Boris

[Mikey1874]

22 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Can’t wait until post Brexit Britain when we’re all walking around in 3 piece suits bowler hats with a pipe in one hand and a cane in the other. 

 

Debates on things like taxation like we had earlier will surely pale into insignificance by this invitation to debate grammar. A classic surely.

 

 

[Victorian]

From a man of huge wealth who insists on wearing a double breasted jacket and hasn't yet found a tailor who can make one that even nearly fits him.    

[Cruyff Turn]

8 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Debates on things like taxation like we had earlier will surely pale into insignificance by this invitation to debate grammar. A classic surely.

 

 

Did he go to Oxford?

 

Because he obviously doesn’t like the Cambridge way of doing things. 

 

I might be wrong,  but putting a comma after and to create a pause is the Cambridge way of doing things.

 

Oxford comma doesn’t use a comma after and.

[DETTY29]

16 hours ago, Cade said:

Tax havens is not about individual people hiding a few quid offshore.

It's about huge multinationals hiding hundreds of billions offshore.

The UK has nominal control over most of the worst tax havens.

The EU is at the forefront of combating tax havens.

This is what Brexit is about.

In a nutshell.

[DETTY29]

10 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

The fun is starting 

 

 

A thruppeny bit wants to revert to imperial measurements.

[Hasselhoff]

15 hours ago, Cade said:

Boris: "We will not go into new negotiations unless the EU scraps the backstop!!"

 

EU: "We've been telling you lot for months, there will be no more negotiations."

 

Man's a tool.

 

In the Indyref, did you think the UK was final when they said we couldn't go in a currency union with rUK or did you agree with Salmond and think it was just bluster?

[Roxy Hearts]

31 minutes ago, Hasselhoff said:

 

In the Indyref, did you think the UK was final when they said we couldn't go in a currency union with rUK or did you agree with Salmond and think it was just bluster?

Agreed with Salmond. If we ever get independence the pound will struggle hence why the British state needs Scotland. England will be a basket case as it appears to be turning into now. We've been called narrow minded and parochial but now the elite who govern the UK embody it. 

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

21 hours ago, Victorian said:

Let's go full pelt old Etonian / Oxbridge.    Let's give the £80,000+ earners a skip full of tax pounds back.    Let's tie up all that money in additional savings and property & stocks and shares portfolios for the best off.    Let's not bother trying to provide a basic level of public services.     Let's allow the wealthy to accumulate more captive wealth.    Let's not bother with notions of wealth circulating in the economy.

Thought Scotland had it's own power's at Holyrood to set tax brackets? 

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Old Castle Rock said:

Thought Scotland had it's own power's at Holyrood to set tax brackets? 

 

I was speaking in a UK context.

 

Regardless though,   if Johnson was to raise the boundary of basic rate - higher rate from £50,000 to something like £80,000 (it seems unlikely but it was mentioned),   it is such a large divergence from the Scottish bands that it would be absolutely necessary for the Scottish government to follow suit.     Reasonable or moderate divergence between rates and bands is something which can exist,   but differences of that scale represent a completely unsustainable 'competitive advantage'.

 

In a world when the Tories make a tax giveaway of that nature,    Scotland is hamstrung into passing it on here.

[indianajones]

See this high speed rail that's getting built and the new extra one that's been announced for the 'north' between Leeds and Manchester, our taxes are being spent on that right? Our as in the Scottish people's. 

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, indianajones said:

See this high speed rail that's getting built and the new extra one that's been announced for the 'north' between Leeds and Manchester, our taxes are being spent on that right? Our as in the Scottish people's. 

 

Macro capital investment results in additional consequential funding for the devolved budgets.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Victorian

[Cade]

1 hour ago, Hasselhoff said:

 

In the Indyref, did you think the UK was final when they said we couldn't go in a currency union with rUK or did you agree with Salmond and think it was just bluster?

Nobody had even opened negotiations about that. It was all theoretical.

The EU Withdrawal Agreement has been negotiated for several years.

It's a done deal.

The EU is not going to re-open negotiations just because the Tories changed personnel.

 

There is going back on what is merely said in passing during canvassing.

Then there is going back on an actual legally binding document forged over years of tough negotiations.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Cade

[Hasselhoff]

Scotland agreement

1 hour ago, Cade said:

There is going back on what is merely said in passing during canvassing.

Then there is going back on an actual legally binding document forged over years of tough negotiations.

 

The Scotland Agreement said that the result of the 2014 independence referendum would be respected by both sides and the SNP has gone back on that despite the binding document being the result of several years of negotiations. 

 

The EU withdrawal agreement hasn't been signed by anyone yet. It was agreed on principle but hasn't been signed as Westminster hasn't approved it. It is simply a proposal document at the moment so the UK can propose something new now that there is someone else in charge. 

[Justin Z]

20 minutes ago, Hasselhoff said:

Scotland agreement

 

The Scotland Agreement said that the result of the 2014 independence referendum would be respected by both sides and the SNP has gone back on that despite the binding document being the result of several years of negotiations.

 

Can you check your sources? I've never heard of a document called the Scotland Agreement.

[Hasselhoff]

7 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Can you check your sources? I've never heard of a document called the Scotland Agreement.

 

Sorry, the Edinburgh Agreement

[Francis Albert]

On ‎25‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 20:57, Costanza said:

So much to disagree with here....
A "soundbite" - So all the economic warnings (OBR - a benign no deal would plunge economy into recession), the warnings to to business cited by the CBI, TUC, Farming Industry, Car Industry, Road Haulage Industry,  Financial Sector (how many billions have already left the economy?), NHS, Supermarkets, Research Industry are all just soundbites.

The above OBR forecast is a non-disorderly Brexit btw. A disorderly one would have a huge short term impact but I guess if GDP is lower and borrowing higher in 15 years, all the people impacted will be comforted knowing that as long as the government spends the smaller pot better, it won't be that bad...

If you have some analysis that says a no deal is perfectly manageable, then feel free to provide it for comparison.

 

"Ruling out no deal is and always was a mistake" - I laugh when I hear people saying that in negotiations you should always be prepared to walk away. Aye, to the status quo, not a position that makes you worse off!

The EU has done plenty planning for no deal and more than us (we are way behind according to civil servants), so I'd like to see the analysis that says they will be hit harder than us, especially when they will still have all their trade deals whilst we will be missing some still not rolled over and industries like farming decimated by WTO tariffs.

However, if you have some analysis to allay my fears, again please send my way...

 

"Those quitting in an attempt to rule out no deal are at best acting prematurely, at worst just promoting Remain." - Er no, they voted for the Withdrawal Agreement so voted for Brexit unlike the Brexit purists like the ERG but in principle, will vote against what they perceive to be damaging to the country. 

 

"May/EU deal and no deal (which better "respects" the first referendum vote) "- A no deal was never talked about seriously in the referendum and with 48 % and 16 million voting remain, a the referendum was in effect a soft Leave vote, in the same way 52% Remain would have meant stay but reform essential in the British relationship with the EU.

 

For me, a new referendum should be :

1 - Should the UK Leave the EU? If Yes, go to 2, if No, we Remain

2 - Should the UK leave the EU with a) The Agreed Withdrawal Agreement b) a deal like Norway and EEA c) Canada style Plus d) No Deal (actually I wouldn't have this on but some personally feel it would be democratic to do so).

 

After the Referendum, I would want a bill signed to prevent another referendum for a decade to avoid the continual agitation , disagreement and uncertainty.

Far from perfect and it will never happen but surely better than the current paralysis in Parliament.

 

 

 

The throwing around of "headline" phrases like "an act of economic vandalism" in isolation is what I meant by "sound-bite".

 

You make arguments which go beyond that sound-bite which is welcome as so much of the "debate" consists of sound-bites. Boris as PM will of course exacerbate that.

 

I mistrust forecasts of GDP growth nearly 20 years out (however "expert") which come up with single average numbers with no indication of the uncertainties and the impact of changes in assumptions. GDP forecasts are notoriously unreliable even a quarter or two ahead. I also think using GDP growth as a measure of prosperity (or a necessary requirement for of achieving prosperity) is outdated, if it ever was the best measure. To take just one example - climate change - the impact of seriously addressing the issue and even more so the impact of continuing to fail to seriously address it (of which all administrations everywhere have been guilty) will far outweigh the impact of Brexit on GDP. You mock the impact of redistribution but a reversal of decades long growing concentration of wealth would do more to benefit most of he population than remaining in the EU. If you actually take a wider view of the world economy (as surely good internationalists like EU fans should) the continuance of a protectionist rich man's club is also perhaps not the answer to global inequalities, especially as climate change exacerbates those.

 

If you are unwilling to walk away in a negotiation it is probably best not to enter a negotiation. As for a narrow remain win how would we have stayed and achieved "reform essential in the British relationship with the EU"? Asked nicely?

 

As for your new referendum structure question 1 is just a rerun of the last referendum. Question 2 is far too complicated - if people failed to understand Q1 what hope is there of a sensible answer to Q2?

 

I agree referenda should not be regular events (in fact I wouldn't have them at all). But if there is to be a moratorium on further referenda after one has been held, the 40 years that elapsed between the first and second EU referendums seems about right.

 

Edited July 27, 2019 by Francis Albert

[Justin Z]

Just now, Hasselhoff said:

 

Sorry, the Edinburgh Agreement

 

Ah okay.

 

I don't think that was negotiated for years. Negotiations only occurred after Westminster passed the Scotland Act 2012 in May of that year, and Salmond and Cameron met for a single day on 15 October. There is debate over whether the Edinburgh Agreement has any sort of legally binding effect, and I would argue it does not, but rather that it was a memorialisation of what was discussed. Law still had to be passed by the Scottish Parliament that received royal assent to set out the parameters of the referendum. The Scottish Independence Referendum Act 2013 says nothing about the result being binding for X amount of time.

The Smith Commission following the referendum spent a lot more time hashing things out--they met for over a month between October and November 2014. Westminster's disregard for the Scotland Act 2016, born from that commission, in which it agreed in law not to "normally legislate with regard to devolved matters without the consent of Scottish Parliament", and instead shut the Scottish Parliament out of EU withdrawal negotiations, which touch a litany of devolved matters--I would argue that constitutes a lack of respect for the result, for the devolved Scottish Parliament, and contempt for the democratic will of the Scottish electorate. If those aren't grounds to respond politically, I'm not sure what would be.

[I P Knightley]

16 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Did he go to Oxford?

 

Because he obviously doesn’t like the Cambridge way of doing things. 

 

I might be wrong,  but putting a comma after and to create a pause is the Cambridge way of doing things.

 

Oxford comma doesn’t use a comma after and.

I always understood the 'Oxford comma' to be one which appeared beside "and" when it was at the end of a list. So you have commas or semi-colons separating the items in that list and then, when you get to the last item, you use "and" but with a comma. I'm having a mental block at the moment and can't hink whether the Oxford comma is before or after the "and".

7 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

A thruppeny bit wants to revert to imperial measurements.

A pre-decimalisation term to describe a pro-imperial-measurementist.

 

I don't think I've ever been so proud of being a JKB member!

 

Consider it stolen, of course!

6 hours ago, indianajones said:

See this high speed rail that's getting built and the new extra one that's been announced for the 'north' between Leeds and Manchester, our taxes are being spent on that right? Our as in the Scottish people's. 

Yup! And my taxes down here in London, too.

[redjambo]

3 hours ago, I P Knightley said:

I always understood the 'Oxford comma' to be one which appeared beside "and" when it was at the end of a list. So you have commas or semi-colons separating the items in that list and then, when you get to the last item, you use "and" but with a comma. I'm having a mental block at the moment and can't hink whether the Oxford comma is before or after the "and".

 

Green, blue, and yellow.

[Cruyff Turn]

3 hours ago, I P Knightley said:

I always understood the 'Oxford comma' to be one which appeared beside "and" when it was at the end of a list. So you have commas or semi-colons separating the items in that list and then, when you get to the last item, you use "and" but with a comma. I'm having a mental block at the moment and can't hink whether the Oxford comma is before or after the "and".

 

Here we go, it is a Cambridge vs Oxford thing and Moog went to Oxford so it’s one uppery at it’s finest.😄

 

Although Oxford took home yesterday’s trophy in the 159th Boat Race, today it seems that Cambridge has something to crow about: it’s being reported in the London Herald that Cambridge University has announced its introduction of the “Cambridge comma”. Rivaling the contentious Oxford comma, which – after the apostrophe – is probably the most divisive punctuation mark in the English language (see Glossophilia’s earlier post on the Oxford comma here), the Cambridge comma introduces a punctuated pause AFTER the word “and“ in lists — ie. before the final list item, with Oxford already having staked its claim to the prime position before the “and”.

An example of the new Cambridge comma illustrates the unexpectedly belated verbal interruption that it offers: “He packed up his books, cigars, teddy bears and, slippers.” Oxford’s remains more predictably timely: “He packed up his gowns, pipes, long-johns, and ties.”

Oxford and Cambridge have enjoyed an infamous but healthy rivalry for centuries, dating back to when they were the only two universities in England and Wales. Competition between the “Oxbridge” institutions is most famously characterized by the annual boat race, which takes place on a four-mile stretch of the River Thames. Now the colleges will have one more thing — in addition to the best cox and crew, the most famous alumni, the best academic ranking, the most renowned theatrical society — over which to compete: the relative value of their respective serial comma positions. Are you an Oxford comma kind of character, or a Cambridge comma cat?

A spokesman for Cambridge University was quoted in the London Herald remarking on this new role for the ever versatile comma: “Cambridge is proud to add a new, dynamic and, pause-worthy role to the most widely-used and abused punctuation mark in the English language. We look forward to seeing it flourish in literature, text messages and, IMs as we encourage the world to take an added pause.” Read the full London Herald article here.

 

https://www.glossophilia.org/?p=2618

[Jambo, Goodbye]

14 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

Ah okay.

 

I don't think that was negotiated for years. Negotiations only occurred after Westminster passed the Scotland Act 2012 in May of that year, and Salmond and Cameron met for a single day on 15 October. There is debate over whether the Edinburgh Agreement has any sort of legally binding effect, and I would argue it does not, but rather that it was a memorialisation of what was discussed. Law still had to be passed by the Scottish Parliament that received royal assent to set out the parameters of the referendum. The Scottish Independence Referendum Act 2013 says nothing about the result being binding for X amount of time.

The Smith Commission following the referendum spent a lot more time hashing things out--they met for over a month between October and November 2014. Westminster's disregard for the Scotland Act 2016, born from that commission, in which it agreed in law not to "normally legislate with regard to devolved matters without the consent of Scottish Parliament", and instead shut the Scottish Parliament out of EU withdrawal negotiations, which touch a litany of devolved matters--I would argue that constitutes a lack of respect for the result, for the devolved Scottish Parliament, and contempt for the democratic will of the Scottish electorate. If those aren't grounds to respond politically, I'm not sure what would be.

 

Great post!

[Jambo, Goodbye]

Boris and Trump's Deadliest Trick

 

Interesting 11 minute video narrated by Stephen Fry.

[Mikey1874]

After a couple of days and reflecting on the Mogg rules...what are people's views on a double space after full stops? 

 

(Btw - There is no question, the Oxford comma is staying at least when I write.) 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Mikey1874

[RobboM]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

After a couple of days and reflecting on the Mogg rules...what are people's views on a double space after full stops? 

 

(Btw - There is no question, the Oxford comma is staying at least when I write.) 

Just whom the **** does he think he is???

[The Real Maroonblood]

7 minutes ago, RobboM said:

Just whom the **** does he think he is???

He’s from the Victorian era.

[Mikey1874]

Again, reflecting on it I think Boris is going to have UK leave the EU on 31 October, while trying to arrange as many agreements to avoid worst impacts if a Deal isn't agreed by Parliament. 

 

Election in March / May 2020 giving him enough time to pull rug from more popular Corbyn policies mostly around investment.  

Edited July 28, 2019 by Mikey1874

[DETTY29]

47 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

After a couple of days and reflecting on the Mogg rules...what are people's views on a double space after full stops? 

 

(Btw - There is no question, the Oxford comma is staying at least when I write.) 

Simpler to read the break between sentences a bit more coherently.

 

It's a little like shorter paragraphs nowadays that previously may have been combined.

 

Society and language moves on.

 

Society has greater things to worry about like how potentially in the space of a 5 year period we may go from an extra £350m a week being available for the NHS to having to strike a trade deal where the UK and the NHS is up for grabs and the people that benefit most will be Farage's backers and JRM's old Etonians of this world.

 

This is just a first of many a deflection tactic by JRM to take up time and space to ridicule him so we ignore how unpatriotic he is by denying the UK Treasury of millions of pounds a year with his offshore wealth where there is no reason it couldn't remain in the UK.  *And this figure runs in to billions across all his cronies.  With him being Leader of the House expect a hell of a lot more of this deflectionery tactic.

 

*Has JRM state that a sentence cannot start with And?

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by DETTY29

[SwindonJambo]

Boris is seemingly enjoying a big bounce in the opinion polls with Hard Brexiteer Tory votes returning to the Tories with his ‘No Deal’ talk and it’s little doubt it was part of his plan to appeal to those voters. They now seem to be the biggest party on 30 odd percent. The same polls are saying Labour would lead if they replaced Corbyn so it really is imperative that they do so. When will they ever learn that going that far left will not win elections? Someone like Kier Starmer or Yvette Cooper in charge would surely give them a fighting chance of winning?

 

 

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/boris-johnson/news/105610/tories-enjoy-boris-johnson

[Mikey1874]

I'm going to try out the 2 space thing after full stops.  See how it goes.

 

Not keen but why not. 

[SpruceBringsteen]

26 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

When will they ever learn that going that far left will not win elections?

 

Probably about the same time people stop incorrectly labelling him far left*

 

Spoiler

*Unless all definitions are updated, and - for instance - Marx becomes officially known as "really, really far left", Stalin "super crazy wow far left" and Mao "aw s*** you ain't going to believe this guy left"

 

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, SpruceBringsteen said:

 

Probably about the same time people stop incorrectly labelling him far left*

 

  Hide contents

*Unless all definitions are updated, and - for instance - Marx becomes officially known as "really, really far left", Stalin "super crazy wow far left" and Mao "aw s*** you ain't going to believe this guy left"

 

 

No one I ask can actually name the so called 'far left' policies they object to from what is pretty moderate programme.

 

Their problem is Boris will undermine them by matching most of their policies particularly around investment. 

[SpruceBringsteen]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

No one I ask can actually name the so called 'far left' policies they object to from what is pretty moderate programme.

 

Their problem is Boris will undermine them by matching most of their policies particularly around investment. 

 

Because the fat mess and his lads over here have decided to weaponize the centre right democrats as "HARD LEFT COMMIES", the idiots in the UK have decided to follow like wee lambs. It's fairly tragic tbh.

[ri Alban]

Magic money trees!!!!!

 

 

Austerity bingo!!!

 

Debt and deficit!!!

 

 

 

 

 

[Cade]

Labour are so "dangerously far left" that the Tories have been stealing their economic policies for the last ten years, including after JC became leader.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Cade

[maroonlegions]

And some tories on hear actually believe that after 10 YEARS of Tory Austerity on the poor, and public services, including  brutal TARGETED VITAL social care  cuts  on the poorest elderly ,NHS , police and  education that they are the party of the MANY.

 

That they have had the concerns of the least well off, regardless of social status   and  that the FEW are vital for the MANYS welfare and prosperity.

 

Wealthiest 10% cash in as average family income falls

 HMRC data showed more than 90% of unearned income is skewed towards just 6-7%of the population. 

The “unearned income” of the most well-off people in Britain more than doubled while millions endured austerity and stagnant wages, an Observer Analysis of government data reveals.

 

Income from property, interest, dividends and other investment income – sometimes called unearned income, as most of it does not come directly from work – rose by more than 40% between 2010-11 and 2015-16, the most recent year for which HMRC figures are available.

 

The data only counts individual UK taxpayers, and excludes those who did not receive any investment income – between a quarter and a third of the population, meaning the highest gains are even more concentrated at the top. Meanwhile, average weekly earnings from paid employment fell in real terms between 2010 and 2016, so most people’s jobs were not paying enough to keep up with the cost of living. Benefit cuts worsened the impact on the poorest.

 

Any yet Boris has openly stated tax cuts for the wealthy.

 

Its a feckiing CON. A con by snake oil salesmen disguised as caring "all in it together" politicians .

 

The Tory Con of the last ten years and the present cons by old bojo Boris goes one way, that is to continually fill the pockets of the wealthy  and feck the rest. And some say it's all down to human nature in the end,  it's just all about self preservation and feather the nest instinct and it will never change . Bullshite.It can change under Corbyn.

 

It's all about a change of heart, a change of giving a feck about those in our society that are in real hardship, including those in WORK poverty because of 10 years of wage stagnation while the top % get richer.

 

A change of perspective that can and will bring about a fairer and more caring society , outwith politics that is were the change is coming and  is manifesting, people are just plain fed up of being labeled  radicals, loony lefties, dreamers and unrealistic from those that have always never been  in positions of real  hardship outwith their control, be that mental or physical health problems, or at the bottom of the plie.    

 

Those in their ivory towers will always BLAME those at the bottom if they start fighting back at injustices and there are many in the ten years of Tory draconian Austerity.  

 

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by maroonlegions

[Mikey1874]

Labour governments just balance things out a little bit inbetween the normal Tory rule looking after and ensuring those with privilege maintain their advantages. 

[maroonlegions]

 

 

 

[micole]

So Boris comes to Scotland today, announcing an extra £300 million for Scotland, Wales & Nth Ireland. That should keep us quiet eh, a wee sweetener to keep the natives happy...😏😏

[The Real Maroonblood]

21 minutes ago, micole said:

So Boris comes to Scotland today, announcing an extra £300 million for Scotland, Wales & Nth Ireland. That should keep us quiet eh, a wee sweetener to keep the natives happy...😏😏

What a ****.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

39 minutes ago, micole said:

So Boris comes to Scotland today, announcing an extra £300 million for Scotland, Wales & Nth Ireland. That should keep us quiet eh, a wee sweetener to keep the natives happy...😏😏

Snake oil salesman!

[Norm]

Does he mention the £3.6 billion earmarked for English towns? 

[Jambo, Goodbye]

1 hour ago, micole said:

So Boris comes to Scotland today, announcing an extra £300 million for Scotland, Wales & Nth Ireland. That should keep us quiet eh, a wee sweetener to keep the natives happy...😏😏

According to the BBC, that money was in the pipeline before Boris even became PM.

 

It also falls a little short of the 100 towns in England getting 3.6 billion. 

 

Never mind,  better together 🙄

[micole]

2 minutes ago, Jambo, Goodbye said:

According to the BBC, that money was in the pipeline before Boris even became PM.

 

It also falls a little short of the 100 towns in England getting 3.6 billion. 

 

Never mind,  better together 🙄

Yup seen that, bet you Boris won't mention it though.....😉

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

What a ****.

 

[Cade]

Booed loudly as he arrived at Bute House.

 

Left by the back door after his meeting with Nicola.

 

What a pathetic little scrote of a man.

[Cruyff Turn]

17 minutes ago, Cade said:

Booed loudly as he arrived at Bute House.

 

Left by the back door after his meeting with Nicola.

 

What a pathetic little scrote of a man.

Theresa May had bigger baws than Johnson. 

[Cruyff Turn]

 

[jack D and coke]

Imagine turning up to boo him....

What a riddy. 

[Arse 'Friends' Dyslexic?]

37 minutes ago, Cade said:

Booed loudly as he arrived at Bute House.

 

Left by the back door after his meeting with Nicola.

 

What a pathetic little scrote of a man.

 

Brave Sir Boris ran away.
Bravely ran away away...
 

[manaliveits105]

Some weirdos amongst the booers - Jimmy Crankies am no playin face also embarrassing for a supposed politician