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CostaJambo

Scotland Call Offs (NHC)

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CostaJambo

Kind of feel sorry for Clarke. Considering tonight was basically a dead rubber it could have been a great opportunity for him to play his strongest play-off line-up as a training exercise and iron out any issues given that we don't play again till March. If we end up failing miserably in the play-offs then I don't think he has all the blame to shoulder. Club position and maximising income is more worthwhile than national caps to a lot pf players these days. 

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ToqueJambo
2 minutes ago, CostaJambo said:

Kind of feel sorry for Clarke. Considering tonight was basically a dead rubber it could have been a great opportunity for him to play his strongest play-off line-up as a training exercise and iron out any issues given that we don't play again till March. If we end up failing miserably in the play-offs then I don't think he has all the blame to shoulder. Club position and maximising income is more worthwhile than national caps to a lot pf players these days. 

 

Either way it does prove again that missing your best players makes it much harder to play well and win games (for the benefit of our own fans who think our injuries shouldn't have affected us so much). Craig brown said in an interview that Scotland traditionally doesn't enforce the 5-day no playing rule if someone calls off and he has no idea why as that would stop most of them.

 

I'm guessing that's the SFA bowing to OF pressure yet again?

Edited by ToqueJambo

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Barack

Wouldn't let Tierney near the team again. He's one of the main shit-houses.

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Mikey1874

Who really would make that team that much better? 

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part_time_jambo
3 minutes ago, CostaJambo said:

Kind of feel sorry for Clarke. Considering tonight was basically a dead rubber it could have been a great opportunity for him to play his strongest play-off line-up as a training exercise and iron out any issues given that we don't play again till March. If we end up failing miserably in the play-offs then I don't think he has all the blame to shoulder. Club position and maximising income is more worthwhile than national caps to a lot pf players these days. 

Clarke has a responsibility to do whatever he can to field the strongest team. That includes preventing players playing for there clubs a few days after calling off with "injury". If he grows a set and starts invoking the rule, there would be less call offs.

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Bridge of Djoum
2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Who really would make that team that much better? 

Souttar, possibly Halkett. Robertson, Tierney.

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Bridge of Djoum
3 minutes ago, Barack said:

Wouldn't let Tierney near the team again. He's one of the main shit-houses.

One of those who appears to be gutted he's not Irish. Far too Celtic minded. 

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sac

The OF used to pull players out with fake injuries all the time a few years back, club football more important now.

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VALDOS'
3 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Either way it does prove again that missing your best players makes it much harder to play well and win games (for the benefit of our own fans who think our injuries shouldn't have affected us so much). Craig brown said in an interview that Scotland traditionally doesn't enforce the 5-day no playing rule if someone calls off and he has no idea why as that would stop most of them.

 

I'm guessing that's the SFA bowing to OF pressure yet again?

What with 4 of Scotlands Midfield/forward players coming from the arse cheeks? All the while asking Arsenal ever so politely if young Tierney could possibly make the trip north. 

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ToqueJambo
Just now, Mikey1874 said:

Who really would make that team that much better? 

 

Robertson and Tierney or Hickey for Taylor and Palmer, Fraser for Forrest or McGregor and McTominay for Jack for a start. Also, not call-offs but Halkett and Souttar for McKenna and Gallacher. In fact, anyone for McKenna. Plus Calum Paterson on the bench at least. I'm also not sure if Leigh Griffiths is still around but him for any of the reserve strikers. Still slim pickings mind you.

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The White Cockade

Andy Robertson is our best player but Taylor played well tonight

and don't think his absence made much difference

Losing McGinn or Naismith would be the only ones that would be badly missed

but the pair of them always make themselves available barring injury

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VALDOS'
6 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Who really would make that team that much better? 

I think that's pretty much the team that will play in the play offs, plus Tierney shoe horned in with Robertson if Arsenal allow it. 

Edited by VALDOS'

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kingantti1874
7 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Who really would make that team that much better? 


Paterson

Souttar

Halkett

Tierney

Robertson

Mctominay

Fraser

Griffiths.

 

id also start Armstrong when playing regularly

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ToqueJambo
6 minutes ago, Barack said:

Wouldn't let Tierney near the team again. He's one of the main shit-houses.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Tierney was conditioned by Celtic coaches from quite an early age to believe he's the best Scottish LB and could be one of the greats. And he was looking like it to be fair. Then Robertson comes along and becomes first choice LB and Scotland captain and wins the CL. I don't know if he fancies being back-up or being shunted around other positions where he's not as comfortable. He'd better watch though as Hickey could take over his No. 2 spot given he's more two-footed than Tierney so could maybe slot into RB if needed a bit more comfortably.

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Sexton Hardcastle
14 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:


Paterson

Souttar

Halkett

Tierney

Robertson

Mctominay

Fraser

Griffiths.

 

id also start Armstrong when playing regularly

Patterson doesn’t even start for a poor Cardiff side these days.

 

 

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CostaJambo
18 minutes ago, The White Cockade said:

Andy Robertson is our best player but Taylor played well tonight

and don't think his absence made much difference

Losing McGinn or Naismith would be the only ones that would be badly missed

but the pair of them always make themselves available barring injury

I'm not talking about tonight's result mate, it is highly unlikely that Clarke will play Taylor ahead of Robertson in the play-offs if both are fit. I am talking about having your best players available for the preparatory matches rather than just the ones that matter given how little time he gets with a complete squad. It is all about money these days but it is still disappointing how little international honours compare with league position and contract negotiations.

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milky_26
Just now, CostaJambo said:

I'm not talking about tonight's result mate, it is highly unlikely that Clarke will play Taylor ahead of Robertson in the play-offs if both are fit. I am talking about having your best players available for the preparatory matches rather than just the ones that matter given how little time he gets with a complete squad. It is all about money these days but it is still disappointing how little international honours compare with league position and contract negotiations.

that was the good thing about alex ferguson, if any of his players had been called up he would make sure they went unless they were actually injured

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Hungry hippo

I think only Robertson and McTominay will be pencilled in for the playoffs from those who missed tonight.

 

A long time to go though so form and injuries likely to result in other changes for March.

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CostaJambo
3 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said:

I think only Robertson and McTominay will be pencilled in for the playoffs from those who missed tonight.

 

A long time to go though so form and injuries likely to result in other changes for March.

Would also play Ryan Fraser before Forrest but maybe that's my anti-Celtic bias showing though.

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Gashauskis9

Clarke’s doing fine.  Makings of a good attacking system where Naismith and McGinn are pivotal.  Would love to see us live up in March like this

 

Marshall

 

Palmer

Souttar 🤞🏻

Halkett

Robertson
 

McGregor

Ross/McTominay

 

Fraser/Forrest

McGinn

Christie

 

Naismith 

 

 

 

 

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Hungry hippo
11 minutes ago, CostaJambo said:

Would also play Ryan Fraser before Forrest but maybe that's my anti-Celtic bias showing though.

 

Wouldn't disagree in general about Fraser being the better player although I expect Clarke will rightly be looking to reward those who have turned up and got him much needed victories. 

 

If Fraser was on his form of last season I'd predict him to bounce back in but he hasn't been great so far this season. Four months for that to change and confidence is key with wide players so Impossible to predict at this stage.

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Doc Rob

I think Steve Clarke is quietly doing a good job, TBH. We were a total mess when he took charge, but in the last few games we have posted solid, if unspectacular, wins, with a team hampered by call-offs. It reminds me faintly of the first few games we played in the Euro ‘92 qualifiers, when we were so patched up that Robbo finally got the call, and we were fielding Tommy Boyd (then of Motherwell) and Robert Connor. Home wins v Romania and Switzerland (the latter was my first Scotland game).

 

We’ve been punching below our weight for a while - this would be a really good time to recover.

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Rudy T
12 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said:

 

Wouldn't disagree in general about Fraser being the better player although I expect Clarke will rightly be looking to reward those who have turned up and got him much needed victories. 

 

If Fraser was on his form of last season I'd predict him to bounce back in but he hasn't been great so far this season. Four months for that to change and confidence is key with wide players so Impossible to predict at this stage.

 

Rumoured to be on Arsenal’s radar for January so he’ll be sitting with Tierney in London!

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Mr Elwood P
1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Either way it does prove again that missing your best players makes it much harder to play well and win games (for the benefit of our own fans who think our injuries shouldn't have affected us so much). Craig brown said in an interview that Scotland traditionally doesn't enforce the 5-day no playing rule if someone calls off and he has no idea why as that would stop most of them.

 

I'm guessing that's the SFA bowing to OF pressure yet again?


How does it prove that? We’ve just won two games back to back without Tierney, Fraser, Robertson or McTominay...

Edited by Mr Elwood P

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JimKongUno
7 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:


How does it prove that? We’ve just won two games back to back without Tierney, Fraser, Robertson or McTominay...

 

The lot of them can get to feck. Robertson looks like ****ing Maldini for Liverpool but turns in half arsed shite for Scotland when he can be arsed to play. Bunch of shitebags

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Uncle Buck

Robertson for Taylor, Souttar for Gallagher and probably Fraser in for one of the wingers. Other than that I reckon it’s our best team.

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Uncle Buck
Just now, Uncle Buck said:

Robertson for Taylor, Souttar for Gallagher and probably Fraser in for one of the wingers. Other than that I reckon it’s our best team.


Maybe McTominay for Jack too.

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Doc Rob
1 hour ago, JimKongUno said:

 

The lot of them can get to feck. Robertson looks like ****ing Maldini for Liverpool but turns in half arsed shite for Scotland when he can be arsed to play. Bunch of shitebags

 

Scotland's footballing history is littered with players who couldn't recreate their club form internationally. Hansen, McStay, Jess...

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Locky

Robertson is another one who loves a withdrawal. 

 

Me and my workmate were talking the other day about the caps and goals records. It's a joke that these records haven't been close to being broken. Dalglish holds both (goals shared with Denis Law) yet hasn't been capped since 1986!

 

33 year old Steven Naismith is our most capped player with 51. Took him til that age just to get halfway there. Looking at most countries around us, even lesser nations, they all probably have a player who's close to 100 caps. And no one is close to Dalglish's 30 goals, albeit I think Elephant Man McGinn could get there. What probably makes Dalglish's long standing records all the more ridiculous, is -correct me if I'm wrong- there's far more international football played nowadays than there was back in his day. Easily around 10 internationals per calendar year, and if you're a side who gets tournaments (which admittedly doesn't help Scotland) then you'll play at least another 5.

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Herbert
43 minutes ago, Locky said:

Robertson is another one who loves a withdrawal. 

 

Me and my workmate were talking the other day about the caps and goals records. It's a joke that these records haven't been close to being broken. Dalglish holds both (goals shared with Denis Law) yet hasn't been capped since 1986!

 

33 year old Steven Naismith is our most capped player with 51. Took him til that age just to get halfway there. Looking at most countries around us, even lesser nations, they all probably have a player who's close to 100 caps. And no one is close to Dalglish's 30 goals, albeit I think Elephant Man McGinn could get there. What probably makes Dalglish's long standing records all the more ridiculous, is -correct me if I'm wrong- there's far more international football played nowadays than there was back in his day. Easily around 10 internationals per calendar year, and if you're a side who gets tournaments (which admittedly doesn't help Scotland) then you'll play at least another 5.

 

 

Players back then probably got capped before they turned 20. Scotland seem to wait until someone is 25+ to cap them. Looking at the ages of the players called into the squad for this meaningless game only 8 are 25 and under.you see national teams giving 16-17yos a run out, we wait until it's far too late.

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ri Alban

One telling quote from SC. "The boys in the dressing room are committed to Scotland" 

Only Andy Robertson may have a pass. The others might be out in the cold for a wee while.

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Locky
1 hour ago, Herbert said:

 

 

Players back then probably got capped before they turned 20. Scotland seem to wait until someone is 25+ to cap them. Looking at the ages of the players called into the squad for this meaningless game only 8 are 25 and under.you see national teams giving 16-17yos a run out, we wait until it's far too late.

Well, this is something else I've spoke about recently. Look at Hickey, played in a Scottish Cup final at 16. Still only 17 and a first team regular for one of the biggest clubs in the country, and apparently on the radar of Man City, one of the best teams in the world.

 

What possible harm could it do to call him up for one of these meaningless games, and get him the experience. Instead we leave him in the under 19's playing against people his own age. It's a waste of time him going on international duty.

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jack D and coke
10 hours ago, Hungry hippo said:

I think only Robertson and McTominay will be pencilled in for the playoffs from those who missed tonight.

 

A long time to go though so form and injuries likely to result in other changes for March.

McTominay should not come in for anyone in that midfield now. 
Ryan Jack looks a better player to me. Or a more offensive one at least. He’s really came on last season or two. 
Greg Taylor doesn’t deserve to lose his place either. Robertson is a great player for Liverpool and used to play great for Scotland but something is up with him these days when playing for the national side. 

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Mikey1874
1 minute ago, Locky said:

Well, this is something else I've spoke about recently. Look at Hickey, played in a Scottish Cup final at 16. Still only 17 and a first team regular for one of the biggest clubs in the country, and apparently on the radar of Man City, one of the best teams in the world.

 

What possible harm could it do to call him up for one of these meaningless games, and get him the experience. Instead we leave him in the under 19's playing against people his own age. It's a waste of time him going on international duty.

 

Hickey hasn't played for Scotland U19s.

 

Hearts asked for him to be rested each time. 

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JimKongUno
11 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

McTominay should not come in for anyone in that midfield now. 
Ryan Jack looks a better player to me. Or a more offensive one at least. He’s really came on last season or two. 
Greg Taylor doesn’t deserve to lose his place either. Robertson is a great player for Liverpool and used to play great for Scotland but something is up with him these days when playing for the national side. 

 

:spoton:

 

Used to think Ryan Jack was overrated and a bit pish , think Gerrard has been good for him he's looked class this season

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Locky
14 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Hickey hasn't played for Scotland U19s.

 

Hearts asked for him to be rested each time. 

Makes sense. Surely playing at that level internationally is a backwards step for his development.

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Mikey1874
Just now, Locky said:

Makes sense. Surely playing at that level internationally is a backwards step for his development.

 

I don't know what the best thing is.

 

A lot of people have been saying Hickey is playing a lot of games at his age. So taking some time out to rest seems sensible. 

 

U19s etc are seen as development so nothing like missing a full squad. 

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jack D and coke
11 minutes ago, JimKongUno said:

 

:spoton:

 

Used to think Ryan Jack was overrated and a bit pish , think Gerrard has been good for him he's looked class this season

Yeah I can’t say I was ever a big fan of him before but in Rangers European games he’s stood out for me and he’s played well last two internationals too. 
Good engine and more skillfull than I’d gave him credit for. 
 

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Locky
3 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

I don't know what the best thing is.

 

A lot of people have been saying Hickey is playing a lot of games at his age. So taking some time out to rest seems sensible. 

 

U19s etc are seen as development so nothing like missing a full squad. 

I agree with the too many games mantra, but I still think a first team call up wouldn't do him any harm or even move him up to under 21's. The thing is, he doesn't even necessarily have to play, just being away with the national team to get him into the routine and stuff could be of great benefit, and having the opportunity to train with different players, a lot of whom are experienced and play at a higher level. He's an aspiring left back so having someone like Robertson (if he can be arsed playing) to model could be of huge benefit. Also with Naismith being back in the fold, all the more reason for Hickey to benefit.

 

I had a little look at some of the major nations in Europe (England, France, Italy, Holland, Belgium and Germany) and only Germany didn't have anyone under 21 in the squad. Even then they had plenty who are 22, 23 etc. Holland and Belgium took 18 year olds with them in their most recent squads. Don't know if they played, yet still, they'll have had a great experience being with seasoned professionals and being away with the national team. Something that can surely only spur them on to develop further. England in particular, had a few players away all under 21, all of whom have been given a few caps at least. Southgate clearly wants to prep these players to being in the swing of things with the national team for if/when they are ready to become regulars.

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Mikey1874
6 minutes ago, Locky said:

I agree with the too many games mantra, but I still think a first team call up wouldn't do him any harm or even move him up to under 21's. The thing is, he doesn't even necessarily have to play, just being away with the national team to get him into the routine and stuff could be of great benefit, and having the opportunity to train with different players, a lot of whom are experienced and play at a higher level. He's an aspiring left back so having someone like Robertson (if he can be arsed playing) to model could be of huge benefit. Also with Naismith being back in the fold, all the more reason for Hickey to benefit.

 

I had a little look at some of the major nations in Europe (England, France, Italy, Holland, Belgium and Germany) and only Germany didn't have anyone under 21 in the squad. Even then they had plenty who are 22, 23 etc. Holland and Belgium took 18 year olds with them in their most recent squads. Don't know if they played, yet still, they'll have had a great experience being with seasoned professionals and being away with the national team. Something that can surely only spur them on to develop further. England in particular, had a few players away all under 21, all of whom have been given a few caps at least. Southgate clearly wants to prep these players to being in the swing of things with the national team for if/when they are ready to become regulars.

 

Totally agree. Well put. 

 

The difference is perhaps the players playing regularly for clubs. There is certainly big tensions in England with players playing regularly for clubs where managers don't want them playing in summer tournaments. 

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jack D and coke
26 minutes ago, Locky said:

I agree with the too many games mantra, but I still think a first team call up wouldn't do him any harm or even move him up to under 21's. The thing is, he doesn't even necessarily have to play, just being away with the national team to get him into the routine and stuff could be of great benefit, and having the opportunity to train with different players, a lot of whom are experienced and play at a higher level. He's an aspiring left back so having someone like Robertson (if he can be arsed playing) to model could be of huge benefit. Also with Naismith being back in the fold, all the more reason for Hickey to benefit.

 

I had a little look at some of the major nations in Europe (England, France, Italy, Holland, Belgium and Germany) and only Germany didn't have anyone under 21 in the squad. Even then they had plenty who are 22, 23 etc. Holland and Belgium took 18 year olds with them in their most recent squads. Don't know if they played, yet still, they'll have had a great experience being with seasoned professionals and being away with the national team. Something that can surely only spur them on to develop further. England in particular, had a few players away all under 21, all of whom have been given a few caps at least. Southgate clearly wants to prep these players to being in the swing of things with the national team for if/when they are ready to become regulars.

All I ever read on here is how people don’t want our players to play in Scotland squads. Some farcical reasons too like he might “get a roasting” and “it’ll destroy him” talking about Souttar playing against Belgium and equally mind blowing nonsense. 
Last two matches a Hearts players was Scotland captain. I like that personally. 

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Locky
9 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

All I ever read on here is how people don’t want our players to play in Scotland squads. Some farcical reasons too like he might “get a roasting” and “it’ll destroy him” talking about Souttar playing against Belgium and equally mind blowing nonsense. 
Last two matches a Hearts players was Scotland captain. I like that personally. 

Personally, I've fallen majorly out of love with our national team. Having Hearts players definitely gives me a bit more enthusiasm though. I will never complain about our players playing for their nation, regardless of where they're from.

 

Look at Glenn Whelan, still getting capped for RoI, and they ****ing love him. Only drums home further how well we've done to sign him.

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jack D and coke
1 minute ago, Locky said:

Personally, I've fallen majorly out of love with our national team. Having Hearts players definitely gives me a bit more enthusiasm though. I will never complain about our players playing for their nation, regardless of where they're from.

 

Look at Glenn Whelan, still getting capped for RoI, and they ****ing love him. Only drums home further how well we've done to sign him.

It’s your personal opinion bud but I don’t understand that tbh. What was different before? I hear people blaming the Indyref and stuff, I don’t get that...I hear people saying Scotland are shit and it’s difficult to argue we’re not but what does that say about Hearts who can barely get a player near the team? How bad does that make us?
It almost seems like a lot of Hearts fans are getting this kind of OF attitude to the Scotland team it’s disappointing to say the least. 
Im looking forward to the draw on Friday I think we have a great chance of making it. It’s possible we could get two matches at Hampden against very beatable opposition, you can’t ask for anymore than that. 
Getting to a finals again would hopefully make people get behind it again. 
 

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Jenks
13 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Robertson and Tierney or Hickey for Taylor and Palmer, Fraser for Forrest or McGregor and McTominay for Jack for a start. Also, not call-offs but Halkett and Souttar for McKenna and Gallacher. In fact, anyone for McKenna. Plus Calum Paterson on the bench at least. I'm also not sure if Leigh Griffiths is still around but him for any of the reserve strikers. Still slim pickings mind you.

Genuinely thing Palmer deserves the right back spot , I like him. We dont need Tierney unless Robertson is ever injured 

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