Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[sadj]

13 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Usually he only does the briefing when it’s good news.

 

Def not good news 

[Shanks]

 

The government telling households that it was okay to mix at Christmas is sounding more and more like a bad idea tbh.  

 

They are just following the science though so can't really blame them 

[sadj]

9 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Appears if you have had the Covid your protected against the new deadlier strain of COVID.

He confused me to **** (whitty) you have no protection after the jab and then it builds up and itll protect you for 5months we think.

 

[Taffin]

24 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Scotland can't vary too much from the UK position for a variety of reasons but notably budget, which is held at WM level, such as the furlough scheme.

 

The country just borrows to pay for it.   It doesn't even have to pay it back, as long as it can service it.

 

If that comes a push start to tighten up on lets say tax legislation where supwr patriotic brits hide bns away offshore every week.

 

Time for us to 'man up' the lady is right.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm all for more public spending and clamping down on tax avoidance 👍👍

Edited January 22, 2021 by Taffin

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just watching the briefing. Usual non committal words from those doom merchants..." possibly" " Maybe" etc . Really going for it regarding the variants though.  Stating the " New " variant is more fatal.  ( 13 people out of a 1000 ) This will never end until people just tell them to feck off.  Ramp up the vaccine , then open up. Let people make their own risk assessment. 

[Brighton Jambo]

This has been a grim press conference.  It’s unlike Boris Johnson to be so negative but this is all been bad news.  
 

 

[jamboj]

21 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

An old mate of mine is 80. He got the vaccine on Wednesday. He isnt in a care home or anything. Seems a lottery.

Go onto the JCVI website and look at the priority cohorts. It's not a lottery. It's being planned and executed in line with the best advice we have. I'm working on this programme, and comments like this are so dispiriting. 

[hughesie27]

4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Just watching the briefing. Usual non committal words from those doom merchants..." possibly" " Maybe" etc . Really going for it regarding the variants though.  Stating the " New " variant is more fatal.  ( 13 people out of a 1000 ) This will never end until people just tell them to feck off.  Ramp up the vaccine , then open up. Let people make their own risk assessment. 

Ramp up the vaccine 😄

[hughesie27]

34 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Usually he only does the briefing when it’s good news.

 

Not me perception. He is usually involved when they are bringing in more strict measures.

[pablo]

44 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

UK 1st dose vaccination figures are well up today by almost 410k to 5,383,183, while Scotland failed to match the previous day's total.

 

By my calculations the UK has vaccinated 8.06% of the population, while Scotland remains some way behind at 6.56%.

 

The focus on care homes, as the main reason for the disparity, can't be sustained much longer.

 

Yes  the care home excuse is beginning to look a bit ropey.

 

Unless the number of old folks in care is actually increasing day by day  

 

Surely as you work through the population in care homes, there's less to do each day? With new vaccination centres coming on stream, and sufficient vaccine in the country, how can you do less than the day before?

 

Something isn't right here.

[kila]

7 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Just watching the briefing. Usual non committal words from those doom merchants..." possibly" " Maybe" etc . Really going for it regarding the variants though.  Stating the " New " variant is more fatal.  ( 13 people out of a 1000 ) This will never end until people just tell them to feck off.  Ramp up the vaccine , then open up. Let people make their own risk assessment. 

 

Would you live in a place where there was no hospital? Because that would be part of the risk assessment if we just opened up. Going to take months before the vaccine rollout has any effect it seems

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, jamboj said:

Go onto the JCVI website and look at the priority cohorts. It's not a lottery. It's being planned and executed in line with the best advice we have. I'm working on this programme, and comments like this are so dispiriting. 

Well you obviously arent reading all the comments on this as several people are mentioning that their elderly parents have still not received the vaccine. 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

4 hours ago, fancy a brew said:

 

MoncurMacdonaldMercer

Posted January 9

•  

  On 09/01/2021 at 20:39, Brian Dundas said:

We have had nearly 90,000 excess deaths in the uk, over 80,000 have died within 28 days of a +ve test.

If it’s not Covid what are all these extra people dying from? (Insert incentive bus driver joke here)

 

their multiple underlying health conditions and age tipped over the edge like in a heavy flu season 😬 ?

 

 

 

 

you certainly deserve credit for persistence mate

 

that question I put back to the poster refers to the situation that a lot of the poor people who succumb to covid and winter illness often have multiple vulnerabilities resulting in the addition of a further issue (for want of a better phrase) tipping them over the edge - it refers to one debatable similarity between covid deaths and flu deaths - it does not for example make any comparison in scale - it doesn’t compare their r-values or whatever it is or anything else just that one-issue-too-many scenario (again for want of a better phrase)

 

I’ve made a few posts on this thread not prolific but a fair few - if you look closely you may something where I’ve (actually) contradicted myself or changed my stance - is it worth it tho? so far anything you’ve queried has been fully explainable and if you do find a genuine contradiction or something extra stupid I’ve said I’m just going to put my hands up to it and add it to the list of the multitude of other mistakes I’ve made during the duration of time

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Konrad von Carstein]

Do people REALLY think that anyone in Government UK or Devolved is enjoying this and wants to keep the populace under lock down interminably?

 

People using words & phrases such as, zealot, power going to head, power corrupting (sorry James these are used by you further up but the post isn't aimed at you) quite frankly are best ignored. 

 

My belief is that everyone, even that **** Bojo, is doing their utmost to bring this to a manageable* conclusion - their ability & whether they have the skills to do so is another discussion!

 

*This virus will be around forever imo

[Adam_the_legend]

1 hour ago, Ray Gin said:

 

I think she's fully aware that most people will not have had any vaccine yet and that many of the most vulnerable will have only had their first dose. 

She’s not referring to now, she’s talking about the future and the long term strategy. That’s why it makes no sense. 

[Footballfirst]

5 minutes ago, pablo said:

Surely as you work through the population in care homes, there's less to do each day? With new vaccination centres coming on stream, and sufficient vaccine in the country, how can you do less than the day before?

 

Something isn't right here.

Would yesterday's snowfall have caused a load of folk to miss their appointments?

[sadj]

6 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Protection builds after jab but takes 3 weeks to happen. They know antibody presence gives you 5 month immunity. They think it’s will be longer but can’t prove yet and they expect even longer with a vaccine as it triggers a higher antibody response. 
 

They commit to nothing as it’s so new. 
 

It wasn’t the best I have to say and I turned over. 

Likewise , it was like a cartoon where listening to it makes you go crosseyed 🤣 

 

 

[jamboj]

6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Well you obviously arent reading all the comments on this as several people are mentioning that their elderly parents have still not received the vaccine. 

And you obviously havent understood that there isn't enough supply of vaccine to have achieved this yet. No one has said there is. 

 

People in care homes have mostly been vaccinated, some exceptions. People over 80 and not in care homes are being vaccinated, or will be in the next couple of weeks. 

 

It takes time. And it's damned hard. Stop moaning 

[Taffin]

7 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Tax avoidance is perfectly legal tax evasion is not. 
 

It’s a important distinction, particularly when Hector is involved 

 

It is indeed, but you can make tax avoidance as legal or as illegal as you wish when you're the government.

[pablo]

5 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Would yesterday's snowfall have caused a load of folk to miss their appointments?

 Yes, I did wonder that myself. Hopefully, that's all it is.

[DETTY29]

10 minutes ago, jamboj said:

And you obviously havent understood that there isn't enough supply of vaccine to have achieved this yet. No one has said there is. 

 

People in care homes have mostly been vaccinated, some exceptions. People over 80 and not in care homes are being vaccinated, or will be in the next couple of weeks. 

 

It takes time. And it's damned hard. Stop moaning 

I hadn't realised Jackson Carlaw sat last week with Health bosses who explained the strategy (not sure if it was just an SNP,Tory or an all cross party meeting)

 

If he has concerns about the strategy call it.  If anything is not going to plan, or is clearly wrong, call it out, by specifics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by DETTY29

[Brighton Jambo]

Another way out of this is start building additional ICU and hospital capacity.  As in a huge national effort and start training thousands of nurses and doctors, incentivise the shit out of the jobs. It might be you have to have a fast track system.  

 

The one overriding constraint though all this is hospital capacity.  If that significantly increases you need less restrictions to ensure you don’t breach capacity.  
 

And for Christ sake shut the border and do hotel quarantine like other countries.  

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Do people REALLY think that anyone in Government UK or Devolved is enjoying this and wants to keep the populace under lock down interminably?

 

People using words & phrases such as, zealot, power going to head, power corrupting (sorry James these are used by you further up but the post isn't aimed at you) quite frankly are best ignored. 

 

My belief is that everyone, even that **** Bojo, is doing their utmost to bring this to a manageable* conclusion - their ability & whether they have the skills to do so is another discussion!

 

*This virus will be around forever imo

👍  In answer to your question NO i dont think the Govt are enjoying this. However I do think they should be held to account for their gross incompetence and neglect in the last 10 months.  There has never been an apology from either Govts about their negligence and how and why they are repeating the same mistakes as before. Its a scandal really. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 minutes ago, jamboj said:

And you obviously havent understood that there isn't enough supply of vaccine to have achieved this yet. No one has said there is. 

 

People in care homes have mostly been vaccinated, some exceptions. People over 80 and not in care homes are being vaccinated, or will be in the next couple of weeks. 

 

It takes time. And it's damned hard. Stop moaning 

Enough of your pontificating. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

If their best ignored why don’t you just ignore them 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

I agree with your belief, competence is the issue not intent, but I’m just an arsehole on JKB.
 

It’s a message board not a echo chamber. Enjoy the different opinions and remember we’re all an arsehole to someone 👍
 

😃🙂

[Victorian]

The info about a new fatality rate of 1.3 is a bit of potential concern but I reckon it's something to just wait and see how it develops.  No point jumping in with both feet before any more detail comes out.  My initial concern is that this theorised x1.3 death rate now presents itself after nearly 100,000 deaths,  many of which were people of heightened susceptibility and/or old age.  Or more bluntly,  as some of the 'sensible sceptics' might say,  all the people who were due to die anyway.  If we're now talking x1.3 across a markedly different profile of cases (possibly fewer heightened susceptibilities and/or lower average age) then the real term change in the death rate could be even worse.  Perhaps the x1.3 figure has already been adjusted to allow for this.  Perhaps there has already been an 'apples for apples' comparison done for a range of different ages and co-morbidities and then averaged out.

 

More info required for sure.

[Enzo Chiefo]

57 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Usually he only does the briefing when it’s good news.

 

It is good news. R is down to 0.8. Vaccines seem to be resistant to the new strains and nearly 500k were vaccinated today. You can start thinking ahead to the pubs opening👍

 

[Konrad von Carstein]

6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

👍  In answer to your question NO i dont think the Govt are enjoying this. However I do think they should be held to account for their gross incompetence and neglect in the last 10 months.  There has never been an apology from either Govts about their negligence and how and why they are repeating the same mistakes as before. Its a scandal really. 

Agree with that - I for one hope that there will be repercussions and people being held to account, not a witch hunt but there are things that do not sit right, PPE contracts & supply, not closing our borders, not enforcing measures rather than relying on the common sense of the British people

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Konrad von Carstein

[joondalupjambo]

14 minutes ago, jamboj said:

Go onto the JCVI website and look at the priority cohorts. It's not a lottery. It's being planned and executed in line with the best advice we have. I'm working on this programme, and comments like this are so dispiriting. 

I agree we need folk to be patient and work to the target dates and not a he says, she says, debate on an online forum.  However one  or two things you might know the answers to.  There are folk saying on KB that their parent(s) are 90 plus and no jab date but we hear a lot also saying about an 80+ being given or had the vaccine.  I am making two assumptions.

 

One is that if you are in the priority group of 80+ that if you have a health record involving recent illness, or an underlying health problem that you will be called for the jab earlier, i.e. an 82 year old with problems could get called before my mother who is 92 but who has no health record or underlying health issues.  It means therefore that younger people can be jabbed way before much older people in that same priority group.  Is that right or even possible?

 

And two that the supply of the vaccine is different to each of the health boards in Scotland and therefore the distribution is faster in some areas more than others.  Or is it the case that supply is exactly the same to each health board and it is the distribution within each that is a problem?  That could in turn jabs by post code.

 

No problem at all on how things are going, unlike some snipers in the trees but if you had any feedback on the above given your work in this programme it would be interesting to hear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lord Inglis]

13 minutes ago, jamboj said:

And you obviously havent understood that there isn't enough supply of vaccine to have achieved this yet. No one has said there is. 

 

People in care homes have mostly been vaccinated, some exceptions. People over 80 and not in care homes are being vaccinated, or will be in the next couple of weeks. 

 

It takes time. And it's damned hard. Stop moaning 

It does take time. But it isn't going fast enough. Whatever the plan is, it's a poor one and people are now seeing this. 

[steve123]

This new fatality rate is interesting Boris started of press conference making a big thing of it, however during the questions Whitty and Vallance said they were more reserved about it and had not seen enough evidence yet.

Edited January 22, 2021 by steve123

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Brian Dundas said:

Are they in care homes?

I dont know. Scroll back and you will see their comments. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

10 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

If their best ignored why don’t you just ignore them 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

I agree with your belief, competence is the issue not intent, but I’m just an arsehole on JKB.
 

It’s a message board not a echo chamber. Enjoy the different opinions and remember we’re all an arsehole to someone 👍
 

I was just belly rumbling

 

Oh, I am well aware of that  

[joondalupjambo]

21 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Would yesterday's snowfall have caused a load of folk to miss their appointments?

Now now FF that is far too sensible a comment, also well researched and accurate.  

It will not fit into a lot of the narrative on this thread I am afraid.

You must do better next time, go to the naughty step immediately

[sadj]

3 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

Now now FF that is far too sensible a comment, also well researched and accurate.  

It will not fit into a lot of the narrative on this thread I am afraid.

You must do better next time, go to the naughty step immediately

😁🤣

[jamboj]

8 minutes ago, Lord Inglis said:

It does take time. But it isn't going fast enough. Whatever the plan is, it's a poor one and people are now seeing this. 

I see

Do you have any spare vaccine that can be given out? If not, what are you talking about? 

[Nucky Thompson]

7 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The info about a new fatality rate of 1.3 is a bit of potential concern but I reckon it's something to just wait and see how it develops.  No point jumping in with both feet before any more detail comes out.  My initial concern is that this theorised x1.3 death rate now presents itself after nearly 100,000 deaths,  many of which were people of heightened susceptibility and/or old age.  Or more bluntly,  as some of the 'sensible sceptics' might say,  all the people who were due to die anyway.  If we're now talking x1.3 across a markedly different profile of cases (possibly fewer heightened susceptibilities and/or lower average age) then the real term change in the death rate could be even worse.  Perhaps the x1.3 figure has already been adjusted to allow for this.  Perhaps there has already been an 'apples for apples' comparison done for a range of different ages and co-morbidities and then averaged out.

 

More info required for sure.

They used an example of fatalities in over 60's could go from 10 in a 1000 to 13 in a 1000. 

Although they said there wasn't enough evidence yet to be sure

[Abiola Dauda]

Initial studies suggest the South Africa variant is resistant to the antibodies created by infection and therefore almost certainly will be resistant to antibodies made following vaccination. 

 

Borders haven't been closed and the variant will already be in the country and will become dominant after mass vaccination gives it an advantage in natural selection.   

 

I think there will be at least another full year of lockdowns.  This isn't going away any time soon. 

[Pans Jambo]

Foreign NHS workers helping to save the lives of Covid patients in England might not be allowe to get the vaccine. Nice lot these tories eh?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/22/foreign-nhs-workers-risk-being-denied-covid-vaccine-england?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
 

[DETTY29]

Old boy got his today at his local town hall.

 

All pretty seemless apparently although he was taken out to the back door of the hall by the nurse to be let away.

 

I thought we were being asked to hang around for 15 mins.  Maye it's on his records he has no allergies to jags so need to worry about.

Edited January 22, 2021 by DETTY29

[jamboj]

11 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

I agree we need folk to be patient and work to the target dates and not a he says, she says, debate on an online forum.  However one  or two things you might know the answers to.  There are folk saying on KB that their parent(s) are 90 plus and no jab date but we hear a lot also saying about an 80+ being given or had the vaccine.  I am making two assumptions.

 

One is that if you are in the priority group of 80+ that if you have a health record involving recent illness, or an underlying health problem that you will be called for the jab earlier, i.e. an 82 year old with problems could get called before my mother who is 92 but who has no health record or underlying health issues.  It means therefore that younger people can be jabbed way before much older people in that same priority group.  Is that right or even possible?

 

And two that the supply of the vaccine is different to each of the health boards in Scotland and therefore the distribution is faster in some areas more than others.  Or is it the case that supply is exactly the same to each health board and it is the distribution within each that is a problem?  That could in turn jabs by post code.

 

No problem at all on how things are going, unlike some snipers in the trees but if you had any feedback on the above given your work in this programme it would be interesting to hear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

To best of my knowledge, the over 80s cohort is one group. There is no prioritisation between healthy over 80s and higher risk over 80s. Different models in different places, but I'm not aware of anyone prioritising at board level. 

 

Re supply. (As I'm sure you know) the health boards are vastly different sizes. Supply is allocated on a population basis. None have any significant advantage over another 

[Nucky Thompson]

1 minute ago, Abiola Dauda said:

Initial studies suggest the South Africa variant is resistant to the antibodies created by infection and therefore almost certainly will be resistant to antibodies made following vaccination. 

 

 

Whitty and Vallance never mentioned that at all.

They said Pfizer are very confident that their vaccine will work after studies

[sadj]

3 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Foreign NHS workers helping to save the lives of Covid patients in England might not be allowe to get the vaccine. Nice lot these tories eh?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/22/foreign-nhs-workers-risk-being-denied-covid-vaccine-england?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
 

Can’t be serious

3 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Old boy got his today at his local town hall.

 

All pretty seemless apparently although he was taken out to the back door of the hall by the nurse to be let away.

 

I thought we were being asked to hang around for 15 mins.  Maye it's on his records he has no allergies to jags so need to worry about.

Keep a wee eye on him mate. My pal is a healthy 30year old and she was quite violently ill yesterday and her colleague couldn’t walk a day or so after getting their jabs. It passed but they found it quite scary.

[Victorian]

The other things to consider regarding this x1.3 death rate involves the so-called more deadly strain causing x1.3 deaths during a period when the hospitals have more and improved treatments,  drugs,  therapeutics,  etc.  There's a few things in the arsenal that weren't there during the earlier times.  That's concerning.

 

The other thing is a higher rate of very serious cases in hospital.  More deaths means some people are spending longer periods in hospital,  which means fewer places becoming available.  Everything increasing the workload and strain on the hospital staff.

 

Just have to wait to see how it develops but it's quite likely to extend lockdown.  All this delays the day when hospitals are deemed to have been protected.  The entire strategy,  including the vaccine roll-out,  is designed to normalise the NHS to enable lockdown to be eased.

 

To me it looks like we've just had our prison sentences increased.

[frankblack]

16 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

Are they in care homes?

 

One of my friends' Mum's is both in the age bracket and with disabilities and carers at home.  Mine is healthy but in that mid-80s age bracket.

 

Shouldn't the vulnerable be getting vaccinated regardless of whether they are in a care home?  My brother has an immune system disorder and heard sod all also.

Edited January 22, 2021 by frankblack

[Abiola Dauda]

1 minute ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Whitty and Vallance never mentioned that at all.

They said Pfizer are very confident that their vaccine will work after studies

It works for the UK variant, yes.  Other variants much more concerning: 

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00121-z

[CavySlaveJambo]

4 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Old boy got his today at his local town hall.

 

All pretty seemless apparently although he was taken out to the back door of the hall by the nurse to be let away.

 

I thought we were being asked to hang around for 15 mins.  Maye it's on his records he has no allergies to jags so need to worry about.

It depends on which vaccine he got. It is the Pfizer one which they need to monitor for 15 minutes after. 
 

Also to even consider fully opening up you need 75-80% of the  population vaccinated.    

[Victorian]

8 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

They used an example of fatalities in over 60's could go from 10 in a 1000 to 13 in a 1000. 

Although they said there wasn't enough evidence yet to be sure

 

Open jury then.  There may be other factors that might lessen the initial concerns.  But the fact that these deaths have occurred despite the hospitals having a bigger toolbox is a concern.

[DETTY29]

19 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Is your old boy England? It was just use of town hall made me wonder, 

Nope.

 

Castle Douglas (aye so virtually England)  His flu jag was town hall based last year as well.

 

D&G appear to be going down more community style centres than GPs.  There was 6 folk in at a sitting when he was done.

 

At his GPs I couldn't say how many could be done at once, but I'd say less. Plus the GP practices can get to focus on their day job.

 

I think my 2 uncles and 2 aunts down there have been done this week too, with one of my aunts although below 80, done at the same time as my uncle.

 

D&G fully anticipate to have done all 80s+ a week early by end January and the 75s by the following week.  

 

I had a look at the Edinburgh Hubs a few days ago and it did appear very much GP based.

 

You have of course rural v. city differentials but is the NHS Lothian GP focus approach the best for the priority vulnerable groups?

 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by DETTY29

[Lord Inglis]

15 minutes ago, jamboj said:

I see

Do you have any spare vaccine that can be given out? If not, what are you talking about? 

What I do know is my perfectly healthy in-laws in their early 70s living in a cumbrian backwater got jabbed with the Oxford vaccine yesterday.

 

What I also know is the programme here has hardly touched 80 year olds in the community and by the looks of the evidence on this thread folks older than that. 

 

Leads me to conclude that something ain't right in the Scottish rollout and given it's pretty much the only thing I've ever cared about where my tax money goes I'm going to challenge it to ensure my relatives,  and yours, get this vaccine as quickly as possible.