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scotty2442

Players suited/not suited to Gengenpressen

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scotty2442

Do we think there will be wholesale changes to the starting 11 under Stendel? 
 

Do we have players that just won’t suit his “Gengenpressen” style ? 
 

For me there are quite a few players and areas that might be a concern straight away. 
 

Firstly Stendel will likely want to play the ball out from the back so he’ll want a good ball playing goalkeeper and centre backs that are capable on the ball,  that could finally see Berra benched and hopefully see us go to market for a new goal keeper in January. 
 

That tactic is all about pressing and winning the the ball back high up the pitch,  again my concern would be that we don’t have the legs especially through the middle of the pitch. 
 

We’ve just hired a manager that’s all about high energy football, and the energy is definitely the one thing we’ve lacked for a long time, so it’s going to be interested to see what players stand up to be counted and which ones fall by the way side

 

Budge seemed reluctant during her press conference when she was asked about “would there be funds for the new manager”, and it’s clear we probably don’t have the players for Stendels style so I’m wondering what assurances she gave him for January to make changes. 

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Dusk_Till_Dawn

Berra would have to go. I mean, he needs to go anyway but playing out from the back with him? You have to be kidding.

 

New keeper essential. Tbf to Stendel, don’t expect too much too soon. Very difficult to implement a different style midway through the season and when we’re in such a mess. I’d take 10th place and the end of this season now tbh.

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Mikey1874

Probably not Olly Lee.

 

It's a good question. Might suggest some young players will get a chance. 

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

Probably not Olly Lee.

 

It's a good question. Might suggest some young players will get a chance. 


Guys like Whelan would struggle with a more high tempo game. It has to be said that given Naismith’s fitness problems, a hardcore pressing game could be a struggle for him too. 
 

Fundamentally, we need a completely different squad. So many substandard players, which seemed to be Levein’s speciality in the transfer market. I’m most interested in where we are in 12 months time and I’ll reserve all judgement until then. Stendel’s been dealt a pretty shocking hand.

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Baxfee

Will be interesting to what he can do with Clare, Mulraney, meshino, Keena, wighton, and Halkett. All young and relatively athletic. His type of player if you go with the summaries in media. 

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alanbauld
7 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Probably not Olly Lee.

 

It's a good question. Might suggest some young players will get a chance. 

 

Totally agree with this, ideal tactics for our young players with quality experienced players suited to the Scottish game fitted in around them. Would go with a first team pool of 2 youngsters to 1 experienced so the youngsters can be rested often enough to stop burn out occurring. NO MORE standard journeymen signed in quantity please.

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been here before

"The High Press / Geggenpressen"

 

Mind when you just used to pressure teams, get in their faces and play high up the park.

 

Same kind of 'experts' come out with this shite that use phrases like expected goals.

 

Anyway to answer the question, who knows we seldom pressure any teams for any amount of time. We might be shit hot at it as unlikely as it seems.

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scott herbertson
3 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:


Guys like Whelan would struggle with a more high tempo game. It has to be said that given Naismith’s fitness problems, a hardcore pressing game could be a struggle for him too. 
 

Fundamentally, we need a completely different squad. So many substandard players, which seemed to be Levein’s speciality in the transfer market. I’m most interested in where we are in 12 months time and I’ll reserve all judgement until then. Stendel’s been dealt a pretty shocking hand.

 

 

Naismith to me has always played the hard pressing game

 

The problem has been few of his teammates seem to have the ability or guts to play it unless he's there to gee them up

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Finlay James

The new style will be bled in gradually but don't expect too much change until the summer.

 

Stendels first priority will be to draw a line in the sand and give everyone a clean slate.  He'll need to lift the players confidence and work with what he has initially.  The biggest plus is that the academy is chock full of talent who are very well coached.  I suspect any changes will involve some young lads coming into the team.

 

Of the senior players suited to his preferred style right now, who knows.  We have a very decent squad but for reasons unknown, they have zero confidence and have lost any idea of how to get a win.

 

Big job ahead and I only hope that the usual moaning dickheads give him the breathing space to sort us out.

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livi
2 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

Naismith to me has always played the hard pressing game

 

The problem has been few of his teammates seem to have the ability or guts to play it unless he's there to gee them up

 

Agree, the number of times you see Naismith chasing down a ball back at the goalie and he turns round to see nobody has followed him up.   Hopefully this will change and the opposition will have to do the thumping up the park. 

 

 

 

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boag1874

It’s worth noting we’ve done reasonably well with a couple of outstanding results whenever we’ve played a high press against the OF at tynie. Obviously I expect Stendel to play an even more intense version of the tactic but theres evIdence to show that some of the players might just surprise us here.

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
8 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

Naismith to me has always played the hard pressing game

 

The problem has been few of his teammates seem to have the ability or guts to play it unless he's there to gee them up


His body hasn’t held up so far though. That’s my concern.

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Furious Styles

The new buzzword. Makes you sound like a pretentious arsehole. 

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JamboAl
5 minutes ago, Finlay James said:

The new style will be bled in gradually but don't expect too much change until the summer.

 

Stendels first priority will be to draw a line in the sand and give everyone a clean slate.  He'll need to lift the players confidence and work with what he has initially.  The biggest plus is that the academy is chock full of talent who are very well coached.  I suspect any changes will involve some young lads coming into the team.

 

Of the senior players suited to his preferred style right now, who knows.  We have a very decent squad but for reasons unknown, they have zero confidence and have lost any idea of how to get a win.

 

Big job ahead and I only hope that the usual moaning dickheads give him the breathing space to sort us out.

That may well be true but the likeliest lads (Cochrane, McDonald, C Smith etc) all seem to be out on loan and therefore not available to DS until next season - unless there are return clauses in the loan contracts which could see them available next month.

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JamboAndrew

Really hope hungry youngsters are brought in to put the fear in every player who assumes he will be playing and that they see if they don't bust a gut that their place will go to the yougster.

 

I expect a decent improvement in terms of effort. But it will take a preseason before we see a real style change I think.

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Mikey1874
12 minutes ago, been here before said:

"The High Press / Geggenpressen"

 

Mind when you just used to pressure teams, get in their faces and play high up the park.

 

Same kind of 'experts' come out with this shite that use phrases like expected goals.

 

Anyway to answer the question, who knows we seldom pressure any teams for any amount of time. We might be shit hot at it as unlikely as it seems.

 

The team that beat Celtic 4-0

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KyleLafferty

This pressing game isn’t all about constantly running😂!! It’s about being positioned in the right areas at the right time. You don’t have to be the fittest or the fastest, but you need to think! Also pressing as a team, one can’t go and press the whole team needs to shift. Every player is capable of doing so but will have actually think a bit more. 

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Mikey1874
1 minute ago, JamboAndrew said:

Really hope hungry youngsters are brought in to put the fear in every player who assumes he will be playing and that they see if they don't bust a gut that their place will go to the yougster.

 

I expect a decent improvement in terms of effort. But it will take a preseason before we see a real style change I think.

 

He'll probably need pre season to properly change it and then that might take longer.

 

But teams have done it using more or less their existing squad and using youngsters a bit more. 

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Mort

This is exactly what has been needed. High tempo and press, particularly at Tynecastle. So important to get early goals and on top early to keep the atmosphere and tails up.

 

The likes of Berra, Dikamona and MacLean are as good as done. Probably White too.

 

I suspect we will look to do a good couple of moves in January hopefully including moving a few on. 
 

 

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JimKongUno

Styles and formations dont mean shit , its results that matter . If geggenpressing wins us games then great , if not i hope he has some other ideas up his sleeve

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been here before
2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

The team that beat Celtic 4-0

 

Which is why I said "seldom".

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scotty2442
6 minutes ago, Dino Velvet said:

The new buzzword. Makes you sound like a pretentious arsehole. 

Hence why I used “ “ 

 

twat

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Nookie Bear

It’s not reinventing the wheel, it used to be called “putting a ******* shift in”. 
 

We played it under Burley, and JJ and MacDonald before that. It’s only when the “thinking” coaches came along that we started to go soft. 

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Mikey1874
1 minute ago, been here before said:

 

Which is why I said "seldom".

 

And crucially depends on how other teams play. 

 

Flexible would be what I would hope for. 

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Ma Roon

No. you would like to think that Dan can improve all of the squad. Maybe add a few players at most could easily take us into the top 6 You just have to see what Clarke and Rodgers did without signing anybody 

Maybe he will like some academy players 

A good coach will save us millions we don't have 

A new playing style will not happen overnight and would need time 

Edited by Still Tynie

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soonbe110
30 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Probably not Olly Lee.

 

It's a good question. Might suggest some young players will get a chance. 

Interesting post on the original Stengel thread yesterday from Scunny123 that Stengel was at the Gillingham game. If true he could well have been checking out Olly Lee. 

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soonbe110
13 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

That may well be true but the likeliest lads (Cochrane, McDonald, C Smith etc) all seem to be out on loan and therefore not available to DS until next season - unless there are return clauses in the loan contracts which could see them available next month.

I’d assume that all loan deals that can be terminated in January will be so that he can see what he has got before major changes in summer. 

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Special Officer Doofy

Personally I think we will need two or three players, but I think we have good players who are underperforming too. Not too worried. Pretty sure he would have liked to have Naismith, Souttar, Whelan and a couple of others in his Barnsley team that he won promotion with.

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sac
5 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

I’d assume that all loan deals that can be terminated in January will be so that he can see what he has got before major changes in summer. 

Gary Naysmith might be busy in January then.

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Mikey1874
6 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

I’d assume that all loan deals that can be terminated in January will be so that he can see what he has got before major changes in summer. 

 

Yes

 

The transfer rules allow you to change loans in the transfer window.

 

All the deals are till January. 

Edited by Mikey1874

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Paul Shark
34 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:


Guys like Whelan would struggle with a more high tempo game. It has to be said that given Naismith’s fitness problems, a hardcore pressing game could be a struggle for him too. 
 

Fundamentally, we need a completely different squad. So many substandard players, which seemed to be Levein’s speciality in the transfer market. I’m most interested in where we are in 12 months time and I’ll reserve all judgement until then. Stendel’s been dealt a pretty shocking hand.

I agree. But Stendel must see things in the current squad or has been given assurances that money is available to change things, or he wouldn't have taken the job.

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been here before
Just now, sac said:

Gary Naysmith might be busy in January then.

 

Gengenbusyen surely?

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
Just now, Paul Shark said:

I agree. But Stendel must see things in the current squad or has been given assurances that money is available to change things, or he wouldn't have taken the job.


Yeah, you would think so. Going to take him time though. Hopefully he flogs the players stupid this week, to the point of near death. They’re a disgrace.

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Cruickshank for Scotland
35 minutes ago, Baxfee said:

Will be interesting to what he can do with Clare, Mulraney, meshino, Keena, wighton, and Halkett. All young and relatively athletic. His type of player if you go with the summaries in media. 


I’ll tell what he can do with Clare and Wighton - bin them!

As for the others hopefully they can thrive under the new man.

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Finlay James
23 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

That may well be true but the likeliest lads (Cochrane, McDonald, C Smith etc) all seem to be out on loan and therefore not available to DS until next season - unless there are return clauses in the loan contracts which could see them available next month.

 

Theyre all back in January

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Ford Prentice
30 minutes ago, been here before said:

"The High Press / Geggenpressen"

 

Mind when you just used to pressure teams, get in their faces and play high up the park.

 

Same kind of 'experts' come out with this shite that use phrases like expected goals.

 

Anyway to answer the question, who knows we seldom pressure any teams for any amount of time. We might be shit hot at it as unlikely as it seems.

 

Gegenpress is one word. Your alternative is twelve. It may not be a new way to play but it's a useful borrowed word, language moves on.

 

By the way: Welcome Daniel, now lets gegenpress right into them

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been here before
Just now, Ford Prentice said:

 

Gegenpress is one word. Your alternative is twelve. It may not be a new way to play but it's a useful borrowed word, language moves on.

 

By the way: Welcome Daniel, now lets gegenpress right into them

 

My alternative is 3 different phrases.

 

Pressure is one word.

 

Playing high is two

 

In their faces is three so perhaps a bit more difficult for some but on the plus side pretentious wank is only 2.

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south morocco
22 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

It’s not reinventing the wheel, it used to be called “putting a ******* shift in”. 
 

We played it under Burley, and JJ and MacDonald before that. It’s only when the “thinking” coaches came along that we started to go soft. 

Yip, back to good old old fashioned hard work as a team.

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Paris 84

 

Personally, I’m no sure we need to debate who in the squad is capable of doing this or that. The easiest thing the new manager could do would be to tell the team to just move up the park 15yds from where they currently set up without the ball. 

 

I’d be inclined to issue two additional instruction as well;

 

1. I’d make it clear to the midfield players that the first player he sees, passing back to the defence, when there’s time and space to go forward (under no real pressure) will be subbed. 

 

2. I’d tell Jake Mulraney (the alleged flying machine) the first time I see you with lots of space in behind your full back and you don’t attack the line, you’re off. 

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A_A wehatethehibs

Yes we do, we have some good athletes. Washington will be important when he gets back playing, Uche always runs himself into the ground. Clare gets stick but he run a lot, maybe there’s a way Stendel can unlock some kind of useful contribution from him. Damour too looks an athlete but we’ve not really seen him fully fit. We know what Smith offers - always gives 100%. Then there’s the likes of Mulraney Morrison Brandon Hickey, Meshino all young guys with legs full of running - get them all doing the basics right, players knowing their jobs, there’s a chance we could play a good pressing game.  

 

Lets hope we see a team transformed 

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busby1985

High Press is about two things. 
 

Fitness. 
 

You have to be as fit as you can be to play it. That’s going to be issue number one for Stendel. The players are MILES away from being fit enough, they don’t even look match sharp most of the time. My hope is that is due to the old regime and their methods day to day. Robbie Neilson for example had us the fittest I’ve ever seen a hearts side and most of the time under him we managed to beat teams purely by being able to run longer than them and at a higher tempo and intensity. We’ve been laborious for years, stagnate right throughout the club so that’s going to be a very hard task to change. 
 

Desire. 
 

The high press requires desire to run the yards and the desire to sacrifice yourself for the team. Watch Liverpool, Man City for example. You’ll see players like Robertson run half the length of the pitch just to create an option, 5/10 he doesn’t even get the pass or the ball but he offers himself and makes the run because he knows that by being in that area of the park it limits the options for the opposition and helps his other team mates in the press. Right now, we don’t have that desire. Players hide and or sulk when they don’t get the ball or what they try doesn’t come off. I hope with a new attitude from the management and a new vision, that’ll change. 
 

The positive thing for us is this. The above can be coached and turned around quickly. I think a huge part of our current problem is we spend too much time focusing on who we are playing and not enough time on our own game. Without trying to be negative, as in Levein and co, it is and can be seen as a negative approach and I think Stendel will come in and focus purely on us and only us. He seems infectious and will be bouncing about the touch line. Levein, mainly due to experience and health, had lost that. For ages we’ve all been saying Levein had lost his “Levein”ness. He seemed to allow players away with murder, something he wouldn’t have stood for years ago. MacPhee just looks beat all the time. The players will get a big boost from having someone on them. 
 

The high press is also the style I think that suits the fans. It mixes out balls and ball retention but with a purpose. Cathro tried possession but we kept it in silly areas of the park and never had the players to play his style. Levein tried to be containing and we didn’t have the players to play it. We have the players for the high press. 
 

Am proper buzzing about Stendel. 

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Paul Shark
9 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:


Yeah, you would think so. Going to take him time though. Hopefully he flogs the players stupid this week, to the point of near death. They’re a disgrace.

I hope it's a similar situation to what Gerrard did. Players get extensive fitness and body condition tests and those not up to the mark get an absolute rocket. I'm hoping that guys like Jamie Walker are in for a huge culture shock. He strikes me as being the epitome of unprofessional.

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Boy Daniel
41 minutes ago, Dino Velvet said:

The new buzzword. Makes you sound like a pretentious arsehole. 

:verysmug:

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Rory Mcilroy

At least we should see some aggression right away, even if the pressing will be a work in progress. 

 

We're such a nice team to play against. It was embarrassing how easy we let Well get into our final 3rd yesterday. 

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JamboAl
37 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

And crucially depends on how other teams play. 

 

Flexible would be what I would hope for. 

This

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wavydavy
1 hour ago, scotty2442 said:

Do we think there will be wholesale changes to the starting 11 under Stendel? 
 

Do we have players that just won’t suit his “Gengenpressen” style ? 
 

For me there are quite a few players and areas that might be a concern straight away. 
 

Firstly Stendel will likely want to play the ball out from the back so he’ll want a good ball playing goalkeeper and centre backs that are capable on the ball,  that could finally see Berra benched and hopefully see us go to market for a new goal keeper in January. 
 

That tactic is all about pressing and winning the the ball back high up the pitch,  again my concern would be that we don’t have the legs especially through the middle of the pitch. 
 

We’ve just hired a manager that’s all about high energy football, and the energy is definitely the one thing we’ve lacked for a long time, so it’s going to be interested to see what players stand up to be counted and which ones fall by the way side

 

Budge seemed reluctant during her press conference when she was asked about “would there be funds for the new manager”, and it’s clear we probably don’t have the players for Stendels style so I’m wondering what assurances she gave him for January to make changes. 

 

Exactly this. Walker, Bozanic, Whelan and Damour none of them have any real pace and Walker would struggle to last 45 mins with his fitness levels.

 

Some of our younger players may be better suited such as Irving but very few of our central mids have any pace.

 

I would have thought that she would be foolish to give Stendel a deal and then not back him with the players he will no doubt say he needs.

 

She really has to think from a financial point of view how much would relegation cost the club compared to perhaps bringing in 2 or 3 players in January and hopefully we can move a few out the door as well but that will be more difficult.

Edited by wavydavy

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rick witter
59 minutes ago, Baxfee said:

Will be interesting to what he can do with Clare, Mulraney, meshino, Keena, wighton, and Halkett. All young and relatively athletic. His type of player if you go with the summaries in media. 

Tell them they are free to go. 

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NB GIN
1 hour ago, scotty2442 said:

Do we think there will be wholesale changes to the starting 11 under Stendel? 
 

Do we have players that just won’t suit his “Gengenpressen” style ? 
 

For me there are quite a few players and areas that might be a concern straight away. 
 

Firstly Stendel will likely want to play the ball out from the back so he’ll want a good ball playing goalkeeper and centre backs that are capable on the ball,  that could finally see Berra benched and hopefully see us go to market for a new goal keeper in January. 
 

That tactic is all about pressing and winning the the ball back high up the pitch,  again my concern would be that we don’t have the legs especially through the middle of the pitch. 
 

We’ve just hired a manager that’s all about high energy football, and the energy is definitely the one thing we’ve lacked for a long time, so it’s going to be interested to see what players stand up to be counted and which ones fall by the way side

 

Budge seemed reluctant during her press conference when she was asked about “would there be funds for the new manager”, and it’s clear we probably don’t have the players for Stendels style so I’m wondering what assurances she gave him for January to make changes. 

If he does  play out from the back Berra is finished Halkett Souttar smith much better at this as is dikamona.

I think he will bring in about 4-5 players in January and midfielders is a priority 

I do think Washington will excel when fit and do see uche doing well too 

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gashauskis9

My immediate thoughts based on current squad:

 

Suited;

- Naismith

- Clare

- Wighton

- Mulraney 

- Walker circa 2016/17

- Haring (possibly)

- Brandon (limited defender, but always presses high)

 

This isn’t based on quality, it’s based on style, important that I make that clear!


The rest will seriously struggle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Debut 4

While certain physical attributes are suited to playing a particular way I often think it’s still a matter of mentality. 

 

Some of our players have poor concentration, some don’t work hard enough or are willing. 

 

Some things can be remedied and you can pull some players into line but you’ll always be fighting against players who just naturally lack the correct focus. 

 

Yesterday, It was interesting to hear the commentators on radio talk about our lack of athleticism and willingness to work hard.

 

Stendel needs to sort that first I’d have thought.  

 

 

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