Drugs Emergency Scotland - Why no thread.

[SE16 3LN]

3 hours ago, Cade said:

There was no thread because nobody could be ersed with another SNP BAD slanging match thread.

OP has had an absolute shocker.

May as well try to blame the SNP for the huge rise in asbestos deaths in the over 50's. 

 

The rise in drugs deaths is attributable to many things. Most are in the over 35 age group, long term addicts who's bodies are finally giving out after decades of abuse.

The totally unregulated "legal" highs are partly to blame. Just because they are not explicitly banned does not mean they are safe.

The sharp rise in quality of the traditional banned drugs may also be to blame. Addicts never know how strong each batch they purchase is going to be until they take it.

Addicts are taking multiple different types of drugs these days too, adding more risk with each different drug they take.

 

If you DO want to get political, we could point out that the SNP tried to establish safe injecting rooms but were blocked by the Home Office.

Also outwith the SNP's control is the short dosing laws, which punish people that miss GP appointments by reducing their dose of methadone or other prescribed drug susbstitute. They then go back on the actual drugs.

The effects of austerity cannot be ignored either. People are suffering and dying due to a reduction in availability of services, from follow-up healthcare to universal credit.

 

Until drugs are legalised and quality controlled by government, the quality of drugs will vary wildly, criminal gangs will continue to dominate and people will keep dying.

 

 

 

Why would you use Asbestos as an example? 

 

There are safe places to use drugs all over the UK, mainly chemists and doctors surgeries. The SNP made it political by demanding, through the press, that Westminster legislate on this. If you do that they will come back to bite you on the arse.

 

Yes but much else can be done in the meantime.

[jake]

3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

There’s always been something wrong with our psyche imo. This hard image has to be upheld. It was drinking and it still is but now we’re also the biggest cokeheads mixed with drink. Why? We love getting wasted I guess🤷🏽‍♂️

I see a change in the younger ones tbh they don’t seem to be quite as bad so maybe it’ll take a generation to see any real changes. 

Its young people dying from drugs that's seen the life expectancy in Scotland fall.

It's also through the west that this is more prevalent.

 

 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, jake said:

Its young people dying from drugs that's seen the life expectancy in Scotland fall.

It's also through the west that this is more prevalent.

 

 

Always has been a Glasgow issue. Dundee in the lead these days though. 

Who knows why we have to go further than other areas of the UK. 

[Justin Z]

9 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

Not "sad" at all, its a terrible state of affairs, its a dead cert' that some will exoneratd the Scottish government and blame England in someway. 

 

 

Drug regulation is reserved. So explain why blaming Westminster, not England, as you've strawmanned, would be incorrect. Go ahead, we're all waiting.

 

In fact, I'll go first: Minimum pricing may very well have something to do with it, and the Scottish Government ought to look into the potential for a causative effect there.

 

See how easy that was? Instead of latching onto a ridiculous post, and then doubling down?

[Justin Z]

2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Always has been a Glasgow issue. Dundee in the lead these days though. 

Who knows why we have to go further than other areas of the UK. 

 

Because SNP. As ever.

[Cruyff Turn]

19 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

 

So it’s England’s fault? 

 

****ing hell 

 

 

 

 

Got absolutely **** all to say type post.

[Dawnrazor]

36 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Drug regulation is reserved. So explain why blaming Westminster, not England, as you've strawmanned, would be incorrect. Go ahead, we're all waiting.

 

In fact, I'll go first: Minimum pricing may very well have something to do with it, and the Scottish Government ought to look into the potential for a causative effect there.

 

See how easy that was? Instead of latching onto a ridiculous post, and then doubling down?

👍

[Jamhammer]

10 hours ago, XB52 said:

How sad do you have to be to use over a thousand dead to have a go at the SNP 

On the subject, it is a total disgrace and drug laws need to change 

Drug laws are out with the remit of the Scottish Parliament.

Chickens are coming home to roost for many years of not treating drug use as a public health matter rather than a criminal one.

More prevention and reduction work 10 years ago and we wouldn’t be where we are now.

Someone has to take the bull by the horns and radically change the way drug use is tackled here.

The minimum pricing in alcohol thing is quite interesting. I’d not considered that might be encouraging people to turn to cheap drugs.

 

[Whatever]

6 hours ago, ri Alban said:

We need to take Portugal's example.

 

 

Oh and I'd OD anaw, if I voted naw. The guilt of stockholm would rip the guts right out of me for eternity, knowing I willfully betrayed my Country and fellow Scots.

 

 

 

 

Also, there's an SNP thread, use it.

 

 

 

😂👍🏻

[jack D and coke]

10 minutes ago, Jamhammer said:

Drug laws are out with the remit of the Scottish Parliament.

Chickens are coming home to roost for many years of not treating drug use as a public health matter rather than a criminal one.

More prevention and reduction work 10 years ago and we wouldn’t be where we are now.

Someone has to take the bull by the horns and radically change the way drug use is tackled here.

The minimum pricing in alcohol thing is quite interesting. I’d not considered that might be encouraging people to turn to cheap drugs.

 

Are people actually going down this road? I can’t get white lightning so I’m going to start cooking up for a hit instead?! 

Really?!

Im not clued up on what a bag of that filth costs but surely that’s not happening?

 

[Ribble]

1 hour ago, Boris said:

 

Well, at the moment, that's for Westminster to sort out - the Scottish Government is powerless to enact your recommendation.

 

Whilst true regarding de-criminalising or legalising drugs, it doesn't stop the Scottish Government from directing Police Scotland to prioritise everything over personal drug use/low level dealers and at the same time providing additional funding for drug abuse charities that can then be used to fund clean rooms on top of addiction help and advice.

[Boris]

5 minutes ago, Ribble said:

 

Whilst true regarding de-criminalising or legalising drugs, it doesn't stop the Scottish Government from directing Police Scotland to prioritise everything over personal drug use/low level dealers and at the same time providing additional funding for drug abuse charities that can then be used to fund clean rooms on top of addiction help and advice.

 

Interesting.  I found this

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-37817622

 

regarding a clean room so to speak, but blocked by Westminster.

 

https://www.scotsman.com/news-2-15012/safe-injection-rooms-for-addicts-plan-to-be-refused-by-home-office-1-4749465

 

So it appears clean rooms are a no go?

 

 

[Morph]

19 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Are people actually going down this road? I can’t get white lightning so I’m going to start cooking up for a hit instead?! 

Really?!

Im not clued up on what a bag of that filth costs but surely that’s not happening?

 

£10/20?  Not sure what the price of the big bottles of cider went up to but i'm sure they were close to a tenner.

 

To come out and blame solely WM or Holyrood is a bit daft but what this shows is we desperately need to change our attitudes towards drugs.  Legalising softer drugs like cannabis/mushrooms similar to other countries would free up a lot of police time and create a multi million pound industry overnight which could be taxed and in turn provide more resource to tackle the effects of heroin/opiates on society.

 

This is **** all to do with nationalism or whatever, its a real problem and it's pathetic to try and turn it into some independence thing.

[jack D and coke]

6 minutes ago, Morph said:

£10/20?  Not sure what the price of the big bottles of cider went up to but i'm sure they were close to a tenner.

 

To come out and blame solely WM or Holyrood is a bit daft but what this shows is we desperately need to change our attitudes towards drugs.  Legalising softer drugs like cannabis/mushrooms similar to other countries would free up a lot of police time and create a multi million pound industry overnight which could be taxed and in turn provide more resource to tackle the effects of heroin/opiates on society.

 

This is **** all to do with nationalism or whatever, its a real problem and it's pathetic to try and turn it into some independence thing.

Totally agree mate I despair when these problems descend into yet another bun fight over indy etc. 

I suppose it’s hard to know exactly what causing it but I suppose you shouldn’t ever be that surprised how much some people just want to blow their brains out...but smack?! 

 

[Boris]

17 minutes ago, Morph said:

£10/20?  Not sure what the price of the big bottles of cider went up to but i'm sure they were close to a tenner.

 

To come out and blame solely WM or Holyrood is a bit daft but what this shows is we desperately need to change our attitudes towards drugs.  Legalising softer drugs like cannabis/mushrooms similar to other countries would free up a lot of police time and create a multi million pound industry overnight which could be taxed and in turn provide more resource to tackle the effects of heroin/opiates on society.

 

This is **** all to do with nationalism or whatever, its a real problem and it's pathetic to try and turn it into some independence thing.

 

Agreed - but it does show that important issues slip through the cracks of political system. 

 

8 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Totally agree mate I despair when these problems descend into yet another bun fight over indy etc. 

I suppose it’s hard to know exactly what causing it but I suppose you shouldn’t ever be that surprised how much some people just want to blow their brains out...but smack?! 

 

 

Agree - it seems so irrational to take it.

 

But still folk do, so there must be some underlying reason.

[Riddley Walker]

54 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Are people actually going down this road? I can’t get white lightning so I’m going to start cooking up for a hit instead?! 

Really?!

Im not clued up on what a bag of that filth costs but surely that’s not happening?

 

 

Yeah, it's a totally nonsense made-up argument. The truth is drug deaths have been rising at a fast rate in the last 3 or 4 years. 2017 had the highest death rate ever (until last years) and that was before any impact from the minimum pricing.

 

 IMO it's mainly to do with poly-substance abuse with benzodiazepines. It's become way more prevalent and the streets are flooded with them, absolutely flooded. That's the real issue here. Not really sure who is to blame and I don't think there's a solid answer, however the Scottish mentality doesn't help, and the restrictions imposed by Westminster don't either.

[i8hibsh]

Sturgeon is too busy in prostituting herself (perish the thought) and the country out to insignificant backwater countries and causes to care about anything of worth.

[Boris]

4 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

I think there are probably a few factors that Scotland contributes to increased drug use, over and above the usual. 

 

People will laugh but the climate and day light allowances are a massive contributing factor. It   creates drinking and drug cultures because what else there to do of evening? You can’t do much outside simply because of weather and lack of day light 

 

Whilst simple things such as reduced viatamin d impacts people’s mood in general. 

 

It’s also by in large quite a remote country with a poor infrastructure. This contributes to feelings of isolation and the likes. 

 

Scots are, in general, are quite dour natured and it’s understanable that people look for relief from that. 

 

It’s not unique Scotland you see the phenomenon occur across the world. Undoubtably a lot more complex issues than that but the shitty climate and short days are a underlying issue. 

 

 

SAD

 

Fair points.  A shite climate compounded by a presbyterian societal hangover and poor infrastructure.

 

Throw in post industrial malaise and alienation of the masses and you may be on to something!*

 

*sounds like I'm being glib, but I amn't, honest!

 

 

[Riddley Walker]

4 hours ago, jake said:

Alcohol is legal mate.

We as a country still have a bad relationship with it.

 

 

 

I'm aware of that mate.

 

Alcohol is Scotland's biggest health problem and is on a par with heroin as the most destructive drug around.

[Bridge of Djoum]

Slightly off topic. I’d support and welcome a fully independent Scotland... but is it only me that thinks fervent Scottish Nationalists are the most one-eyed, petty point scoring, English hating, crushing bores? Their arguments also seem to be over-simplistic. 

 

When your love of something is fed and blinded by your hatred of something else, you’re doing it wrong. 

 

On topic... just hope Fentanyl doesn’t become the problem in Scotland as it is here. Just look at the figures for Staten Island as an example of how deadly this stuff is. Police, FDNY and EMS are required to carry Naloxone such is the extent of the issue. 

[i8hibsh]

Just now, Bridge of Djoum said:

Slightly off topic. I’d support and welcome a fully independent Scotland... but is it only me that thinks fervent Scottish Nationalists are the most one-eyed, petty point scoring, English hating, crushing bores? Their arguments also seem to be over-simplistic. 

 

When your love of something is fed and blinded by your hatred of something else, you’re doing it wrong. 

 

 

 

 

That Sir deserves a doff of my cap.  A refreshing pov from a 'Yes' voter.  Voting yes, like voting 'No' is no crime.  Too many people in this country treating them both as such.

 

 

[Locky]

Scotland has struggled with drug culture for decades. Can't say I'm surprised at this news. It's our culture of binge drinking and recreational drug use that's to blame before we go into political debates.

 

Hell, a movie about jagging up is regarded by many as Scotland's best cinematic offering.

[jack D and coke]

35 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

Slightly off topic. I’d support and welcome a fully independent Scotland... but is it only me that thinks fervent Scottish Nationalists are the most one-eyed, petty point scoring, English hating, crushing bores? Their arguments also seem to be over-simplistic. 

 

When your love of something is fed and blinded by your hatred of something else, you’re doing it wrong. 

 

On topic... just hope Fentanyl doesn’t become the problem in Scotland as it is here. Just look at the figures for Staten Island as an example of how deadly this stuff is. Police, FDNY and EMS are required to carry Naloxone such is the extent of the issue. 

I know one lad who is literally obsessed with it and tbh makes a fool of himself because of it but in general I think KB has some very reasoned and sensible posters on Indy. I’m Yes but I’m not hell bent on it and if the people say No then fair enough. I do believe the circumstances have changed since the last one and we’re entitled to ask the question again. 

1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

Sturgeon is too busy in prostituting herself (perish the thought) and the country out to insignificant backwater countries and causes to care about anything of worth.

Then you have this kind of pish and it gets people’s backs up. 

I’m all for sensible discussion about it but a lot of unionists are also utterly blinded with such hatred for the SNP they are every bit as bad as the Yes bores. 

Edited July 17, 2019 by jack D and coke

[Auld Reekin']

2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I know one lad who is literally obsessed with it and tbh makes a fool of himself because of it but in general I think KB has some very reasoned and sensible posters on Indy. I’m Yes but I’m not hell bent on it and if the people say No then fair enough. I do believe the circumstances have changed since the last one and we’re entitled to ask the question again.  

 

Then you have this kind of pish and it gets people’s backs up. 

I’m all for sensible discussion about it but a lot of unionists are also utterly blinded with such hatred for the SNP they are every bit as bad as the Yes bores.   

 

[Morph]

1 hour ago, Boris said:

 

Agreed - but it does show that important issues slip through the cracks of political system. 

 

 

Agree - it seems so irrational to take it.

 

But still folk do, so there must be some underlying reason.

Yeah not saying this isn't an issue that isn't tied into politics.  It's just frustrating when everything goes back to nationalists vs unionists.

 

Scotlands has had a long standing problem with heroin in particular, wish folk on both sides would stop taking shit like this and trying to use it as a stick to beat the other side with.  What Scotland needs is probably some emergency legislation from WM to implement some measures that directly effects the problems that seem to uniquely effect us.  Whether that is safe injecting centres or whatever i don't know but both governments need to put all the shite aside to sort this out.  It is not good for any side to have this happening here.

[Boris]

10 minutes ago, Morph said:

Yeah not saying this isn't an issue that isn't tied into politics.  It's just frustrating when everything goes back to nationalists vs unionists.

 

Scotlands has had a long standing problem with heroin in particular, wish folk on both sides would stop taking shit like this and trying to use it as a stick to beat the other side with.  What Scotland needs is probably some emergency legislation from WM to implement some measures that directly effects the problems that seem to uniquely effect us.  Whether that is safe injecting centres or whatever i don't know but both governments need to put all the shite aside to sort this out.  It is not good for any side to have this happening here.

 

[Ray Gin]

1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

Sturgeon is too busy in prostituting herself (perish the thought) and the country out to insignificant backwater countries and causes to care about anything of worth.

 

Actually she's busy pushing Westminster to devolve more powers over drug laws to the Scottish Government to allow them to tackle the problem and implement new emergency measures.

https://www.snp.org/were-taking-urgent-action-to-tackle-scotlands-drug-emergency/

Edited July 17, 2019 by Ray Gin

[Sexton Hardcastle]

little will change until they look at the bigger picture like awareness, early intervention, harm reduction, homelessness, mental health support, housing, organised crime, policing etc

 

Everything is firmly connected and has all seen funding slashed over the past decade and will only continue to go in that direction.

[Pans Jambo]

Do we really even know what the deaths are from?

Overdosing?

Drug poisoning due to it being cut with other dodgy substances? 

Long periods of abuse and their bodies have gave up?

Other diseases (HIV, Hepatitis etc. due to sharing dirty needles)?

Extreme poverty so not eating properly etc. & still injecting?

Getting addicted whilst in prison and then carrying on when released (Prisons are awash with drugs)?

Old age addicts?

 

Or do we think the reason theres addicts in Scotland is because: 

 

Boredom and unemployment so they start taking drugs?

Cider is now too expensive but a bag of smack is cheap as in comparison (moving from alcohol addiction to drug addiction)?

They were simply "Born a junkie"?

The effin weather?

The effin SNP?

The shitey Scotland football team?

 

Or is it in fact all of the above and much much more? Its a societal problem that cannot be treated as simply a political or a law issue.

 

IMO, this is similar to when Glasgow was the "murder" capital of Europe. The Scottish government decided to treat it as a disease and got various agencies involved (not just the Police, Courts and prisons). This worked and they are now seeing the benefits of this approach. A similar approach needs to happen for this issue however; it IS fair to say the UK Government needs to give the Scottish parliament the tools to do this. Thats not blame, thats just a fact. Devolve whats required for Scotland to do what it needs. Its obviously a very different issue up here and so needs a different approach.

 

Slagging off the SNP for this is the same as blaming them for the piss weather in Scotland. Futile.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Pans Jambo

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

I’m honestly not sure what it is the SNP actually does up there

[Dawnrazor]

7 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

I’m honestly not sure what it is the SNP actually does up there

😂 😂 

[Morph]

1 hour ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Actually she's busy pushing Westminster to devolve more powers over drug laws to the Scottish Government to allow them to tackle the problem and implement new emergency measures.

https://www.snp.org/were-taking-urgent-action-to-tackle-scotlands-drug-emergency/

Have there ever been powers temporarily devolved to try and sort a crisis like this?

[John Findlay]

I don't blame any governments either south or north of the border. I blame the individuals themselves.

[davemclaren]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

I’m honestly not sure what it is the SNP actually does up there

Everything and nothing it seems. 

 

I’m really not sure how to solve the drugs problem. Legalising all drugs worries me but it’s clear that years of making them illegal has resulted in a worse problem.  

[ri Alban]

Heroin was put on the street back in the 60s by the government to keep the people poor.

[Dawnrazor]

4 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Heroin was put on the street back in the 60s by the government to keep the people poor.

OK................. 

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

OK................. 

Dokey................

[davemclaren]

9 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Heroin was put on the street back in the 60s by the government to keep the people poor.

You don’t believe in the moon landings either, do you? 😄

[ri Alban]

Just now, davemclaren said:

You don’t believe in the moon landings either, do you? 😄

Believe? It's fact.

[davemclaren]

Just now, ri Alban said:

Believe? It's fact.

😄

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, John Findlay said:

I don't blame any governments either south or north of the border. I blame the individuals themselves.

This. 

Hard to believe people want to blame all sorts of other reasons for shooting that shite into their veins. 

[Craig Gordons Gloves]

Scotland has a drug problem for a variety of reasons, many of which have been mentioned in other posts.  As far as i can see, there is a correlation between lack of opportunity, lack of a community/social structure, poverty which, along with other factors contribute to an overall lack of hope. In turn, people turn to drugs as a means of escape and the cycle continues, the more drugs you take, the less opportunity you have, the more likely you are to experience poverty and the less hope you have. 

[Салатные палочки]

I'll wager the majority of the deaths are down to the absolutely deadly street diazepam that's doing the rounds. Cheap as chips and up to ten times stronger depending on the batch. Meaning that experienced users are more likely to neck their usual amount unaware of the strength until it's too late.

[Phil Dunphy]

14 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Oh and I'd OD anaw, if I voted naw. The guilt of stockholm would rip the guts right out of me for eternity, knowing I willfully betrayed my Country and fellow Scots.

 

You, sir, are an undiluted arsehole.

 

****ing astonishing you're allowed to make remarks like that.

 

[Cade]

Seems that Embra Coonsil was given £1.4million by the Scottish Government for drug abuse related services but has only spent £100k of that, and is using the other £1.3million as a cash reserve to balance the books

 

[Dawnrazor]

22 minutes ago, Cade said:

Seems that Embra Coonsil was given £1.4million by the Scottish Government for drug abuse related services but has only spent £100k of that, and is using the other £1.3million as a cash reserve to balance the books

 

Nope, you absolutely must be wrong because some on here have said its nothing to do with the Scottish government in anyway and it's Westminster that's at fault and some have called others bad names for even hinting at it😂

 

[Boris]

50 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Nope, you absolutely must be wrong because some on here have said its nothing to do with the Scottish government in anyway and it's Westminster that's at fault and some have called others bad names for even hinting at it😂

 

So the SG are doing something then? Good stuff!

 

If what ECC are doing, then that should be investigated.

[Dawnrazor]

12 minutes ago, Boris said:

So the SG are doing something then? Good stuff!

 

If what ECC are doing, then that should be investigated.

Eh? 

[Boris]

14 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Eh? 

So @Cade has said the SG gave Edinburgh City Council 1.4m quid for drug projects. ECC it is mooted have sat on that cash.

 

So the SG has tried to do something, and if true, then ECC need investigated for not using the funds appropriately.

[Dawnrazor]

3 minutes ago, Boris said:

So @Cade has said the SG gave Edinburgh City Council 1.4m quid for drug projects. ECC it is mooted have sat on that cash.

 

So the SG has tried to do something, and if true, then ECC need investigated for not using the funds appropriately.

Yep, who's in charge of the ec........... never mind 😂