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Players suited/not suited to Gengenpressen


scotty2442

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53 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

He'll probably need pre season to properly change it and then that might take longer.

 

But teams have done it using more or less their existing squad and using youngsters a bit more. 

 

Once he settles in,a lot of players will be moving on,they will not be up to his standard.

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33 minutes ago, Ford Prentice said:

 

Gegenpress is one word. Your alternative is twelve. It may not be a new way to play but it's a useful borrowed word, language moves on.

 

By the way: Welcome Daniel, now lets gegenpress right into them


At last!

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1 hour ago, Dino Velvet said:

The new buzzword. Makes you sound like a pretentious arsehole. 

 

Aye. Some utter wank term like 'park the bus'.

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My first thought would be our 'best' back 4 on paper suits him. Smith Souttar Halkett Hickey - All athletic and have plenty stamina to do that pressing game. Both CB's are actually footballers too which bodes well. 

 

Midfield is a shambles I think. Whelan is too old to press for 90 minutes, but he does have the quality in his locker. So who knows? Irving and Haring could probably both play like that. Meshino too. Clare possibly, as he's a good runner but needs to sack up. Mulraney and Morrison both could but neither I think are good enough. Walker needs to, otherwise he'll wind up playing for Motherwell or something. He ****ed his move to the huns and ****ed his move down South. The only way is down unless he shoes Stendel something. Damour is a lost cause.

 

Forward options are an abomination. Naismith will just keep pulling his hamstring. Macleans too old. Uche's useless in front of goal. Washington could, Wighton could (but lacks baws) Keena? 

 

I think Stendels best shot is to bring as many youngsters into the team as possible. It will serve him well next season when he'll be getting a clean break. FWIW I think he might be the right sort to try and get something out of Clare and Wighton.  

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CL perhaps rightly took a lot of praise from the Celtic games we won at home. Mainly because we pressed and pressed and ran and ran! But really to get the players “up for it” against Celtic at home is easy! It tells us all we need to know about CL that it was almost always only Celtic we have played this style of football. A good manager/motivator should be able to get this 90% of the matches! 

 

Jamie Walker and dare I say it Sean Clare should benefit from a manager like this! I watched Walker a lot yesterday and he was bloody shocking again! Not a defensive midfielder but not an attacking one either! A good few times he won the ball and we were attacking and he’s jogging!! If that was Hartley or Cameron they would be doing the 50m sprint to get in that box! That boy needs a serious wake up or this will likely be his last contract in the top flight

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Nelly Terraces

Levein has painted us in a corner by spunking away any available cash on utter dross & players who are as slow as a week in the jail. 'Thanks' Craig - another top job done there.

 

So, Herr Stendel may be forced into dipping into the more youthful ranks to get the necessary players capable of playing a more dynamic style with the quality to match. Recalls for Cochrane & McDonald should be high on his priority list.

Edited by Nelly Terraces
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Tom Hardy’s Dug
1 hour ago, boag1874 said:

It’s worth noting we’ve done reasonably well with a couple of outstanding results whenever we’ve played a high press against the OF at tynie. Obviously I expect Stendel to play an even more intense version of the tactic but theres evIdence to show that some of the players might just surprise us here.

 

1 hour ago, KyleLafferty said:

This pressing game isn’t all about constantly running😂!! It’s about being positioned in the right areas at the right time. You don’t have to be the fittest or the fastest, but you need to think! Also pressing as a team, one can’t go and press the whole team needs to shift. Every player is capable of doing so but will have actually think a bit more. 


Agree with this

 

A lot of people are also ignoring the record Stendel has of improving players - Jesus he even turned that ex-Thistle player onto a seven figure value player!

 

I think properly coached we have the players to start to carry this out. I think we should recall all our loanees ASAP in Jan.

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Seymour M Hersh

I asked a question on the DS arrival thread to Barnsley fans looking in how good or bad their squad was when he arrived and how quick he turned it around. I'm struggling to believe their squad on paper would be better than the one we have but you never know. 

Edited by Seymour M Hersh
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Vast majority of the squad aren’t suited to a pressing game. That being said, whose who are may not be at the required standard to play for the club, e.g. Mulraney. 

 

Players who I would bin: (just shows how bad a job Murray and Levein have done)

 

Perieria (loan expiry and do not want him back)

Zlamal 

Brandon

Dikamona

Berra 

Aidy White 

Lee

Bozanic 

Mulraney 

Whelan

Damour 

Morrison 

MacLean

Uche 

Keena

Meshino (loan expiry but would want back)

 

Question marks:

Clare - can he finally become good under an attacking manager 

Wighton - will he get a consistent run in the team or will he be loaned out for the rest of his Hearts career before leaving on a free 

Naismith - is his body completely finished, I think so

Irving - promising young player but I can’t see him having the legs and pace to play at a high pressing game, needs to work on that 

Peter Haring - think he is quality but will he ever play for us again?

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Jambof3tornado
18 minutes ago, ford donald said:

 

Once he settles in,a lot of players will be moving on,they will not be up to his standard.

With only a 2.5 year deal how long will it take to get rid of those not suited and bring in  those we need to match Stendels ambition?

 

Contracted players as we know to our cost, rarely walk away because they arent playing. I cant see any more that 3 moving out and in come january, so we may just have to hope that more of the squad can adjust. 

 

I think Bozanic could be very good at the pressing game but needs to learn to take a chance and pass forward rather than looking to the safe option, mulraney and Clare too.

 

Exciting times ahead.

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The Mercer Takeover
3 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

My immediate thoughts based on current squad:

 

Suited;

- Naismith

- Clare

- Wighton

- Mulraney 

- Walker circa 2016/17

- Haring (possibly)

- Brandon (limited defender, but always presses high)

 

This isn’t based on quality, it’s based on style, important that I make that clear!


The rest will seriously struggle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Naismith is clearly suited to this and hopefully his injury problems will subside.

 

These others on the other hand have limited or no future in a high press or otherwise.

 

- Clare

Only visible for about 10 mins every game and liabilities like him should not survive a critical review. 

 

- Wighton

May have the energy but simply not fit for purpose as a footballer.

 

- Mulraney 

Probably got the legs but we will win nothing with him in the team. Switches off too frequently.

 

- Walker circa 2016/17

That Walker doesn't exist anymore. Didn't look like he was running freely yesterday. Finished.

 

- Haring (possibly)

Ideal player for this game but looks finished.

 

- Brandon (limited)

Had been better the least few games in terms of going forward but is just not a good defender. Has a proven track record of being a total liability. A high press requires everyone in the team pulling the same way. Brandon can't be trusted and will likely get sent off anyway.

 

To me  this also spells the end for the likes of Cochrane. He is slower than tectonic plates moving and pace is crucial to this style of football.

 

I know Whelan has generally been ok in front of the defense, however there were times yesterday when he was slower than Berra. Motherwell were quick, pacy and mobile, exactly what we need to be.

 

 

 

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Jambof3tornado
4 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

Vast majority of the squad aren’t suited to a pressing game. That being said, whose who are may not be at the required standard to play for the club, e.g. Mulraney. 

 

Players who I would bin: (just shows how bad a job Murray and Levein have done)

 

Perieria (loan expiry and do not want him back)

Zlamal 

Brandon

Dikamona

Berra 

Aidy White 

Lee

Bozanic 

Mulraney 

Whelan

Damour 

Morrison 

MacLean

Uche 

Keena

Meshino (loan expiry but would want back)

 

Question marks:

Clare - can he finally become good under an attacking manager 

Wighton - will he get a consistent run in the team or will he be loaned out for the rest of his Hearts career before leaving on a free 

Naismith - is his body completely finished, I think so

Irving - promising young player but I can’t see him having the legs and pace to play at a high pressing game, needs to work on that 

Peter Haring - think he is quality but will he ever play for us again?

Not a chance of binning all of those. No danger.

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15 minutes ago, Nelly Terraces said:

Levein has painted us in a corner by spunking away any available cash on utter dross & players who are as slow as a week in the jail. 'Thanks' Craig - another top job done there.

 

So, Herr Stendel may be forced into dipping into the more youthful ranks to get the necessary players capable of playing a more dynamic style with the quality to match. Recalls for Cochrane & McDonald should be high on his priority list.


Cochrane is struggling to make any impact in a league below.

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56 minutes ago, Paris 84 said:

 

Personally, I’m no sure we need to debate who in the squad is capable of doing this or that. The easiest thing the new manager could do would be to tell the team to just move up the park 15yds from where they currently set up without the ball. 

 

I’d be inclined to issue two additional instruction as well;

 

1. I’d make it clear to the midfield players that the first player he sees, passing back to the defence, when there’s time and space to go forward (under no real pressure) will be subbed. 

 

2. I’d tell Jake Mulraney (the alleged flying machine) the first time I see you with lots of space in behind your full back and you don’t attack the line, you’re off. 

All substitutions done in first 10

minutes ?

If any manager applied such hard and fast rules he'd be gone in weeks .

Like to think Stendel will be around for a wee while longer

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6 minutes ago, The Mercer Takeover said:

Naismith is clearly suited to this and hopefully his injury problems will subside.

 

These others on the other hand have limited or no future in a high press or otherwise.

 

- Clare

Only visible for about 10 mins every game and liabilities like him should not survive a critical review. 

 

- Wighton

May have the energy but simply not fit for purpose as a footballer.

 

- Mulraney 

Probably got the legs but we will win nothing with him in the team. Switches off too frequently.

 

- Walker circa 2016/17

That Walker doesn't exist anymore. Didn't look like he was running freely yesterday. Finished.

 

- Haring (possibly)

Ideal player for this game but looks finished.

 

- Brandon (limited)

Had been better the least few games in terms of going forward but is just not a good defender. Has a proven track record of being a total liability. A high press requires everyone in the team pulling the same way. Brandon can't be trusted and will likely get sent off anyway.

 

To me  this also spells the end for the likes of Cochrane. He is slower than tectonic plates moving and pace is crucial to this style of football.

 

I know Whelan has generally been ok in front of the defense, however there were times yesterday when he was slower than Berra. Motherwell were quick, pacy and mobile, exactly what we need to be.

 

 

 

 Not saying that these players are the answer and should be retained, just saying that between now and the 1st Jan (Earliest we can do anything about it). I’d expect them to adapt to this style quicker than the others.  

 

If it was possible to recall Lee I would as well, we miss his set pieces and willingness to take a shot from distance.

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Jambof3tornado
26 minutes ago, Nelly Terraces said:

Levein has painted us in a corner by spunking away any available cash on utter dross & players who are as slow as a week in the jail. 'Thanks' Craig - another top job done there.

 

So, Herr Stendel may be forced into dipping into the more youthful ranks to get the necessary players capable of playing a more dynamic style with the quality to match. Recalls for Cochrane & McDonald should be high on his priority list.

He's happy to use young guys, as long as there's some experience in the team to hold them when things go wrong.

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10 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

Vast majority of the squad aren’t suited to a pressing game. That being said, whose who are may not be at the required standard to play for the club, e.g. Mulraney. 

 

Players who I would bin: (just shows how bad a job Murray and Levein have done)

 

Perieria (loan expiry and do not want him back)

Zlamal 

Brandon

Dikamona

Berra 

Aidy White 

Lee

Bozanic 

Mulraney 

Whelan

Damour 

Morrison 

MacLean

Uche 

Keena

Meshino (loan expiry but would want back)

 

Question marks:

Clare - can he finally become good under an attacking manager 

Wighton - will he get a consistent run in the team or will he be loaned out for the rest of his Hearts career before leaving on a free 

Naismith - is his body completely finished, I think so

Irving - promising young player but I can’t see him having the legs and pace to play at a high pressing game, needs to work on that 

Peter Haring - think he is quality but will he ever play for us again?

I think you and realism have parted company.

Firstly you want to keep Doyle ahead of Bobby Z, it seems.

Secondly you want rid of at least 15 players.  Some might walk willingly but others would need a pay-off and we need a load of money to hire replacements.

I'm afraid such transition is going to take more than 1 transfer window.

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Jambof3tornado
9 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

No chance yes, but it is required 

The size of axe required is one of gargantuan proportions but it will take quite some time.

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50 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

My immediate thoughts based on current squad:

 

Suited;

- Naismith

- Clare

- Wighton

- Mulraney 

- Walker circa 2016/17

- Haring (possibly)

- Brandon (limited defender, but always presses high)

 

This isn’t based on quality, it’s based on style, important that I make that clear!


The rest will seriously struggle.

 

Cochrane, McDonald, Henderson, Smith would do okay 

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3 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Cochrane, McDonald, Henderson, Smith would do okay 

They would, but the first two ain’t here.  I was talking about who Stendel has from Tuesday.

 

 

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What young players Mikey may get a chance?

3/4 are on loan, Henderson not sure where is Morrison?

Edited by Lfhearts
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2 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:


Guys like Whelan would struggle with a more high tempo game. It has to be said that given Naismith’s fitness problems, a hardcore pressing game could be a struggle for him too. 
 

Fundamentally, we need a completely different squad. So many substandard players, which seemed to be Levein’s speciality in the transfer market. I’m most interested in where we are in 12 months time and I’ll reserve all judgement until then. Stendel’s been dealt a pretty shocking hand.

I don't agree that he has been "dealt a shocking hand". With confidence so low any improvement will be credited to him.

 

We have a a raft of very good players hopefully to return in the New Year. Some of the on-loan youngsters like Smith, Cochrane and McDonald must seize their chance as there are bound to be some players that won't adapt and hopefully we can move on. I hope Stendel has some good contacts to bring in some much harder barstewards than we seem to have, especially in the midfield area but that might have to wait until the summer.

 

Right now I would take a 6th or 7th finish and a cup run as a sign of successful transition.

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13 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

They would, but the first two ain’t here.  I was talking about who Stendel has from Tuesday.

 

 

 

Smith is at Cowdenbeath too.

 

I think just a bit of organisation and motivation will do for the next few games. 

 

5 league games before transfer window.

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kingantti1874

Need new CB, and new forward if naisy is going to be constantly injured, new CM and someone on the left with pace.. also bring back Harry and Anthony, give them a chance.. Harry can press..

 

I won’t list those who I think need to move on, I’ve no doubt Stendel will figure that out soon enough.

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Nelly Terraces
36 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

He's happy to use young guys, as long as there's some experience in the team to hold them when things go wrong.

He really has no choice if he wants to play with more pace as there's virtually none in the current squad as it stands.

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Captain Canada

Firstly, does Stendel exist? I've not seen any comments from him yet. 🤔

 

Secondly, and more seriously, I think we'll probably get a number of players on loan in January and look to loan a few out to balance the books. Possibly from the fringes at Barnsley or clubs in League One. 

 

The team could progress fairly quickly with a bit more energy, aggression and a clear game plan.

 

I think a lot of the squad could adapt in theory,  but I'm not sure Berra is suited to this style at all. He's still brilliant in the air but his pace has gone and he just kicks the ball whichever way he's facing, sometimes even into his own net. 

 

I'm excited to see what happens in the next two months and beyond. 

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Tom Hardy’s Dug

Given the players a bit of stick recently - but I think the over reactions on here whilst fairly typical are OTT.

 

We have a good squad who need both a massive kick up the arse but also a properly structured and organised coach.

 

You can tell DS will lift the at atmosphere with the players, bond them, bring the fans on board, improve the atmosphere in the stadium etc etc.

 

We’ll do better quicker than prople

think - he had an immediate impact at Hannover.

Edited by Tom Hardy’s Dug
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Jambof3tornado
1 minute ago, Captain Canada said:

Firstly, does Stendel exist? I've not seen any comments from him yet. 🤔

 

Secondly, and more seriously, I think we'll probably get a number of players on loan in January and look to loan a few out to balance the books. Possibly from the fringes at Barnsley or clubs in League One. 

 

The team could progress fairly quickly with a bit more energy, aggression and a clear game plan.

 

I think a lot of the squad could adapt in theory,  but I'm not sure Berra is suited to this style at all. He's still brilliant in the air but his pace has gone and he just kicks the ball whichever way he's facing, sometimes even into his own net. 

 

I'm excited to see what happens in the next two months and beyond. 

Why would Barnsley be interested in loaning us players after ****in us over regarding compo?

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Captain Canada
1 minute ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Why would Barnsley be interested in loaning us players after ****in us over regarding compo?

 

If they have unhappy players not getting a game and the chance to get some of their wages paid, I doubt they'll care. They seem to be obsessed with money after all. 

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2 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Interesting post on the original Stengel thread yesterday from Scunny123 that Stengel was at the Gillingham game. If true he could well have been checking out Olly Lee. 

 

Was that not just bollocks though? Thought the guy had been pretty-much outed as a troll...

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2 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Interesting post on the original Stengel thread yesterday from Scunny123 that Stengel was at the Gillingham game. If true he could well have been checking out Olly Lee. 

 

Was that not just bollocks though? Thought the guy had been pretty-much outed as a troll...

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2 hours ago, been here before said:

"The High Press / Geggenpressen"

 

Mind when you just used to pressure teams, get in their faces and play high up the park.

 

Same kind of 'experts' come out with this shite that use phrases like expected goals.

 

Anyway to answer the question, who knows we seldom pressure any teams for any amount of time. We might be shit hot at it as unlikely as it seems.

 

I'm not actually sure fitness in Scotland is high enough to adopt the mantra fully.

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2 hours ago, Baxfee said:

Will be interesting to what he can do with Clare, Mulraney, meshino, Keena, wighton, and Halkett. All young and relatively athletic. His type of player if you go with the summaries in media. 

 

Exactly what I was thinking. Brandon, Irving, Cochrane and MacDonald might find themselves in a better situation too.

That's ten players who could form a nucleus he can build round.

And add Hickey.

 

2 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:


Guys like Whelan would struggle with a more high tempo game. It has to be said that given Naismith’s fitness problems, a hardcore pressing game could be a struggle for him too. 
 

Fundamentally, we need a completely different squad. So many substandard players, which seemed to be Levein’s speciality in the transfer market. I’m most interested in where we are in 12 months time and I’ll reserve all judgement until then. Stendel’s been dealt a pretty shocking hand.

Even if he plays a high press he will still need players like Whelan and Naismith (if fit) to take the ball and create after it's been won.

Edited by upgotheheads
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Just now, boag1874 said:

It’s worth noting we’ve done reasonably well with a couple of outstanding results whenever we’ve played a high press against the OF at tynie. Obviously I expect Stendel to play an even more intense version of the tactic but theres evIdence to show that some of the players might just surprise us here.

This has been my thinking for the last three years. The amount of players who've came and gone in such a short space of time baffles me. They can't all be bad players and i'm going back to the days of Cowie and Kitchen onwards. As I've said over a long period and others have said here, coaching and training has been suspect. Players come in, look very decent then fall away after a couple of months never to regain what they had when they arrived. I think Levein wanted players to play one way and one way only. That will suit some players but won't suit others. I think of Milinkovic. The type of player that shouldn't be shackled and given a free role (within reason) to do what he thought was right, moving around the pitch to where he felt he could create a danger to the opposition, not told to stay within a certain area of the pitch. Olly Lee was said to be home sick by Levein and that's why he went on loan to Gillingham. Lee himself had said he questioned Levein's tactics and for me if you say anything Levein doesn't like, you're out the door. Be interesting to see if he gets back again after his loan and shows what he was capable of and joining in with an attacking style. There are others that fall into this category as well. Interesting times ahead.

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Just now, Wham Bam Austin McCann said:

 

I'm not actually sure fitness in Scotland is high enough to adopt the mantra fully.

Ah, now fitness....there's another thing we seem to have a problem with at the club. Hopefully Stendel will come in, take a look and perhaps question the fitness of the players. Always felt that smaller clubs than us that come to Tynie seem a yard or so quicker and were first to a loose ball more. May be something in that, maybe not but something worth keeping an eye on.

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33 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Smith is at Cowdenbeath too.

 

I think just a bit of organisation and motivation will do for the next few games. 

 

5 league games before transfer window.

Can’t wait mate.  Been a while since we had an attack minded manager in the transfer market.

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I think first and foremost we need to drop the unnecessary terminology and fancy phrases. 

 

Looking through the squad there isn't the legs to play a pressing game week in week out, which is partly why I think this guy will raise a few eyebrows, some of the old guard may find themselves well down the pecking order. 

 

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Took Klopp over two years to get Liverpool where they are now, so wouldn’t be expecting anything overnight with this gang of gutless losers. 

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We have some players who could be athletic - the trick is to get buy-in from a whole squad. You may get the occasional player like Naismith or Kenny Miller in their younger days who will run around like a nutter on their own for the good of the team, but many more are of the style who won't make the runs because they know the pass is not coming...This is the mentality that the new boss needs to overcome.

 

Tynecastle is not a big pitch so there is not a whole lot of room to find space to receive passes and have time, but the flipside is that it is quite easy to press the opposition when they have posssession.

 

We get results at Tynecastle against the OF because we press them higher up the pitch where their defenders are less comfortable on the ball. When you drop deep against the OF then it is only a matter of time before they make the breakthrough or the officials give them the necessary penalty or freekick. For some reason successive Hearts managers have thought time and time again that you can go to Glasgow and sit in...You can't,  unless you are very dangerous on the break. Otherwise, you just give them so much possession that even on a bad day they eventually find a bit of creativity or fluency. 

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1 hour ago, Famous 1874 said:

Vast majority of the squad aren’t suited to a pressing game. That being said, whose who are may not be at the required standard to play for the club, e.g. Mulraney. 

 

Players who I would bin: (just shows how bad a job Murray and Levein have done)

 

Perieria (loan expiry and do not want him back)

Zlamal 

Brandon

Dikamona

Berra 

Aidy White 

Lee

Bozanic 

Mulraney 

Whelan

Damour 

Morrison 

MacLean

Uche 

Keena

Meshino (loan expiry but would want back)

 

Question marks:

Clare - can he finally become good under an attacking manager 

Wighton - will he get a consistent run in the team or will he be loaned out for the rest of his Hearts career before leaving on a free 

Naismith - is his body completely finished, I think so

Irving - promising young player but I can’t see him having the legs and pace to play at a high pressing game, needs to work on that 

Peter Haring - think he is quality but will he ever play for us again?

 

You would bin Brandon? Where have you been for the last 3 weeks?

Keena has hardly been given a sniff of a chance and has looked pretty lively to me whenever he has. Mulraney is inconsistent but has been ability if he can be used properly. Uche is still our most reliable forward and Meshino still has potential.

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1 hour ago, Famous 1874 said:

Vast majority of the squad aren’t suited to a pressing game. That being said, whose who are may not be at the required standard to play for the club, e.g. Mulraney. 

 

Players who I would bin: (just shows how bad a job Murray and Levein have done)

 

Perieria (loan expiry and do not want him back)

Zlamal 

Brandon

Dikamona

Berra 

Aidy White 

Lee

Bozanic 

Mulraney 

Whelan

Damour 

Morrison 

MacLean

Uche 

Keena

Meshino (loan expiry but would want back)

 

Question marks:

Clare - can he finally become good under an attacking manager 

Wighton - will he get a consistent run in the team or will he be loaned out for the rest of his Hearts career before leaving on a free 

Naismith - is his body completely finished, I think so

Irving - promising young player but I can’t see him having the legs and pace to play at a high pressing game, needs to work on that 

Peter Haring - think he is quality but will he ever play for us again?

That's too radical a clear out and a very expensive one at that. Berra needs a rest and see if he can regain some form. The others in bold could still do a turn. Damour has a long contract so we ain't binning him.

Edited by tcjambo
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                                 Pereira

Smith            Souttar        Halkett          Hickey

 

                                Haring

Morrison                                               Mulraney

                 
                           Walker   Naismith 

 

                               Washington

 

*this seems like to ideal team to me to suit the high press idea but whether we’ll ever see them all fit at the same time...

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Tom Hardy’s Dug

By the way - a high press game doesn’t involve 11 footballers including the goalie  running around constantly like idiots a 100 miles an hour for 95 mins.

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5 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

By the way - a high press game doesn’t involve 11 footballers including the goalie  running around constantly like idiots a 100 miles an hour for 95 mins.

This. It's as much about positioning off the ball as it is about running.

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Absolute Scenes

I cannot wait for the training session when he sees who needs to go, lines them up in the corridor screaming “NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN!!!!!”

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