4marsbars Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Gimme an H... said: He's cost us a lot of points since he came back from that injury... Sad to see. You'd have to balance that against the number of headers he has won, the last-ditch challenges that were successful, the (until recently) effective offside trap we play..... Berra may actually have stopped more goals going in than other defenders would. Problem is, when he makes a mistake these days, it tends to be a howler. But he may be far from finished. If he can get a break once players come back from injury (could still be ages though) maybe he can recover that dominance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodami Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 I agree that he has made mistakes this season but I think there are some mitigating factors that need to be taken into consideration. Playing with different central defensive partners and often different full backs, switching formations to the dreaded 3 which has never suited him and playing in front of 2 uncertain and at times unpredictable keepers doesn't help. What is absolutely clear is how much he loves the club and I think taking the captaincy away would really hurt him. Not sure this is the time for any additional upheaval at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We_are_the_Hearts Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Jodami said: I agree that he has made mistakes this season but I think there are some mitigating factors that need to be taken into consideration. Playing with different central defensive partners and often different full backs, switching formations to the dreaded 3 which has never suited him and playing in front of 2 uncertain and at times unpredictable keepers doesn't help. What is absolutely clear is how much he loves the club and I think taking the captaincy away would really hurt him. Not sure this is the time for any additional upheaval at all. Good post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R08813 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, Jodami said: I agree that he has made mistakes this season but I think there are some mitigating factors that need to be taken into consideration. Playing with different central defensive partners and often different full backs, switching formations to the dreaded 3 which has never suited him and playing in front of 2 uncertain and at times unpredictable keepers doesn't help. What is absolutely clear is how much he loves the club and I think taking the captaincy away would really hurt him. Not sure this is the time for any additional upheaval at all. Agreed! Pretty much sums my thoughts on this up better than I could have put it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Green Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 He might have misjudged the flight of the ball for the second goal but imo Dikamona was more at fault for both goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1rousset Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dallas Green said: He might have misjudged the flight of the ball for the second goal but imo Dikamona was more at fault for both goals. Totally agree-CB is still more than capable of playing regularly at this level-I think we’ll see him back to his best as the injuries clear and we are able to field a settled side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthVodka Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 14 minutes ago, Dallas Green said: He might have misjudged the flight of the ball for the second goal but imo Dikamona was more at fault for both goals. Totally correct - Dikamona was miles away from who he should have been marking on both occasions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambothump Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Leave him be, but Naysmith is the real skipper on the field, without the pressure of the title, a future manager for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnB Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 22 minutes ago, Jodami said: I agree that he has made mistakes this season but I think there are some mitigating factors that need to be taken into consideration. Playing with different central defensive partners and often different full backs, switching formations to the dreaded 3 which has never suited him and playing in front of 2 uncertain and at times unpredictable keepers doesn't help. What is absolutely clear is how much he loves the club and I think taking the captaincy away would really hurt him. Not sure this is the time for any additional upheaval at all. Mate, you're managing to make him sound like he's a complete "snowflake". The funny thing is, I feel almost the exact opposite - that he is a strong character who loves the club to such an extent that he would accept being dropped and losing the captaincy with good grace. Of course it'll hurt him to some extent - he's only human - but we've got a club to run as successfully as we can and that means fielding the best team we can every game. May sound hard but there's no room for passengers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimme an H... Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 23 minutes ago, Dallas Green said: He might have misjudged the flight of the ball for the second goal but imo Dikamona was more at fault for both goals. He not misjudged it IMO. He's left it thinking either Dikamona would be covering or it would run through to Joel. Should have done what he usually does and stick his heid right through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 On 06/08/2019 at 12:36, Natural Orders said: As i have said before - I don;t think he should be captain any more... he is too complacent. Michael Smith is more of a captain than Christophe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_R Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, DH1986 said: Assuming you are talking about the beginning of last season...... Berra only played one full game in that run. He got injured in the second game v Celtic. No maybe it was longer than that. The run we went record time without conceeding, and he was top for winning aerial battles. Was a lift time ago, maybe was longer than I thought but I'm sure it was souttar and Berra partnership? Edit- was last year pre injuries https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts-christophe-berra-disappointed-scotland-snub-319402 Edited November 12, 2019 by Alan_R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodami Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, JohnB said: Mate, you're managing to make him sound like he's a complete "snowflake". The funny thing is, I feel almost the exact opposite - that he is a strong character who loves the club to such an extent that he would accept being dropped and losing the captaincy with good grace. Of course it'll hurt him to some extent - he's only human - but we've got a club to run as successfully as we can and that means fielding the best team we can every game. May sound hard but there's no room for passengers. So anyone who feels hurt is now a snowflake. I despair, I really do. There is more to being the club captain than what goes on on the park and Berra is a Hearts fan and representative of the club in an extremely dignified way. The fact that he came back as soon as possible and is willing to play half fit tells you the type of character he is. To describe him as a passenger is beyond belief and reveals a tacit lack of understanding on your behalf. Loyalty is a 2 way street and anyone who is part of a team understands and respects that. In addition to that, in what way would it improve him as a player as he is still first choice and will play. And who would replace him as captain? Naismith? A player who sadly more often than not isn't fit and when he is does a great job anyway directing and cajoling players around him. He quite clearly doesn't need the captaincy to continue doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jodami said: So anyone who feels hurt is now a snowflake. I despair, I really do. There is more to being the club captain than what goes on on the park and Berra is a Hearts fan and representative of the club in an extremely dignified way. The fact that he came back as soon as possible and is willing to play half fit tells you the type of character he is. To describe him as a passenger is beyond belief and reveals a tacit lack of understanding on your behalf. Loyalty is a 2 way street and anyone who is part of a team understands and respects that. In addition to that, in what way would it improve him as a player as he is still first choice and will play. And who would replace him as captain? Naismith? A player who sadly more often than not isn't fit and when he is does a great job anyway directing and cajoling players around him. He quite clearly doesn't need the captaincy to continue doing that. Spot on Jodami. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpship Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 I think Levein's defensive shambolic tactics and surrounding Berra with utter sh1t has wrecked his confidence. Its will take time to get him back to his best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1971fozzy Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Jodami said: I agree that he has made mistakes this season but I think there are some mitigating factors that need to be taken into consideration. Playing with different central defensive partners and often different full backs, switching formations to the dreaded 3 which has never suited him and playing in front of 2 uncertain and at times unpredictable keepers doesn't help. What is absolutely clear is how much he loves the club and I think taking the captaincy away would really hurt him. Not sure this is the time for any additional upheaval at all. great post. 100% agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamTarts51 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Still more than capable to play in the SPFL however I feel when Halkett and Souttar return his playing time will decrease steadily. The concern is when he needs to defend the space behind him and that may become more difficult if we press opposition for longer spells and is required to simply run more. Obvious by his body language after games that he accepts his current form and confidence is low but hopefully with a return in team form should boost him. Still the captain for the now imo, would like to see what influence he has behind the scenes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy T Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 hour ago, jumpship said: I think Levein's defensive shambolic tactics and surrounding Berra with utter sh1t has wrecked his confidence. Its will take time to get him back to his best. He'll certainly improve now we seem to have stopped inviting the opposition on to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearts attack Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Christophe Berra is a valuable player for Hearts and works very well with Souttar and Smith as his defensive partners. I am not so sure about his partnership with Halkett because I notice there are often openings in the defence when Halkett is playing. To me, Halkett might be better playing further forward where he could be more effectively deployed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasavallan Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 3 hours ago, Gimme an H... said: He not misjudged it IMO. He's left it thinking either Dikamona would be covering or it would run through to Joel. Should have done what he usually does and stick his heid right through it. It could be argued that Dikamona was found lacking at both goals. For their first goal: Smith got caught for the cross ball, but Clevid was ball watching and let Obika get free and run into space. For the second goal: Clevid should have been marking Mullan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 3 hours ago, jumpship said: I think Levein's defensive shambolic tactics and surrounding Berra with utter sh1t has wrecked his confidence. Its will take time to get him back to his best. While it is understandable to think the above has played a part I think, whether some like it or not, that Christophe has never fully recovered from the injury he had against Celtic at Tynecastle towards the start of last season. When he did come back into the side it may very well have been too soon, but rushing players back was a signal of a lack of depth and options in the squad. I do think that once all our players are fit, and assuming all are still here (Hickey potentially being the most likely to depart) I would think that the back 4 will eventually pick itself, in Smith, Halkett, Souttar and Hickey. Christophe continues to be strong in the air, but he is noticeably slower on the ground and less confident with the ball at his feet. And that isn't meant to be said or taken as being cruel, it is only reflective of what is on show regularly. It may be the case that once a new manager is in place, once the two other central defenders are fit then might be the perfect time for Christophe to be offered a role coaching defensive players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 4 hours ago, Dallas Green said: He might have misjudged the flight of the ball for the second goal but imo Dikamona was more at fault for both goals. Dikamona was way out of position for the second goal imo, ridiculously so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnB Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 3 hours ago, Jodami said: So anyone who feels hurt is now a snowflake. I despair, I really do. There is more to being the club captain than what goes on on the park and Berra is a Hearts fan and representative of the club in an extremely dignified way. The fact that he came back as soon as possible and is willing to play half fit tells you the type of character he is. To describe him as a passenger is beyond belief and reveals a tacit lack of understanding on your behalf. Loyalty is a 2 way street and anyone who is part of a team understands and respects that. In addition to that, in what way would it improve him as a player as he is still first choice and will play. And who would replace him as captain? Naismith? A player who sadly more often than not isn't fit and when he is does a great job anyway directing and cajoling players around him. He quite clearly doesn't need the captaincy to continue doing that. Please re-read my post. I didn't at any point say he was a "snowflake", merely that in my estimation your post made him out to be one. I think I was pretty generous in how I described him and how I thought he was made of sterner stuff than what was being suggested. The question of whether or not he deserves to be dropped, carried or replaced as team captain is pretty academic and will inevitably have to be addressed at some point soon. I repeat my earlier comment " he would accept being dropped and losing the captaincy with good grace". That's the measure of the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said: Dikamona was way out of position for the second goal imo, ridiculously so. Hasn't played a lot of games, rusty to say the least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, Sir Gio said: Hasn't played a lot of games, rusty to say the least Yeah, definitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfhearts Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Berra will be fine, unlike some he plays through injury, you can tell he is not happy playing with Dikamona as positionally he is all over the place. Would love Soutar to get fit again so they can pair up would give whole club a lift. Halkett to me needs to find his feet still defensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodami Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 26 minutes ago, JohnB said: Please re-read my post. I didn't at any point say he was a "snowflake", merely that in my estimation your post made him out to be one. I think I was pretty generous in how I described him and how I thought he was made of sterner stuff than what was being suggested. The question of whether or not he deserves to be dropped, carried or replaced as team captain is pretty academic and will inevitably have to be addressed at some point soon. I repeat my earlier comment " he would accept being dropped and losing the captaincy with good grace". That's the measure of the guy. That is clearly what anyone would say if that happened, you wouldn't spit the dummy in public. But it's frankly not required and I really don’t see what good it would do in the middle of a season. Plenty of captains are still club captains but don't play every game. Wes Morgan can't get in the Leicester team but he is still the club captain. If you are seeking to change the captaincy then it makes sense to do it in the close season. Tell me, exactly what difference do you think it would make? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Looks more solid with Smith next to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 4 hours ago, jumpship said: I think Levein's defensive shambolic tactics and surrounding Berra with utter sh1t has wrecked his confidence. Its will take time to get him back to his best. Even back at his best he is behind Soapy and Halkett imo. Very good back up,possibly too good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfhearts Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Never behind Halkett for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Panzee Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 7 hours ago, johnthomas said: The Berra is finished story is just bollocks Not sure but seem to remember it starting with he has no/never had pace . Completely untrue . People seem to pick up on these things and just , with no evidence , run with it . Yea he screwed up on Saturday , best players in the world do . Dikamona as his partner didn't help . Best combination at present , I think , is Smith and Berra . Possibly that weakens us too much at RB ? IIRC I'm sure I saw an article / some stats featuring the pace of our players and Berra was either top or right up there....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said: IIRC I'm sure I saw an article / some stats featuring the pace of our players and Berra was either top or right up there....? I'm assuming you go to games, do you genuinely believe that Christophe Berra is one of the fastest players in our side. I think only someone blind or trying to go down a line of thought they either can't or are unwilling to move away from will have failed to notice the difference in how quick he reacts to things now in comparison with when he first returned to the club, and that all came about following the injury he picked up last season at home to Celtic. It is there for everyone to see, but there again if some people can't or don't want to see it there ain't much that you can do to change such a chain of thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthomas Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said: IIRC I'm sure I saw an article / some stats featuring the pace of our players and Berra was either top or right up there....? Yes , yet we have people talking about Berra , and others , without having a clue of his strengths or weaknesses . They read a post , headline (whatever) and take off like headless chickens . You'd almost think they'd never seen them play ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Panzee Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said: I'm assuming you go to games, do you genuinely believe that Christophe Berra is one of the fastest players in our side. I think only someone blind or trying to go down a line of thought they either can't or are unwilling to move away from will have failed to notice the difference in how quick he reacts to things now in comparison with when he first returned to the club, and that all came about following the injury he picked up last season at home to Celtic. It is there for everyone to see, but there again if some people can't or don't want to see it there ain't much that you can do to change such a chain of thought. Yes I'm a season ticket holder. i was simply posting about something that I'd seen / read. An article / stat that I didn't write I hasten to add. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Just now, Jim Panzee said: Yes I'm a season ticket holder. i was simply posting about something that I'd seen / read. An article / stat that I didn't write I hasten to add. No problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Lfhearts said: Berra will be fine, unlike some he plays through injury, you can tell he is not happy playing with Dikamona as positionally he is all over the place. Would love Soutar to get fit again so they can pair up would give whole club a lift. Halkett to me needs to find his feet still defensively. Yip, I like Dikamona. He's good to be on the bench and for 4th choice he'll do. But tbh he's a bit of a bombscare. Got the odd good game in him but is just generally a level below what we'd want. For their second goal on Saturday, no idea what he is doing tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said: Yip, I like Dikamona. He's good to be on the bench and for 4th choice he'll do. But tbh he's a bit of a bombscare. Got the odd good game in him but is just generally a level below what we'd want. For their second goal on Saturday, no idea what he is doing tbh. He's pretty bad, seems like a great guy, ok on the ball, but zero defensive discipline or awareness. Its amazing to me that he got another year TBH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayman Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 10 hours ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said: This isn’t about his form. We are all pretty much agreed he is struggling. My question is more - is he still doing a decent captain’s job/role? I’m not so sure he is but am I wrong? There’s much more to being a club captain than being a leader on the pitch. We don’t see 95% of his duties so we can’t judge. You don’t need an armband to be a leader on the pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diadora Van Basten Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Thought Berra played really well against Rangers. Against St Mirren I think he was to blame for the second as he appeared to let the ball run through unaware of the player behind him. I think he is frustrated with the way things have gone this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
132goals1958 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said: Thought Berra played really well against Rangers. Against St Mirren I think he was to blame for the second as he appeared to let the ball run through unaware of the player behind him. I think he is frustrated with the way things have gone this season. He certainly did. which suggests he has a problem maintaining consistency which I am confident with his resolve will hopefully be a temporary thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 35 minutes ago, Smithee said: He's pretty bad, seems like a great guy, ok on the ball, but zero defensive discipline or awareness. Its amazing to me that he got another year TBH. Without any youngsters pushing through, he's what I'd expect for 4th choice tbh. He's maybe even 5th choice. Berra is far better and when Halkett and/or Souttar is fit Dikamona will be back up, no more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Panzee Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 2 hours ago, portobellojambo1 said: No problem. 👍 i do think Berra is not as good as he was previously. His terrible injury combined with playing alongside all manner of different players and formations I don't think has helped. re: pace, it would be interesting if the same tests were to be done again - to compare to the previous results. a players gait / running style can be deceptive. Chris Waddle was regularly described as languid at best, lazy at worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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