Berra

[TommiGronlund]

Watching the opening goal on Sunday it struck me what a high line we had when the ball was punted over and I know Christophe got a touch on it but it struck me why do we hold such a high line when berra over that distance is quite slow? Surely as mentioned on here a few weeks ago we should look at dropping him into some form of sweeper position? His reading of the game is fantastic so wouldn't this suit his game better? Thoughts? 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

As i have said before - I don;t think he should be captain any more... he is too complacent.

 

 

[TommiGronlund]

3 minutes ago, Natural Orders said:

As i have said before - I don;t think he should be captain any more... he is too complacent.

 

 

I think everyone and there dog can see naisy is the real leader in the squad.... Sunday was the case & point. 67 odd mins without a shot on target and naisy comes on and within 10 mins were 2-1 up

Edited August 6, 2019 by TommiGronlund

[Cruyff Turn]

2 minutes ago, TommiGronlund said:

Watching the opening goal on Sunday it struck me what a high line we had when the ball was punted over and I know Christophe got a touch on it but it struck me why do we hold such a high line when berra over that distance is quite slow? Surely as mentioned on here a few weeks ago we should look at dropping him into some form of sweeper position? His reading of the game is fantastic so wouldn't this suit his game better? Thoughts? 

Why?

 

So the distances between our attack, midfield and defence is shorter.

 

So that Aberdeen are under pressure and we can press high forcing them to play long or into passing mistakes, limiting the time they have on the ball because we are closer to them.

 

I didn’t actually realise Cosgrove was as quick as he was but had we played a deep line we’d be inviting Aberdeen to come forward, inviting them to use Cosgrove more effectively to win headers and hold up play on the edge of our box. 

 

I think we had it spot on, Aberdeen were toiling the create anything until Individual errors cost us the game.

 

I actually think we win or score another with eleven on the park and probably walk away with a draw or a win if Dikamona doesn’t tried to hump McGinn.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

8 minutes ago, TommiGronlund said:

I think everyone and there dog can see naisy is the real leader in the squad.... Sunday was the case & point. 67 odd mins without a shot on target and naisy comes on and within 10 mins were 2-1 up

Exactly!

 

Berra is not a good captain - he often just moans at others too

[Debut 4]

Just a moment in the game we got caught out and due to a misjudgement.  

 

Football isn’t an exact science. I agree with another poster that maybe our aim was to hem them in by pushing up but sometimes the unpredictable nature of football throws all the best intentions out the window. 

 

However, I do think Berra shouldn’t be exposed in a back 3.  Maybe that goal doesn’t happen in a back 4, but who knows?  I just think

generally we need to be more positive in approach and take our chances that way. 

[jambocub]

15 minutes ago, Natural Orders said:

As i have said before - I don;t think he should be captain any more... he is too complacent.

 

 

I was just watching training today and you can see that naismiith is the main man . 

Berra might have the armband but naismiith is the one setting the examples.

Was pretty good to watch him train while organizing everything else

[innerjambo]

Berra made a clumsy mistake with that header, he misjudged it, and that led to the goal. Much as we all love him, at the moment, in those situations, he's just a bit of a liability. 

[TommiGronlund]

4 minutes ago, jambocub said:

I was just watching training today and you can see that naismiith is the main man . 

Berra might have the armband but naismiith is the one setting the examples.

Was pretty good to watch him train while organizing everything else

Was Glen Whelan there?

[jambocub]

Just now, TommiGronlund said:

Was Glen Whelan there?

No

[Sagan]

Decent article on the bbc site. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49477027

 

Conclusion: It's all Berra's fault 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

This isn’t about his form. We are all pretty much agreed he is struggling.

 

My question is more - is he still doing a decent captain’s job/role?

 

I’m not so sure he is but am I wrong?

[DH1986]

1 minute ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

My question is more - is he still doing a decent captain’s job/role?

Not from where I sit.

[Absolute Scenes]

I don't hear him talking at all, unless something goes wrong at the back. Naismith seems to be doing his job.

Its heartbreaking because when the anger subsides about how badly he is playing these days, you forget he wanted to come here and end his career, is hearts through and through, doesn't want to admit that it might be game over - all these things would be difficult for any of us to deal with. He's been a quality servant (both times) but I think for us to move forward, we need to play our best 11

[Irufushi]

Overall he’s been utter mince this season, you could argue this year even. 
 

[kila]

Doesn't look like it unfortunately.

 

Naismith is the most obvious choice but if he isn't going to play every game going forward, Smith is the next best choice.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

I said before the season started that he should no longer be captain - but got stick for saying it from the usual crowd.

 

but still don’t think he is a good captain anymore 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

On 06/08/2019 at 12:48, Natural Orders said:

Exactly!

 

Berra is not a good captain - he often just moans at others too

I stand by this 

[TheBigO]

He looks down to me, like his confidence is shot. Possibly for tge first time ever. He'll get through it.

 

Did you notice at first goal on Sat, Christophe demanded every player get in and celebrate together. Wee Hickey was 5 yards from the group hug and was forcefully ushered in. Thats captain stuff.

 

Led to believe he had bustups with CL. Get the impression hes found the last year particularly difficult. Shows he cares.

[Lovecraft]

4 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

He looks down to me, like his confidence is shot. Possibly for tge first time ever. He'll get through it.

 

Did you notice at first goal on Sat, Christophe demanded every player get in and celebrate together. Wee Hickey was 5 yards from the group hug and was forcefully ushered in. Thats captain stuff.

 

Led to believe he had bustups with CL. Get the impression hes found the last year particularly difficult. Shows he cares.

 Yeah.  I think he just needs a bit of a break.  We tried a few weeks ago, but he had to come on as sub.

 

Play him in the middle of a back 3 and he has been fine.

 

With him being a Hearts man, he will be feeling the same as us.  That can't be good for your game.  He seems more cautious now, rather than the calm but strong Berra we have seen for years.

 

He isn't finished.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Lovecraft

[i8hibsh]

We are a struggling losing team and Berra is the captain. It is not ****ing rocket science. He is clearly not doing a good job anymore. Naismith is the best player in the league imo bu he can't be captain due to lack of times he will feature for us. My desire would be a tough midfielder being captain but apart from Whelen they are all soft as shite. Obviously no point in Whelen. For me it has to be Smith.

[The Gorgie]

His role is now a squad player. Unfortunately our squad is ****ed so he has to play every game.

[The Treasurer]

8 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

He looks down to me, like his confidence is shot. Possibly for tge first time ever. He'll get through it.

 

Did you notice at first goal on Sat, Christophe demanded every player get in and celebrate together. Wee Hickey was 5 yards from the group hug and was forcefully ushered in. Thats captain stuff.

 

Led to believe he had bustups with CL. Get the impression hes found the last year particularly difficult. Shows he cares.

Your last paragraph sums it up perfectly.

Yes his form has dipped, I'm sure he'd be first to admit it, but you could never fault his commitment to the team/club.

I get the feeling he's played some games when not fully fit which has not done himself any favours but he put the team first.

He's by no means finished as some would suggest, but I think once we have others fit he won't be forced to play week in week out, which I'm sure would see a return to the player we know he is.

[4marsbars]

15 minutes ago, Irufushi said:

Overall he’s been utter mince this season, you could argue this year even. 
 

 

You could at least show some respect to a great servant who,  I imagine, is probably playing through more pain than anyone ever should, judging by his reduced mobility. 

[gashauskis9]

Career fecked through being rushed back from injury.  He was a colossus before that.

 

He’s struggling physically and mentally, you can tell.

[Irufushi]

4 minutes ago, 4marsbars said:

 

You could at least show some respect to a great servant who,  I imagine, is probably playing through more pain than anyone ever should, judging by his reduced mobility. 

he shouldn’t be playing then 

[151]

6 minutes ago, 4marsbars said:

 

You could at least show some respect to a great servant who,  I imagine, is probably playing through more pain than anyone ever should, judging by his reduced mobility. 

 

Maybe thats what led to bustups with Levein. Levein didn't and wouldnt.

[kingantti1874]

6 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Career fecked through being rushed back from injury.  He was a colossus before that.

 

He’s struggling physically and mentally, you can tell.

Agree

[Gimme an H...]

He's cost us a lot of points since he came back from that injury... 

 

Sad to see. 

[busby1985]

He’s never been a huge talker anyway, on the pitch or off it. Does his talking with his performances and sadly they’ve been nowhere near his best for a year now. The injury and the rush to get him back looks like it’s destroyed him. Naismith is the captain when he’s in and around our squad. 

[Bazzas right boot]

He needs rested, but not an option with Halkett and Souttar Injured and Dikamona struggling. 

 

Same thing with Clare tbh. 

 

Once Naismith and Walker were back he got dropped. 

Once Souttar and/or Halkett are back, Berra will be dropped/ rested for a bit. 

 

It's not that difficult a concept than when we have our better players out we will play worse and If you have a large numbers of injuries the opportunity to rotate and drop players is limited. 

 

Imo, Dikamona was largely at fault for their second as well. 

 

Pretty basic stuff to drop in a few feet to cover your more advanced centre half in that situation, he was well of the pace for that goal. 

Far too big a gap and probably 5-10 feet too far forward. 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Smith's right boot

[Prince Buaben]

as folk have said he looks shot of confidence. Think he is not confident to open up and run like he maybe once did incase he gets injured again. Think ideally he would sit games out.

[highlandjambo3]

Think he’s done at the playing end...might be a coaching spot somewhere.....SN an easy shoe in replacement 

[upgotheheads]

46 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

This isn’t about his form. We are all pretty much agreed he is struggling.

 

My question is more - is he still doing a decent captain’s job/role?

 

I’m not so sure he is but am I wrong?

 

No. I've been thinking the same for a while. Steven Naismith seems to be the one doing the Captain's job on the pitch, whenever he's there that is. You've asked a serious question, maybe one that will be addressed with the new manager but it will need careful handling. 

[upgotheheads]

7 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

He needs rested, but not an option with Halkett and Souttar Injured and Dikamona struggling. 

 

Same thing with Clare tbh. 

 

Once Naismith and Walker were back he got dropped. 

Once Souttar and/or Halkett are back, Berra will be dropped/ rested for a bit. 

 

It's not that difficult a concept than when we have our better players out we will play worse and If you have a large numbers of injuries the opportunity to rotate and drop players is limited. 

 

Imo, Dikamona was largely at fault for their second as well. 

 

Pretty basic stuff to drop in a few feet to cover your more advanced centre half in that situation, he was well of the pace for that goal. 

Far too big a gap and probably 5-10 feet too far forward. 

 

 

 

We need Halkett and Souttar back urgently. Wasn't Halkett expected back by December? We haven't heard much about Souttar recently either.

[Irufushi]

7 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

He needs rested, but not an option with Halkett and Souttar Injured and Dikamona struggling. 

 

Same thing with Clare tbh. 

 

Once Naismith and Walker were back he got dropped. 

Once Souttar and/or Halkett are back, Berra will be dropped/ rested for a bit. 

 

It's not that difficult a concept than when we have our better players out we will play worse and If you have a large numbers of injuries the opportunity to rotate and drop players is limited. 

 

Imo, Dikamona was largely at fault for their second as well. 

 

Pretty basic stuff to drop in a few feet to cover your more advanced centre half in that situation, he was well of the pace for that goal. 

Far too big a gap and probably 5-10 feet too far forward. 

 

 

back four of smith, hickey, dikamona and white. Genuinely feel he needs rested for a good few weeks. Could argue we can’t afford to rest him of course but I think he desperately needs it.

[Alan_R]

Long way from the collossus he was during that long unbeaten streak.

 

Rushed back from injury. For those writing him off tho he is not done yet, had two good games recently v Hibs and the draw  v rangers he done a great job on Morelos.

 

It's a fair point he's not seeming to lead as well as he maybe did, much less vocal but our form and play in general has been turgid.

 

With a new manager I'm not writing him off, still a very important player.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Alan_R

[18Jambo_dave74]

For me he's always been a captain that looks to lead by example rather than scream and shout. I think that the problem is he knows how poorly he is performing and that is affecting him as a captain. 

 

It's quite obvious that Naismith is the captain on the pitch and we have really missed someone who will get at the referee. This is something that the old firm always have and I have always thought that Berra is a bit too nice and doesn't apply pressure on a referee when decisions are going against us. 

 

I think the best way forward in the long run would be for Berra to come out of the team, particularly when Souttar and Halkett are fit. I'd be happy for him to remain as club captain but hopefully we'd have a new captain on the pitch. 

[Bazzas right boot]

Just now, Irufushi said:

back four of smith, hickey, dikamona and white. Genuinely feel he needs rested for a good few weeks. Could argue we can’t afford to rest him of course but I think he desperately needs it.

 

Tbh, I'd keep him there just now. 

Dikamona is 4th choice for a reason , Smith is better at RB, Hickey is better at lb. 

 

Shuffling it all up weakens us imo. 

 

Once Souttar and Halkett are back, rest him. 

I think he's been better the last month as well, still needs rested tho. 

 

 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

5 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

We need Halkett and Souttar back urgently. Wasn't Halkett expected back by December? We haven't heard much about Souttar recently either.

 

Yip. 

 

The difference of having Walker and Naismith back as well as an option of Mulraney really shows we need our better players back. 

 

Not only for the 1st team, but the ability to drop and rest players, take guys out the firing line, adapt during the game etc. 

 

 

[Shug73]

Feels like he is costing us a goal a game this season. Not what is expected. If Halkett and Souttar hadn't got injured he wouldn't be featuring IMO.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Still has a big part to play as a player. Not the giant he was, his poor form has impacted other players, he will feel he let Craig Levein down. That will affect him. 
 

But he is turning up, works his socks off and keeps putting those 90 minute shifts in, never gives any less than 100% you can’t ask for any more from a player his age.
 

Then when we were going to rest him Halkett goes and gets injured, that’s been our luck for the last year. We need to be managing Christophe and deploying him where he can have the biggest impact and be as fresh as possible in the games he does play. But right now with our lack of options he is still one of the first names on the team sheet for the time being 

[upgotheheads]

Two Berra threads going  on at the same time Mods.

[Jim Panzee]

17 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

He needs rested, but not an option with Halkett and Souttar Injured and Dikamona struggling. 

 

Same thing with Clare tbh. 

 

Once Naismith and Walker were back he got dropped. 

Once Souttar and/or Halkett are back, Berra will be dropped/ rested for a bit. 

 

It's not that difficult a concept than when we have our better players out we will play worse and If you have a large numbers of injuries the opportunity to rotate and drop players is limited. 

 

Imo, Dikamona was largely at fault for their second as well. 

 

Pretty basic stuff to drop in a few feet to cover your more advanced centre half in that situation, he was well of the pace for that goal. 

Far too big a gap and probably 5-10 feet too far forward. 

 

 

Agree.

 

Berra with a Soutter or Halkett alongside him will be better. 

 

Naismith, Walker and with Washington and Whelan returning will mean the ball is not in our half as much. Meaning more respite for our defence. Hopefully in turn, this means more wins, and attention deflects from how our defenders are doing to how our midfield / forwards are doing.

[Locky]

Berra seems to be almost devoid of all self-confidence. For a veteran defender, who has played at a good level, and always been fit and been a 7 or 8 every week, it's mental how he has just dropped. I think his injury last season has definitely had at the very least a mental impact on him. He said so himself that he'd never really been seriously injured before until then, and I think being thrust back into the team last season as captain when we were on a horrible run and being part of the rest of the season when things were at a real low point, has certainly affected him. He looks as though he still carries the scars a bit from last season.

 

Even just being involved at amateur level, I've seen cases of this happening and the simple solution is to temporarily switch captaincy. The former captain then gets a chance to just focus on their own game again which is something they can't really do as captain. Berra knows he doesn't have a long time left in the game and I think that injury made him feel older for the first time really. He needs to get back on the horse again ASAP, or perhaps he will be forced into retirement a little earlier than planned.

[Bazzas right boot]

10 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

Agree.

 

Berra with a Soutter or Halkett alongside him will be better. 

 

Naismith, Walker and with Washington and Whelan returning will mean the ball is not in our half as much. Meaning more respite for our defence. Hopefully in turn, this means more wins, and attention deflects from how our defenders are doing to how our midfield / forwards are doing.

 

Yip, rest/ drop out of firm players, more options. 

 

Concede less, score more. 

Get confidence. 

 

All good. 

 

 

[DH1986]

31 minutes ago, Alan_R said:

Long way from the collossus he was during that long unbeaten streak.

 

Rushed back from injury. For those writing him off tho he is not done yet, had two good games recently v Hibs and the draw  v rangers he done a great job on Morelos.

 

It's a fair point he's not seeming to lead as well as he maybe did, much less vocal but our form and play in general has been turgid.

 

With a new manager I'm not writing him off, still a very important player.

 

 

Assuming you are talking about the beginning of last season......

 

Berra only played one full game in that run. He got injured in the second game v Celtic.

[Rudy T]

Berra is club captain there's more to the role than just putting the armband on for games and shouting and balling at players. Naismith is an obvious leader on the pitch but perhaps doesn't want to be involved in all the other activities that go along with being captain. I don't see the issue nothing wrong with having more than one leader on the pitch and perhaps Berra and the team are quite happy with the set up as it is.

[4marsbars]

1 hour ago, Wham Bam Austin McCann said:

 

Maybe thats what led to bustups with Levein. Levein didn't and wouldnt.

 

If any player's career was ravaged by career-threatening injury, Levein was.

 

 

 

[johnthomas]

1 hour ago, Jim Panzee said:

Agree.

 

Berra with a Soutter or Halkett alongside him will be better. 

 

Naismith, Walker and with Washington and Whelan returning will mean the ball is not in our half as much. Meaning more respite for our defence. Hopefully in turn, this means more wins, and attention deflects from how our defenders are doing to how our midfield / forwards are doing.

The Berra is finished story is just bollocks Not sure but seem to remember it starting with he has no/never had pace . Completely untrue . People seem to pick up on these things and just , with no evidence , run with it .

Yea he screwed up on Saturday , best players in the world do . Dikamona as his partner didn't help .

Best combination at present , I think , is Smith and Berra . Possibly that weakens us too much at RB ?