Drugs Emergency Scotland - Why no thread.

[jambos are go!]

Well over a thousand dead and all over the News. Three times the rate of the rest of the UK. The worst in Europe and worse than the USA. But apparently not worth a thread in the Shed. Not suit the Separatists that the SNP have blood on their hands?

[Dawnrazor]

You're last sentence pretty much nails it, don't worry though, they will be along to blame England soon. 

[superjack]

I seen something earlier about the way drugs deaths are counted on scotland compared to the rest of the UK, not 100% sure on the accuracy though.

Apparently, in Scotland, someone dying from an accident whilst under the influence, this is still counted as a drugs death. The rest of the UK would class that as an accidental death.

[Stewie Griffin]

Interesting that the jump of 27% happened the same year ( 2018 ) that minimum pricing on alcohol was introduced in Scotland. Could there be a link there ?, looking at the table for drug deaths per capita two other countries where alcohol is expensive Sweden and Norway are 3rd and 4th on the list only Estonia between them and Scotland. Obviously I don’t know if this change in minimum pricing is linked but surely it’s something that should be getting looked at as a possible contributing factor to the sudden jump in drug related deaths.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Stewie Griffin

[indianajones]

25 minutes ago, jambos are go! said:

Well over a thousand dead and all over the News. Three times the rate of the rest of the UK. The worst in Europe and worse than the USA. But apparently not worth a thread in the Shed. Not suit the Separatists that the SNP have blood on their hands?

 

Go on then. Explain to me why it is the SNPs or any other political parties fault for individuals shooting shite into their veins? 

 

Junkies have been around longer than the Scottish Parliament ffs. 

 

Edit: felt I was being too nice. Absolutely shite OP. 

 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2019 by indianajones

[Dirty Deeds]

Stats compared to rest of Europe are shocking and disparity between England a surprise. 

 

Is it the junkies from the 80s popping their clogs now or an ongoing problem?

 

Personally and only anecdotally,  I see a lot of drug issues when working in England (Nottingham recently) and superficially things appear no better than home.

 

Clearly a serious problem however and no cheap answers.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Dirty Deeds

[Doctor FinnBarr]

30 minutes ago, jambos are go! said:

Well over a thousand dead and all over the News. Three times the rate of the rest of the UK. The worst in Europe and worse than the USA. But apparently not worth a thread in the Shed. Not suit the Separatists that the SNP have blood on their hands?

 

FFS, don't bring your political agenda against the SNP on here mate, and for what its worth I'll vote for any party that I think supports me and my family's needs

[jack D and coke]

32 minutes ago, jambos are go! said:

Well over a thousand dead and all over the News. Three times the rate of the rest of the UK. The worst in Europe and worse than the USA. But apparently not worth a thread in the Shed. Not suit the Separatists that the SNP have blood on their hands?

27 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

You're last sentence pretty much nails it, don't worry though, they will be along to blame England soon. 

 

 

[jack D and coke]

13 minutes ago, indianajones said:

 

Go on then. Explain to me why it is the SNPs or any other political parties fault for individuals shooting shite into their veins? 

 

Junkies have been around longer than the Scottish Parliament ffs. 

 

Edit: felt I was being too nice. Absolutely shite OP. 

 

 

 

It’s hideous to try and blame any government for this kind of thing. Absolutely embarrassing actually and especially when drug policy is reserved. If the drug workers done what they wanted to do they’d be prosecuted. 

Any and I mean ANY excuse to bash the SNP. 

I mean I don’t know about you but if I couldn’t afford some white lightning anymore I’d just start on the smack too.

Social media is becoming almost unbearable these days it’s all I’ve read all day from stupid ****ing Rangers fans. 

[SpruceBringsteen]

So you're telling me Scotland's the top of the world in something else? What a country. CHAMPIONEES! CHAMPIONEES!

 

[Whatever]

48 minutes ago, jambos are go! said:

Well over a thousand dead and all over the News. Three times the rate of the rest of the UK. The worst in Europe and worse than the USA. But apparently not worth a thread in the Shed. Not suit the Separatists that the SNP have blood on their hands?

 

Absolutely shameless.

[Auld Reekin']

1 hour ago, jambos are go! said:

Well over a thousand dead and all over the News. Three times the rate of the rest of the UK. The worst in Europe and worse than the USA. But apparently not worth a thread in the Shed. Not suit the Separatists that the SNP have blood on their hands?

 

Congratulations: you're now one of the select few on my "Ignored Users" list!

 

[JackLadd]

Glasgow and Dundee the junkie epicentre. 

[XB52]

1 hour ago, Dawnrazor said:

You're last sentence pretty much nails it, don't worry though, they will be along to blame England soon. 

How sad do you have to be to use over a thousand dead to have a go at the SNP 

On the subject, it is a total disgrace and drug laws need to change 

[Dawnrazor]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

 

 

👍

[Dawnrazor]

15 minutes ago, XB52 said:

How sad do you have to be to use over a thousand dead to have a go at the SNP 

On the subject, it is a total disgrace and drug laws need to change 

Not "sad" at all, its a terrible state of affairs, its a dead cert' that some will exoneratd the Scottish government and blame England in someway. 

 

[Del Monty]

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

It’s hideous to try and blame any government for this kind of thing. Absolutely embarrassing actually and especially when drug policy is reserved. If the drug workers done what they wanted to do they’d be prosecuted. 

Any and I mean ANY excuse to bash the SNP. 

I mean I don’t know about you but if I couldn’t afford some white lightning anymore I’d just start on the smack too.

Social media is becoming almost unbearable these days it’s all I’ve read all day from stupid ****ing Rangers fans. 

Pretty ignorant attitude tbh.

 

And it's your social media?? Who are you following, and why??

 

[ri Alban]

We need to take Portugal's example.

 

 

Oh and I'd OD anaw, if I voted naw. The guilt of stockholm would rip the guts right out of me for eternity, knowing I willfully betrayed my Country and fellow Scots.

 

 

 

 

Also, there's an SNP thread, use it.

 

Edited July 17, 2019 by ri Alban

[Cade]

There was no thread because nobody could be ersed with another SNP BAD slanging match thread.

OP has had an absolute shocker.

May as well try to blame the SNP for the huge rise in asbestos deaths in the over 50's.

 

The rise in drugs deaths is attributable to many things. Most are in the over 35 age group, long term addicts who's bodies are finally giving out after decades of abuse.

The totally unregulated "legal" highs are partly to blame. Just because they are not explicitly banned does not mean they are safe.

The sharp rise in quality of the traditional banned drugs may also be to blame. Addicts never know how strong each batch they purchase is going to be until they take it.

Addicts are taking multiple different types of drugs these days too, adding more risk with each different drug they take.

 

If you DO want to get political, we could point out that the SNP tried to establish safe injecting rooms but were blocked by the Home Office.

Also outwith the SNP's control is the short dosing laws, which punish people that miss GP appointments by reducing their dose of methadone or other prescribed drug susbstitute. They then go back on the actual drugs.

The effects of austerity cannot be ignored either. People are suffering and dying due to a reduction in availability of services, from follow-up healthcare to universal credit.

 

Until drugs are legalised and quality controlled by government, the quality of drugs will vary wildly, criminal gangs will continue to dominate and people will keep dying.

 

 

 

[Riddley Walker]

5 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

Not "sad" at all, its a terrible state of affairs, its a dead cert' that some will exoneratd the Scottish government and blame England in someway. 

 

 

Well, drug legislation is decided at Westminster. The latest Scot Government report recommends lots of measures such as introducing safe injection houses etc. But they can't doit because of Westminster regulations. So stop slavering about stuff you've absolutely zero knowledge of and embarassing yourself.

 

There's a huge trend in Scotland at the moment of folk mixing benzos like Valium, Xanax etc. with booze, smack, crack or whatever and the result is a combo that is extremely dangerous. There is also a rise in fentanyl use being detected throughout the UK which, as I'm sure our American dwellers will tell us, is very worrying news.

[jack D and coke]

5 hours ago, Del Monty said:

Pretty ignorant attitude tbh.

 

And it's your social media?? Who are you following, and why??

 

I’ve seen it suggested it was due to the rise in the alcohol tax. Cider no longer cheap enough to get melted on so hit the brown. Seems fair enough to these brain cripples. 

Yeah it’s my social media and I follow

people who are friends etc but Hearts mini huns are as bad with this stuff tbh. Mind numbing stupidity. 

 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2019 by jack D and coke

[superjack]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

There was no thread because nobody could be ersed with another SNP BAD slanging match thread.

OP has had an absolute shocker.

May as well try to blame the SNP for the huge rise in asbestos deaths in the over 50's.

 

The rise in drugs deaths is attributable to many things. Most are in the over 35 age group, long term addicts who's bodies are finally giving out after decades of abuse.

The totally unregulated "legal" highs are partly to blame. Just because they are not explicitly banned does not mean they are safe.

The sharp rise in quality of the traditional banned drugs may also be to blame. Addicts never know how strong each batch they purchase is going to be until they take it.

Addicts are taking multiple different types of drugs these days too, adding more risk with each different drug they take.

 

If you DO want to get political, we could point out that the SNP tried to establish safe injecting rooms but were blocked by the Home Office.

Also outwith the SNP's control is the short dosing laws, which punish people that miss GP appointments by reducing their dose of methadone or other prescribed drug susbstitute. They then go back on the actual drugs.

The effects of austerity cannot be ignored either. People are suffering and dying due to a reduction in availability of services, from follow-up healthcare to universal credit.

 

Until drugs are legalised and quality controlled by government, the quality of drugs will vary wildly, criminal gangs will continue to dominate and people will keep dying.

 

 

 

The problem with your last paragraph is no government, whether Scotland or Westminster, would go down the road of legalising drugs as they are afraid of the votes they think they would lose, especially from older voters.

Forgot to add, I totally agree with your post.

Edited July 17, 2019 by superjack

[Riddley Walker]

Cade's post spot on except all psychoactive substances are already illegal. 

 

I also think drugs should be decriminalised in small amounts and not legalised outright. Safer drugs like MDMA, LSD etc. then maybe, but don't know how socially responsible it would be to sell crack in Tesco. I mean it's some buzz but completely destructive. And the Scottish government would need to start buying off South American drug lords, can't see it going too well.

 

Anyway, Westminster would never decriminalize even if evidence suggests it would be beneficial. Far too backwards thinking.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Riddley Walker

[Cruyff Turn]

The SNP’s fault for a generational problem of smack epidemics in Glasgow and Dundee, did I actually read that?

 

1) Drug policy is controlled by WM.

2) Our borders are supposed to secured by the likes of the Royal Navy and U.K. border control. Smack doesn’t grow in Scotland believe it or not!

3) The smack smuggled into this Country probably comes from Afghanistan, who’s Opium production increased under the UK’s presence. 

 

But it’s the SNP’s fault? 😂

 

Deary me!

[jake]

Scotlands relationship with drugs and alcohol deserves a thread .

Why do we as a country lead the way ?

 

I think the SNP are trying but there are complex reasons .

The use of xanax valium that's bought over the internet mixed with methadone is a particular.

But the wider reasons for our abusive approach to substances isn't simply fixed.

Good topic to discuss .

 

[jake]

4 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

The SNP’s fault for a generational problem of smack epidemics in Glasgow and Dundee, did I actually read that?

 

1) Drug policy is controlled by WM.

2) Our borders are supposed to secured by the likes of the Royal Navy and U.K. border control. Smack doesn’t grow in Scotland believe it or not!

3) The smack smuggled into this Country probably comes from Afghanistan, who’s Opium production increased under the UK’s presence. 

 

But it’s the SNP’s fault? 😂

 

Deary me!

Yes it is astounding the Opiate production you mention.

 

[Des Lynam]

So let’s get this straight....

 

It’s the tories fault for everything but the SNP take the blame for nothing? 

 

Politics would be dead without stupid people. 

[jake]

1 hour ago, Riddley Walker said:

Cade's post spot on except all psychoactive substances are already illegal. 

 

I also think drugs should be decriminalised in small amounts and not legalised outright. Safer drugs like MDMA, LSD etc. then maybe, but don't know how socially responsible it would be to sell crack in Tesco. I mean it's some buzz but completely destructive. And the Scottish government would need to start buying off South American drug lords, can't see it going too well.

 

Anyway, Westminster would never decriminalize even if evidence suggests it would be beneficial. Far too backwards thinking.

Alcohol is legal mate.

We as a country still have a bad relationship with it.

 

 

[Sarah O]

9 hours ago, jambos are go! said:

Well over a thousand dead and all over the News. Three times the rate of the rest of the UK. The worst in Europe and worse than the USA. But apparently not worth a thread in the Shed. Not suit the Separatists that the SNP have blood on their hands?

Clueless.

[graygo]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

We need to take Portugal's example.

 

 

Oh and I'd OD anaw, if I voted naw. The guilt of stockholm would rip the guts right out of me for eternity, knowing I willfully betrayed my Country and fellow Scots.

 

 

 

 

Also, there's an SNP thread, use it.

 

Your first sentence is spot on.

[SE16 3LN]

12 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

The SNP’s fault for a generational problem of smack epidemics in Glasgow and Dundee, did I actually read that?

 

1) Drug policy is controlled by WM.

2) Our borders are supposed to secured by the likes of the Royal Navy and U.K. border control. Smack doesn’t grow in Scotland believe it or not!

3) The smack smuggled into this Country probably comes from Afghanistan, who’s Opium production increased under the UK’s presence. 

 

But it’s the SNP’s fault? 😂

 

Deary me!

Nice try but its a public health issue. The shocker is that Fitzpatrick is blaming Westminster 😯 and in spite of your emoji, it is no laughing matter

[Cruyff Turn]

2 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Nice try but its a public health issue. The shocker is that Fitzpatrick is blaming Westminster 😯 and in spite of your emoji, it is no laughing matter

All facts nonetheless.

[The Real Maroonblood]

10 hours ago, jambos are go! said:

Well over a thousand dead and all over the News. Three times the rate of the rest of the UK. The worst in Europe and worse than the USA. But apparently not worth a thread in the Shed. Not suit the Separatists that the SNP have blood on their hands?

[SE16 3LN]

2 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

All facts nonetheless.

Clearly not but bury your head in the sand and laugh at the problem if that makes you feel better. Bye

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

5 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

All facts nonetheless.

Yes, no matter how they deflect it, English policy is killing people who need help and support. 

Edited July 17, 2019 by Joey J J Jr Shabadoo

[Ray Gin]

I think it's awful how all the SNP MSPs are running around the schemes injecting folk with heroin. Not one of their better policies tbh.  

[Boris]

21 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Nice try but its a public health issue. The shocker is that Fitzpatrick is blaming Westminster 😯 and in spite of your emoji, it is no laughing matter

 

So why can't the Scottish Government introduce safe injecting areas?

 

Oh, because they have to let Westminster allow that.

 

It's not the only solution, but it may help.  Switzerland operate such a system.  I saw a documentary a few years ago about it, CH4 I think, and the results were quite striking.

 

1/3 of users held down full time jobs.

 

1/3 part time work.

 

1/3 did nothing.

 

Not a bad return, I'd say.

 

Equally, Government control and supply of narcotics would perhaps be a better way of dealing (no pun intended) with it.  Take people out of criminality, ensure quality of substance etc.  Again, I think Westminster would have to legislate for that.

 

Personally, I think @Cade's earlier post pretty much nails it.

 

 

[Irufushi]

10 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

You're last sentence pretty much nails it, don't worry though, they will be along to blame England soon. 

 

 

[jack D and coke]

22 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Clearly not but bury your head in the sand and laugh at the problem if that makes you feel better. Bye

See before there was ever any SNP administrations and some parts of Glasgow had life expectancy lower than some African countries because they were drinking themselves and stabbing everyone around them to death whose fault was that? 

[SE16 3LN]

The pathetic attempts at humour from Nationalists and others over this issue is a ****ing disgrace quite frankly. The only response from the Scottish Govt. has been to blame Westminster because Scotland can't legislate. Legislation has very little impact on Drug use and drug deaths and will only make a difference over years, probably decades. The laughable knee jerk reaction to be "more like Portugal" is a joke. Public health and education are the key tools in dealing with the misuse of drugs, illegal, legal or prescribed. The Scottish Govt, SNP and Labour before them, have failed to do this and we are now suffering the consequences. Time to accept that, move on and tackle the issue with the tools that we know will work. 

 

In terms of legislation, decriminalisation would have some positive and negative impacts in the short term but will make no long term difference. We have plenty of evidence from around the world on that one. Legalising all drugs is what we should be looking at.

[IronJambo]

I'm not sure why the ops getting a caning here.

 

The problem might not be the fault of the government but they're clearly not doing enough to deal with it properly. They need to act to improve the situation rather than pretending it isn't so.

[Cruyff Turn]

5 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Yes, no matter how they deflect it, English policy is killing people who need help and support. 

If it never got into this Country, we wouldn’t have a drug problem.

 

96% of Heroin on U.K. streets comes from Afghanistan.

 

79% of The worlds Heroin production comes from Helmand Province where the British forces were based in Afghanistan. A place where Opium production increased under U.K. and US occupation.

 

It comes into the U.K. via Turkey, through Europe, then into English ports via France and the Netherlands.

 

 

Who’s incharge of them? 

 

Yes, the SNP can do more to help addicts and the Scottish police can do more to nail drug dealers but it is not the source of the problem.

 

It’s a very difficult thing to treat Heroin addicts when they are already addicts, and especially when the U.K. government control drugs policy in the U.K. They are not willing to change their policy to the advice given by Academics and Experts. 

 

The main reason for Drugs deaths in Scotland is that the Heroin is cut with all sorts of shit. 

 

Perhaps drug deaths could be cut if safe rooms were introduced and then possibly users were prescribed their heroin in these places, slowly reducing their dosage and getting them into programs where they can eventually get clean. Of course, this would also reduce the spread of HepC and HIV amongst drug users and reduce the dangers to the wider public of disgarded dirty needles. That isn’t rocket science, yet the Scots Gov can’t do any of the above without drug legislation being changed or devolved by the U.K. govt.

[SE16 3LN]

43 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

See before there was ever any SNP administrations and some parts of Glasgow had life expectancy lower than some African countries because they were drinking themselves and stabbing everyone around them to death whose fault was that? 

See my answer below as to why you need to be ashamed of your whatabootery. 

[Des Lynam]

37 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

If it never got into this Country, we wouldn’t have a drug problem.

 

96% of Heroin on U.K. streets comes from Afghanistan.

 

79% of The worlds Heroin production comes from Helmand Province where the British forces were based in Afghanistan. A place where Opium production increased under U.K. and US occupation.

 

It comes into the U.K. via Turkey, through Europe, then into English ports via France and the Netherlands.

 

 

Who’s incharge of them? 

 

Yes, the SNP can do more to help addicts and the Scottish police can do more to nail drug dealers but it is not the source of the problem.

 

It’s a very difficult thing to treat Heroin addicts when they are already addicts, and especially when the U.K. government control drugs policy in the U.K. They are not willing to change their policy to the advice given by Academics and Experts. 

 

The main reason for Drugs deaths in Scotland is that the Heroin is cut with all sorts of shit. 

 

Perhaps drug deaths could be cut if safe rooms were introduced and then possibly users were prescribed their heroin in these places, slowly reducing their dosage and getting them into programs where they can eventually get clean. Of course, this would also reduce the spread of HepC and HIV amongst drug users and reduce the dangers to the wider public of disgarded dirty needles. That isn’t rocket science, yet the Scots Gov can’t do any of the above without drug legislation being changed or devolved by the U.K. govt.

 

So it’s England’s fault? 

 

****ing hell 

 

 

 

 

[Boris]

47 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

The pathetic attempts at humour from Nationalists and others over this issue is a ****ing disgrace quite frankly. The only response from the Scottish Govt. has been to blame Westminster because Scotland can't legislate. Legislation has very little impact on Drug use and drug deaths and will only make a difference over years, probably decades. The laughable knee jerk reaction to be "more like Portugal" is a joke. Public health and education are the key tools in dealing with the misuse of drugs, illegal, legal or prescribed. The Scottish Govt, SNP and Labour before them, have failed to do this and we are now suffering the consequences. Time to accept that, move on and tackle the issue with the tools that we know will work. 

 

In terms of legislation, decriminalisation would have some positive and negative impacts in the short term but will make no long term difference. We have plenty of evidence from around the world on that one. Legalising all drugs is what we should be looking at.

 

Well, at the moment, that's for Westminster to sort out - the Scottish Government is powerless to enact your recommendation.

[jake]

47 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

See before there was ever any SNP administrations and some parts of Glasgow had life expectancy lower than some African countries because they were drinking themselves and stabbing everyone around them to death whose fault was that? 

So what is Scotlands problem?

 

Of course we may blame the SNP and or Westminster.

It still doesnt account for us always topping these stats.

 

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

See my answer below as to why you need to be ashamed of your whatabootery. 

 

Aye I’m ashamed. 

My point was there is many many different reasons as to why Scotland has different problems. I wasn’t meaning blame that government instead I was merely making a point that Scotland has always had serious problems with drink and drugs. Edinburgh was AIDS capital of Europe in the 80’s again whose fault? Was it all hunky dory cos we had unionist politicians calling the shots then?

The desperation to pounce on anything and I mean absolutely anything that occurs up here and blame the SNP is just ludicrous. 

The worst post on the thread is the opening one. 

[jambos are go!]

 Firstly, the main thrust of my post was why the habitual political posters on here had ignored this huge story and that has been virtually ignored. My view is that its because debate on this board is dominated by pro independence zealots with closed minds.

 

I see that some are suggesting  we look to places like Portugal for options. Why don't we look to the rest of the Uk who have policies that could reduce these figures by two thirds? INCLUDING MUCH EARLIER INTERVENTION.

 

BTW I favour decrimilisation and am curious about the possible link to alcohol pricing.

 

 

[SE16 3LN]

1 minute ago, Boris said:

 

Well, at the moment, that's for Westminster to sort out - the Scottish Government is powerless to enact your recommendation.

Read my whole post Boris. I acknowledged that and said why, at this point, it will have little impact anyway. You will be aware that there is a massive movement, even among the right wing press and the Police, for just those changes. At present we need to do what will impact on the ground. I've made it quite clear what I think that should be.

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, jake said:

So what is Scotlands problem?

 

Of course we may blame the SNP and or Westminster.

It still doesnt account for us always topping these stats.

 

There’s always been something wrong with our psyche imo. This hard image has to be upheld. It was drinking and it still is but now we’re also the biggest cokeheads mixed with drink. Why? We love getting wasted I guess🤷🏽‍♂️

I see a change in the younger ones tbh they don’t seem to be quite as bad so maybe it’ll take a generation to see any real changes.