

 

At worst it'll force a serious shift in general policy amongst the Dems, and also probably knock on to the Republican side, which can only be a good thing.

 

But yeah, I mean, this is the alleged "librul-biased" media:

 

https://twitter.com/Nitzky89/status/1225628501153157121

 

Bernie has it all to do. I'll be volunteering for his campaign from next week.

 

Is that the general election that we're no longer allowed to talk about on this thread? :wink: (difficult to disassociate the two, to be honest)

 

So, if Bernie makes it through (which will make Larry David for one very happy, I imagine :biggrin2:), who do you fancy he might select as his running mate? Any chance you think that it might be Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez? Or does she need more experience?

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Smithee
1 hour ago, Justin Z said:

Let's try to keep chat about the General Election and Trump off this thread, please? We already have a thread for that. This thread was opened to specifically talk about the Democratic Primary Election.

 

The subjects are pretty closely related mate, you keep in lane if you like but digressions are normal and to be expected.

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Justin Z
4 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Is that the general election that we're no longer allowed to talk about on this thread? :wink: (difficult to disassociate the two, to be honest)

 

Haha knew I'd get picked on for that. :thumbsup:

 

5 minutes ago, redjambo said:

So, if Bernie makes it through (which will make Larry David for one very happy, I imagine :biggrin2:), who do you fancy he might select as his running mate? Any chance you think that it might be Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez? Or does she need more experience?

 

Ocasio-Cortez is too young to be eligible for Vice President (minimum age 35, she's 30). She does need more experience anyway, and also, she already endorsed him. Vice Presidential picks are usually highly strategic.

 

Sanders I could see picking a "centrist", probably a woman. Every candidate, I think there's a good chance you would see them pick a running mate of the other sex actually. Mayo Pete (typo intentional), I would not be shocked at all if it was a woman of colour.

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Justin Z
3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

The subjects are pretty closely related mate, you keep in lane if you like but digressions are normal and to be expected.

 

They are, but the posts I was referring to had very little-to-nothing to do with the actual topic of the thread. Where there is an overlap, it's appropriate. OTHERWISE IT'S A DERAIL. :seething:

 

No in seriousness, it's not a big deal, and my post was only intended as a gentle plea/suggestion.

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redjambo
1 minute ago, Justin Z said:

 

Haha knew I'd get picked on for that. :thumbsup:

 

 

Ocasio-Cortez is too young to be eligible for Vice President (minimum age 35, she's 30). She does need more experience anyway, and also, she already endorsed him. Vice Presidential picks are usually highly strategic.

 

Sanders I could see picking a "centrist", probably a woman. Every candidate, I think there's a good chance you would see them pick a running mate of the other sex actually. Mayo Pete (typo intentional), I would not be shocked at all if it was a woman of colour.

 

Ah, I had no idea. I like her anyway, I hope she goes far.

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ri Alban

👍

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Maple Leaf
26 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

They are, but the posts I was referring to had very little-to-nothing to do with the actual topic of the thread. Where there is an overlap, it's appropriate. OTHERWISE IT'S A DERAIL. :seething:

 

No in seriousness, it's not a big deal, and my post was only intended as a gentle plea/suggestion.

 

Good luck with keeping any thread on topic on JKB, and I'm speaking from experience. :thumb:

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Justin Z
Just now, Maple Leaf said:

Good luck with keeping any thread on topic on JKB, and I'm speaking from experience. :thumb:

 

:lol: Yes you certainly are!

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alwaysthereinspirit
1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

Is that the general election that we're no longer allowed to talk about on this thread? :wink: (difficult to disassociate the two, to be honest)

 

So, if Bernie makes it through (which will make Larry David for one very happy, I imagine :biggrin2:), who do you fancy he might select as his running mate? Any chance you think that it might be Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez? Or does she need more experience?

Hillary just said she would be willing to be a Vice President candidate if the chance came up.

Imagine having that behind you when she’s one step away from your last heart beat to be President. 

AOC (I call her OMG) for obvious reasons has no chance. Ever. Thick as $#!t.

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Justin Z
2 minutes ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

Hillary just said she would be willing to be a Vice President candidate if the chance came up.

Imagine having that behind you when she’s one step away from your last heart beat to be President. 

AOC (I call her OMG) for obvious reasons has no chance. Ever. Thick as $#!t.

 

I'd like you to explain this, if you don't mind.

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Sharpie

It is hard to believe that the possible lead candidates for the Presidential election is an old man who recently had a heart attack, is fodder for comedians of every ilk, and is seen by many as a far left socialist. His opponent,the incumbent is an adulterous liar, a draft dodger, and one who cohorted with a foreign leader to enhance his election chances, who counts as close friends and allies two dictators who are both the leaders of countries that for years have been adversaries of the United States.  Now the animosity between the rival politcical parties is more venomous than the relationships between two mortal enemies has become.

Just like last election this one has the possibility of being decided by the antiquated Electoral College system where the peoples choice is overruled by a Constitution that the sitting President and his party supporters ridiculed, commited an act contrary to the Constitution by approaching an Impeachment with a non Impartial attitude that betrayed the Oath of Impartiality they swore prior to the Impeachment trial

God must be sitting shaking his head, because I know I am.

Edited by bobsharp

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alwaysthereinspirit
1 hour ago, Justin Z said:

 

I'd like you to explain this, if you don't mind.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/aoc-is-the-gift-that-keeps-giving-11563404196

This is just a small sample of her thoughts on what we can do as a country to be better. 

You have the internet. You go next and post something that doesn't make her appear dumber than a stump.

Then I'll go again. Trust me, you wont change my mind on this.

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The Frenchman Returns

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Justin Z
1 hour ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/aoc-is-the-gift-that-keeps-giving-11563404196

This is just a small sample of her thoughts on what we can do as a country to be better. 

You have the internet. You go next and post something that doesn't make her appear dumber than a stump.

Then I'll go again. Trust me, you wont change my mind on this.

 

K as far as I could read without subscribing to the Wall Street Journal, she wants to get rid of ICE, presumably because it's a racist, unconstitutional garbage organisation that has wasted billions of dollars to make nobody safer and terrorise minorities and the general public. So yeah, I'm on board with that.

 

My turn eh? Alright.

 

- Double majored at Boston University in International Relations and Economics.

- Worked as an intern in Ted Kennedy's Senate Office while at uni.

- Decided to start campaigning for a House of Representatives seat whilst working as a bartender.

- Fundraised to the point she could outspend her primary opponent 10:1 and primaried ten term incumbent Joe Crowley in a 57-42 landslide.

- Created an excellent, illustrative scenario with government political campaign watchdogs in pointing out how broken the campaign finance system is.

- She owned the ever living **** out of Sean Duffy who tried to call her Green New Deal plans "elitist". She responded, "You want to tell people that their concern and their desire for clean air and clean water is elitist? . . . Science should not be partisan."

- She is always as well prepared for hearings like this--better than just about any Member of Congress.

 

Needless to say, I'm about 99.8% certain the reason I'm not going to "change your mind on this" has nothing to do with how intelligent, well prepared and excellent of a junior politician she objectively is, mate.

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alwaysthereinspirit
10 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

K as far as I could read without subscribing to the Wall Street Journal, she wants to get rid of ICE, presumably because it's a racist, unconstitutional garbage organisation that has wasted billions of dollars to make nobody safer and terrorise minorities and the general public. So yeah, I'm on board with that.

 

My turn eh? Alright.

 

- Double majored at Boston University in International Relations and Economics.

- Worked as an intern in Ted Kennedy's Senate Office while at uni.

- Decided to start campaigning for a House of Representatives seat whilst working as a bartender.

- Fundraised to the point she could outspend her primary opponent 10:1 and primaried ten term incumbent Joe Crowley in a 57-42 landslide.

- Created an excellent, illustrative scenario with government political campaign watchdogs in pointing out how broken the campaign finance system is.

- She owned the ever living **** out of Sean Duffy who tried to call her Green New Deal plans "elitist". She responded, "You want to tell people that their concern and their desire for clean air and clean water is elitist? . . . Science should not be partisan."

- She is always as well prepared for hearings like this--better than just about any Member of Congress.

 

Needless to say, I'm about 99.8% certain the reason I'm not going to "change your mind on this" has nothing to do with how intelligent, well prepared and excellent of a junior politician she objectively is, mate.

Trust me. You're 99.8% certain of absolutely nothing when it comes to me. Good try on the wind up though. 

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Justin Z
17 minutes ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

Trust me. You're 99.8% certain of absolutely nothing when it comes to me. Good try on the wind up though. 

 

And, not exactly surprisingly, zero substance with which to rebut. 99.8% sure that's because you have none. :thumbsup:

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Dawnrazor

How are ICE racist?

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Justin Z
1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

How are ICE racist?

 

Oh, who knows really man-shrugging-type-1-2_1f937-1f3fb-200d-2642-fe0f.png

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Dawnrazor
8 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

So "ICE makes mistakes" aye, and?

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