Nicola Sturgeon

[Trapper John McIntyre]

1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

From the guy who reads Effie Deans  

 

Incredible. 

By then it'll be the Chinese or Russian begging bowl you'll be holding out.

 

What's the matter with Effie? (This from the man /boy who quotes The National)

[Space Mackerel]

Just now, Trapper John McIntyre said:

By then it'll be the Chinese or Russian begging bowl you'll be holding out.

 

What's the matter with Effie? (This from the man /boy who quotes The National)

Effie Deans though, what’s her circulation, Agent P, Steve Sayers, History Bampot and you?  

[Spitonastranger]

2 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I don't work it out per week as I buy in bulk when their promotions are on. I save myself a few hundred pounds per season from March to November.

Believe me, people from border towns like Duns and Eyemouth cross the border for their booze when the 25% off 6 bottles promotion is on.

They are trying to target the jakes with their minimum pricing but they will get booze no matter the price.

It's the responsible drinkers who are paying the price.

Surely you don't agree with all the SNP policies just because you're a Nationalist?

It's a health issue nota tax issue, but you knew that.

[Trapper John McIntyre]

10 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Effie Deans though, what’s her circulation, Agent P, Steve Sayers, History Bampot and you?  

 

Mmm. I must look those three up.

[Nucky Thompson]

7 minutes ago, Spitonastranger said:

It's a health issue nota tax issue, but you knew that.

It's a tax issue disguised as a health issue. It doesn't have an effect on the people it's meant to, but the SNP knew that

[Space Mackerel]

Just now, Trapper John McIntyre said:

 

Mmm. I must look those three up.

Let’s not kid on now. That wee Unionist bubble is a laugh a minute. Utterly bonkers. 

[Space Mackerel]

4 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It's a tax issue disguised as a health issue. It doesn't have an effect on the people it's meant to, but the SNP knew that

Ermmmmmm, alcohol duties are collected by Westminster. 
 

So why would the SNP put them up again? 
 

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Space Mackerel

[Justin Z]

10 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It's a tax issue disguised as a health issue. It doesn't have an effect on the people it's meant to, but the SNP knew that

 

Not a tax at all though, is it, since that form of tax is not devolved.

 

For what it's worth I think it's bad public policy and the results show that.

[Space Mackerel]

6 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Not a tax at all though, is it, since that form of tax is not devolved.

 

For what it's worth I think it's bad public policy and the results show that.

A bit early to say but:

 

Alcohol death rates dropping in Scotland https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-50645476
 

 

[Nucky Thompson]

9 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Ermmmmmm, alcohol duties are collected by Westminster. 
 

So why would the SNP put them up again? 
 

 

This is true but the Scottish government are committed to securing devolution of the revenues from excise duties from alcohol.

They see it as only a matter of time

[Space Mackerel]

7 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

This is true but the Scottish government are committed to securing devolution of the revenues from excise duties from alcohol.

They see it as only a matter of time

Ahhhhh, it’s a conspiracy now. A future one at that. 
 

 

[Spitonastranger]

26 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It's a tax issue disguised as a health issue. It doesn't have an effect on the people it's meant to, but the SNP knew that

It's actually helped and was pushed by doctors and health specialist but you knew that 

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, Spitonastranger said:

It's actually helped and was pushed by doctors and health specialist but you knew that 

No, no, no no. All the taxes go to Holyrood now but only in the future, at some point.

 

Utterly  amazing the Unionists on here who haven’t the slightest clue what’s going on. It’s actually quite frightening. 

 

[Nucky Thompson]

13 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Ahhhhh, it’s a conspiracy now. A future one at that. 
 

 

How bad would it look if they introduced minimum pricing once they got devolution of duties? 

Introduce it now as a health issue and keep the masses sweet

[Nucky Thompson]

23 minutes ago, Spitonastranger said:

It's actually helped and was pushed by doctors and health specialist but you knew that 

Do you think even 1% of alcoholics have stopped drinking because they have introduced minimum pricing.

Scotland are the first country in the World to do this, it might take 30 years to be sure if it has made any impact on health

[Space Mackerel]

4 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

How bad would it look if they introduced minimum pricing once they got devolution of duties? 

Introduce it now as a health issue and keep the masses sweet

Erm, they’ve already introduced it. Thought we had covered that?

 

You see, you were under the impression that the TAX that you pay is collected by The Scottish Government, it’s not, it goes straight to London and they divvy it up. Some here some there, some to give high earners a break, trickle down economics, some to nuclear weapons we will never use,  some to have Buck House upgraded from super mansion to uber mansion. 

 

So, in an independent Scotland, WE get the money you spend on TAX and we get to spend it on the things our 5.5 million people decide, voted by us. 
 

It’s quite simple. 

[Spitonastranger]

1 minute ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Do you think even 1% of alcoholics have stopped drinking because they have introduced minimum pricing.

Scotland are the first country in the World to do this, it might take 30 years to be sure if it has made any impact on health

People have started to cut back and drink less, which is a good thing, pull your head out and don't pick on something that is good for peoples health. Scotland also stopped smoking in public places what's your difficulty with that . Meanwhile the Toriees continue to kill our most vulnerable people in society, but your worried about a couple of Penny's onto the cost of your Kestrel lager.

[SwindonJambo]

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

A bit early to say but:

 

Alcohol death rates dropping in Scotland https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-50645476
 

 

 

A step in the right direction but at the same time, deaths from recreational drug abuse have risen astronomically and are now the very worst in Europe. That sorely needs to be addressed.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48938509

[Space Mackerel]

15 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Do you think even 1% of alcoholics have stopped drinking because they have introduced minimum pricing.

Scotland are the first country in the World to do this, it might take 30 years to be sure if it has made any impact on health

Have you actually seen the figure per head of population who drink excessively in the Northern hemisphere, places like Scotland, Alaska, Canada, Sweden, Norway, Russia? You can actually chuck suicides into that too. 

 

People drink excessively, probably to do with Earths axis in relation to the Sun 6 months of the year. You’re quite happy for this to continue? 
 

Try and go to Canada a see if you can get a carry out, you’ll be mighty  surprised at the liquor stores opening hours. 
 

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

A step in the right direction but at the same time, deaths from recreational drug abuse have risen astronomically and are now the very worst in Europe. That sorely needs to be addressed.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48938509

I believe these deaths are related to existing hard drug users from the 80’s etc.and funnily enough, which never seems to make it into the Scottish MSM 🙄 so in England. Funny that.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/aug/15/drug-poisoning-deaths-in-england-and-wales-at-highest-level-ever-recorded

 

 

[ri Alban]

6 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I use the A1 most weekends going to my caravan at Haggerston,using that and the nightmare that is Sheriffhall roundabout.

I don't want to use my passport crossing the border every week either.

It's bad enough that we have to buy our booze down there because of her alcohol tax up here

You better see someone about your drink problem. 

[doctor jambo]

10 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

A step in the right direction but at the same time, deaths from recreational drug abuse have risen astronomically and are now the very worst in Europe. That sorely needs to be addressed.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48938509

I worked in addictions and this was always going to happen.

We became good at keeping addicts alive.

Instead of a really premature death in their 20's they are now older and their bodies entirely destroyed by decades of poor diet/lifestyle/drug use and whilst they are in their 30's and 40's , biologically they are much, much older than that.

[Don Dan]

Sturgeon admitted in her speech this morning that the majority of Scots don’t want independence and they will have to win them round. Sneaked that wee revelation in amongst the other percentage figures she was using to try and support her cause. 

[Ron Burgundy]

53 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

Sturgeon admitted in her speech this morning that the majority of Scots don’t want independence and they will have to win them round. Sneaked that wee revelation in amongst the other percentage figures she was using to try and support her cause. 

Well some  policies would be a start.

[hughesie27]

59 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

Sturgeon admitted in her speech this morning that the majority of Scots don’t want independence and they will have to win them round. Sneaked that wee revelation in amongst the other percentage figures she was using to try and support her cause. 

Sneaked it in? To what end?

[Don Dan]

3 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Well some  policies would be a start.

So far lots of sound bite rhetoric from the SNP.
For me to change my mind I’d need to see things like an independent Scotland would automatically be admitted into the EU the minute we left the United Kingdom also we would adopt the Euro. Also there would be a suitable trade deal with the remaining UK nations that’s acceptable to the EU. Just for starters. 

[Don Dan]

2 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Sneaked it in? To what end?

To hide the truth that the majority of Scots still don’t want independence. It detracts from the SNP Scotland wants independence mantra. 

[Spitonastranger]

This is what the tories really think and the lickspittle populace of Scotland are thankful

[eyb8vb]

✨Hello, HMFC Kickback Group-

I hope this message finds you well! My name is Emilia Belknap, MA and I am a Political Researcher at the University of Edinburgh. I am currently working on my doctoral research about Scottish Voting behaviour and perspectives on Scottish Independence.

 

I am looking for a variety of participants that are

eligible to vote in Scotland to take this 5-10 minute survey which asks about your voting history and perspectives on Scottish Independence. Your responses are anonymised and only seen by one analyst, me!

 

SURVEY LINK: https://edinburgh.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/svbsurvey_belknap

(If this type of post isn't allowed, I apologise in advance and am happy to remove 😀).

[email protected]

[Don Dan]

2 hours ago, eyb8vb said:

✨Hello, HMFC Kickback Group-

I hope this message finds you well! My name is Emilia Belknap, MA and I am a Political Researcher at the University of Edinburgh. I am currently working on my doctoral research about Scottish Voting behaviour and perspectives on Scottish Independence.

 

I am looking for a variety of participants that are

eligible to vote in Scotland to take this 5-10 minute survey which asks about your voting history and perspectives on Scottish Independence. Your responses are anonymised and only seen by one analyst, me!

 

SURVEY LINK: https://edinburgh.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/svbsurvey_belknap

(If this type of post isn't allowed, I apologise in advance and am happy to remove 😀).

[email protected]

Survey Done. 

[Space Mackerel]

5 hours ago, Dannie Boy said:

So far lots of sound bite rhetoric from the SNP.
For me to change my mind I’d need to see things like an independent Scotland would automatically be admitted into the EU the minute we left the United Kingdom also we would adopt the Euro. Also there would be a suitable trade deal with the remaining UK nations that’s acceptable to the EU. Just for starters. 

 

 

https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/747849827749232641?s=20

[Space Mackerel]

5 hours ago, Dannie Boy said:

So far lots of sound bite rhetoric from the SNP.
For me to change my mind I’d need to see things like an independent Scotland would automatically be admitted into the EU the minute we left the United Kingdom also we would adopt the Euro. Also there would be a suitable trade deal with the remaining UK nations that’s acceptable to the EU. Just for starters. 

 

https://twitter.com/IndyTom3/status/1207241292142518273?s=20

[Don Dan]

16 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

 

https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/747849827749232641?s=20

 

15 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

https://twitter.com/IndyTom3/status/1207241292142518273?s=20

So not automatically in or one day in the UK the next day in the EU then when and if we ever leave the UK. 
Come back to when the EU announces that and an independent Scotland will be in the EU the day it leaves the UK and only then. Otherwise don’t post to me again. Thanks👍

[Boab]

6 hours ago, Spitonastranger said:

This is what the tories really think and the lickspittle populace of Scotland are thankful

Would it be unchristmasy to wish ill on all of them ?

 

[Space Mackerel]

2 hours ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

So not automatically in or one day in the UK the next day in the EU then when and if we ever leave the UK. 
Come back to when the EU announces that and an independent Scotland will be in the EU the day it leaves the UK and only then. Otherwise don’t post to me again. Thanks👍

 

Are you for real? Out the UK one day and in the EU the next? You think the EU are going to say the moment the Exit poll is announced it's a goer?

 

I think you're showing a massive lack of understanding.

 

See this Brexit Transition phase, whats all that about?

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Are you for real? Out the UK one day and in the EU the next? You think the EU are going to say the moment the Exit poll is announced it's a goer?

 

I think you're showing a massive lack of understanding.

 

See this Brexit Transition phase, whats all that about?

 

That is about gracefully leaving the EU without impacting business.  An independent Scotland wouldn't be in the EU so that doesn't apply.

 

So, back to my argument yesterday is that you accepting that WTO rules are a possibility here?

[Space Mackerel]

4 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

That is about gracefully leaving the EU without impacting business.  An independent Scotland wouldn't be in the EU so that doesn't apply.

 

So, back to my argument yesterday is that you accepting that WTO rules are a possibility here?

No. 

 

Scotland when it becomes INDEPENDENT will not trade under WTO because it won’t. 
 

Guy V  from Belgium, the FORMER PM of Belgium, who leads the EU trade talks on Brexit has said so. 
 

He said it was a piece of cake. 

 

 

[Space Mackerel]

And given the VAST MAJORITY who voted Remain in Scotland (67%) Im pretty sure that OUR ELECTED representatives will carry out that wish and it will be a smooth transition back into the EU.

Why? Because BOTH SIDES want it.  

[Harry Potter]

4 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

And given the VAST MAJORITY who voted Remain in Scotland (67%) Im pretty sure that OUR ELECTED representatives will carry out that wish and it will be a smooth transition back into the EU.

Why? Because BOTH SIDES want it.  

Bet the fisherman cant wait with all the stupid rules like throwing dead fish back in to the sea.

[frankblack]

8 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

No. 

 

Scotland when it becomes INDEPENDENT will not trade under WTO because it won’t. 
 

Guy V  from Belgium, the FORMER PM of Belgium, who leads the EU trade talks on Brexit has said so. 
 

He said it was a piece of cake. 

 

 

 

Hyperbole and guesswork.

 

I'm sure some former PM will help your cause right enough should you be allowed a referendum in the distant future.  It's amazing how complimentary people can be when you speak to them at an all expense paid jolly.

[frankblack]

7 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Just accept democracy. 

 

 

 

It seems the Nats are only willing to do that if the result falls their way, and once it does stop the opposition from having a chance to overturn it.

 

Thats not democracy as I know it.

Edited December 20, 2019 by frankblack

[Justin Z]

Just now, frankblack said:

 

It seems the Nats are only willing to do that if the result falls their way.

 

"The populace has spoken once, longer ago than we usually hold general elections, and numerous material changes have occurred including their democratic will being wilfully ignored, therefore democracy dictates they should remain silent".

 

Definitely checks out.

[frankblack]

Just now, Justin Z said:

 

"The populace has spoken once, longer ago than we usually hold general elections, and numerous material changes have occurred including their democratic will being wilfully ignored, therefore democracy dictates they should remain silent".

 

Definitely checks out.

 

Checks out what?

[Ray Gin]

22 hours ago, Spitonastranger said:

This is what the tories really think and the lickspittle populace of Scotland are thankful

 

And this...

 

 

 

 

[Spitonastranger]

14 hours ago, Boab said:

Would it be unchristmasy to wish ill on all of them ?

 

I don't wish ill on anyone but this lot and their voters i have to fight the urge to agree with you 

[Justin Z]

Just now, frankblack said:

 

Checks out what?

 

Sorry, I speed-quoted you before you got your edit in. "Checks out" as in "proves to be correct". It was sarcasm.

 

And well, your edit is basically still saying the same thing. Because it was a result you liked, you don't want further democratic action done to it, and you will turn in knots to assert that your position that less democracy should act on it, is democratic.

 

As I said to @Harry Potter either in this thread or another one, continuing to go to the people through referendums--as pure of democracy as you can get--is democracy. I mean, that's a tautology, it's so self-evident. To claim otherwise isn't really being honest about it. In the same way if you don't like the result of a general election it is built into the system that you get to have a say on it again, well, so would another referendum be following that pattern and there's nothing undemocratic about that at all.

 

In my view, the problem is the entire constitutional system, where a 50%+1 referendum can make such a massive constitutional change to the country, be it independence or brexit or whatever else. This happens to be an argument for independence and a new form of government where that's not possible, but that's by accident. Personally, I think too much democracy is bad and can lead to the tyranny of the majority but that is how this system is prone to malfunctioning and that is not "the Nats' " fault.

[Boab]

Just now, Spitonastranger said:

I don't wish ill on anyone but this lot and their voters i have to fight the urge to agree with you 

I hear you, mate, but these ****s intentionally vote for policies that do harm to a lot of people. Keeping the Christmas theme going...what’s good for the goose...!

[Spitonastranger]

3 minutes ago, Boab said:

I hear you, mate, but these ****s intentionally vote for policies that do harm to a lot of people. Keeping the Christmas theme going...what’s good for the goose...!

exactly, have a good one yourself

[Boab]

Just now, Spitonastranger said:

exactly, have a good one yourself

And you.

 

[frankblack]

18 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Sorry, I speed-quoted you before you got your edit in. "Checks out" as in "proves to be correct". It was sarcasm.

 

And well, your edit is basically still saying the same thing. Because it was a result you liked, you don't want further democratic action done to it, and you will turn in knots to assert that your position that less democracy should act on it, is democratic.

 

As I said to @Harry Potter either in this thread or another one, continuing to go to the people through referendums--as pure of democracy as you can get--is democracy. I mean, that's a tautology, it's so self-evident. To claim otherwise isn't really being honest about it. In the same way if you don't like the result of a general election it is built into the system that you get to have a say on it again, well, so would another referendum be following that pattern and there's nothing undemocratic about that at all.

 

In my view, the problem is the entire constitutional system, where a 50%+1 referendum can make such a massive constitutional change to the country, be it independence or brexit or whatever else. This happens to be an argument for independence and a new form of government where that's not possible, but that's by accident. Personally, I think too much democracy is bad and can lead to the tyranny of the majority but that is how this system is prone to malfunctioning and that is not "the Nats' " fault.

 

Some good points but the basic argument at the moment they failed to get more than 50% last week and that was when other issues were in play such as opposition to Brexit.

 

It is destabilizing for the country to have one party continually wanting referendums every 5 years until they get the result in their favour.

 

For what it's worth I doubt either the Tories or Labour are going to allow another until Brexit is long past.   Giving the SNP a referendum at a time of changes under Brexit is a free hit so won't happen.