Gaffer on young guns

[Clerry Jambo]

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/sport/football/craig-levein-hearts-exciting-team-16236410

[Jodami]

Disappointed, was hoping for an appraisal of George Michael's early songwriting. 

[Bull's-eye]

moan moan grizzle grizzle moan. 

[Bauld]

Strengthening academies and developing youth is probably Leveins greatest strength.

 

If we want to compete with celtic it won't be financially. But it can be done from having an excellent academy and mixing it with experienced pros who have been there and done it, like Naismith.

 

Basically the Ajax model although they have a pretty substantial budget to play with as well.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Bauld

[Heartsofgold]

34 minutes ago, Bauld said:

Strengthening academies and developing youth is probably Leveins greatest strength.

 

If we want to compete with celtic it won't be financially. But it can be done from having an excellent academy and mixing it with experienced pros who have been there and done it, like Naismith.

 

Basically the Ajax model although they have a pretty substantial budget to play with as well.

 

If we can produce a fraction of the talent that the Ajax model has done over the years then I will be delighted.

[King Joffrey]

The Ajax model? Do people go to the pub before posting? Levein is the jam tomorrow guy on every front. 

 

Our reserves are 7th I think. Cochrane is 18 and guys like Turnbull and Hastie at Motherwell are first XI every week and million pound plus players performing at that level consistently. 

 

We brought in guys like Wighton and Burns and Mulraney and Shaugnessey because we have nothing coming through of any note. Even Keena can't get match time in a Hearts team that is the worst in the league for goals from open play. 

 

I sound beaten and negative because I am. Levein promises and promises and delivers nothing. Dragging it all out til retirement. I have as much faith in our youth system as I do our recruitment. But Budge fans talk of restructuring and investment in the academy. I deal in proof. Where is it?

 

I hope Cochrane makes it but remember he was the Gilmour understudy at Rangers and let go for not being good enough. 

 

I've been brought up on youngsters making the first team like McLaren or Naysmith. Where's that quality? Nowhere. Godinho and Brandon are 21 and 22 next month. By this stage they should be first team or off to Dunfermline. 

 

I honestly think if every player in Scotland was fit we'd be one of maybe two SPL first teams with no academy player in it. But Levein says hold on, give it 3 years, like the recruitment and new flair players, (like the stand for that matter but that's another thread), like everything. Jam tomorrow.

 

Ajax? Puh-lease.

 

Get shot and let's get new management in at all levels.

[Jodami]

59 minutes ago, Bauld said:

Strengthening academies and developing youth is probably Leveins greatest strength.

 

If we want to compete with celtic it won't be financially. But it can be done from having an excellent academy and mixing it with experienced pros who have been there and done it, like Naismith.

 

Basically the Ajax model although they have a pretty substantial budget to play with as well.

The Ajax model has the team playing exactly the same method at every age group. Can you see the flaw in our plans?

[Jamhammer]

How much time is CL realistically going to have to put them in the first team though? I've been disappointed this season that youngsters haven't been used more bearing in mind how short we've been at times. It may well be that CL believes putting youngsters in a struggling team won't help them but they give us an energy that some of the senior players just don't. I've liked the look of Zanatta and Keena when I've seen them. I've heard great things about Currie and MacDonald. I hope we get to see more of them

[jambogemz]

7 minutes ago, King Joffrey said:

The Ajax model? Do people go to the pub before posting? Levein is the jam tomorrow guy on every front. 

 

Our reserves are 7th I think. Cochrane is 18 and guys like Turnbull and Hastie at Motherwell are first XI every week and million pound plus players performing at that level consistently. 

 

We brought in guys like Wighton and Burns and Mulraney and Shaugnessey because we have nothing coming through of any note. Even Keena can't get match time in a Hearts team that is the worst in the league for goals from open play. 

 

I sound beaten and negative because I am. Levein promises and promises and delivers nothing. Dragging it all out til retirement. I have as much faith in our youth system as I do our recruitment. But Budge fans talk of restructuring and investment in the academy. I deal in proof. Where is it?

 

I hope Cochrane makes it but remember he was the Gilmour understudy at Rangers and let go for not being good enough. 

 

I've been brought up on youngsters making the first team like McLaren or Naysmith. Where's that quality? Nowhere. Godinho and Brandon are 21 and 22 next month. By this stage they should be first team or off to Dunfermline. 

 

I honestly think if every player in Scotland was fit we'd be one of maybe two SPL first teams with no academy player in it. But Levein says hold on, give it 3 years, like the recruitment and new flair players, (like the stand for that matter but that's another thread), like everything. Jam tomorrow.

 

Ajax? Puh-lease.

 

Get shot and let's get new management in at all levels.

Keena is out for the season .

[Bridge of Djoum]

Young Guns???

 

I'd prefer this serial loser focuses on the future of the club than critiquing very good movies from the 80's.

 

Sort this clown out, mad Budge!

[rudi must stay]

1 hour ago, Jodami said:

Disappointed, was hoping for an appraisal of George Michael's early songwriting. 

http://youtu.be/doZ6wOJHu_E

 

***** IMO

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Interesting piece on the BBC about Norwich. Sorry no time to post link, if someone can, or head on to the BBC Championship pages, its basically about binning 30+ and taking a long term approach to fixing your team around talented young players.

 

Feel we are trying to get there but stuck in purgatory until it comes off

[Bridge of Djoum]

3 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Interesting piece on the BBC about Norwich. Sorry no time to post link, if someone can, or head on to the BBC Championship pages, its basically about binning 30+ and taking a long term approach to fixing your team around talented young players.

 

Feel we are trying to get there but stuck in purgatory until it comes off

Stand by for a 7,000 word synopsis from our resident Norwich expert.

 

 

 

 

Unless the piece is about the pedestrianisation of Norwich City Centre.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Bridge of Djoum

[siegementality]

To be honest if Levein told me it was raining outside I’d look out the window to check for myself!!

 

Levein seems “excited” about what the team will be like 5 years from now but hasn’t got the ability to give us a team worth watching now. Jam tomorrow indeed.

[siegementality]

2 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

Stand by for a 7,000 word synopsis from our resident Norwich expert.

 

 

 

 

Unless the piece is about the pedestrianisation of Norwich City Centre.

Then it’ll be 9000 words long!!!

[TexasAndy]

There's an awfy lot of folk with a lot of time on their hands.

[Cade]

So how come the first team is relying on half broken dodgy second chance players and not letting the young guns show what they can do?

Ever since we got relegated we've been giving youth a chance and benefitting from it.

That's stalled under CL's recent obsession with gambling on incomers.

[Bridge of Djoum]

4 minutes ago, siegementality said:

Then it’ll be 9000 words long!!!

Oh man. Don't encourage him.

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Bridge of Djoum

[Bull's-eye]

Get the young guns in and get relegated. 

 

Nobody cares anymore and preferred the Championship where you win every week anyway.

[Jodami]

6 minutes ago, Artful Dodger said:

Get the young guns in and get relegated. 

 

Nobody cares anymore and preferred the Championship where you win every week anyway.

Ah, a ray of sunshine... 

[gowestjambo]

Sheer Deflection, nothing more. Exciting Young Talent dont make me laugh!. There is not one area of his management that reaches mediocrity never mind satisfactory.

 

So just let him pick up his inflated wages until eventually the young players come good? This is a man who admitted he did not know how to get the team to score goals without a Target Man. Uche finally comes back and we still can't score goals.

 

Our tactics are nothing short of disgraceful, his current body language would not inspire a soul and the majority of his signings would have seen him booted out from any other club.

 

The longer he is associated with our team, the longer it will be to recover from his complete mismanagement of the Football Department.

[Morph]

Good to see him backing the young guys publicly.

 

Must be a big confidence boost when you read the manager speaking well about you in the papers.  Hopefully that Smith lad kicks on, looked good for a spell against hibs.

[rudi must stay]

4 minutes ago, Jodami said:

Ah, a ray of sunshine... 

 

The above poster would perhaps not like the reality of his post. And it would be his own fault, this forum carries that much sway with Levein and his coaching team

[Jodami]

1 minute ago, rudi must stay said:

 

The above poster would perhaps not like the reality of his post. And it would be his own fault, this forum carries that much sway with Levein and his coaching team

Tbh Rudi it was a cheap Wham gag!

[fabienleclerq]

It's a good interview, no surprise it's met with negativity here though. 

 

I get the feeling we won't appreciate CL influence behind the scenes until he is gone. It could be like when Bobby Williamson set the foundations for hibs to bring through Brown etc and Mowbray benefitted. 

[Jodami]

3 minutes ago, Morph said:

Good to see him backing the young guys publicly.

 

Must be a big confidence boost when you read the manager speaking well about you in the papers.  Hopefully that Smith lad kicks on, looked good for a spell against hibs.

He did look good mate. In an ideal world he looked like a player who could be directly mentored by Naismith, he could easily play in the same position. 

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, Bauld said:

Strengthening academies and developing youth is probably Leveins greatest strength.

 

If we want to compete with celtic it won't be financially. But it can be done from having an excellent academy and mixing it with experienced pros who have been there and done it, like Naismith.

 

Basically the Ajax model although they have a pretty substantial budget to play with as well.

 

It’s also good that we are doing it first, before any other club has considered this ??????

[King Joffrey]

1 hour ago, jambogemz said:

Keena is out for the season .

 

Yeah admit I should have been clearer was more referring to fact he's also 20 and been nowhere near a likely first team member other than in dire needs. Young players should be coming through about 18 or 19 and established or moved on by 20 to 21. I do actually like Keena but he's going to be 21 before pushing for real consideration. Cosgrove is 22 and been Aberdeen starting centre forward for a year. 

[Stephen Muddie]

1 hour ago, King Joffrey said:

The Ajax model? Do people go to the pub before posting? Levein is the jam tomorrow guy on every front. 

 

Our reserves are 7th I think. Cochrane is 18 and guys like Turnbull and Hastie at Motherwell are first XI every week and million pound plus players performing at that level consistently. 

 

We brought in guys like Wighton and Burns and Mulraney and Shaugnessey because we have nothing coming through of any note. Even Keena can't get match time in a Hearts team that is the worst in the league for goals from open play. 

 

I sound beaten and negative because I am. Levein promises and promises and delivers nothing. Dragging it all out til retirement. I have as much faith in our youth system as I do our recruitment. But Budge fans talk of restructuring and investment in the academy. I deal in proof. Where is it?

 

I hope Cochrane makes it but remember he was the Gilmour understudy at Rangers and let go for not being good enough. 

 

I've been brought up on youngsters making the first team like McLaren or Naysmith. Where's that quality? Nowhere. Godinho and Brandon are 21 and 22 next month. By this stage they should be first team or off to Dunfermline. 

 

I honestly think if every player in Scotland was fit we'd be one of maybe two SPL first teams with no academy player in it. But Levein says hold on, give it 3 years, like the recruitment and new flair players, (like the stand for that matter but that's another thread), like everything. Jam tomorrow.

 

Ajax? Puh-lease.

 

Get shot and let's get new management in at all levels.

This. Levein is better at PR than he is at winning matches. I've always respected him but I'm running out of fecks for anything he says.

[Bauld]

The lack of knowledge about our club and how football works in general is sometimes nothing short of staggering on here.

 

If we take it from 2014. Which would be about the time Levein got the academy set up with his vision and it's first full crop of players started working to that system Cochrane would have been 13-14 years old. As well as a couple of others who are getting a chance this season.

 

As most will know when we went into admin our academy was in tatters and many of the players were fast tracked to the first team. Leaving huge holes in the age groups between 18-21. Any player who could kick a ball at that age ended up in the first team. That is 3 years worth of development talent. From 2012 to 2015 those gaps had to be filled by younger players again (15-17) fast tracked and some others signed to plug holes. 

 

The first age group who would be put onto the new system and raised on Leveins academy would be Cochranes age group which I'll guess was about U14 level. Those players won't be U21 level until 2020. You can speed up the aging process. 

 

The academy has given us some early fruit but it won't be producing players on our new system consistently until at least next summer. Which is why we are still signing a lot of players in the market rather than bringing through academy players. We are still waiting on those players growing up. Something that you can't make go faster.

[Bauld]

9 minutes ago, King Joffrey said:

 

Yeah admit I should have been clearer was more referring to fact he's also 20 and been nowhere near a likely first team member other than in dire needs. Young players should be coming through about 18 or 19 and established or moved on by 20 to 21. I do actually like Keena but he's going to be 21 before pushing for real consideration. Cosgrove is 22 and been Aberdeen starting centre forward for a year. 

 

Horrific statement. Players like Harry Kane couldn't kick their own arse at 18-20. 

 

That is why England uses an u23 league system. It allows for full physical and mental development. 

 

Players aren't machines. They all develop at different rates. 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Bauld

[Bazzas right boot]

[Bazzas right boot]

10 minutes ago, Bauld said:

 

Horrific statement. Players like Harry Kane couldn't kick their own arse at 18-20. 

 

That is why England uses an u23 league system. It allows for full physical and mental development. 

 

Players aren't machines. They all develop at different rates. 

 

 

It beggars belief how folk form thier opinions and think what should happen. 

 

Short sightedness, stupid, emotional, maybe too young? Not really sure but, sometimes it's startling what folk conew out with. 

 

 

[Finlay James]

1 hour ago, King Joffrey said:

The Ajax model? Do people go to the pub before posting? Levein is the jam tomorrow guy on every front. 

 

Our reserves are 7th I think. Cochrane is 18 and guys like Turnbull and Hastie at Motherwell are first XI every week and million pound plus players performing at that level consistently. 

 

We brought in guys like Wighton and Burns and Mulraney and Shaugnessey because we have nothing coming through of any note. Even Keena can't get match time in a Hearts team that is the worst in the league for goals from open play. 

 

I sound beaten and negative because I am. Levein promises and promises and delivers nothing. Dragging it all out til retirement. I have as much faith in our youth system as I do our recruitment. But Budge fans talk of restructuring and investment in the academy. I deal in proof. Where is it?

 

I hope Cochrane makes it but remember he was the Gilmour understudy at Rangers and let go for not being good enough. 

 

I've been brought up on youngsters making the first team like McLaren or Naysmith. Where's that quality? Nowhere. Godinho and Brandon are 21 and 22 next month. By this stage they should be first team or off to Dunfermline. 

 

I honestly think if every player in Scotland was fit we'd be one of maybe two SPL first teams with no academy player in it. But Levein says hold on, give it 3 years, like the recruitment and new flair players, (like the stand for that matter but that's another thread), like everything. Jam tomorrow.

 

Ajax? Puh-lease.

 

Get shot and let's get new management in at all levels.

Utter pish 

 

Scottish football is where it is because of this type of thinking.  

[Jason Dufner]

1 hour ago, King Joffrey said:

The Ajax model? Do people go to the pub before posting? Levein is the jam tomorrow guy on every front. 

 

Our reserves are 7th I think. Cochrane is 18 and guys like Turnbull and Hastie at Motherwell are first XI every week and million pound plus players performing at that level consistently. 

 

We brought in guys like Wighton and Burns and Mulraney and Shaugnessey because we have nothing coming through of any note. Even Keena can't get match time in a Hearts team that is the worst in the league for goals from open play. 

 

I sound beaten and negative because I am. Levein promises and promises and delivers nothing. Dragging it all out til retirement. I have as much faith in our youth system as I do our recruitment. But Budge fans talk of restructuring and investment in the academy. I deal in proof. Where is it?

 

I hope Cochrane makes it but remember he was the Gilmour understudy at Rangers and let go for not being good enough. 

 

I've been brought up on youngsters making the first team like McLaren or Naysmith. Where's that quality? Nowhere. Godinho and Brandon are 21 and 22 next month. By this stage they should be first team or off to Dunfermline. 

 

I honestly think if every player in Scotland was fit we'd be one of maybe two SPL first teams with no academy player in it. But Levein says hold on, give it 3 years, like the recruitment and new flair players, (like the stand for that matter but that's another thread), like everything. Jam tomorrow.

 

Ajax? Puh-lease.

 

Get shot and let's get new management in at all levels.

Spot on & couldn’t agree more.

 

Particularly agree that Brandon/Godinho etc should be established first team starters, the fact that they’re not speaks volumes.

[Johnny Sandiego]

1 hour ago, King Joffrey said:

The Ajax model? Do people go to the pub before posting? Levein is the jam tomorrow guy on every front. 

 

Our reserves are 7th I think. Cochrane is 18 and guys like Turnbull and Hastie at Motherwell are first XI every week and million pound plus players performing at that level consistently. 

 

Turnbull's 19 and only started playing regularly this season. H

Hastie is 20 and has only played 13 games. Both these guys are older than Cochraine.

 

1 hour ago, King Joffrey said:

 

We brought in guys like Wighton and Burns and Mulraney and Shaugnessey because we have nothing coming through of any note. Even Keena can't get match time in a Hearts team that is the worst in the league for goals from open play. 

Keena was brought over from Ireland last year and has been fairly successfull in his loan spells. If he hadnt got injured he would have played a lot more games.

 

1 hour ago, King Joffrey said:

 

I sound beaten and negative because I am. Levein promises and promises and delivers nothing. Dragging it all out til retirement. I have as much faith in our youth system as I do our recruitment. But Budge fans talk of restructuring and investment in the academy. I deal in proof. Where is it?

 

Agreed, you sound beaten and negative.

 

1 hour ago, King Joffrey said:

 

I hope Cochrane makes it but remember he was the Gilmour understudy at Rangers and let go for not being good enough. 

 

I've been brought up on youngsters making the first team like McLaren or Naysmith. Where's that quality? Nowhere. Godinho and Brandon are 21 and 22 next month. By this stage they should be first team or off to Dunfermline. 

You've named 2 of the most successfull players to ever come through our youth accademy. What about the 100s of others in that time? Not everyone is going to be as good as those 2 and its completely unrealistic to expect that. For what its worth i think Cochraine can develop into a player as good as them once he plays more games. Naismith was sold when he was 21.

 

I honestly think if every player in Scotland was fit we'd be one of maybe two SPL first teams with no academy player in it. But Levein says hold on, give it 3 years, like the recruitment and new flair players, (like the stand for that matter but that's another thread), like everything. Jam tomorrow.

 

Ajax? Puh-lease.

 

Get shot and let's get new management in at all levels.

 

Sounds like your the one whos been in the pub all day. I take it you dont realise that players develop at different stages and its not a case of cutting them lose if they arn't million pound plus by age 18?

 

So many daft comments in your post but a few comments. 

[Bazzas right boot]

18 minutes ago, Finlay James said:

Utter pish 

 

Scottish football is where it is because of this type of thinking.  

 

 

??

[siegementality]

1 hour ago, Morph said:

Good to see him backing the young guys publicly.

 

Must be a big confidence boost when you read the manager speaking well about you in the papers.  Hopefully that Smith lad kicks on, looked good for a spell against hibs.

Yeah, just ask David Vanecek, eh, wait a minute, maybe not!

[jr ewing]

Money could be used to bringing in say 3 players established in lower leagues, only need one of them to succeed each year. Simples. 

[Bauld]

35 minutes ago, Jason Dufner said:

Spot on & couldn’t agree more.

 

Particularly agree that Brandon/Godinho etc should be established first team starters, the fact that they’re not speaks volumes.

 

Christ.

[Jason Dufner]

7 minutes ago, Bauld said:

 

Christ.

What? 

 

Most teams younger players are establishing themselves at 18/19 like Cochrane is trying to do.

 

If you’re going to make it you should be a starter or at least pushing the starter...Something the named two players haven’t been doing

[BOBTHEBRUCE]

He  should concentrate on the youngsters and let someone else come in to take care of the 1st team. 

He's trying to juggle too many jobs in my opinion and half arsing them. 

 

[Bauld]

5 minutes ago, Jason Dufner said:

What? 

 

Most teams younger players are establishing themselves at 18/19 like Cochrane is trying to do.

 

If you’re going to make it you should be a starter or at least pushing the starter...Something the named two players haven’t been doing

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-marcus-godinho-opens-up-on-knee-injury-woe-1-4818304/amp

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/blow-hearts-jamie-brandon-ruled-12038749.amp

 

 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

1 hour ago, Finlay James said:

Utter pish 

 

Scottish football is where it is because of this type of thinking.  

Saved me the bother of posting. 

 

Dark ages. Short term rules 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

16 minutes ago, BOBTHEBRUCE said:

He  should concentrate on the youngsters and let someone else come in to take care of the 1st team. 

He's trying to juggle too many jobs in my opinion and half arsing them. 

 

Now that might just be a very fair and valid point 

[Maple Leaf]

3 hours ago, Bauld said:

Strengthening academies and developing youth is probably Leveins greatest strength.

 

If we want to compete with celtic it won't be financially. But it can be done from having an excellent academy and mixing it with experienced pros who have been there and done it, like Naismith.

 

Basically the Ajax model although they have a pretty substantial budget to play with as well.

 

iirc, that was part of the 5-year plan, which we started about 5 years ago.  It sounds good in theory, but I don't think it has been achieved.

[DarthVodka]

4 hours ago, Bauld said:

Strengthening academies and developing youth is probably Leveins greatest strength.

 

If we want to compete with celtic it won't be financially. But it can be done from having an excellent academy and mixing it with experienced pros who have been there and done it, like Naismith.

 

Basically the Ajax model although they have a pretty substantial budget to play with as well.

 

This is something he was wanting to change at the SFA when Scotland manager for the whole youth set up in the country, needless to say one of his many issues there is they don’t want change and want to be stuck in the dark ages

[Bauld]

17 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

iirc, that was part of the 5-year plan, which we started about 5 years ago.  It sounds good in theory, but I don't think it has been achieved.

 

See my post above regarding time frames on developing our academy and players. 

[BOBTHEBRUCE]

27 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Now that might just be a very fair and valid point 

 

I've experienced it myself in the work place. 

If you're expected to do 5 different jobs, you're never going to be the best you can at any of them. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

3 hours ago, King Joffrey said:

The Ajax model? Do people go to the pub before posting? Levein is the jam tomorrow guy on every front. 

 

Our reserves are 7th I think. Cochrane is 18 and guys like Turnbull and Hastie at Motherwell are first XI every week and million pound plus players performing at that level consistently. 

 

We brought in guys like Wighton and Burns and Mulraney and Shaugnessey because we have nothing coming through of any note. Even Keena can't get match time in a Hearts team that is the worst in the league for goals from open play. 

 

I sound beaten and negative because I am. Levein promises and promises and delivers nothing. Dragging it all out til retirement. I have as much faith in our youth system as I do our recruitment. But Budge fans talk of restructuring and investment in the academy. I deal in proof. Where is it?

 

I hope Cochrane makes it but remember he was the Gilmour understudy at Rangers and let go for not being good enough. 

 

I've been brought up on youngsters making the first team like McLaren or Naysmith. Where's that quality? Nowhere. Godinho and Brandon are 21 and 22 next month. By this stage they should be first team or off to Dunfermline. 

 

I honestly think if every player in Scotland was fit we'd be one of maybe two SPL first teams with no academy player in it. But Levein says hold on, give it 3 years, like the recruitment and new flair players, (like the stand for that matter but that's another thread), like everything. Jam tomorrow.

 

Ajax? Puh-lease.

 

Get shot and let's get new management in at all levels.

 

This x100