Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Ray Gin]

1 hour ago, indianajones said:

Watched the news last night for the first time in many years. 

 

Whats happening in France is criminal. You must be vaccinated to do anything there by the sounds of it. 

 

Good for them. Anti-vax halfwits can cower behind their sofas from the big scary vaccines if they choose to do so, while the rest of society get on with their lives, unhindered by their stupidity.

 

[indianajones]

6 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Good for them. Anti-vax halfwits can cower behind their sofas from the big scary vaccines if they choose to do so, while the rest of society get on with their lives, unhindered by their stupidity.

 

 

Most didnt appear anti-vax. 

 

Rest of society? What about those in society that cannot take the 'big scary vaccine' due to health or religious reasons?

 

The way its been handled over there is nothing short of bribery. Take this vaccine or we remove some of your human rights.

 

Absolute authority.

 

 

 

 

[Ray Gin]

Just now, indianajones said:

 

Most didnt appear anti-vax. 

 

Rest of society? What about those in society that cannot take the 'big scary vaccine' due to health or religious reasons?

 

The way its been handled over there is nothing short of bribery. Take this vaccine or we remove some of your human rights.

 

Absolute authority.

 

 

 

 

 

**** religion tbh

 

Anyone who can't take it for health reasons will get a certificate much like the ones for the vaccinated.

 

[Ray Gin]

No mucking about from Macron.

 

"Macron was uncompromising with the (powerful) anti-vax movement in France: “I no longer have any intention of sacrificing my life, my time, my freedom and the adolescence of my daughters, as well as their right to study properly, for those who refuse to be vaccinated.
 

"This time you stay at home, not us.”

[Dirty Deeds]

The biggest obstacle to fully opening now are the anti-vaxers. Time to stop protecting them and leave them to the consequences of their decisions. 

[151]

9 minutes ago, indianajones said:

 

Most didnt appear anti-vax. 

 

Rest of society? What about those in society that cannot take the 'big scary vaccine' due to health or religious reasons?

 

The way its been handled over there is nothing short of bribery. Take this vaccine or we remove some of your human rights.

 

Absolute authority.

 

 

 

 

 

Mental isn't it. The folk on here going on about "the big scary vaccine" and talk about brainwashing etc but are happy to give over their human rights in the name of "the greater good" and "big scary Covid".

 

There are idiots on both sides and the irony seems lost.

[Taffin]

5 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

**** religion tbh

 

Anyone who can't take it for health reasons will get a certificate much like the ones for the vaccinated.

 

 

Why are there physical health exceptions but not mental health exceptions?

 

If it conflicts strongly with someone's beliefs that's likely to cause them mental health issues then to force them to take it against their will just to live a normal life seems unjust.

 

Seems pretty outdated to me.

 

 

[Ray Gin]

2 minutes ago, 151 said:

 

Mental isn't it. The folk on here going on about "the big scary vaccine" and talk about brainwashing etc but are happy to give over their human rights in the name of "the greater good" and "big scary Covid".

 

There are idiots on both sides and the irony seems lost.

 

The irony in my rhetoric is very deliberate.

 

However I'm not giving over any human rights. I'm fully vaccinated, I'll be able to do what I want.

 

[Ray Gin]

3 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Why are there physical health exceptions but not mental health exceptions?

 

If it conflicts strongly with someone's beliefs that's likely to cause them mental health issues then to force them to take it against their will just to live a normal life seems unjust.

 

Seems pretty outdated to me.

 

 

 

I'm not sure being religious counts as a valid mental illness.

 

[151]

Just now, Ray Gin said:

 

The irony in my rhetoric is very deliberate.

 

However I'm not giving over any human rights. I'm fully vaccinated, I'll be able to do what I want.

 

 

Yes because you were told to do something. That is the point I was making. You say folk are scared of a "big scary vaccine", but you only got said vaccine because you were forced to to do said things, or were scared of a virus they admitted inflating the death numbers of. 

 

Again, absolute morons on both sides. Actually to the point I believe if the government suddenly said they had to take parents away from their children because it stopped transmission folk would buy into it and happily do it and call the rest "sheeple" or "anti-parents". 

[Ray Gin]

3 minutes ago, 151 said:

 

Yes because you were told to do something. That is the point I was making. You say folk are scared of a "big scary vaccine", but you only got said vaccine because you were forced to to do said things, or were scared of a virus they admitted inflating the death numbers of. 

 

Again, absolute morons on both sides. Actually to the point I believe if the government suddenly said they had to take parents away from their children because it stopped transmission folk would buy into it and happily do it and call the rest "sheeple" or "anti-parents". 

 

I didn't take the vaccine because I was told to. I took it because I wanted it, way before any talk of proof of vaccination being required to do certain things.

Edited July 29, 2021 by Ray Gin

[Ray Gin]

Just now, jonesy said:

 

 

 

Exactly how I felt last year about lockdowns. I had no intention of sacrificing a year of my life while the Keechie Breek Brigade binged Netflix and waited for the macabre death stats to get published every day.

 

People were able to make informed decisions about whether or not they mixed with other people in potentially transmissible venues and contexts. 

 

Hope you enjoyed your year of doing exactly what you were told to do and cowering behind your sofa, Ray Baby.

 

Glad you recognised whose rhetoric I was satirising.

 

 

[Beni]

11 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

No mucking about from Macron.

 

"Macron was uncompromising with the (powerful) anti-vax movement in France: “I no longer have any intention of sacrificing my life, my time, my freedom and the adolescence of my daughters, as well as their right to study properly, for those who refuse to be vaccinated.
 

"This time you stay at home, not us.”

 

Macron doesn't have any children, his step sons are near or at middle age.

Turns out to be fake noos.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/other/reality-check-no-macron-did-not-say-those-who-refused-vaccines-should-stay-home/ar-AAMoTuG?ocid=uxbndlbing

[Ray Gin]

2 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Macron doesn't have any children, his step sons are near or at middle age.

Turns out to be fake noos.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/other/reality-check-no-macron-did-not-say-those-who-refused-vaccines-should-stay-home/ar-AAMoTuG?ocid=uxbndlbing

 

That's a shame. I got it from ITV News:

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-07-28/tens-of-thousands-in-france-rush-to-get-jabbed-as-vaccine-passes-rolled-out

Edited July 29, 2021 by Ray Gin

[151]

8 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

I didn't take the vaccine because I was told to. I took it because I wanted it, way before any talk of proof of vaccination being required to do certain things.

 

Fair enough mate.

[Dazo]

4 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Macron doesn't have any children, his step sons are near or at middle age.

Turns out to be fake noos.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/other/reality-check-no-macron-did-not-say-those-who-refused-vaccines-should-stay-home/ar-AAMoTuG?ocid=uxbndlbing

😂😂😂😂

 

Wasn’t Ray one of those jumping on the those posting fake news bandwagon ? Glorious to see him caught out by the Facebook mums and plumbers  😂

[Ray Gin]

Just now, Dazo said:

😂😂😂😂

 

Wasn’t Ray one of those jumping on the those posting fake news bandwagon ? Glorious to see him caught out by the Facebook mums and plumbers  😂

 

I was caught out by an ITV journalist. Where do the plumbers and mothers come in to it?

 

[jack D and coke]

23 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

No mucking about from Macron.

 

"Macron was uncompromising with the (powerful) anti-vax movement in France: “I no longer have any intention of sacrificing my life, my time, my freedom and the adolescence of my daughters, as well as their right to study properly, for those who refuse to be vaccinated.
 

"This time you stay at home, not us.”

So fake then?!
Oh well  

Edited July 29, 2021 by jack D and coke

[JudyJudyJudy]

16 minutes ago, 151 said:

 

Mental isn't it. The folk on here going on about "the big scary vaccine" and talk about brainwashing etc but are happy to give over their human rights in the name of "the greater good" and "big scary Covid".

 

There are idiots on both sides and the irony seems lost.

Exactly 👍

16 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Why are there physical health exceptions but not mental health exceptions?

 

If it conflicts strongly with someone's beliefs that's likely to cause them mental health issues then to force them to take it against their will just to live a normal life seems unjust.

 

Seems pretty outdated to me.

 

 

👍

13 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

The irony in my rhetoric is very deliberate.

 

However I'm not giving over any human rights. I'm fully vaccinated, I'll be able to do what I want.

 

You are only able to do what you “ fully want “ Because you took the vaccine . If you didn’t you wouldn’t be able to 

10 minutes ago, 151 said:

 

Yes because you were told to do something. That is the point I was making. You say folk are scared of a "big scary vaccine", but you only got said vaccine because you were forced to to do said things, or were scared of a virus they admitted inflating the death numbers of. 

 

Again, absolute morons on both sides. Actually to the point I believe if the government suddenly said they had to take parents away from their children because it stopped transmission folk would buy into it and happily do it and call the rest "sheeple" or "anti-parents". 

Yes completely agree . They have just lain down and let Big Govt trample on their rights to protect a minority of people . However they coat in the pretence of the “ greater good “ at least I’ve been Honest about why I took the vaccine . ( to primarily protect myself from the small risk I may be ill from Covid ) 

[Ray Gin]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

You are only able to do what you “ fully want “ Because you took the vaccine . If you didn’t you wouldn’t be able to 

 

I had the choice, as does everyone. Some people are determined to drag this out for as long as possible. Normality is within reach for anybody who wants it.

 

 

[Taffin]

12 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

I'm not sure being religious counts as a valid mental illness.

 

 

No, but if you're forced to either turn your back on your religion (or philosophical belief) or be shut out of society what do you think that will do to your mental health?

 

There seems to be a real dismissive nature towards mental health (locked out due to no vaccine, the impact of lockdown, business closures, not seeing loved ones) in order to promote physical health as a priority. It's sad 🙁

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Macron doesn't have any children, his step sons are near or at middle age.

Turns out to be fake noos.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/other/reality-check-no-macron-did-not-say-those-who-refused-vaccines-should-stay-home/ar-AAMoTuG?ocid=uxbndlbing

And his Mrs is old enough to be his mum . He’s trash . No talker than that previous muppet Napoleon and look what happened to him ! 

2 minutes ago, Dazo said:

😂😂😂😂

 

Wasn’t Ray one of those jumping on the those posting fake news bandwagon ? Glorious to see him caught out by the Facebook mums and plumbers  😂

👍👍

[Taffin]

Macron basically saying (if it turns out not to be fake news being spread) I want you to do something to protect me and those I care about regardless of whether you need it or want it.

 

To throw this thread back 12 months or so...selfish much?

[Taffin]

I want my risk minimised so all older people and overweight people should be locked out of society because they spread it more.

 

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/946599

 

 

That would be pretty draconian and self centred, no?

[Ray Gin]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

I want my risk minimised so all older people and overweight people should be locked out of society because they spread it more.

 

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/946599

 

That would be pretty draconian and self centred, no?

 

Nothing to worry about if you're vaccinated.

 

 

[Dazo]

10 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

I was caught out by an ITV journalist. Where do the plumbers and mothers come in to it?

 

Relax Ray I’m with you on this one, I wish it was real. 

[Taffin]

5 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Nothing to worry about if you're vaccinated.

 

 

 

Then why are you worried whether other people are vaccinated or not then?

 

Nothing to worry about if you're vaccinated, right?

[Ray Gin]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

Then why are you worried whether other people are vaccinated or not then?

 

Nothing to worry about if you're vaccinated, right?

 

Because people not being vaccinated is a hindrance to everything returning to normal. I want things to return to normal.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

I actually agree with Ray about religious reasons , to be fair . They can bolt . Those religious nuts spew hate and venom and have caused untold deaths and misery through the years . It’s probably a mental illness 

[Dirty Deeds]

44 minutes ago, jonesy said:

 

 

 

Exactly how I felt last year about lockdowns. I had no intention of sacrificing a year of my life while the Keechie Breek Brigade binged Netflix and waited for the macabre death stats to get published every day.

 

People were able to make informed decisions about whether or not they mixed with other people in potentially transmissible venues and contexts. 

 

Hope you enjoyed your year of doing exactly what you were told to do and cowering behind your sofa, Ray Baby.

Its your choice to not to get vaccinated but you have to expect restrictions on your freedom as a result.  No foreign travel and no access to large events for example.

 

Chelsea FC already putting restrictions in place

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea-fc-fans-fully-vaccinated-covid-b948055.html

[Taffin]

31 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Because people not being vaccinated is a hindrance to everything returning to normal. I want things to return to normal.

 

 

If the hindrance to 'normal' is because the unvaccinated pose a greater risk then it also follows that it applies to the aged and overweight. If everyone who is vaccinated doesn't need to worry about the risk others pose as you stated then what's the problem opening up?

 

Of course if it's ideologically driven that people want everyone vaccinated rather than because of the risk, then that's another argument. 

 

If it's purely risk then my statement is no different than if you substitute 'aged and overweight' for 'unvaccinated'.

 

[Ray Gin]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

If the hindrance to 'normal' is because the unvaccinated pose a greater risk then it also follows that it applies to the aged and overweight. If everyone who is vaccinated doesn't need to worry about the risk others pose as you stated then what's the problem opening up?

 

Of course if it's ideologically driven that people want everyone vaccinated rather than because of the risk, then that's another argument. 

 

If it's purely risk then my statement is no different than if you substitute 'aged and overweight' for 'unvaccinated'.

 

 

You won't hear me arguing against old and overweight people being blocked from going to events if they have the option of getting a jab to stop them being super spreaders but choose not to take it.

[Taffin]

5 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

You won't hear me arguing against old and overweight people being blocked from going to events if they have the option of getting a jab to stop them being super spreaders but choose not to take it.

 

Why does it matter, you're vaccinated right? 

 

Or have you changed that stance? Just be honest and admit it's ideological and not based on risk that you want it. I'm against mandatory vaccination, purely for ideological reasons but I'm open about it.

 

Everyone's risk of spreading when vaccinated will decrease but the demographic I've mentioned will continue to spread at a higher rate than those in other vaccinated demographics. The science would need to find out whether an overweight older person who's vaccinated still spreads it more than a younger healthy person who's unvaccinated. I don't think that's been done yet but it would be interesting to know.

 

Anyway I'm out as it's pointless debating it. You want unvaccinated locked out of society, I don't. Its poles apart and we'll never agree so I'll go and enjoy my freedom of normality 

 

 

[Beni]

9 hours ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

scientific consensus (assuming our definitions of this are broadly similar) has shifted at least a few times throughout this there has also been a group of highly-qualified and highly-respected scientists who have offered an alternative view to the consensus

 

In what ways do you think the scientific consensus shifted? 

Policies have certainly shifted, you might even say flip flopped (eg masks), but with a novel virus there was precious little knowledge, far less a consensus.

New Zealand and Sweden both had access to the same science, but implemented radically different policies.

I'm not saying either was right or wrong, but if there was a consensus surely they'd both follow it.

 

Speaking of highly respected scientists, I see professor of evidence Carl Heneghan has been editing all the 'evidence' out of his Twitter account. 🤔 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

12 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Why does it matter, you're vaccinated right? 

 

Or have you changed that stance? Just be honest and admit it's ideological and not based on risk that you want it. I'm against mandatory vaccination, purely for ideological reasons but I'm open about it.

 

Everyone's risk of spreading when vaccinated will decrease but the demographic I've mentioned will continue to spread at a higher rate than those in other vaccinated demographics. The science would need to find out whether an overweight older person who's vaccinated still spreads it more than a younger healthy person who's unvaccinated. I don't think that's been done yet but it would be interesting to know.

 

Anyway I'm out as it's pointless debating it. You want unvaccinated locked out of society, I don't. Its poles apart and we'll never agree so I'll go and enjoy my freedom of normality 

 

 

👍

[Rodger Mellie]

16 hours ago, connlach said:

Genuinely delighted for you but seems odd I probably won't get to florida in November but anyone can come here when our vaccination rates are better. 

Cheers mate! There is enormous pressure on Biden to open the borders from those within the US travel and tourism industry. I reckon he’ll have to open up by the end of summer…

[Ray Gin]

16 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Why does it matter, you're vaccinated right? 

 

Or have you changed that stance? Just be honest and admit it's ideological and not based on risk that you want it. I'm against mandatory vaccination, purely for ideological reasons but I'm open about it.

 

Everyone's risk of spreading when vaccinated will decrease but the demographic I've mentioned will continue to spread at a higher rate than those in other vaccinated demographics. The science would need to find out whether an overweight older person who's vaccinated still spreads it more than a younger healthy person who's unvaccinated. I don't think that's been done yet but it would be interesting to know.

 

Anyway I'm out as it's pointless debating it. You want unvaccinated locked out of society, I don't. Its poles apart and we'll never agree so I'll go and enjoy my freedom of normality 

 

 

 

It's not just about me.

 

People choosing not to take the vaccine are a potential burden to the health service, a risk to those who cannot take the vaccine, and present a risk of allowing new potentially vaccine-resistant variants to flourish. 

[kila]

If too few were vaccinated then we'd never get out of this mess. We'd just have waves every year and we'd need to build more hospitals and train more doctors/nurses to cope (though I think we should have those anyway).

 

It's only because so many have taken up the offer of the vaccine that we're on the cusp of normality. But if there had been too few, what would we have done instead?

 

Hypothetically (because shouldn't be many vaccinated in ICU) if a vaccinated and unvaccinated person both need a ventilator due to COVID and there's only one available, who should get it?

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by kila

[Beni]

15 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Why does it matter, you're vaccinated right? 

 

Or have you changed that stance? Just be honest and admit it's ideological and not based on risk that you want it. I'm against mandatory vaccination, purely for ideological reasons but I'm open about it.

 

Everyone's risk of spreading when vaccinated will decrease but the demographic I've mentioned will continue to spread at a higher rate than those in other vaccinated demographics. The science would need to find out whether an overweight older person who's vaccinated still spreads it more than a younger healthy person who's unvaccinated. I don't think that's been done yet but it would be interesting to know.

 

Anyway I'm out as it's pointless debating it. You want unvaccinated locked out of society, I don't. Its poles apart and we'll never agree so I'll go and enjoy my freedom of normality 

 

 

 

If the majority choose not to get vaccinated then nothing changes, NHS overwhelmed, lockdowns a never ending feature, no international travel etc. So the quickest way out is high vaccine uptake (assuming people find the alternative of high mortality and long Covid undesirable).

Taking the vaccine or not is a choice, being old isn't which is a fundamental difference. Being overweight is a bit different, but you can't decide to stop being overweight in the short term. So I think it's a false equivalence to lump them in with vaccine refuseniks.

I'm not on favour of compulsory vaccination, but neither am I against some things not being available to those that have chosen not to take it.

I know you said you were out, but as Mickey Flannigan demonstrated, that can be a nuanced term.

[Taffin]

5 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

If the majority choose not to get vaccinated then nothing changes, NHS overwhelmed, lockdowns a never ending feature, no international travel etc. So the quickest way out is high vaccine uptake (assuming people find the alternative of high mortality and long Covid undesirable).

Taking the vaccine or not is a choice, being old isn't which is a fundamental difference. Being overweight is a bit different, but you can't decide to stop being overweight in the short term. So I think it's a false equivalence to lump them in with vaccine refuseniks.

I'm not on favour of compulsory vaccination, but neither am I against some things not being available to those that have chosen not to take it.

I know you said you were out, but as Mickey Flannigan demonstrated, that can be a nuanced term.

 

But the majority has chosen to be vaccinated and it's still increasing, the NHS isn't overwhelmed and lockdowns are gone. We're already out, or well on our way dependent on where you live. 

 

I agree for international travel, if a country states you need to have one to enter, you need to have one. Domestically I can't agree.

 

You're effectively saying the same, that the risk is secondary, it's why someone is a risk that is influencing your view. 

 

I'm obviously not in favour of locking old and overweight out of society, I'm just using it to demonstrate that people yearning for locking the unvaccinated out of society are doing so based on ideology, not risk. As for short term weight loss, we've known it's an increased personal risk for over a year so it's not exactly short term to have been able to do something about it...but that's by the by.

 

People should get vaccinated...and the vast majority have. If some people don't want to then oh well. I've done my bit to keep myself at low risk and if I encounter someone unvaccinated I'm not concerned...nor should I know whether they're vaccinated or not as it's none of my business 

[Taffin]

23 minutes ago, kila said:

If too few were vaccinated then we'd never get out of this mess. We'd just have waves every year and we'd need to build more hospitals and train more doctors/nurses to cope (though I think we should have those anyway).

 

It's only because so many have taken up the offer of the vaccine that we're on the cusp of normality. But if there had been too few, what would we have done instead?

 

Hypothetically (because shouldn't be many vaccinated in ICU) if a vaccinated and unvaccinated person both need a ventilator due to COVID and there's only one available, who should get it?

 

 

Whoever needed it first. 

 

What if the unvaccinated person had a healthy BMI, didn't smoke and was physically fit and healthy and the vaccinated person was overweight, smoked and in terrible general health?

 

Rationalising who gets treatment is a slippery slope. I'm not necessarily against it, but let's make sure we include all risk factors.

 

The rest is again, if my auntie had balls stuff. There wasn't too few who took it up, it was taken up in good numbers and it's working. Chasing up the stragglers/refusers via some ideological persecution is wrong but more importantly, isn't needed.

 

 

Edited to make it make sense 😂🤦🏻‍♂️

Edited July 29, 2021 by Taffin

[Beni]

4 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Why is it just Covidy stuff that makes us want to restrict access to places? There are plenty of 'burdens' out there who continue their burdensome ways unhindered, directly or indirectly harming others.

 

Smokers?

[Ray Gin]

11 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Why is it just Covidy stuff that makes us want to restrict access to places? There are plenty of 'burdens' out there who continue their burdensome ways unhindered, directly or indirectly harming others.

 

It isn't. Many countries require a polio vaccine for entry, for example. 

[escobri]

Had a little walk about east end of Princes street the other day for the first time since this nonsense started, we are most definitely not living in a health emergency going by the numbers out and about. Honestly think people have had enough, COVID ain’t the killing machine the powers that be want it to be, for me now it’s all about power and control.

[JudyJudyJudy]

16 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

But the majority has chosen to be vaccinated and it's still increasing, the NHS isn't overwhelmed and lockdowns are gone. We're already out, or well on our way dependent on where you live. 

 

I agree for international travel, if a country states you need to have one to enter, you need to have one. Domestically I can't agree.

 

You're effectively saying the same, that the risk is secondary, it's why someone is a risk that is influencing your view. 

 

I'm obviously not in favour of locking old and overweight out of society, I'm just using it to demonstrate that people yearning for locking the unvaccinated out of society are doing so based on ideology, not risk. As for short term weight loss, we've known it's an increased personal risk for over a year so it's not exactly short term to have been able to do something about it...but that's by the by.

 

People should get vaccinated...and the vast majority have. If some people don't want to then oh well. I've done my bit to keep myself at low risk and if I encounter someone unvaccinated I'm not concerned...nor should I know whether they're vaccinated or not as it's none of my business 

Agree 

12 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Whoever needed it first. 

 

What if the unvaccinated person had a healthy BMI, didn't smoke and was physically fit and healthy and the vaccinated person was overweight, smoked and in terrible general health?

 

Rationalising who gets treatment is a slippery slope. I'm not necessarily against it, but let's make sure we include all risk factors.

 

The rest is again, if my auntie had balls stuff. There wasn't too few who took it up, it was taken up in good numbers and it's working. Chasing up the stragglers/refusers via some ideological persecution is wrong but more importantly, isn't needed.

 

 

Edited to make it make sense 😂🤦🏻‍♂️

Yep 

2 minutes ago, escobri said:

Had a little walk about east end of Princes street the other day for the first time since this nonsense started, we are most definitely not living in a health emergency going by the numbers out and about. Honestly think people have had enough, COVID ain’t the killing machine the powers that be want it to be, for me now it’s all about power and control.

I go into town nearly every day and it’s been like this for months . It’s over 

[Beni]

6 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

But the majority has chosen to be vaccinated and it's still increasing, the NHS isn't overwhelmed and lockdowns are gone. We're already out, or well on our way dependent on where you live. 

 

I agree for international travel, if a country states you need to have one to enter, you need to have one. Domestically I can't agree.

 

You're effectively saying the same, that the risk is secondary, it's why someone is a risk that is influencing your view. 

 

I'm obviously not in favour of locking old and overweight out of society, I'm just using it to demonstrate that people yearning for locking the unvaccinated out of society are doing so based on ideology, not risk. As for short term weight loss, we've known it's an increased personal risk for over a year so it's not exactly short term to have been able to do something about it...but that's by the by.

 

People should get vaccinated...and the vast majority have. If some people don't want to then oh well. I've done my bit to keep myself at low risk and if I encounter someone unvaccinated I'm not concerned...nor should I know whether they're vaccinated or not as it's none of my business 

 

It does seem that herd immunity or something close to it isn't too far away, so this argument is hopefully soon to be redundant.

As I said I don't favour compulsory vaccination, but if some restrictions are deemed necessary in the short term, then the vaccinated pose less of a risk to themselves and others, so fewer restrictions are needed for them.

I posted on here what seems like an eternity ago, that ensuring everyone reached recommended vit D levels and encouraging weight loss were low cost goals, that certainly wouldn't do any harm even if the jury is out on the benefits.

But I reckon the same folk who have railed against other state interventions would turn their nose up at these too.

[Ray Gin]

6 minutes ago, escobri said:

Had a little walk about east end of Princes street the other day for the first time since this nonsense started, we are most definitely not living in a health emergency going by the numbers out and about. Honestly think people have had enough, COVID ain’t the killing machine the powers that be want it to be, for me now it’s all about power and control.

 

We're in level 0. There are barely any restrictions at all any more.

 

[Taffin]

1 minute ago, fancy a brew said:

 

It does seem that herd immunity or something close to it isn't too far away, so this argument is hopefully soon to be redundant.

As I said I don't favour compulsory vaccination, but if some restrictions are deemed necessary in the short term, then the vaccinated pose less of a risk to themselves and others, so fewer restrictions are needed for them.

I posted on here what seems like an eternity ago, that ensuring everyone reached recommended vit D levels and encouraging weight loss were low cost goals, that certainly wouldn't do any harm even if the jury is out on the benefits.

But I reckon the same folk who have railed against other state interventions would turn their nose up at these too.

 

I'd be all for them, an awareness campaign (not that it should really be needed) would be a great thing for us to focus on.

 

Saying don't go to the cinema or the football until you've had your vitamin D and lost 10lbs, less so.

 

That said, I do find the North Korean morning exercise rituals fascinating so maybe I'd even be in favour of that.

[kila]

33 minutes ago, jonesy said:

I'd like to see some form of tournament to decide. Perhaps this would sort them out?

 

 

[Gizmo]

11 hours ago, jonesy said:

Point 1. Yes. It was wrong before and it is wrong now. Lockdowns kill people. 
 

Point 2. I’ve never tried to hide the fact I’m a dick.

 

You're smart enough to have looked at the data, surely - even moderate projections would have seen massively higher death rates with no lockdown. Do we have data as to how many people died directly from Lockdown v Covid-19?
 

3 hours ago, Victorian said:

 

The entire purpose of vaccination against a society and economy wrecking virus is that a very large majority take part.  Maximum take up is vital within individual countries and will be just as vital globally,  over time.  What's more criminal is the human psychology no longer recognises collective / mutually beneficial effort,  responsibility,  duty.  

 

Don't like restrictions,  can't do stuff,  here's a vaccine to help prevent restrictions and enable doing stuff,  nah not taking it,  hopefully enough other people will 'cos I hate restrictions and want to do stuff.

 

Absolute freedom of choice in normal times?  Absolutely.  Expedient suspension of some norms for the good of everyone? Absolutely.  

 

People shouldn't be being forced inti taking the vaccine but it's their own unrealistic moral outlook to blame.

Glad to see someone else gets the societal commitment and the greater good - this has long been a guiding force. There never used to be this much resistance to vaccines - the internet, Russian server farms and conspiracy idiots really have ****ed us over. 
 

2 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

Why are there physical health exceptions but not mental health exceptions?

 

If it conflicts strongly with someone's beliefs that's likely to cause them mental health issues then to force them to take it against their will just to live a normal life seems unjust.

 

Seems pretty outdated to me.

 

 

The law forces people who hold homophobic beliefs derived from the interpretation of their faith / holy texts not to discriminate. I'm sorry but it's unrealistic to suggest wee Shuggy who watched some youtube videos from the anti-vaxxer nutjobs, is in danger of suffering mental health issues if he feels coerced into taking the vaccine. 
 

2 hours ago, jonesy said:

 

 

 

Exactly how I felt last year about lockdowns. I had no intention of sacrificing a year of my life while the Keechie Breek Brigade binged Netflix and waited for the macabre death stats to get published every day.

 

People were able to make informed decisions about whether or not they mixed with other people in potentially transmissible venues and contexts. 

 

Hope you enjoyed your year of doing exactly what you were told to do and cowering behind your sofa, Ray Baby.

"Keechie Breek Brigade". Really? 

People aren't generally able to make "informed decisions" - ffs, people dial 999 when they can't get the lid off a jar of baby food and set fire to broadband masts because some moron on a video told them 5G was causing coronaviruses.