Pans Jambo Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 18 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: Eh? You do know that the Scottish Government and Edinburgh Council are not 1 in the same right? If the Scotgov gifts Edin Council £1.4Mill but they (the council) decide to only spend a 14th of that then who’s to blame there??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Just now, Dawnrazor said: Yep, who's in charge of the ec........... never mind 😂 Not the SG... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: Yep, who's in charge of the ec........... never mind 😂 NOC - labour/SNP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 So ECC is an island state on its own, Scotlands answer to "Passport to Pimlico" which is answerable and influenced by no one.......remind what the SNP does? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: So ECC is an island state on its own, Scotlands answer to "Passport to Pimlico" which is answerable and influenced by no one.......remind what the SNP does? I think you might be ( quite badly ) pursuing an agenda here. 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, davemclaren said: I think you might be ( quite badly ) pursuing an agenda here. 😄 😂😂😂 You're correct, I've been busted, I'm just trying to give Boris a platform to be his usual boaring pretentious self👺 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie1874 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 23 hours ago, Stewie Griffin said: Interesting that the jump of 27% happened the same year ( 2018 ) that minimum pricing on alcohol was introduced in Scotland. Could there be a link there ?, looking at the table for drug deaths per capita two other countries where alcohol is expensive Sweden and Norway are 3rd and 4th on the list only Estonia between them and Scotland. Obviously I don’t know if this change in minimum pricing is linked but surely it’s something that should be getting looked at as a possible contributing factor to the sudden jump in drug related deaths. I think that’s a really fair point that needs to be considered. There were some stats a few months ago that a Glasgow’s homeless community was experiencing an unprecedented growth in drug related deaths caused by street Valium. No doubt minimum pricing would have impacted that group of people. The question being is that a contributing factor in people turning to other cheaper alternatives. I am surprised more questions haven’t been asked on this. Regardless it’s all a very sad and tragic state of affairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, Zlatanable said: The first Scottish issue of the Independence era. Everyone is watching. Did I miss something...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Just now, Zlatanable said: I dunno, have you? Independence in the last 24 hours..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Reekin' Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Dawnrazor said: 😂😂😂 You're correct, I've been busted, I'm just trying to give Boris a platform to be his usual boaring pretentious self👺 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Zlatanable said: DETTY29, take responsibility. Absolutely. The figures are horrific for Scotland. I was listening to Radio Scotland earlier and the parents of those that have died are adamant that the policies that the current Scottish Government want to introduce will help but can't because they are blocked by Westminster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 5 hours ago, Auld Reekin' said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 8 hours ago, Dawnrazor said: 😂😂😂 You're correct, I've been busted, I'm just trying to give Boris a platform to be his usual boaring pretentious self👺 Sorry, couldn't find a boar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 I wonder if the same posters criticising the council over their budget underspend, made similar comments each year when the SG puts cash in to a reserve rather than distributing to local councils? What do we think? Lol. Anyway, drugs. Tricky one. Coming from the generation of the Second Summer of Love, and seeing what a positive impact on culture recreational drug use can have, I'm a bit torn on it. Needs a radical rethink and to decriminalize the users at the very least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, pablo said: I wonder if the same posters criticising the council over their budget underspend, made similar comments each year when the SG puts cash in to a reserve rather than distributing to local councils? What do we think? Lol. There's a difference between a budget underspend and being given a budget for a specific thing (a bid, if you like) and then not spending it on that purpose. Equally, I don't understand why the SG keeps monies back instead of spending - if you have a budget, spend it! 1 hour ago, pablo said: Anyway, drugs. Tricky one. Coming from the generation of the Second Summer of Love, and seeing what a positive impact on culture recreational drug use can have, I'm a bit torn on it. Needs a radical rethink and to decriminalize the users at the very least. The narrative needs to move away from all drugs = bad, imo. At the same time, if certain narcotics are legalised/decriminalised, then I'd rather the state controlled supply/licensed vendors a la alcohol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Boris said: Sorry, couldn't find a boar... Your never boring Boris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Reekin' Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 7 hours ago, Zlatanable said: Take this matter seriously. I do take the matter seriously, just not those who look to score political points over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, Harry Potter said: Your never boring Boris. Cheers H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunphy Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 12 hours ago, Cade said: Seems that Embra Coonsil was given £1.4million by the Scottish Government for drug abuse related services but has only spent £100k of that, and is using the other £1.3million as a cash reserve to balance the books CoEC has a funding gap of about £30m, though. I can absolutely understand why they’re trying to keep as much as they can. I don’t think many people understand just how brutal the cuts would have to be for them to plug that gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Boris said: There's a difference between a budget underspend and being given a budget for a specific thing (a bid, if you like) and then not spending it on that purpose. Equally, I don't understand why the SG keeps monies back instead of spending - if you have a budget, spend it! The narrative needs to move away from all drugs = bad, imo. At the same time, if certain narcotics are legalised/decriminalised, then I'd rather the state controlled supply/licensed vendors a la alcohol. Spending a budget isn't as easy as you think. I remember many financial year ends scurrying about trying to find ‘useful’ things to spend money on before we lost it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, davemclaren said: Spending a budget isn't as easy as you think. I remember many financial year ends scurrying about trying to find ‘useful’ things to spend money on before we lost it. Top level govt could though. Even if it meant handing a tenner out to everyone! Agree re end of year spending though - a fear that you will lose the following year. Very efficient! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, davemclaren said: Spending a budget isn't as easy as you think. I remember many financial year ends scurrying about trying to find ‘useful’ things to spend money on before we lost it. Me too. I had to bid for millions Jan-March, we got it in April and if we didn't spend it by the following March we gave it back and got **** all. Useless funding regime. My team all had nice laptops though Edited July 18, 2019 by SE16 3LN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, SE16 3LN said: Me too. I had to bid for millions Jan-March, we got it in April and if we didn't spend it by the following March we gave it back and got **** all. Useless funding regime. My team all had nice laptops though You both should come and work with me to see how to overspend on a budget, I've got spending other peoples money down to a fine art!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 2 hours ago, SE16 3LN said: Me too. I had to bid for millions Jan-March, we got it in April and if we didn't spend it by the following March we gave it back and got **** all. Useless funding regime. My team all had nice laptops though It didn’t seem the most efficient approach but the accountants loved it and hated approving any accruals into the next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haken Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 I've read that a lot of the deaths are occurring among a slightly older generation of drug users. It's not simply a case of 'death by drugs', but drug use added on to other underlying health issues (which probably stem from. or are exacerbated by, long term drug use). And it's possibly no coincidence that these figures occur during a period of ongoing austerity and figure more prominently in areas of real poverty where austerity hits harder. There is a legislative difficulty in that some of the more radical ideas for tackling the issue would fall foul of the legislation; that legisaltion is a reserved matter and therefore a matter for the UK government. People dying by whatever means really shouldn't be about political point scoring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 8 hours ago, Harry Potter said: Your never boring Boris. This! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 9 hours ago, pablo said: I wonder if the same posters criticising the council over their budget underspend, made similar comments each year when the SG puts cash in to a reserve rather than distributing to local councils? What do we think? Lol. Anyway, drugs. Tricky one. Coming from the generation of the Second Summer of Love, and seeing what a positive impact on culture recreational drug use can have, I'm a bit torn on it. Needs a radical rethink and to decriminalize the users at the very least. The SG have all councils money to tackle education and Labour/lib/Tory run councils spent on different things and blamed the SNP for falling standards in Education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 21 hours ago, Phil Dunphy said: You, sir, are an undiluted arsehole. ****ing astonishing you're allowed to make remarks like that. I'm all hurtit! 100% Concentrated, btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Seems (as usual up here), there may have been some statistical differences in how “drug deaths” are counted. The BBC etc are painting Scottish drug deaths as being junkies down a back street with a dirty needle hanging out a vein. Imagine a scene from Trainspotting. Like that! Shite! All deaths where drugs are found in their system are counted so for example: Poisoning Suicide Morphine Prescription overdose ”Legal Highs” Folks who died as a result of a Heart attack, stroke, Car crash, fall, knocked down, drowned, etc. where theres drugs in their system that didnt even contribute directly to their death is counted as a drug death. A comprehensive report can be found at the National records. Its more detailed than rUK or the rest of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 There are a variety of reasons why people take drugs . One is they enjoy it ! No one seems to think about this? It gives them a sense of euphoria and disengagement from real life and other isses . This is Similar to alcohol which kills far more people in Scotland than drugs. I dont agree with the methadone programme which essentially parks users on it for literally years . There should be complimentary therapy for users of drugs such as counselling for them to try get them to understand why they are taking drugs and to hopefully get them off them eventually ., if they want to . However some dont and are willing to take the chances of a Bad batch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddley Walker Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: There are a variety of reasons why people take drugs . One is they enjoy it ! No one seems to think about this? It gives them a sense of euphoria and disengagement from real life and other isses . This is Similar to alcohol which kills far more people in Scotland than drugs. I dont agree with the methadone programme which essentially parks users on it for literally years . There should be complimentary therapy for users of drugs such as counselling for them to try get them to understand why they are taking drugs and to hopefully get them off them eventually ., if they want to . However some dont and are willing to take the chances of a Bad batch. Totally agree with your methadone comments. Folk are just stuck on it for life it seems with little plan to get them off. A lot of heroin addicts I've spoken to have said they wish they'd never started on it, they basically just transferred their dealer to a chemist which gives them it for free, and will probably still take more smack later in the day anyway. It also rots your teeth and makes you shake. Horrible stuff. The money that's wasted on it that could go into recovery and preventative measures is insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Riddley Walker said: Totally agree with your methadone comments. Folk are just stuck on it for life it seems with little plan to get them off. A lot of heroin addicts I've spoken to have said they wish they'd never started on it, they basically just transferred their dealer to a chemist which gives them it for free, and will probably still take more smack later in the day anyway. It also rots your teeth and makes you shake. Horrible stuff. The money that's wasted on it that could go into recovery and preventative measures is insane. Yeah it basically makes the users zombies / apathetic and no motivation to change ? It should be issued only if the users are willing to go to counselling as well as trying to come off it. Its used widely as its very very cheap financially but damaging in the long run clearly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie1874 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Pans Jambo said: Seems (as usual up here), there may have been some statistical differences in how “drug deaths” are counted. The BBC etc are painting Scottish drug deaths as being junkies down a back street with a dirty needle hanging out a vein. Imagine a scene from Trainspotting. Like that! Shite! All deaths where drugs are found in their system are counted so for example: Poisoning Suicide Morphine Prescription overdose ”Legal Highs” Folks who died as a result of a Heart attack, stroke, Car crash, fall, knocked down, drowned, etc. where theres drugs in their system that didnt even contribute directly to their death is counted as a drug death. A comprehensive report can be found at the National records. Its more detailed than rUK or the rest of the world. Thats very true, regardless of the way it’s reported or stats are calculated compared to rUK, it’s still a very worrying trend that needs addressed. Approx 60% of the deaths, street Valium was found in the system. Cheap pills which are attractive to the most vulnerable people in society would looks like the main cause. Plenty of of articles in recent times about the growth of this, especially in Dundee and Glasgow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 44 minutes ago, jamie1874 said: Thats very true, regardless of the way it’s reported or stats are calculated compared to rUK, it’s still a very worrying trend that needs addressed. Approx 60% of the deaths, street Valium was found in the system. Cheap pills which are attractive to the most vulnerable people in society would looks like the main cause. Plenty of of articles in recent times about the growth of this, especially in Dundee and Glasgow. I dont disagree at all. My point is Scotland is being seen as a shithole drugs den internationally aided and abetted by our own media. If all countries counted “drug deaths” the same way I am sure Scotland wouldnt even be in the top 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 51 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said: I dont disagree at all. My point is Scotland is being seen as a shithole drugs den internationally aided and abetted by our own media. If all countries counted “drug deaths” the same way I am sure Scotland wouldnt even be in the top 20. It is it’s a disgrace the way I’ve seen the country portrayed in the media last couple of days, you’d think we were all junkies. The amount is unionists who once again leap on it with a type of glee, a proof to them that Scotland is going down the shitter just blows my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 28 minutes ago, jack D and coke said: It is it’s a disgrace the way I’ve seen the country portrayed in the media last couple of days, you’d think we were all junkies. The amount is unionists who once again leap on it with a type of glee, a proof to them that Scotland is going down the shitter just blows my mind. It's the tried and tested narrative. Any bit of bad news . I know you and others wont like it but the trading ground is Brexit. Anyway back on topic. It is political. Everything is especially young people dying from self harm.. Poverty lack of prospects definitely. Lord BJ touched on the subject of environment that has some explanation of our character. Low dark skies. I'd go further. The pchyche of Scotland is imo more prone to these types of stats because we should be independent. It's my main reason for voting independent. Time Scottish people grew a set and took it from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck berrys hairline Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 When you have people selling or swapping their 'script' Infront of the chemist shop to medicate themselves surely that's when you know the systems broken. That's only the prescribed drugs which is only scratching the surface. Also alot of these valium, dihydrocodeine and gabbas (gabbepentin)sp? Get moved out the back door somehow through illicit trading. Point being is there needs to be a stricter control and handling of the drugs. I've always claimed drugs should be taken or administered at the chemists, doctors or in view of a nurse. Pain in the arse for people that need to take alot but that's what home helps for. Then it brings us to the question was the war on drugs worth it? Big Pharma has killed more people than the banned natural substances 🤔. I would like to see herbalists return to our chemists I'm sure this was common practice 100 years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gentleman Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 On 17/07/2019 at 18:40, jack D and coke said: There’s always been something wrong with our psyche imo. This hard image has to be upheld. It was drinking and it still is but now we’re also the biggest cokeheads mixed with drink. Why? We love getting wasted I guess🤷🏽♂️ I see a change in the younger ones tbh they don’t seem to be quite as bad so maybe it’ll take a generation to see any real changes. You're on the money there. The increase in price for alcohol, as an example, isn't solving a problem – it's just moving the problem to other cheaper, but just as 'effective' substances. By 'effective' I mean lethal when ad-hoc mixing takes place. Benzoid cocktails aren't life enhancers. The reasons why (many) Scots have a predilection to 'get wasted' are deep-rooted and cultural. The situation demands a HUGE political response. That's why feck all will happen. They'll just keep moving the problem around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 5 hours ago, Hunky Dory said: You can pinpoint the increase in drug deaths to roughly the beginning of austerity measures. Linking it to minimum pricing is far-fetched, an alcoholic isn't going to purchase a bag of heroin because cider has doubled in price. BOOM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 8 hours ago, Hunky Dory said: You can pinpoint the increase in drug deaths to roughly the beginning of austerity measures. Linking it to minimum pricing is far-fetched, an alcoholic isn't going to purchase a bag of heroin because cider has doubled in price. Doesnt explain Scotlands relationship compared to other parts of Europe who have also experienced austerity . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Does the SNP have an established policy on drug control? I’m just interested in people saying that Scotland needs devolved powers to sort it - because what is Scotland actually proposing to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_ Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 The Guardian (not exactly a paper known for its pro-independence stance) echoing what many on here are saying: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/19/scotland-drugs-problem-westminster-policy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Alcohol kills more people and has a more harmful effect on society (and loss of man hours) than drugs. Scottish Govt decided to address the alcohol issue first. How many piss-heids moved from bucky to skag because of minimum pricing can be debated. Figures show that booze consumption has fallen and booze attributed deaths an other incidents have fallen. Seems to be working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_ Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) What I would like to know is whether we're actually taking any more, or poorer quality, drugs than anywhere else? Or could other factors such as crap housing, cold, diet etc be a factor ie the 'Glasgow Effect' - h0ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_effect Edited July 19, 2019 by Craig_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirt of 98 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 People are dying as they mix Diamorphine with vallies/ fake vallies, gabapentin and Xanax. Cocaine deaths are worrying as some folk seam to think that coke is s drug for a Saturday night as harmless as having a few pints. I really think there’s not much the Government can do as halfwits will always take drugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_ Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 If we're going to have a debate about drugs or alcohol, then surely its time to have a mature debate about obesity, which kills more people than those two put together... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 18 minutes ago, Craig_ said: If we're going to have a debate about drugs or alcohol, then surely its time to have a mature debate about obesity, which kills more people than those two put together... That’s quite a horrendous statistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, Craig_ said: If we're going to have a debate about drugs or alcohol, then surely its time to have a mature debate about obesity, which kills more people than those two put together... You are right. Yet again its hard to think of any high profile initiatives the Scottish Government are taking to tackle the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 26 minutes ago, Craig_ said: If we're going to have a debate about drugs or alcohol, then surely its time to have a mature debate about obesity, which kills more people than those two put together... Absolutely true, although we can treat each problem individually--definitely worth starting a thread though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Craig_ said: If we're going to have a debate about drugs or alcohol, then surely its time to have a mature debate about obesity, which kills more people than those two put together... Indeed, obesity is a curse that blights all so-called "developed" nations. It mostly stems from WW2 when food production methods were improved as many nations were blockaded and had to grow more food themselves. Post-war, this led to massive overproduction and a huge reduction in food costs. Since records began in 1957, spending on food has decreased vastly as a percentage but calorific intake has risen sharply due to processed foods. In 1957, 33% of a family's spending was on food. In 2017 that had fallen to 16%. Food has gotten cheaper but more calorific and lifestyles are becoming more sedentary, resulting in an explosion of obesity. The current advertising of clothing for "plus size" men and women is a dangerous thing. Jacamo, for example, sells clothing up to XXXXXL (that's five X's!) Being morbidly obese is not a valid lifestyle choice and being so big is not something to be celebrated. It's not "who you are". It's not "your glands". It's a healthcare emergency. Edited July 21, 2019 by Cade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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