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1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

My mum and other relatives on her side of the family came from the Hoose. I lived there for 6 months after I was born until we moved upmarket to Bonnyrigg. 

You should be eternally grateful to your family

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Footballfirst
25 minutes ago, FruitJuice said:

Seriously? Yes!  Come ahead ya jambo swines...

They've invested a fair bit in their ground at the Newbattle complex, including a nice wee stand, in order to get their SFA Licence.

 

easthouses01.png

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Just now, Footballfirst said:

They've invested a fair bit in their ground at the Newbattle complex, including a nice wee stand, in order to get their SFA Licence.

 

easthouses01.png

Thanks for that FF.  Hearts are now my wee team...  in your opinion, you pleased with the changes to the scottish game with this new pyramid system.  I dont just mean the lowland league etc, I mean for teams like dalkeith juniors etc.  Out of the midlothian teams, who do you think is the best equipped to go the furthest?  Is it teams like whitehill from the old senior league or do teams like bonnyrigg have the better potential?  Didn't mean to bombard you with as many questions  sorry.

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@FruitJuice

My take on your questions

Nb the "pyramid" has been in place for about 10 years. It's taken a real boost in the East over the past 2 seasons with a critical mass of former Junior sides moving to the East of Scotland league. I can only say from following my laddie playing for Blackburn Utd in the Junior leagues and now the "Senior" leagues is that it is hugely more positive, well organised, professional and progressive. Biggest changes
- Full season fixture list

- League campaigns not derailed by endless Junior Cup fixtures/postponements/replays

- First call on Referee AND linesmen

- Disciplinary issues like suspensions dealt with competently and consistently
- U20s leagues and you can play U20s as part of your squad with no registraiton issues

- Many clubs moving towards SFA licensing seeing a general upturn in ground facilities

- Clubs can use floodlights for matches!
- I hear as well that there are grants and payments from the SFA including Scottish Cup money for each round for licenced clubs

- Far greater quality in the East seniors compared to rump East Juniors

- Attendances are up
- Better communication from East League management
- Far better use of website and social media

Just off the top of my head like 😉

 

Edited by RobboM
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3 minutes ago, RobboM said:

@FruitJuice

My take on your questions

Nb the "pyramid" has been in place for about 10 years. It's taken a real boost in the East over the past 2 seasons with a critical mass of former Junior sides moving to the East of Scotland league. I can only say from following my laddie playing for Blackburn Utd in the Junior leagues and now the "Senior" leagues is that it is hugely more positive, well organised, professional and progressive. Biggest changes
- Full season fixture list

- League campaigns not derailed by endless Junior Cup fixtures/postponements/replays

- First call on Referee AND linesmen

- Disciplinary issues like suspensions dealt with competently and consistently
- U20s leagues and you can play U20s as part of your squad with no registraiton issues

- Many clubs moving towards SFA licensing seeing a general upturn in ground facilities

- Clubs can use floodlights for matches!
- I hear as well that there are grants and payments from the SFA including Scottish Cup money for each round for licenced clubs

- Far greater quality in the East seniors compared to rump East Juniors

- Attendances are up
- Better communication from East League management
- Far better use of website and social media

Just off the top of my head like 😉

 

Thanks for that. It seems that its bringing a wee bit more professionalism to it.  Not a criticism of the guys who used to commit their time to these clubs. It looks like they are getting these benefits by joining the sfa system.  

Out of the midlothian teams, I think bonnyrigg could have the ability to go the furthest.  Maybe I'm just thinking that after seeing the dec6crowd at last fridays game  thanks for reply.

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Last wee point  is loanhead the only midlothian town without a team? I suppose if you've been there you can see why.  Even wee rosewell has a team...

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Footballfirst
1 hour ago, FruitJuice said:

Thanks for that FF.  Hearts are now my wee team...  in your opinion, you pleased with the changes to the scottish game with this new pyramid system.  I dont just mean the lowland league etc, I mean for teams like dalkeith juniors etc.  Out of the midlothian teams, who do you think is the best equipped to go the furthest?  Is it teams like whitehill from the old senior league or do teams like bonnyrigg have the better potential?  Didn't mean to bombard you with as many questions  sorry.

I think the pyramid system is the right way forward, particularly for the non SPFL clubs. Everyone can find their level appropriate to their ability, then progress if they are ambitious enough and have the resources to do so.

 

As I alluded to earlier, the last couple of years has seen a significant improvement in facilities across the board by LL and EOS teams. I've thoroughly enjoyed visiting grounds across the country over the last 10 years then going back and seeing the upgrades. I am glad to see the back of the open latrines that were common at junior grounds (some still remain), but most have gone at EOS grounds. The appearance of ladies toilets was a novel experience for some clubs.

 

The standard of football is obviously not at SPFL standard, but I've seen improvements at LL level which features an increasing number of players who have played at a higher level.

 

The clubs with most potential unsurprisingly are those with the most resources, whether that is higher gates, a social club, generous sponsors etc.  The league tables tell their own story in that regard. If you look at the top two in each of the three EOS conferences last season, then that is a good indication of those most likely to progress at the moment, Bonnyrigg, Bo'ness, Penicuik, Hill of Beath, Broxburn and Linlithgow.

 

The problem they have at the moment is the lack of opportunities for promotion from and into the Lowland League. There are playoffs against the HL champions, then the bottom SPFL club if you are to go up from the LL, and normally only one relegated side dropping from the LL. Even then, promotion from the EOS is still dependent on a play off with the SOS champions and being a Licensed club. Some of the clubs that look good at the moment may not be able to sustain that level for the five years or so that it might take to progress to the LL.

 

Currently Midlothian teams such as Netwtongrange, Dalkeith, Whitehill, Arniston, Easthouses will have their good seasons, and may flirt with promotion to the LL from time to time, but I cant see any of them progressing above the EOS Premier League (Tier 6) for the foreseeable future.  That is the same level of the old East of Scotland Junior Superleague.   

 

It might take a few years for all clubs to reach their level, but we have already seen East Stirling and Berwick lose their SPFL places and others like Whitehill, Hawick, Preston and Selkirk lose the LL places they previously held with little competition.   

Edited by Footballfirst
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8 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I think the pyramid system is the right way forward, particularly for the non SPFL clubs. Everyone can find their level appropriate to their ability, then progress if they are ambitious enough and have the resources to do so.

 

As I alluded to earlier, the last couple of years has seen a significant improvement in facilities across the board by LL and EOS teams. I've thoroughly enjoyed visiting grounds across the country over the last 10 years then going back and seeing the upgrades. I am glad to see the back of the open latrines that were common at junior grounds (some still remain), but most have gone at EOS grounds. The appearance of ladies toilets was a novel experience for some clubs.

 

The standard of football is obviously not at SPFL standard, but I've seen improvements at LL level which features an increasing number of players who have played at a higher level.

 

The clubs with most potential unsurprisingly are those with the most resources, whether that is higher gates, a social club, generous sponsors etc.  The league tables tell their own story in that regard. If you look at the top two in each of the three EOS conferences last season, then that is a good indication of those most likely to progress at the moment, Bonnyrigg, Bo'ness, Penicuik, Hill of Beath, Broxburn and Linlithgow.

 

The problem they have at the moment is the lack of opportunities for promotion from and into the Lowland League. There are playoffs against the HL champions, then the bottom SPFL club if you are to go up from the LL, and normally only one relegated side dropping from the LL. Even then, promotion from the EOS is still dependent on a play off with the SOS champions and being a Licensed club. Some of the clubs that look good at the moment may not be able to sustain that level for the five years or so that it might take to progress to the LL.

 

Currently Midlothian teams such as Netwtongrange, Dalkeith, Whitehill, Arniston, Easthouses will have their good seasons, and may flirt with promotion to the LL from time to time, but I cant see any of them progressing above the EOS Premier League (Tier 6) for the foreseeable future.  That is the same level of the old East of Scotland Junior Superleague.   

 

It might take a few years for all clubs to reach their level, but we have already seen East Stirling and Berwick lose their SPFL places and others like Whitehill, Hawick, Preston and Selkirk lose the LL places they previously held with little competition.   

The only downside I suppose is the timing.  In the old days the juniors etc wouldve been a decent breeding ground for players.  With the academies I suppose the good players will get snapped up before these clubs get to enjoy them for a couple of seasons.  Was surprised to see pennycuik in the list of clubs that could sustain a slightly higher level. With the Scottish cup early rounds including these teams, I suppose that is a good opportunity to get local fans along to a game with the hope that they'll keep coming back.  That and some fans feeling that spfl games are becoming too expensive.  If teams like bonnyrigg can get rour figure crowds at the lacma they are now, there is no need to feel that they could compete crowd wise with a lit of the league 1 and 2 sides.  With money being tight in local authorities, I wonder if community councils could maybe try to help raise funds as a football club doing relatively well helps promoting these towns and also adds to their identity.  I might be wrong there but you I hope you can see what i mean.  

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SectionDJambo
1 hour ago, FruitJuice said:

Last wee point  is loanhead the only midlothian town without a team? I suppose if you've been there you can see why.  Even wee rosewell has a team...

Used to have Loanhead Mayflower, back in the day.

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Be cracking if east lothian can get a team in the football league in the near future Tranent are doing really well and seem to be growing every season 

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13 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Used to have Loanhead Mayflower, back in the day.

Nothin against loanheid, just cant remember having a junior side.  Mon the Mayflower...

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7 hours ago, FruitJuice said:

What about the team that represents the capital of midlothian? If Easthouses got floodlights, does that mean they could climb the leagues with a view to promotion to league 2?  If I win the euro millions I'm going to fund their aim for world domination.  If they did have the resources,  could easthouses climb the league? 

My local club.

 

It's a great wee set up actually. You should get yourself along they've done a lot of work . The wee club house looks crackin and they serve hot food n drink

 

The far side now has a small seated stand and the ground is completely enclosed.

 

Due to floodlights I manage to make the odd midweek game.

 

Unfortunately on the pitch they are quite poor. I guess they suffer from larger neighbours (star, bonnyrigg ) and easthouses itself is wee.

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1 minute ago, Alan_R said:

My local club.

 

It's a great wee set up actually. You should get yourself along they've done a lot of work . The wee club house looks crackin and they serve hot food n drink

 

The far side now has a small seated stand and the ground is completely enclosed.

 

Due to floodlights I manage to make the odd midweek game.

 

Unfortunately on the pitch they are quite poor. I guess they suffer from larger neighbours (star, bonnyrigg ) and easthouses itself is wee.

Would be my local club when I was at school.  I used to go and watch them under a different name when they played next to the barley bree. Probably a different club but still easthouses. I'm really chuffed that they are doing well off the pitch.  Who's the local derby against?  Went to see arniston rangers and nitten star when i was younger but they never meant anything to me.  Thanks for the reply 

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SectionDJambo
3 hours ago, FruitJuice said:

Nothin against loanheid, just cant remember having a junior side.  Mon the Mayflower...

I remember, as a wee lad, going along to see Arniston Rangers playing them away. No idea where the ground was though.

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Just now, SectionDJambo said:

I remember, as a wee lad, going along to see Arniston Rangers playing them away. No idea where the ground was though.

I honestly cant remember them.  The only place I can think of them playing their games would be behind loanhead miners club.  Was this pre 1980's? 

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SectionDJambo
13 minutes ago, FruitJuice said:

I honestly cant remember them.  The only place I can think of them playing their games would be behind loanhead miners club.  Was this pre 1980's? 

I’m now, what is officially called, a senior citizen. So yes, pre 1980s. Probably pre 1970s. Sorry, still no idea where it was. Vague, and possibly wrong, recollection of blue and yellow strips.

Maybe they didn’t last long.

Easthouses Primrose are another I remember. They played on the pitch next to the Barley Bree. Houses on both sites now.

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Footballfirst

According to an archive of Scottish football clubs there was a senior side callled Loanhead Benburb in the 1890s and three versions of a junior side called Lothian Mayflower, the last of which folded in 1965. There may have been amateur sides with the same name thereafter. They played at Memorial Park

 

Loanhead Benburb Senior Loanhead Mid Lothian 1896 1898      
Loanhead Mayflower [1] Junior Loanhead Mid Lothian 1891 1894      
Loanhead Mayflower [2] Junior Loanhead Mid Lothian 1900 1928   Blue with amber sleeves Memorial Ground
Loanhead Mayflower [3] Junior Loanhead Mid Lothian 1947 1965   Blue with amber sleeves Memorial Ground
Edited by Footballfirst
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9 hours ago, SectionDJambo said:

I’m now, what is officially called, a senior citizen. So yes, pre 1980s. Probably pre 1970s. Sorry, still no idea where it was. Vague, and possibly wrong, recollection of blue and yellow strips.

Maybe they didn’t last long.

Easthouses Primrose are another I remember. They played on the pitch next to the Barley Bree. Houses on both sites now.

I couldn't remember the name of the easthouses club at the barley bree.  Thanks   I remember being there watching a game the day Aberdeen won 4-0 at Easter road to clinch the title.  

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SectionDJambo
1 hour ago, FruitJuice said:

I couldn't remember the name of the easthouses club at the barley bree.  Thanks   I remember being there watching a game the day Aberdeen won 4-0 at Easter road to clinch the title.  

Correction, after asking my brother. Its Easthouses Lily, not Primrose. They did play next to the Barley Bree. He says Loanhead may have played in the public park, and definitely existed, to his recollection.

He threw another one into the mix, although not in Midlothian. Walleyford Bluebell.

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Footballfirst
58 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Correction, after asking my brother. Its Easthouses Lily, not Primrose. They did play next to the Barley Bree. He says Loanhead may have played in the public park, and definitely existed, to his recollection.

He threw another one into the mix, although not in Midlothian. Walleyford Bluebell.

Wallyford teams

 

Wallyford Bluebell Junior Wallyford East Lothian 1909 1938
Wallyford Rangers Junior Wallyford East Lothian 1907 1908
Wallyford Thistle [1] Junior Wallyford East Lothian 1905 1906
Wallyford Thistle [2] Junior Wallyford East Lothian 1911 1915
Wallyford Violet Junior Wallyford East Lothian 1906 1911
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1 hour ago, SectionDJambo said:

Correction, after asking my brother. Its Easthouses Lily, not Primrose. They did play next to the Barley Bree. He says Loanhead may have played in the public park, and definitely existed, to his recollection.

He threw another one into the mix, although not in Midlothian. Walleyford Bluebell.

It was easthouses lily.  So are the new easthouses the midlothian sevco or a different club? I'm only joking.  Mon the hooses though. Did you ever see that thing in the telly a few years ago about Darren fletcher where they showed footage of him as a youngster playing in the pitch next to the bowling club?  It was brilliant seeing it on the telly.  

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19 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

It might take a few years for all clubs to reach their level, but we have already seen East Stirling and Berwick lose their SPFL places and others like Whitehill, Hawick, Preston and Selkirk lose the LL places they previously held with little competition.   

 

Eventually, all teams will find their true level in the pyramid, however, mules like Kelty, Bonnyrigg, BSC Glasgow, etc. will rise above their station due to sponsorship/investment.  Kelty, like Cove, probably punch above their weight in comparison with their support base.

 

I expect to see LTHV, after a poor season or two, to rise into the Lowland League IF they can sort out the coonsil's shitty Saughton Enclosure.  There was a time when they were going to build their own stadium at the Morgan playing field, off Peffermill Rd.      

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20 hours ago, FruitJuice said:

Last wee point  is loanhead the only midlothian town without a team? I suppose if you've been there you can see why.  Even wee rosewell has a team...

 

I recall watching my lad play for Hutchie at U19s vs Loanhead Miners Welfare FC.  It was played at the Leisure Centre and all I can remember was it blowing a gale.  Loanhead were awarded an OG when the Hutchie keeper took a bye kick and the ball was blown back into the goal by the wind.  The ref. abandoned the match at HT.  

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30 minutes ago, Tasavallan said:

 

Eventually, all teams will find their true level in the pyramid, however, mules like Kelty, Bonnyrigg, BSC Glasgow, etc. will rise above their station due to sponsorship/investment.  Kelty, like Cove, probably punch above their weight in comparison with their support base.

 

I expect to see LTHV, after a poor season or two, to rise into the Lowland League IF they can sort out the coonsil's shitty Saughton Enclosure.  There was a time when they were going to build their own stadium at the Morgan playing field, off Peffermill Rd.      


I'd be surprised if LTHV got that as high as the Lowland League. None of the Edinburgh sides have a significant support. Last season average attendance for LTHV was 60, Craigroyston 47, Leith Ath 55, Edin Utd 65. For comparison Blackburn Utd are minnows and they averaged 113, Broxburn Ath 224.

If the West Junior sides were to enter the pyramid below the Lowland League I'd guess they would eventually take about 5-8 of the league spots, current Lowland League sides about 4-5 spots, the East Premier 4-5 spots. From that type of Lowland League I'd guess about half would move comfortably into the SPFL2. LTHV are a long way from that kind of club I think.

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  • 7 months later...
49 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 


Musselburgh Athletic is next. 👍

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Great to see these clubs taking this step.

Most significant though is Bo'ness getting their license. It means they should now be promoted to the Lowland League (all Lowland League sides have to be licenced) and the LL will operate with 17 sides next seaosn given that Kelty Hearts havebeen denied the opportunity to move up to SPFL Div 2

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  • 3 months later...

Vale of Leithen from the Lowland League have played friendly games this month against Peebles Rovers, Hutchie Vale, Upper Annandale and Penicuik Athletic with a game against Leith Ath on Saturday at Peffermill. 

 

The LL starts on Oct 10 away to Berwick R.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Tasavallan said:

Vale of Leithen from the Lowland League have played friendly games this month against Peebles Rovers, Hutchie Vale, Upper Annandale and Penicuik Athletic with a game against Leith Ath on Saturday at Peffermill. 

 

The LL starts on Oct 10 away to Berwick R.

 

 

 

Tranent have beaten Preston,Bo'ness,Fauldhouse and  Tynecastle so far in pre-season friendlies

 

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Niemi’s gloves
2 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

 


I’m a bit surprised that clubs at LL and EoS levels aren’t complaining loudly about the disparity with England. In England, below the National Leagues, clubs seem to be allowed to have fans as long as they socially distance. Here, we have the JRG with all of the self interest at work, lots of concern for the premier league, minimal for the rest of the SPFL and apparently nil for non league clubs

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13 minutes ago, Niemi’s gloves said:


I’m a bit surprised that clubs at LL and EoS levels aren’t complaining loudly about the disparity with England. In England, below the National Leagues, clubs seem to be allowed to have fans as long as they socially distance. Here, we have the JRG with all of the self interest at work, lots of concern for the premier league, minimal for the rest of the SPFL and apparently nil for non league clubs

They are complaining.

 

Here is a statement from Penicuik earlier today.

Image

Image

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Niemi’s gloves

Thanks FF. Glad to see that some are complaining. 
 

Out of interest, I did some checking to see how big the clubs are that ARE allowed spectators in England:

 

Step 3 of the non-league system (i.e. immediately below the National Leagues, North and South): 88 clubs in 4 parallel leagues with an average gate of 393 in 2019/20 (range 103 to 1735)

 

Step 4 of the non-league system: 140 clubs in 7 parallel leagues with an average gate of 207 in 2019/20 (range 54 to 810)

 

If anything that makes English step 3 only a little smaller than SPFL League 2 in average support and step 4 I guess comparable to the Lowland league here

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19 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

They are complaining.

 

Here is a statement from Penicuik earlier today.

Image

Image


If they start a collection, I’d happily chip in. I’d buy a season ticket that I’d never use too. Did it with the team I support, so why not my local side. Think I’ll look in to it.

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Wouldn’t oppose the non-pro leagues receiving public assistance. Probably wouldn’t cost that much. Surprised there has t been folk shaking buckets and things though. I’m sure folk round here would happily put some money forward.

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1 minute ago, Beast Boy said:

Wouldn’t oppose the non-pro leagues receiving public assistance. Probably wouldn’t cost that much. Surprised there has t been folk shaking buckets and things though. I’m sure folk round here would happily put some money forward.

Bonnyrigg Rose have suspended season ticket sales for the moment but are raising money by selling bricks for a supporters wall.

 

Will probably buy one as I watched them with my dad and grandad so, like Hearts, I have a long family connection. 
 

 

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Just now, davemclaren said:

Bonnyrigg Rose have suspended season ticket sales for the moment but are raising money by selling bricks for a supporters wall.

 

Will probably buy one as I watched them with my dad and grandad so, like Hearts, I have a long family connection. 
 

 


Good man. 👍

 

Hopefully PAFC do something similar. They maybe already are, but I just don’t know about it. I’ve never even been to one of their games yet, but intend to, and would definitely help out if I could. I would imagine most people feel the same about their local clubs too.

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On 19/06/2020 at 17:01, Cruickshank for Scotland said:


Musselburgh Athletic is next. 👍

From what I heard, Mussy hopeful of getting it next year at earliest. Quite a bit of work needing done to get it. I thought floodlights was the main one but turns out they need a 2nd gate for fans, as well as a gate for emergency vehicles to access the ground. The latter of which has just been completed though.

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4 hours ago, Locky said:

From what I heard, Mussy hopeful of getting it next year at earliest. Quite a bit of work needing done to get it. I thought floodlights was the main one but turns out they need a 2nd gate for fans, as well as a gate for emergency vehicles to access the ground. The latter of which has just been completed though.


Cracking floodlights now installed 👍

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30 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:


Cracking floodlights now installed 👍

Hopefully not long before I get along to a game. Only been to Olivebank once since I moved here!

 

I do wish sometimes though that the Lowland and EoS leagues played on Friday nights so I could attend non league without having to worry about Hearts games too.

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1 minute ago, Locky said:

Hopefully not long before I get along to a game. Only been to Olivebank once since I moved here!

 

I do wish sometimes though that the Lowland and EoS leagues played on Friday nights so I could attend non league without having to worry about Hearts games too.


Going by the fixture list Mussy have quite a few midweek games under floodlights.

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6 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:


Going by the fixture list Mussy have quite a few midweek games under floodlights.

Excellent!

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15 hours ago, Beast Boy said:


Good man. 👍

 

Hopefully PAFC do something similar. They maybe already are, but I just don’t know about it. I’ve never even been to one of their games yet, but intend to, and would definitely help out if I could. I would imagine most people feel the same about their local clubs too.


Absolutely. I’m a Musselburgh man, bought a season ticket and went along to quite a games last season, fitted in between Hearts games.

They get around 300 at games which is disappointing considering Musselburgh has a population of 30,000.

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8 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:


Absolutely. I’m a Musselburgh man, bought a season ticket and went along to quite a games last season, fitted in between Hearts games.

They get around 300 at games which is disappointing considering Musselburgh has a population of 30,000.


Yeah, I think it’s a good thing. Wouldn’t take much to help these clubs out. I’m a Hearts man first and foremost, but you can’t just let your small local clubs die off. 

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23 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:


Absolutely. I’m a Musselburgh man, bought a season ticket and went along to quite a games last season, fitted in between Hearts games.

They get around 300 at games which is disappointing considering Musselburgh has a population of 30,000.


Same but at Blackburn Utd for me. Gave up most Hearts saturday away fixtures (no hardship last season!) It's surprising just how many of your wee fixtures fit in really nicely. One area of huge progress in EoS over Junior is the organisation of full season fixture lists rather than the week to week existence in old Junior days.

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Vale of Leithen play their first home night game under their new floodlights at Vitoria Park against Bo'ness Utd on 13 Oct.  Having lighting installed has avoided relegation from the LL and meeting SFA licence requirements.

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