Jambo-Fox Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 30 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said: Not sure what you are accusing me of? Others on this thread were making a negative spin on their PERCEIVED lack of competitor tendering. I simply clarified why some work was not competitively tendered due to urgent programme constraints - not that I thought the Club had been ripped off. So wind yer neck in! I suspect the lack of competitive tendering did create problems and overspend. I get the impression that some contracts were awarded to inefficient firms. There was a guy (can’t remember his name, a sort of hybrid cross between a tomato and mash!!) that used to post on here (particularly during the new stand build) who claimed he was working on the stand. ... however he was posting on here all day long .... I don’t think he actually did much constructive work! So did his firm see an opportunity and overcharge? No accusations only asking a hypothetical question!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 26 minutes ago, Noah Claypole said: Can't imagine Balfour Beatty and the like would survive another week with a P&L like that. Stick to the Chamois and leave the accountancy to the big boys. The point is that JB are much smaller than Balfour Beatty - stick to what you know which seems to be FA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 26 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Indeed. Google them and they are described as a joinery and carpentry business. For which the numbers are pretty impressive .. particularly the rapid growth since 2017. Noah thinks they are a big contractor! 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 17 minutes ago, JamboAl said: I'm not accusing you of anything. For the third time WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE? When I get an answer we can take it from there. I didn’t say it made any difference - for the umpteenth time I was clarifying the competitive tendering queries from others - read the thread FFS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 16 minutes ago, Last Laff said: You will never win with this one mate. You’ll either get reported or bored to death. Thinks himself the top man on here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 12 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said: I suspect the lack of competitive tendering did create problems and overspend. I get the impression that some contracts were awarded to inefficient firms. There was a guy (can’t remember his name, a sort of hybrid cross between a tomato and mash!!) that used to post on here (particularly during the new stand build) who claimed he was working on the stand. ... however he was posting on here all day long .... I don’t think he actually did much constructive work! So did his firm see an opportunity and overcharge? No accusations only asking a hypothetical question!! Are you referring to me Thomaso as was? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 26 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said: I didn’t say it made any difference - for the umpteenth time I was clarifying the competitive tendering queries from others - read the thread FFS! My apologies if I have misinterpreted. I suppose that's me deposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, JamboAl said: My apologies if I have misinterpreted. I suppose that's me deposed. No problem Al. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 On 21/11/2019 at 18:22, Icon of Symmetry said: Sometimes, just to cheer myself up a wee bit, I like to remember that Gareth Gates pumped Katie Price. ‘Imagine’. Would explain why he disappeared from the public eye , prob still trying to climb out the hole he found himself in. #imajodiemarshguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mdoug79 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Any clever in ITK jkbers know how much money will be freed up once we have paid Ann back, paid off the stadium, and are utilising our increase in income etc? surely that will free up a lot of cash?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meadows Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 6 hours ago, Mdoug79 said: Any clever in ITK jkbers know how much money will be freed up once we have paid Ann back, paid off the stadium, and are utilising our increase in income etc? surely that will free up a lot of cash?? Surely ( hopefully ) a couple of million. purely a guesstimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 6 hours ago, Mdoug79 said: Any clever in ITK jkbers know how much money will be freed up once we have paid Ann back, paid off the stadium, and are utilising our increase in income etc? surely that will free up a lot of cash?? The answer could be not very much or Meadows' £2m. That's my guess. At the moment we are doing very well financially but that includes money from donors and FoH. If these contributions ceased tomorrow we would probably slide a bit unless we cut our cloth If however the stand costs (other than normal maintenance) were behind us and these donations continued the club would have the whole of FoH money as Ann's loan repayment would be complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Once the development is complete and any loans repaid, the club will benefit from three areas, 1) direct donations from FOH (£1.32m last financial year), 2) no club resources paying of loans (£1m last financial year), 3) enhanced income from use of the hospitality lounges both match day and non match day. I'd estimate at least £2m a year better off than now going forward, but it could be another two or three years before we get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guthriesgonads Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Does anyone know where all the early season ticket money went? I thought we'd paid for most of the stand in the previous financial year yet these accounts are showing all our early 2019/20 season ticket money has been spent before the year end. We've only £591k in the bank at the year end but our deferred creditor (season ticket money) is showing as £5,199k at the year end. What has happened to the missing £4.5m? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 59 minutes ago, Guthriesgonads said: Does anyone know where all the early season ticket money went? I thought we'd paid for most of the stand in the previous financial year yet these accounts are showing all our early 2019/20 season ticket money has been spent before the year end. We've only £591k in the bank at the year end but our deferred creditor (season ticket money) is showing as £5,199k at the year end. What has happened to the missing £4.5m? It's still there. It's released to the P&L on a game by game basis throughout the season. It's not included in last year's accounts as cash in the bank, as it relates to the current year's income. If an ST has been bought on credit, then the merchant will normally only hand over the cash on a game by game basis, in order to minimise their risk should the club go bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 On 30/11/2019 at 14:12, Meadows said: Surely ( hopefully ) a couple of million. purely a guesstimate. £2m per year extra should be enough to give Mr Stendel a nice little transfer pot. Certainly enough to do damage in Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: £2m per year extra should be enough to give Mr Stendel a nice little transfer pot. Certainly enough to do damage in Scotland. The issue is that we may have to incur debt to give him it up front and then hope revenue projections are correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guthriesgonads Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Footballfirst said: It's still there. It's released to the P&L on a game by game basis throughout the season. It's not included in last year's accounts as cash in the bank, as it relates to the current year's income. If an ST has been bought on credit, then the merchant will normally only hand over the cash on a game by game basis, in order to minimise their risk should the club go bust. I get that part, the deferred credit is release to the P&L during the new financial year - that's just an accounting entry. My question is, where has the cash gone? It looks like it's been spent before the season even started. Most other clubs have really high cash balances at 30 June due to the season ticket money taken. Not us though. It seems there's a hole of £4m in the bank balance. What did the club do with the cash once they received it? We should have £5m in the bank at the year end like other clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meadows Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Guthriesgonads said: I get that part, the deferred credit is release to the P&L during the new financial year - that's just an accounting entry. My question is, where has the cash gone? It looks like it's been spent before the season even started. Most other clubs have really high cash balances at 30 June due to the season ticket money taken. Not us though. It seems there's a hole of £4m in the bank balance. What did the club do with the cash once they received it? We should have £5m in the bank at the year end like other clubs. Ann Budge’s brother , her partner , her nephew and her daughters boyfriend have it . Simples ... am I doing this right ? Edited December 2, 2019 by Meadows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 44 minutes ago, Meadows said: Ann Budge’s brother , her partner , her nephew and her daughters boyfriend have it . Simples ... am I doing this right ? The "Cash at Bank" figure of £591k is actually higher than the corresponding figure for the previous year of £199k. To the best of my knowledge the club didn't go bust, nor did it stop paying wages or taxes during the last financial year. I'd expect this year to follow that trend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meadows Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Footballfirst said: The "Cash at Bank" figure of £591k is actually higher than the corresponding figure for the previous year of £199k. To the best of my knowledge the club didn't go bust, nor did it stop paying wages or taxes during the last financial year. I'd expect this year to follow that trend. The best of your knowledge is correct , we didn’t go bust , nor stop paying taxes . I didn’t question either of those , merely a tongue in cheek retort to a question about where the money had gone . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, Meadows said: The best of your knowledge is correct , we didn’t go bust , nor stop paying taxes . I didn’t question either of those , merely a tongue in cheek retort to a question about where the money had gone . Don't worry about the tongue in cheek remark as I knew what you were getting at. I should have quoted @Guthriesgonadsinstead of yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 It's probably worthwhile copying a post I made on the FOH Poll thread as it relates to the FOH accounts which have now been published. https://www.foundationofhearts.org/media/327/foundation-of-hearts-limited-30-june-2019-full-accounts.pdf The FOH Accounts and donation levels are actually much better than I had expected. You may recall that the Club's accounts showed that the amount handed over to fund the stand and repay the Bidco loan had fallen from £1.44m in 2017/18 to £1.32m in 2018/19 (a fall of 8.33%). That suggested a concern about falling pledger numbers. Those numbers don't tell the whole story. The actual amount received by FOH in pledges, before expenses, only fell from £1.493m to £1.468m (a fall of just 1.71%). So why the difference from a fall of 8.33% in cash handed over and a reduction of just 1.71% in pledges? The accounts tell us that at year end FOH was carrying a cash balance of £121k against £14.5k last year. Now why FOH should be carrying such a large balance of cash, I don't know. My understanding was that FOH was supposed to use 95% of its pledges to pay down the loan. It's a question for the AGM I suppose. The good news is that we should be £121k closer to fan ownership than it looked when the club's accounts were published. FOH's own expenses for the year fell from £46k to £41k, so money isn't being squandered. However, unlike previous years, there is no breakdown of how the expenses were used, e.g. DD charges, accountants fees, plot ceremonies etc., another question for the AGM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Zlatanable said: I received an email today, 2/12/19, from FoH which included; a letter from the Chairman, the formal notice of the AGM, the financial accounts and a form for proxy (if you can't be there and want someone to act on your behalf). 'The annual general meeting of the Foundation will be held in the Gorgie Suite, Tynecastle Park at 6.00 p.m. on Tuesday, 17 December.' Hopefully a decent attendance this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 10 hours ago, davemclaren said: The issue is that we may have to incur debt to give him it up front and then hope revenue projections are correct. Quite possibly first instalment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 10 hours ago, Guthriesgonads said: I get that part, the deferred credit is release to the P&L during the new financial year - that's just an accounting entry. My question is, where has the cash gone? It looks like it's been spent before the season even started. Most other clubs have really high cash balances at 30 June due to the season ticket money taken. Not us though. It seems there's a hole of £4m in the bank balance. What did the club do with the cash once they received it? We should have £5m in the bank at the year end like other clubs. Maybe the capital items are all scheduled for payment in May/June when we know we will have the cash. Certainly no cash in from st’s bought using finance plan, possibly not much in from credit card purchases in second half June. Really depends on timing of season ticket renewals. Can’t remember the timings this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 12 hours ago, Guthriesgonads said: Does anyone know where all the early season ticket money went? I thought we'd paid for most of the stand in the previous financial year yet these accounts are showing all our early 2019/20 season ticket money has been spent before the year end. We've only £591k in the bank at the year end but our deferred creditor (season ticket money) is showing as £5,199k at the year end. What has happened to the missing £4.5m? 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Magic Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, Icon of Symmetry said: 🤔 Good work Sherlock 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said: Good work Sherlock 👍 It’s not even subtle, is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Magic Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Icon of Symmetry said: It’s not even subtle, is it? Subtle as a knock on your sisters door on a Saturday night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 11 hours ago, Guthriesgonads said: I get that part, the deferred credit is release to the P&L during the new financial year - that's just an accounting entry. My question is, where has the cash gone? It looks like it's been spent before the season even started. Most other clubs have really high cash balances at 30 June due to the season ticket money taken. Not us though. It seems there's a hole of £4m in the bank balance. What did the club do with the cash once they received it? We should have £5m in the bank at the year end like other clubs. It’s in the bank, but not in the accounts because it relates to a following year. It’s advance income. Cash balance is adjusted to remove cash in advance. Just as if there was a plan to spend £5m in the following year it wouldn’t be in the current years accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1953 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 hour ago, soonbe110 said: It’s in the bank, but not in the accounts because it relates to a following year. It’s advance income. Cash balance is adjusted to remove cash in advance. Just as if there was a plan to spend £5m in the following year it wouldn’t be in the current years accounts. Don't agree, if it was in the bank it would have to show in the accounts. There would also be an equivalent balance sheet item to account for the prepaid income. It would then move from the balance sheet to the profit and loss account bit by bit but the cash would be irrelevant at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartsofgold Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Guthriesgonads?? I know a Guthrie family that are very very much of the green persuasion. Just saying........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coburg Hearts Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Icon of Symmetry said: 🤔 Great detection, Mothy, but why are they so obsessed with our finances? (that was a rhetorical question) He definitely had the sniff sniff about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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