Nicola Sturgeon

[Justin Z]

14 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Some good points but the basic argument at the moment they failed to get more than 50% last week and that was when other issues were in play such as opposition to Brexit.

 

Even in a country where 16-17 year olds and EU citizens don't need to be added to this to paint a more accurate picture, I don't see how a single party failing to get 50% of the total vote matters, especially when next door you have politicians crowing about a mandate for proceeding to take the union out of Europe when they got an even lower total percentage of the vote across said union. Additionally, independence support was at 30%, as I understand it, in 2013.

 

16 minutes ago, frankblack said:

It is destabilizing for the country to have one party continually wanting referendums every 5 years until they get the result in their favour.

 

That is certainly an assertion and not necessarily an unreasonable one, but it's not an argument. It's also rather slanted, and ignores the current reality that, again, not only did the people of Scotland overwhelmingly vote against Brexit, and not only did two of the four countries in the UK vote against Brexit, Westminster has shown nothing but contempt for the Scottish Parliament's sovereignty on the issue of Brexit and devolved matters which touch the EU. That is the opposite of how it said it would behave if the Scottish people voted No in the first referendum.

 

You can debate the finer points of all that, but in other words, it's far from just simply "one party continually wanting referendums" and framing it that way is disingenuous.

 

18 minutes ago, frankblack said:

For what it's worth I doubt either the Tories or Labour are going to allow another until Brexit is long past.   Giving the SNP a referendum at a time of changes under Brexit is a free hit so won't happen.

 

Think you're absolutely right, and it will be interesting for political wonks to see how the politics surrounding this conflict develop.

[Harry Potter]

1 hour ago, Justin Z said:

 

Sorry, I speed-quoted you before you got your edit in. "Checks out" as in "proves to be correct". It was sarcasm.

 

And well, your edit is basically still saying the same thing. Because it was a result you liked, you don't want further democratic action done to it, and you will turn in knots to assert that your position that less democracy should act on it, is democratic.

 

As I said to @Harry Potter either in this thread or another one, continuing to go to the people through referendums--as pure of democracy as you can get--is democracy. I mean, that's a tautology, it's so self-evident. To claim otherwise isn't really being honest about it. In the same way if you don't like the result of a general election it is built into the system that you get to have a say on it again, well, so would another referendum be following that pattern and there's nothing undemocratic about that at all.

 

In my view, the problem is the entire constitutional system, where a 50%+1 referendum can make such a massive constitutional change to the country, be it independence or brexit or whatever else. This happens to be an argument for independence and a new form of government where that's not possible, but that's by accident. Personally, I think too much democracy is bad and can lead to the tyranny of the majority but that is how this system is prone to malfunctioning and that is not "the Nats' " fault.

TBF Justin i would maybe vote yes if there was proof of our capability to run our own country, and know what

currency we would have, our pension protection private and government.

[Justin Z]

Just now, Harry Potter said:

TBF Justin i would maybe vote yes if there was proof of our capability to run our own country, and know what

currency we would have, our pension protection private and government.

 

Yep--there are things that independence advocates need to make supremely clear this time around--and be sure won't be twisted by the unionist media narrative.

 

Absolutely vital.

[coconut doug]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

It seems the Nats are only willing to do that if the result falls their way, and once it does stop the opposition from having a chance to overturn it.

 

Thats not democracy as I know it.

 

No i think that's what you and your mates are advocating e.g. Indyrey2

[Nucky Thompson]

2 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

 

And this...

 

 

 

 

I know how BJ feels. I put the fat Hibs twat on mute when he talks on TV 

[frankblack]

52 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Yep--there are things that independence advocates need to make supremely clear this time around--and be sure won't be twisted by the unionist media narrative.

 

Absolutely vital.

 

TBH That is what I have been arguing for.  The politics at the moment from the SNP is all finger pointing at other parties to avoid these questions.

[Boof]

2 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Hyperbole and guesswork.

 

 

O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, Boof said:

 

O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!

 

Early start at the work xmas do? 🤔

[Space Mackerel]

 

Only so much unadulterated uneducated  pish and shite you can read and respond to. 

[Pans Jambo]

On 19/12/2019 at 14:04, eyb8vb said:

✨Hello, HMFC Kickback Group-

I hope this message finds you well! My name is Emilia Belknap, MA and I am a Political Researcher at the University of Edinburgh. I am currently working on my doctoral research about Scottish Voting behaviour and perspectives on Scottish Independence.

 

I am looking for a variety of participants that are

eligible to vote in Scotland to take this 5-10 minute survey which asks about your voting history and perspectives on Scottish Independence. Your responses are anonymised and only seen by one analyst, me!

 

SURVEY LINK: https://edinburgh.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/svbsurvey_belknap

(If this type of post isn't allowed, I apologise in advance and am happy to remove 😀).

[email protected]

Done

[manaliveits105]

You realise that the SNP Brigadoon brigade will swamp your survey in an attempt to give the impression independence is popular whereas 55% of eligible voters - the silent majority are against

You have plenty time to work on your thesis though as there will be no independence referendum for many years - if ever 

[JAYEL]

4 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

You realise that the SNP Brigadoon brigade will swamp your survey in an attempt to give the impression independence is popular whereas 55% of eligible voters - the silent majority are against

You have plenty time to work on your thesis though as there will be no independence referendum for many years - if ever 

The 55% is long gone

 

A lot has happened in 6 years

 

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[Roxy Hearts]

6 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

SNP Brigadoon brigade, is quite amusing

The level of intelligence..... 

[jack D and coke]

The brigadoon shite has went far enough  
Im gonna have to start a Stone Island or Moncler indy movement...