Mr Elwood P Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 27 minutes ago, JamboGraham said: I can only speak for myself but my opposition is entirely based on fairness. The club clearly states on our website that loyalty points are used to determine access to tickets for matches where there is high demand, such as Semi-Finals and Finals or away matches. These points are valid for the current and previous season. Not everyone that wants a ticket for the final is going to get one. If we remove the groups that have more than enough points and the group that will never have enough points (through choice or circumstance) then you are likely to have a several hundred people who are right on the borderline of getting the opportunity to purchase a ticket. Given that the cut off in 2012 went down to 8 points this means that someone who has attended around 7 to 10 matches at Tynecastle over the past two seasons is now sweating, or even someone with 2 matches at Tynecastle and away visits to St Johnstone and Hamilton. We have no idea why someone might be at this level of attendance, it could be work, it could be distance away, it could be that simply that is the most the budget will allow. What is clear though is that the published method loyalty points means that they have a chance of getting a ticket for the final as they have turned up and supported the club. This is correct and fair in my view. If we allow brand new season ticket holders for next season to jump ahead of them (and it is only brand new season ticket holders, existing holders swithering about a renewal are already ahead of the 'borderline' group) then we are not actually rewarding loyalty, we would be rewarding the ability to spend several hundred pounds and the price of a cup final ticket in one go. I honestly don't think a guarantee of a cup final ticket as the result of purchasing a completely new season ticket for next season would be that popular an option (mainly as it is a massive financial outlay) and I certainly couldn't see it being around the 3,000 mark quoted, perhaps a few hundred at absolute most. It might be more cash in the door but I genuinely hope that, with the existing contributions made by the support to FOH added to our existing spend on tickets, hospitality and merchandise, our club wouldn't want to further exploit the desire or the ability to jump the queue on supporters that have already earned loyalty points for tickets already bought and matches already attended. Even if only 100 people took up a new season ticket offer with a guaranteed ticket that would mean 100 'borderline' people lose out. If even just a handful of them were lower points holders as a result of work, distance or available budget and therefore miss out on the final it would make me genuinely sad as a fellow Hearts supporter. That's why I oppose the suggestion and hope that the club continues to allocate tickets on loyalty points only using the established method. I can also say that I have no personal incentive here. I am in the very fortunate position where I am able to attend the majority of matches both home and away and am grateful every week that I am in the position and circumstance to do so. You've not thought that post through at all. The majority of people who would buy a season ticket to ensure a cup final ticket will be the supporters you refer to as 'borderline'. If the club uses the loyalty points system then buying a season ticket for the 2019/20 season will give someone 20 LP and that would be added to their existing LP. Whether the club explicitly guarantee a cup final ticket through the purchase of a 2019/20 season ticket or use loyalty points system won't make any difference. 20+ points will guarantee a ticket regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Hans Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 3 hours ago, Josh said: When will the tickets go on sale Final 19th May 2012. Thursday 26th April - Season ticket holders Thursday 3rd May - 8-39 loyalty points. Might give you some idea of timings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, JamboGraham said: Indeed but an entirely new season ticket can't be bought till the 3rd May so there is plenty opportunity for the club to make sure that this loophole isn't a concern. Renewals are already on 20 points as a minimum so even if any additional points are added now they are not jumping the queue as they are already in the guaranteed group. However, in 2012 it would have moved them from the 1st phase of sales to the 2nd phase, offering a wider choice of tickets in the stadium. I would be less concerned about that as a consequence though. No, mate. A new ST can be bought today as long as it’s not an existing seat. So, feasibly, someone could go on now, buy a ST and get their, required 20 pts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Royal Jambo said: Final 19th May 2012. Thursday 26th April - Season ticket holders Thursday 3rd May - 8-39 loyalty points. Might give you some idea of timings. Hospitality is coming in from £255 + vat. bummer- not really interested in meals and drink. Just want tickets. poo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, Royal Jambo said: Final 19th May 2012. Thursday 26th April - Season ticket holders Thursday 3rd May - 8-39 loyalty points. Might give you some idea of timings. That contradicts earlier posts saying it was LPs from the start. Can’t remember as I had a ST then and a bag of points ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboGraham Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said: You've not thought that post through at all. The majority of people who would buy a season ticket to ensure a cup final ticket will be the supporters you refer to as 'borderline'. If the club uses the loyalty points system then buying a season ticket for the 2019/20 season will give someone 20 LP and that would be added to their existing LP. Whether the club explicitly guarantee a cup final ticket through the purchase of a 2019/20 season ticket or use loyalty points system won't make any difference. 20+ points will guarantee a ticket regardless. I respectfully disagree. I am suggesting that the people I refer to as 'borderline' are the supporters who have the least genuine requirement or ability to purchase a season ticket in order to secure a ticket for the final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgeJambo Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 38 minutes ago, Boab said: But if someone buys a ST for next season, they will be allocated 20pts ! There is some debate as to when these appear on your account but in the past, mine have appeared after the purchase date. Therein lies the “ problem “ as you say. Points for games you’ve yet to attend. No easy answer really. I have bought mine for next season and the 20 points have not been added as of today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: Hospitality is coming in from £255 + vat. bummer- not really interested in meals and drink. Just want tickets. poo It is good though. Done it for a Scotland game and was stuffed and leathered ! Recommend it If you’re flush ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 1 minute ago, BelgeJambo said: I have bought mine for next season and the 20 points have not been added as of today When did you buy it, mate, if you don’t mind me asking ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUTOL Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, BelgeJambo said: I have bought mine for next season and the 20 points have not been added as of today Did you have a ST last season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboGraham Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, Boab said: No, mate. A new ST can be bought today as long as it’s not an existing seat. So, feasibly, someone could go on now, buy a ST and get their, required 20 pts. Genuinely didn't realise that a new season ticket can be bought today effectively guaranteeing a cup final ticket. I am now confused as to why posters are arguing for a provision to be made that is already available. That aside I believe that loyalty is something to be earned and not something that can be bought in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambocub Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 I'm sure those who make the decisions will do it in the interest of fairness ,no doubt some folk will miss out and feel its unfair but in general those who get tickets will be the ones who've been regulars lately. Maybe an idea to have a thread for anyone who has a spare ticket to help others out( I'm say this as someone who'll get a ticket) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgeJambo Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Boab said: When did you buy it, mate, if you don’t mind me asking ? 7th March - I am an existing ST holder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 If we were playing Aberdeen, there would have been a scramble for tickets with some being disappointed. Because we are playing Celtic, I think anyone who wants a ticket will get one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, JamboGraham said: Genuinely didn't realise that a new season ticket can be bought today effectively guaranteeing a cup final ticket. I am now confused as to why posters are arguing for a provision to be made that is already available. That aside I believe that loyalty is something to be earned and not something that can be bought in advance. 4 minutes ago, BelgeJambo said: 7th March - I am an existing ST holder Re; Belge’s post, Graham, maybe it is the case that next season’s points may not be added until after the season end. I can only comment on my own experience and my 17/18 ST points were added on the second week of May. Previous seasons ? Haven’t a clue ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Elwood P Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 18 minutes ago, JamboGraham said: I respectfully disagree. I am suggesting that the people I refer to as 'borderline' are the supporters who have the least genuine requirement or ability to purchase a season ticket in order to secure a ticket for the final. A supporter with 0 LP would be afforded the same opportunity as a supporter with 5-10 LP to purchase a 2019/20 season ticket and boost their total by 20 points. It is isn't prejudicial against either class of supporter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboGraham Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 10 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said: A supporter with 0 LP would be afforded the same opportunity as a supporter with 5-10 LP to purchase a 2019/20 season ticket and boost their total by 20 points. It is isn't prejudicial against either class of supporter. I agree with your comments but I would suggest that there is a difference between having the opportunity to buy and the ability to buy. You are arguing that the ability to purchase loyalty points in advance is of more benefit to the club than current lower loyalty points totals. Financially speaking you are 100% correct. My view is that I don't believe that is fair for all the reasons in my original post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Elwood P Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 Just now, JamboGraham said: I agree with your comments but I would suggest that there is a difference between having the opportunity to buy and the ability to buy. You are arguing that the ability to purchase loyalty points in advance is of more benefit to the club than current lower loyalty points totals. Financially speaking you are 100% correct. My view is that I don't believe that is fair for all the reasons in my original post. It’s open to manipulation whatever course the club follows. Aberdeen away will be rammed with loyalty points harvesters if it’s done by LP. You can also buy children’s tickets for away games to boost your LP! Not sure why I dragged myself into this whole debate. I’ve got 2 season tickets, almost 100 LP and pay £20 per month to FOH so won’t be affected regardless of how the club decide to approach sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Hans Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 45 minutes ago, Boab said: That contradicts earlier posts saying it was LPs from the start. Can’t remember as I had a ST then and a bag of points ! Might have been 40+ rather than season ticket holders. Info a bit sketchy now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 50 minutes ago, Royal Jambo said: Final 19th May 2012. Thursday 26th April - Season ticket holders Thursday 3rd May - 8-39 loyalty points. Might give you some idea of timings. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 Just now, Mr Elwood P said: It’s open to manipulation whatever course the club follows. Aberdeen away will be rammed with loyalty points harvesters if it’s done by LP. You can also buy children’s tickets for away games to boost your LP! Not sure why I dragged myself into this whole debate. I’ve got 2 season tickets, almost 100 LP and pay £20 per month to FOH so won’t be affected regardless of how the club decide to approach sales. No, I think it’s better that people who will be going, you and I, can debate these things. Removes any accusations of bleating from the Ubers ! ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgeJambo Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 You would like to think the club will be able to analyse STs vs LPs and make a decision on what is the fairest way forward Does anyone know if they are culling LPs every season or was it just a one-off when they chopped everybody recently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, BelgeJambo said: You would like to think the club will be able to analyse STs vs LPs and make a decision on what is the fairest way forward Does anyone know if they are culling LPs every season or was it just a one-off when they chopped everybody recently? You would need a Philadelphia lawyer....or Football First....to answer the workings of the LP scheme, mate ! Edited April 15, 2019 by Boab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgeJambo Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Boab said: You would need a Philadelphia lawyer....or Football First....to answer the workings of the LP scheme, mate ! Could offer a promotion to a Dot Counter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 Just now, BelgeJambo said: Could offer a promotion to a Dot Counter Anyone can count !! Sorry, Clerry ! ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUTOL Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, BelgeJambo said: You would like to think the club will be able to analyse STs vs LPs and make a decision on what is the fairest way forward Does anyone know if they are culling LPs every season or was it just a one-off when they chopped everybody recently? It happens every season. The ones accrued three seasons ago drop off. i.e it's last season and the current season that are counted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doc Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Boab said: My 2017/18 ST points were added after I purchased it. 15/5/17 to be precise. According to Hearts ticket office, loyalty points for purchasing a 19/20 season ticket will be added shortly before the start of the season. Hence my July(ish) guestimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Of The Cat Cafe Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, BelgeJambo said: I have bought mine for next season and the 20 points have not been added as of today Nor for me. I wonder; do the 2019/2020 loyalty points only kick in after the start of the 2019/2020 season? Edit: The Doc got in with info while I was typing! Edited April 15, 2019 by King Of The Cat Cafe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUTOL Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 If you have had a season ticket for the past two seasons, then renewing will/should not increase your loyalty points total. Due to the oldest points dropping off and the new ones becoming active at the same time, whenever that is (July?) If there is a loyalty points level, then 12 would be achieved by anyone who has been to the last 4 rounds, more if you went to Partick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 57 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said: If we were playing Aberdeen, there would have been a scramble for tickets with some being disappointed. Because we are playing Celtic, I think anyone who wants a ticket will get one That's where I'm at All 5 of us were going to go, but that's now down to my 15 year old and I. I suspect many will be the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 15 minutes ago, The Doc said: According to Hearts ticket office, loyalty points for purchasing a 19/20 season ticket will be added shortly before the start of the season. Hence my July(ish) guestimate. If that’s what they’re saying, fair enough. The arguments of buying a ST now to guarantee a CF brief will subside then no doubt. Still think the club would be missing a trick if this is the case however. Let’s see what’s announced when the tickets become available. Agree with above posts that it won’t be as mad a scramble if it was the sheep. It will be tasty against the demons, make no mistake, and that will put some people off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvery_Moon Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 Loyalty points for new season tickets counted in 2012 : https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/110186-one-ticket-per-st/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, Silvery_Moon said: Loyalty points for new season tickets counted in 2012 : https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/110186-one-ticket-per-st/ The plot thickens ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda.bisset100 Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 1 hour ago, doctor jambo said: Hospitality is coming in from £255 + vat. bummer- not really interested in meals and drink. Just want tickets. poo Where are the details for hospitality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, linda.bisset100 said: Where are the details for hospitality? google takes you to them - they are re-sold debentures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda.bisset100 Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 11 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: google takes you to them - they are re-sold debentures Thanks for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munich_veteran Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 12 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: google takes you to them - they are re-sold debentures Is this basically the only option for someone who doesn't have loyalty points? I live in the US and only get to attend one game per season, so I have no real way to build loyalty points. I only need one ticket, so I'd be Billy-no-mates at the hospitality, but I'm OK with that if it means I'll get a ticket. Can someone confirm for me that's the only option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newton51 Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 Join us at Hampden for some fantastic hospitality at this year’s William Hill Scottish Cup Final. VIP Package - £420 Including VAT Champagne reception Four course meal Complimentary pre match bar for three hours Half time refreshments Executive seating in the William Hill Stand Complimentary post match bar for one hour Corporate gift Programme and teamsheet 1 car parking pass per booking Skyboxes for ten guests are available priced at £4900 including VAT. Please note there is a waiting list for skyboxes in the Celtic end. If you would like added to the waiting list please confirm by e-mailing [email protected] . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GYL Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 15 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: google takes you to them - they are re-sold debentures Hampden/SFA sell them directly nothing available via Hearts.....pricey though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connlach Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 Yep i have more than 20 loyalty points i was replying to the person about non season ticket holders who are foh contrrbuters. 2 hours ago, Royal Jambo said: Going to two games at Pittodrie would net you 12 loyalty points. Throw in Cove Rangers away this season, 18 points in the bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUTOL Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, munich_veteran said: Is this basically the only option for someone who doesn't have loyalty points? I live in the US and only get to attend one game per season, so I have no real way to build loyalty points. I only need one ticket, so I'd be Billy-no-mates at the hospitality, but I'm OK with that if it means I'll get a ticket. Can someone confirm for me that's the only option? We don't know yet, but if loyalty points are required then short of someone buying you one who is not able to go themselves, then it would appear to be the only real option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, munich_veteran said: Is this basically the only option for someone who doesn't have loyalty points? I live in the US and only get to attend one game per season, so I have no real way to build loyalty points. I only need one ticket, so I'd be Billy-no-mates at the hospitality, but I'm OK with that if it means I'll get a ticket. Can someone confirm for me that's the only option? You would not be a billy no mates in hospitality! Given the shared interest in being there, after at most the first couple of drinks you will be best friends or at least good mates with everyone on your table! And maybe a few on adjacent tables. Edited April 15, 2019 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munich_veteran Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 Just now, Francis Albert said: You would not be a billy no mates in hospitality! Given the shared interest in being there after at most the first couple of drinks you will be best friends or at least good mates with everyone on your table! That's an excellent point. Has anyone attended cup final hospitality before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 Just now, munich_veteran said: That's an excellent point. Has anyone attended cup final hospitality before? Not cup final but at spurs and liverpool away Europa games. Even though these were "mixed" occasions everyone was friendly although I suppose in neither case did the home fans take Hearts too seriously as opponents! I assume for the final there will be strict segregation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1975 Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 For those looking at hospitality as the only option I wouldn't rush to get the hampden options as they are 1 expensive and 2 probably not segregated. In 2012 the club did their own packages which involved meal and drinks in a Glasgow hotel then seats in the south stand with transport included. Was maybe about £200? I would imagine if logistically possible they will look to do the same again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munich_veteran Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 Just now, jambo1975 said: For those looking at hospitality as the only option I wouldn't rush to get the hampden options as they are 1 expensive and 2 probably not segregated. In 2012 the club did their own packages which involved meal and drinks in a Glasgow hotel then seats in the south stand with transport included. Was maybe about £200? I would imagine if logistically possible they will look to do the same again. The segregation is my concern, and I have an email out the contact at Hampden to ask that very question? Imagine being at a table full of Celtic fans? I also have an email out to Hearts, asking if they'll have options. Good to know it was done in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUTOL Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, munich_veteran said: The segregation is my concern, and I have an email out the contact at Hampden to ask that very question? Imagine being at a table full of Celtic fans? I also have an email out to Hearts, asking if they'll have options. Good to know it was done in the past. These ones are segregated, or at least you select which team you are supporting. https://www.bluechiphospitality.com/shop/scottish-cup-final-hospitality-tickets/ Edited April 15, 2019 by SUTOL forgot link! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
km7bhf Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 10 minutes ago, munich_veteran said: The segregation is my concern, and I have an email out the contact at Hampden to ask that very question? Imagine being at a table full of Celtic fans? I also have an email out to Hearts, asking if they'll have options. Good to know it was done in the past. I was at the 5-1 Hampden Hospitality and it was segregated. A great day out if you can afford it. We had an extra seat that we sold to a guy on eBay who similarly had no mates but blended in as though we had known him for years. Best way to guarantee a seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah O Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 10 minutes ago, SUTOL said: These ones are segregated, or at least you select which team you are supporting. https://www.bluechiphospitality.com/shop/scottish-cup-final-hospitality-tickets/ Debenture hospitality sounds pish for £200+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doc Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 15 minutes ago, munich_veteran said: The segregation is my concern, and I have an email out the contact at Hampden to ask that very question? Imagine being at a table full of Celtic fans? I also have an email out to Hearts, asking if they'll have options. Good to know it was done in the past. Hearts will definitely do something which will suit your needs, be cheaper than the Hampden option and be an all Jambo affair. I’ve done it a couple of times for games at Hampden and as mentioned above you’ll get transport from Tynecastle to a hotel (It’s been the Thistle hotel on both occasions I’ve done it) Fed and watered there, bus to Hampden, a premium seat/match ticket and transport back to Tynecastle after the game. From memory the cost was around £170/180 plus VAT. If you’re willing to pay that, sit tight and you’ll get sorted no problem. I’d recommend it to anyone and makes the day a bit more special. ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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