Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

That's what it looks like.

Might be right I suppose. It just seems so unlikely to me, given the fact people who die tend to have pre-existing conditions, that not one person died with a yet to be diagnosed illness/condition. 

Edited September 19, 2020 by GinRummy

[GinRummy]

Just now, Brian Dundas said:

My guess is they don't know as they didn't look for one. However in terms of preventing illness in a Covid sense then not knowing and not having are almost the same thing

In terms of prevention I’d agree. 

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Brian Dundas said:

In this context I count anyone under 65 to be counted as young.

 

Good point.   All depends on definition.   It doesn't even have to be expressed in terms of age.   If you consider all the people of working age,  perhaps those who have no known covid vulnerable conditions and who consider themselves to be relatively fit,  healthy and not particularly susceptible,  that's an enormous group,  many of who do not have the means nor ability to become part of 'the shielded'.   People with jobs they need to attend,  etc.

 

It follows on from what was proposed days ago.   The age profile of infections showed a lower average age.   It was being portrayed that it was mainly 'in the young'.   It doesn't require a qualification in the science of rocketry to see how easily it will spread very quickly,   if only a minority choose to self isolate.

[GinRummy]

Just now, Brian Dundas said:

I'd I agree it would still be nice to have accurate statistics given the magnitude of the situation

Aye, not that big a deal I suppose but the more accurate the data the better. 

[Victorian]

Just now, Lord BJ said:

You then tried to use that as example to prove a completely unrelated point.

 

Your second para is correct but not what you suggested.

 

@Brian Dundas everyone under 65 is young, fair enough not sure many others myself included are taking that approach. 

 

It was an example and not trying to prove anything.

 

You jumped in feet first to try to dismiss what you thought was some kind of generalisation.   You got it wrong but you're only human.    

 

 

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

😂 ate right. Backtrack jack👍

 

You were doing so well yesterday as well.   

Debating the points > scavanging the odd point here and there.   Try it more often.  You're a few echelons above the hysterical mob.

[Ray Gin]

It would seem that people have now resorted to arguing about things that nobody even said. What a wonderful development.

[Victorian]

6 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

It would seem that people have now resorted to arguing about things that nobody even said. What a wonderful development.

 

It's over. 

[Ray Gin]

I just imagined that you said something and in my head it was terrible! I demand a retraction!    

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

 

Similar to what I was about to mention.   A BBC article mentions that research suggests that only 1 in 5 people follow the self isolation rules when tested positive for CV.

 

And that,  following on from the bewilderment of some,  is how the virus transmits from young person (A) and eventually ends up in old person (B).

 

Welcome to society folks.   A place where people live and think only from day to day,  the future.. what's a future? Other people.. what's other people?  

An inevitability when you have half wits banging on about 'it disnae affect young folks likesy' and 'everybody else should shield cos they run the economy' 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

 

We need more Gypsy lightsabre fights imo.

[Jeff]

2 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

No wonder it's spreading again when this is the level of idiocy we're dealing with: 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus/edinburgh-college-student-went-class-after-positive-covid-test-2977006

Edinburgh College student 'went to class' after positive Covid test

 

The same people will be moaning about why pubs aren't the same anymore

[jambo89]

41 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

It would seem that people have now resorted to arguing about things that nobody even said. What a wonderful development.

 

Apparently I said that nipping to Sainsbury's is the same as surgery the other day. 

 

I mean, I don't remember typing that, or even thinking that and there is nothing anywhere that says I did write that, but apparently I did.

[Pasquale for King]

11 hours ago, magic roundabout said:

This is fairly interesting.... I just pulled off the Covid 19 death stats from the NHS England website. Looking at the numbers just over 300 people under the age of 60 have died from Covid who didn't have any pre-existing medical conditions. In fact the total deaths without any pre-existing conditions is 1400. Given NHS England (until recently) were counting anybody who died after a positive test as a Covid death irrespective what the cause of death was the number is likely to be a lot lower. 

 

Ps I'm not saying we should ignore people with pre-existing conditions in fact the opposite they should be protected more... But it does question the need for future full scale lockdowns. 

 

. 

 

 

That total doesn’t count those that died or Covid without having a test beforehand, the real total is over 80k for the U.K. They stopped publishing the figures from the Office of National Statistics. That’s why Sturgeon says the number of deaths measured by this calculation, then once a week indicates the real figures when it’s announced up here. If they reckon that Covid pushed someone who is already struggling with another disease over the edge then it’s Covid that killed them. 

[Locky]

Why do people think getting tested is the problem? Just been alerted to someone on Facebook (rightly taking pelters) saying 'if you don't get tested, then the government don't have the ammo they need to lockdown again'. Do people honestly think if we just ignore it, it'll go away? 

 

Sounds a great idea, why don't we all stop going to the doctors and all medical conditions might disappear?

[Weakened Offender]

5 minutes ago, Locky said:

Why do people think getting tested is the problem? Just been alerted to someone on Facebook (rightly taking pelters) saying 'if you don't get tested, then the government don't have the ammo they need to lockdown again'. Do people honestly think if we just ignore it, it'll go away? 

 

Sounds a great idea, why don't we all stop going to the doctors and all medical conditions might disappear?

 

Think the key word is there is think. 

 

The UK government has been utterly exposed throughout this crisis but so too has the stupidity of large swathes of the population who get their info from memes, YouTube and conspiracy theories. 

 

Check them out on here, roasters. 😁

 

 

[Ray Gin]

13 minutes ago, Locky said:

Why do people think getting tested is the problem? Just been alerted to someone on Facebook (rightly taking pelters) saying 'if you don't get tested, then the government don't have the ammo they need to lockdown again'. Do people honestly think if we just ignore it, it'll go away? 

 

Sounds a great idea, why don't we all stop going to the doctors and all medical conditions might disappear?

 

 

[Locky]

4 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Think the key word is there is think. 

 

The UK government has been utterly exposed throughout this crisis but so too has the stupidity of large swathes of the population who get their info from memes, YouTube and conspiracy theories. 

 

Check them out on here, roasters. 😁

 

 

I don't think I can stomach to read this thread that much.

 

That view I posted is similar to the one by one of the biggest leaders in the world. A man who says his nations high figures should not be seen as a problem, but instead should be seen as an achievement because of the high amount of testing carried out.

[Locky]

1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

 

 

Indeed Ray. I despair at some of the clowns I share a planet with.

[doctor jambo]

2 minutes ago, Locky said:

I don't think I can stomach to read this thread that much.

 

That view I posted is similar to the one by one of the biggest leaders in the world. A man who says his nations high figures should not be seen as a problem, but instead should be seen as an achievement because of the high amount of testing carried out.

Depends if you think £300 billion and rising, and the loss of 685000 from employment so far has been worth it for unclear benefit.

[Jeff]

2 minutes ago, Locky said:

Indeed Ray. I despair at some of the clowns I share a planet with.

 

Jet beams, steel fuel

[Weakened Offender]

10 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

This.

I think that’s the first thing you have ever typed something I have agreed with 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

That's the really interesting however I'm more likely to read an email which starts with the words MY DEAREST GRACIOUS BENEFACTOR than any of the drivel you post on here.

[DB-14]

19 hours ago, jambo89 said:

 

I would've thought so but I'm not an expert.

 

What is the difference between the surgical masks being worn by surgeons compared to the ones commercially available on-line?

 

What is it about how surgical masks are made / the material within them that makes them so completely different in your opinion?

 

What about a virustatic snood? 

Just Google it there’s plenty of evidence that shows that cloth based masks etc are virtually useless. 

[jambo89]

6 minutes ago, SteauaNeedarest said:

Just Google it there’s plenty of evidence that shows that cloth based masks etc are virtually useless. 

I did and found no reliable sources (other than the one study posted, and even that was conducted 6 years ago and published 5 years ago). 

 

Where is the evidence that face masks do not prevent the spread of infections? 

 

Edit: by evidence, I mean reliable studies (plural) that have been peer reviewed and results replicated. 

Edited September 19, 2020 by jambo89

[Jambo 4 Ever]

Bunch of selfish twits https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/selfish-idiots-anger-huge-groups-18962146?fbclid=IwAR0FnGHG1KmFEGV9aLz-pnO9_ZEgD-vhOh8YYDubkI16GXSKh9Q46LSXKOY

[Enzo Chiefo]

5 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

There is some clarity emerging though isn't there, how many people in the UK with no previous health conditions would have died if we hadn't locked down? The stats posted earlier now suggest that would have been in the several thousand. We should also not dismiss the several hundreds of thousands others that would have died, the ones that we normally spend billions of government and private money to keep safe and alive.

 

As we plan ahead we can't just dismiss and forget what could've and did happen already

Absolute scaremongering Brian. Thousands more with illnesses like cancer will suffer because of lockdown measures.  The vast majority of peoole, of all ages, will easily fight off Covid thanks to their immune system . A minority of people with other conditions can suffer serious illness and death, as is the case with flu.

[jambo89]

I've just googled "evidence against face masks"

 

1st result (discussed already, but is the 6 year old study, with no follow up etc. etc.)

 

2nd result https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext

 

"Face mask use could result in a large reduction in risk of infection (n=2647; aOR 0·15, 95% CI 0·07 to 0·34, RD −14·3%, −15·9 to −10·7; low certainty), with stronger associations with N95 or similar respirators compared with disposable surgical masks or similar (eg, reusable 12–16-layer cotton masks; p_interaction=0·090; posterior probability >95%, low certainty)"

 

 

4th result:-

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

 

There are several strands of evidence supporting the efficacy of masks

 

Links within articles:-

 

https://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf

 

The consensus amongst scientists is where a mask. The response is to quote some fringe study conducted 6 years ago that questions the use of masks and ignore the 99% of other studies. 

 

It is Trumpian / climate deniers 101

[jack D and coke]

12 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Bunch of selfish twits https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/selfish-idiots-anger-huge-groups-18962146?fbclid=IwAR0FnGHG1KmFEGV9aLz-pnO9_ZEgD-vhOh8YYDubkI16GXSKh9Q46LSXKOY

Was it you that had the two twitter accounts to moan about them aye? 

[Governor Tarkin]

Just now, Brian Dundas said:

 

Those cancer patients, what do you think the outcome for them if they catch Covid?

 

The same as if they don't get their cancer treatment, probably.

[Governor Tarkin]

Just now, Brian Dundas said:

Agreed, but cancer treatments were not all stopped.

 

 

 

Not all, but some. I know a couple of folk who couldn't get theirs. Hopefully things will work out but the mental anguish has been torture for them.

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

12 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Not all, but some. I know a couple of folk who couldn't get theirs. Hopefully things will work out but the mental anguish has been torture for them.

 

It must be hell for them..

Sincerely feel for them.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

Doing nothing isn’t an option https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/two-week-coronavirus-lockdown-during-18961915

Edited September 19, 2020 by Jambo 4 Ever

[Governor Tarkin]

5 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

I can fully understand, we are in a very difficult situation which has thankfully improved massively now. I just don't like people who dismiss what went on before as if it never happened. Hopefully the NHS can get back up to full speed and all patients can get their treatments again (BTW following the rules even if we don't like them would help with that)

 

Agreed.

[Enzo Chiefo]

18 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

Why am I scaremongering? I'm saying that is what would have happened if we didn't lockdown, look at the stats.

 

It is a minority of people, but it is a very large minority and 'young' people with no health issues do/did die, 300 so far with only a small minority having been infected so far, you don't need a calculator to work out my figures.

 

Those cancer patients, what do you think the outcome for them if they catch Covid?

Statistically,  under 50s have more chance of dying in a car crash than of Covid. State sponsored scaremongering has left swathes of the population believing that death only occurs because of Covid and that life should be risk free. 12k people die in the UK every week, more than 2k of whom die from respiratory illnesses....every single week. By all means, targetted  extra precautions in care homes etc, from where half the deaths have come, mskes sense. But it would be absolute madness for the govt to consider lockdown measures along the same lines as before.  Individual vulnerable adults are quite capable of taking their own precautions and making their own risk assessment,  without being subject to state diktats. Blunt scientific modelling predictions should be politely dismissed, as they don't take account of common sense, real life and individual human behaviour.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

Depends if you think £300 billion and rising, and the loss of 685000 from employment so far has been worth it for unclear benefit.

Seems a lot of people don’t give a flying **** about the economy , the lose of jobs and the social and economic impact of a full lockdown which is only a temporary halting of the virus transmission as opposed to the long term economic carnage . Very selfish people 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

43 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

Agreed, but cancer treatments were not all stopped.

 

 

 

theres been a crackpot on sky news throughout masquerading as a top cancer specialist who says there is a significant problem as people have not been coming forward (compared to expected numbers)

 

he fears when they eventually do the cancer will have advanced to a stage where they will be unlikely to be saved the delay changing the prognosis fundamentally

 

 

[Fxxx the SPFL]

23 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Statistically,  under 50s have more chance of dying in a car crash than of Covid. State sponsored scaremongering has left swathes of the population believing that death only occurs because of Covid and that life should be risk free. 12k people die in the UK every week, more than 2k of whom die from respiratory illnesses....every single week. By all means, targetted  extra precautions in care homes etc, from where half the deaths have come, mskes sense. But it would be absolute madness for the govt to consider lockdown measures along the same lines as before.  Individual vulnerable adults are quite capable of taking their own precautions and making their own risk assessment,  without being subject to state diktats. Blunt scientific modelling predictions should be politely dismissed, as they don't take account of common sense, real life and individual human behaviour.

Agree with all that. Spanish Flu historians stated that approximately 380k died in the UK but they also stated that was a conservative estimate as many reported deaths from other causes could also have been linked to that outbreak. Black Death/Plague killed one fifth of London's population. The world is over populated this is just nature's way of dealing with it. Again imo the Economy has to take priority i know that doesn't sit well with many. My in laws are both in separate nursing homes with underlying health problems i wouldn't want to see them die of covid but they could also die naturally of their illnesses.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

57 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Absolute scaremongering Brian. Thousands more with illnesses like cancer will suffer because of lockdown measures.  The vast majority of peoole, of all ages, will easily fight off Covid thanks to their immune system . A minority of people with other conditions can suffer serious illness and death, as is the case with flu.

 

there are a number of people on here with both significant statistical and medical knowledge - I suggest you listen to them and stop posting dangerous stuff like this

 

all these survivors are due to lockdown - imagine what would have happened had we not

 

i’ll simplify it for you - look at Sweden they didn’t lockdown and we now know that everyone in that country is either now dead or have long term issues with their major organs due to covid which will result in certain death sooner rather than later

 

thats the stark reality of this highly-contagious non-flu-like pathogen we are facing

 

 

 

as a side point - when that country is completely uninhabited (I saw a graph and pie-chart combo predicting sometime early 2021) who will have the rights to the vacant land - a point for another day

[TheOak88]

16 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

theres been a crackpot on sky news throughout masquerading as a top cancer specialist who says there is a significant problem as people have not been coming forward (compared to expected numbers)

 

he fears when they eventually do the cancer will have advanced to a stage where they will be unlikely to be saved the delay changing the prognosis fundamentally

 

 

 

Why would that view make him a crackpot?

[Nucky Thompson]

4 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

there are a number of people on here with both significant statistical and medical knowledge - I suggest you listen to them and stop posting dangerous stuff like this

 

all these survivors are due to lockdown - imagine what would have happened had we not

 

i’ll simplify it for you - look at Sweden they didn’t lockdown and we now know that everyone in that country is either now dead or have long term issues with their major organs due to covid which will result in certain death sooner rather than later

 

thats the stark reality of this highly-contagious non-flu-like pathogen we are facing

 

 

 

as a side point - when that country is completely uninhabited (I saw a graph and pie-chart combo predicting sometime early 2021) who will have the rights to the vacant land - a point for another day

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, Locky said:

Indeed Ray. I despair at some of the clowns I share a planet with.

And we have a winner for the most melodramatic post of this thread or maybe the year. 

[doctor jambo]

1 hour ago, Brian Dundas said:

Agreed, but cancer treatments were not all stopped.

 

 

Guy over the road from me died after stem cell treatment was suspended .

sure, it was his cancer that killed him ,  but really it was government policy.

[doctor jambo]

6 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

And we have a winner for the most melodramatic post of this thread or maybe the year. 

You don’t get irony , do you

[Enzo Chiefo]

12 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

there are a number of people on here with both significant statistical and medical knowledge - I suggest you listen to them and stop posting dangerous stuff like this

 

all these survivors are due to lockdown - imagine what would have happened had we not

 

i’ll simplify it for you - look at Sweden they didn’t lockdown and we now know that everyone in that country is either now dead or have long term issues with their major organs due to covid which will result in certain death sooner rather than later

 

thats the stark reality of this highly-contagious non-flu-like pathogen we are facing

 

 

 

as a side point - when that country is completely uninhabited (I saw a graph and pie-chart combo predicting sometime early 2021) who will have the rights to the vacant land - a point for another day

I suggest you deal with the facts and mske evidence based judgements rather than listen  to  crackpot scientific modellers.  The same ones who predicted 85k deaths in Sweden if they didn't lock down. The reality of course was about 7% of that figure. I think we've heard enough from these "experts, pursuing their own agenda due to vested interests. . We're dealing with a virus that the human immune system will destroy, in the vast majority of cases. There are sufferers of worse illnesses who are being denied life saving treatment due to this dangerous obsession with Covid.

[Francis Albert]

3 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

You don’t get irony , do you

It was ironic? Sorry it read as only aa slightly extreme form of the sentiments expressed by many about covidiots, twats, etc applied to anyone who disagrees with the seriousness of Covid and the damage the " cure " for it is doing.

[JudyJudyJudy]

19 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I thought that too 😱

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

not sure if I’m being trolled (deservedly so) or if it’s due to the wide range of opinions - but no - I wasn’t being entirely serious

 

 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

12 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

not sure if I’m being trolled (deservedly so) or if it’s due to the wide range of opinions - but no - I wasn’t being entirely serious

 

 

 

Well you caught me hook, line and sinker😂. I did wonder about the "crackpot" cancer specialist but the "uninhabited Sweden" graphs should have clinched it. Congratulations👍

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Well you caught me hook, line and sinker😂. I did wonder about the "crackpot" cancer specialist but the "uninhabited Sweden" graphs should have clinched it. Congratulations👍

 

i thought the give away was in the first line of a number of people on here having significant knowledge (including me sadly)

 

 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

22 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

i thought the give away was in the first line of a number of people on here having significant knowledge (including me sadly)

 

 

 

And me😂