U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

On 07/12/2021 at 07:38, JackLadd said:

The orange ape knowingly infected and exposed hundreds to the virus. Should be a lawsuit or two in there or even a criminal indictment for reckless endangerment 

😂

Or perhaps the story is fake and he never actually exposed one never mind hundreds of people. Do people still actually lose their $#!t over Trump?

[Seymour M Hersh]

"Empire actor Jussie Smollett is convicted of orchestrating fake racist and homophobic attack with help of two Nigerian brothers to boost his career and now faces up to TWENTY years in jail".

 

 

I wonder if the two clowns at the top will apologise (and all the other usual suspects who piled on twitter to virtue signal).

 

Joe Biden

 

@JoeBiden

 

 

 

United States government official

What happened today to

@JussieSmollett

must never be tolerated in this country. We must stand up and demand that we no longer give this hate safe harbor; that homophobia and racism have no place on our streets or in our hearts. We are with you, Jussie.

 

 

 

Kamala Harris

 

@KamalaHarris

 

 

 

United States government official

.

@JussieSmollett

is one of the kindest, most gentle human beings I know. I’m praying for his quick recovery. This was an attempted modern day lynching. No one should have to fear for their life because of their sexuality or color of their skin. We must confront this hate.

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

"Empire actor Jussie Smollett is convicted of orchestrating fake racist and homophobic attack with help of two Nigerian brothers to boost his career and now faces up to TWENTY years in jail".

 

 

I wonder if the two clowns at the top will apologise (and all the other usual suspects who piled on twitter to virtue signal).

 

Joe Biden

 

@JoeBiden

 

 

 

United States government official

What happened today to

@JussieSmollett

must never be tolerated in this country. We must stand up and demand that we no longer give this hate safe harbor; that homophobia and racism have no place on our streets or in our hearts. We are with you, Jussie.

 

 

 

Kamala Harris

 

@KamalaHarris

 

 

 

United States government official

.

@JussieSmollett

is one of the kindest, most gentle human beings I know. I’m praying for his quick recovery. This was an attempted modern day lynching. No one should have to fear for their life because of their sexuality or color of their skin. We must confront this hate.

Not in a million years would any one of these two take back what they said prior to any police investigation. One because he doesn’t remember saying it. The other because she’s a condescending race baiter.

 

[Cade]

People offered support based on the face-value reports of the "attack".

 

Not sure you can score any points for attacking them for that.

 

Nobody knew it was faked at the time and attempting to make out that people who offered support have anything to apologise for is nonsensical.

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

8 minutes ago, Cade said:

People offered support based on the face-value reports of the "attack".

 

Not sure you can score any points for attacking them for that.

 

Nobody knew it was faked at the time and attempting to make out that people who offered support have anything to apologise for is nonsensical.

 

 

Absolute piffle the face value reports as you benignly call them were all him saying it was white, MAGA hat wearing racists. They (the illiberal elite) jumped on the the MAGA, racist lies and politicised them for all they were worth. 

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

2 hours ago, Cade said:

People offered support based on the face-value reports of the "attack".

 

Not sure you can score any points for attacking them for that.

 

Nobody knew it was faked at the time and attempting to make out that people who offered support have anything to apologise for is nonsensical.

 

😂

[Sharpie]

It is not unusual for someone to lie particularly about a present time viewed by the public as a disorderly opinion. Anyone who wants to promote that displeasure to a dramatic situation such as a well known public figure alleging that he has been subjected to in this case racism is bound to get considerable if not heavy support, that is what happened here. I unfortunately because of long lifetime experience I guess am somewhat reluctant to get on to the heavy support bandwagon, I do not criticise in this case such as the President and other well known figures for stating their views. They were let down, and the man who did it should be punished severely for doing so. I have stated quite regularly two things which I have dealt with quite comprehensively in my life are liars and hate, both are damaging and tools of the untrustworthy.

[Sharpie]

16 hours ago, HeartsandonlyHearts said:

😂

Or perhaps the story is fake and he never actually exposed one never mind hundreds of people. Do people still actually lose their $#!t over Trump?

 

I don't really know what you mean by lose their shit over Trump, I for one admit to being a complete and unabashed critic of the man. I have made no secret of my reasons for distrust of him,  are generally character flaws I see in him. He will use untruths when spontaneously responding to allegations, such as the one on Air Force One, when a reporter enquired about his sexual conduct with a woman when his wife was in hospital, he responded with a total untruth about that situation, but then later paid her money to not discuss it. The lawyer making the payment later told the story. My pet peeve his failure to answer his draft notice for the Vietnam War, because of bone spurs. He gained his ultimate fame on a ridiculous TV program where his use of the You're Fired phrase gave him a level of fame. He and does have to be commended for his skill parleyed that into a Presidency, where he again acted a part. He is presently with the assistance of a TV channel again touting for another run at the Presidency in 2024, and my major concern is that the way the present President and Vice President are handling the position Trump if still interested will be a total winner.

[JFK-1]

5 hours ago, Sharpie said:

 

I don't really know what you mean by lose their shit over Trump, I for one admit to being a complete and unabashed critic of the man.

You hear this type of thing largely from fans of this dimwit. You apparently listen to Hannity, kudos to you, I can't force myself through such witless babbling but somebody has to keep tabs on these wackos.

Most of the democratic world are complete and unabashed critics of this orange buffoon for good reason. Any comment suggesting talking about the clown and his activities as 'losing your shit' is pretty much as witless as Trump himself.

This is a buffoon who has hijacked one of only two major political parties in the worlds most powerful nation. A nation critical to global stability. Only a moron would decline to discuss it or suggest discussing it is losing your shit.

I bet Hannity talks about him all the time. Losing his shit?

[Sharpie]

44 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

You hear this type of thing largely from fans of this dimwit. You apparently listen to Hannity, kudos to you, I can't force myself through such witless babbling but somebody has to keep tabs on these wackos.

Most of the democratic world are complete and unabashed critics of this orange buffoon for good reason. Any comment suggesting talking about the clown and his activities as 'losing your shit' is pretty much as witless as Trump himself.

This is a buffoon who has hijacked one of only two major political parties in the worlds most powerful nation. A nation critical to global stability. Only a moron would decline to discuss it or suggest discussing it is losing your shit.

I bet Hannity talks about him all the time. Losing his shit?

 

Hannity never misses a chance to mention Trump, he criticises Biden relentlessly and advises that they have to go back to the way Trump done things because Biden is ruining all the positives Trump left. I have mentioned that Trump last week was interviewed by Hannity, Carlson and twice by Levin. It is fair play for  TV Station to have a political bias, they need audience to make money, but Fox do go overboard, I can accept criticism of Biden, there is a lot of it for discussion, but I disagree with rudeness and to never refer to the man as the President at any time is just rude and not at all clever.

[JackLadd]

1 minute ago, Sharpie said:

 

Hannity never misses a chance to mention Trump, he criticises Biden relentlessly and advises that they have to go back to the way Trump done things because Biden is ruining all the positives Trump left. I have mentioned that Trump last week was interviewed by Hannity, Carlson and twice by Levin. It is fair play for  TV Station to have a political bias, they need audience to make money, but Fox do go overboard, I can accept criticism of Biden, there is a lot of it for discussion, but I disagree with rudeness and to never refer to the man as the President at any time is just rude and not at all clever.

 

They are kissing Trump hard to get back in the ape's graces after Oan and Newsmax stole some of their puddle drinking maga viewers. Murdoch has made noises about moving on from Trump's lies, but profit will always come before principals when it comes to Murdoch. Biden is doing fine from what I can see, no daily scandals and insanity and trying to get the country over covid and back on track. He inherited a laughing stock, pandemic and economic disaster from Trump plus hyper partisan Congress and supreme court loaded against him. God bless him though. 

[JFK-1]

1 hour ago, JackLadd said:

Murdoch has made noises about moving on from Trump's lies, but profit will always come before principals when it comes to Murdoch. 

 

Exactly why his son James quit the company, obviously not quite a chip off the old block. He cited a lot of reasons, this being just one of them.

 

Quote

I reached the conclusion that you can venerate a contest of ideas, if you will, and we all do and that’s important,” 

“But it shouldn’t be in a way that hides agendas.

A contest of ideas shouldn't be used to legitimise disinformation. And I think it’s often taken advantage of.

And I think at great news organisations, the mission really should be to introduce fact to disperse doubt – not to sow doubt to obscure fact, if you will.

 

[Cade]

Investigators find a 60+ page powerpoint presentation that the Trumpites were planning to show to congress in an attempt to convince them to throw out the election result.

A detailed plan for a coup that never happened.

Evidence keeps coming out of just how close we came to disaster in the USA.

 

 

[JFK-1]

Jan. 6 Texts from Don Jr and Fox News Hosts Revealed

 

 

 

[JFK-1]

More Shocking Jan. 6 Texts Reveal GOP Lawmakers Planning Coup Attempt

 

 

 

[Sharpie]

11 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

More Shocking Jan. 6 Texts Reveal GOP Lawmakers Planning Coup Attempt

 

 

 

 

I done my normal news watching yesterday.As is my now usual I start preparing my evening meal around 5.30pm. This works well because I am careful with my diet because my viewing of the  particularly US news  could put me off my food.

The United States at this time, a once the epitomy of the democratic system is at present in a state similar to what we used to ridicule happening in some smaller more volatile areas.

The news media is not really such, they have all become advertisers for their particular choice of politician and future candidates. They each insult the party of the party not of their  choice. They both accuse their opponent of telling lies, one particular station refers to the President of the United States as Joe, and constantly diagnoses his state of lacking the ability for cognitive  presentation. The President however countermands this by giving prepared speeches with assisting notes, and still has problems stating his case in a clear and coherent manner, and has difficulty remembering names are in his notes for him to find them. He is a likeable old man, but and with respect he is not a Presidential figure.

The Republican Party are at this moment in time  countering allegations that their members were knowledgeable about the 6 January riots or insurrection, and are it seems prepared to put Donald Trump in power whether lawfully elected or not. The rancour has come to a stage where a full legal properly oriented election result will not be accepted, and who would dare to predict the fallout. The upcoming midterm elections will have a major affect on the future of the United States, it will be an exciting election, but should be tinged by some concern as to the reaction if results for some have a negative connotation. 

As a non American who as a child in Edinburgh met many American servicemen and found them a pleasure to meet, having watched numerous Presidents some popular some not, but all in a way treated with respect, having visited and spent many many hours in the United States I have the greatest respect for the people and the Country, but also have a deep sadness about the Country of today and its future.

 

 

[JFK-1]

Trumps ex personal lawyer Michael Cohen keeps insisting Trump will face criminal charges, and he has a solid record of being right when commenting on Trump. He also insists Trump wont be running in 2024.

The charade of saying maybe I will maybe I wont is just a continuation of the 'grift'. As long as the maga halfwits keep sending money he will continue saying whatever gets them to send it.

Michael Cohen Tells Me Trump WILL BE Charged for Crimes

 

 

[JFK-1]

Biden Won Big With a Bad Hand - Relative to its strength in Congress, the Biden administration has proved outstandingly successful. By David Frum

David Frum is a staff writer at The Atlantic and the author of Trumpocalypse: Restoring American Democracy (2020). In 2001 and 2002, he was a speechwriter for President George W. Bush.

DECEMBER 22, 2021, 6 AM ET
 

Quote

 

Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia is taking heat for sinking, at least for the moment, the Biden administration’s Build Back Better Act. But before pointing fingers, Democrats should use those fingers to count votes.

The past may cast some light on the politics of narrow majorities. Republicans had a bad election in 2000. They lost two seats in the House, reducing their majority in that chamber to a precarious three votes.

Republicans lost four seats in the Senate, resulting in a 50–50 tie. Vice President Dick Cheney was the tie-breaking vote in the Senate, just as Vice President Kamala Harris is now. And, of course, George W. Bush entered the presidency under the cloud of the Florida recount, having lost the national popular vote to Al Gore.

This outcome severely limited the new President Bush’s governing options, especially before the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, reshaped U.S. politics.

Bush shrank his legislative agenda to two broadly popular items: first, a tax cut that passed the House with 230 votes and the Senate with 58; then an education bill that passed early in 2002 with 381 votes in the House and 87 in the Senate.

Like Biden’s ambitions, the Bush administration’s first-year agenda was beholden to the least reliable members of the president’s party in the Senate. In 2001, those were Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island and James Jeffords of Vermont. Jeffords would switch parties in 2001, tipping the partisan balance of the Senate.

The whims and vagaries of those two officeholders transfixed and baffled the Bush White House just as the moods and caprices of Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema transfix and baffle the Biden White House now.

Bush took office at a more placid time than Biden did. He arrived with a less ambitious legislative agenda too. But if the times have changed, the grammar of power has not.

“When I cannot get a dinner to suit my taste, I endeavor to get a taste to suit my dinner.” That was Washington Irving’s advice to travelers. It’s good advice for politicians too.

Relative to its strength in Congress, the Biden administration has proved outstandingly successful. In 11 months, Biden has done more with 50 Democratic senators than Barack Obama did with 57.

He signed a $1.9 trillion COVID-relief bill in March 2021: $1,400-per-person direct payments, $350 billion in aid to state and local governments, an extension of supplemental unemployment-insurance benefits and subsidies under the Affordable Care Act.

He signed a $1 trillion infrastructure bill in November. He signed some 75 executive orders, many of them advancing liberal immigration goals. He’s also won confirmation for some 40 federal judges, more than any first-year president since Ronald Reagan, and twice as many as Donald Trump confirmed in his first year with a 54-vote Senate majority.
 

But sooner or later, Biden was bound to bump into congressional constraints.
 

Indeed, from a progressive point of view, it’s a miracle that he did not bump into those constraints even sooner than he did. Had Trump accepted defeat in November with any kind of grace or decency, Republicans would surely have held at least one of the two Georgia Senate seats, and President Biden would have had to negotiate his agenda past Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.
 

It’s bad psychology and worse political science to use electoral outcomes to make grand pronouncements about public opinion. But if we should be very careful in our statements about what voters wanted, we can easily see what the electoral system delivered.

That system delivered a decisive repudiation of the Trump presidency in the presidential election in November, then a repudiation of the Trump post-presidency in Georgia in January. Beyond that, however, the system did not deliver the opportunity for progressive change that it delivered in 2008, let alone in 1964 or 1932.
 

Instead of fulminating against Manchin for calling quits when he did, Democrats might want to reflect on how much of their agenda got enacted only thanks to the team spirit of a senator from a state that Trump won in 2020 by 39 points.

Anybody can win a poker game with a good hand. It takes a real maestro to play a bad one.

Biden won a bigger pool with worse cards than any Democratic president ever. He won that pool because Manchin gave Biden more loyalty under more adverse conditions than the moderate Democrats of 2009 gave to President Obama.

Perhaps it’s not the nature of Democrats to appreciate the glass half full. But half full it is.

The Democrats have a year remaining in the present Congress. That’s too little time to waste on recrimination, but time enough to secure voting rights, to accelerate the shift to carbon-zero fuels, and to complete and publish the investigation into the attack on Congress on January 6, 2021. A rebuff is not a retreat. It’s a sign to proceed in a different direction.

 https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/12/joe-manchin-biden-majority-agenda/621085/

 

 

[JFK-1]

Bill unveils a very special offer for the right-wingers who are now proudly owning their role in the January 6th insurrection.
 

 

[JFK-1]

The MAGA nuts going off the rails because Trump said people should get vaccinated. After everything Trump has said and done, this wacko thinks this requires an "intervention" from his friends and family.

As that respected journalist, "i'm just playing a character if you sue me" Alex Jones sits nodding sagely away.

 

 

[JFK-1]

 

Chilling Trump Letter Called for "Seizure" of Election Materials

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Trump, Trump Jr & Ivanka have all been subpoenaed by a court in New York to testify in a case against the Trump Organisation.

https://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-and-two-of-his-children-subpoenaed-in-fraud-investigation-into-family-business-12508637

 

 

[Cade]

Marjorie Taylor Green permanently banned from both Twitter and Facebook.

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 minutes ago, Cade said:

Marjorie Taylor Green permanently banned from both Twitter and Facebook.

 

She a poor excuse for a Human Being.

[Cade]

New poll out:

 

"Do you believe that Jo Biden's election win was legitimate?"

 

55% yes

40% no

5% don't know

 

Surely tae feck a Civil War is on the cards in the next few years.

[JackLadd]

3 hours ago, Cade said:

New poll out:

 

"Do you believe that Jo Biden's election win was legitimate?"

 

55% yes

40% no

5% don't know

 

Surely tae feck a Civil War is on the cards in the next few years.

 

40% believing a madman like Trump is fertile ground for violence when you have 400m plus weapons in circulation 

 

[Sharpie]

The committee investigating the incident are really getting at Trump supporters, many of them e mailed and contacted Trump at the time to tell him to get it stopped, Sean Hannity of Fox News was one of them, and he had been in touch regularly with Trump promoting the stolen election claim. Someone mentioned a Civil War there is a new book out by one of those experts and he claims that it is guaranteed sometime in the next three years, worrying claim because Trump has many staunch followers serving in government and some are senior members of the military, many military and police personnel are also suggested. The upcoming midterm elections will tell the tale.

Biden does nothing to help, yesterday he was giving a rambling talk from the White House and referred to the present day as being 2020. A mistake but one of many and one by a dithering old man who is dealing with imminent Russian military action against Ukraine. 

 

[Unknown user]

5 hours ago, Cade said:

New poll out:

 

"Do you believe that Jo Biden's election win was legitimate?"

 

55% yes

40% no

5% don't know

 

Surely tae feck a Civil War is on the cards in the next few years.

I read a thing talking about the likelihood of a far right dictatorship over there. We've been lucky with trump, he's a ****ing idiot, but if someone selfish, cynical, bullish and actually has half a brain gets in they could be in trouble.

[JFK-1]

UPDATE: January 6 Insurrection: What's Happened Since? (full documentary) | FRONTLINE

 

 

[JFK-1]

5 hours ago, JackLadd said:

 

40% believing a madman like Trump is fertile ground for violence when you have 400m plus weapons in circulation 

 

 

I don't believe they believe it. Or at least not all of them. You seriously think all the republican politicians who support this steal fantasy actually believe it? They don't, but they will say they do.

And I think many of the sheep do the same thing. Why wouldn't they? It's exactly what Trump does, has always done. Says things that are absolutely absurd, unbelievable, but insists it's true.

This is dangerous normalisation of complete insanity and I see no way out of it for this nation. A nation that has always had some sort of view of itself not just as special but specially favoured by God himself.

Looks like Trump is their anti Christ.

[JackLadd]

Biden just nailed all the Jan 6th bstrds to the cross with that speech. 

[Riccarton3]

7 hours ago, JackLadd said:

Biden just nailed all the Jan 6th bstrds to the cross with that speech. 

Don't you mean the political prisoners?

[Tazio]

Trumps tweet last year after it all kicked off popped up on my Facebook memories today. 

“These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!”

[JFK-1]

MAGA REVOLT: Lunatics Attack Trump, Call Him "B!tc&," Burn Hats

 

 

[Sharpie]

1 hour ago, Tazio said:

Trumps tweet last year after it all kicked off popped up on my Facebook memories today. 

“These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!”

 

I just looked back at one of my many rambling old fart posts on 3 January 2021, in it I mentioned my views on the 6th January plan, I commented that it could cause injury and even deaths if carried out. I was correct, I have often wondered how could an old longtime retired Polis see the possibilities, yet two major police departments, Capitol and DC  took minimal actions to stop this from getting to what it became. Just the number of persons coming in to town would I believe in my tome have caused concerns and interim plans. There was collusion at all levels and all ares in allowing that whole fiasco to happen, some senior people should be sitting with their head in their hands wondering why they were so  easily manipulated. 

[JFK-1]

They need to find a way to knock this shit on they head and fast, and I don't think they can. To knock this shit on the head totally Trump and others would need to face some major punishment.

Put aside all the drivel around his exact words being arguably something less than outright saying storm that building. The message was perfectly clear, one of the cops under siege at the Capitol said they were actually saying to him "Trump sent us"

There was all along a plot acted out right in open view, weeks in the open view preparing, to disrupt and hopefully halt this democratic process. It was a coup attempt.

If the house hadn't reconvened to rubber stamp it that night Trump would still have been President. And capable of anything. Declare martial law and retain control for emergency purposes. Then go from there dismantling the entire electoral result.

I don't doubt for a moment that would have played out, I don't know if it would have been successful. Forget the nutters on social media etc.

Everybody within current high level US politics who has an iota of intelligence knows that's what went down here. And the nut is trying to continue it. Even Hitler got 9 months or something for the Beer Hall putsch. 

[ri Alban]

Handmaid's tale is fiction, right?

[JFK-1]

Jason Stanley Warns: "America Is Now in Fascism’s Legal Phase"

 

 

[Mikey1874]

 

[JFK-1]

Georgia Has a Very Strong Case Against Trump

To see the most compelling evidence of the former president’s criminality, look to the Peach State.

JANUARY 21, 2022, 10:14 AM ET
 

Yesterday, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis sent a letter to the chief judge of the Fulton County Superior Court requesting to empanel a special grand jury “for the purpose of investigating the facts and circumstances relating directly or indirectly to possible attempts to disrupt the lawful administration of the 2020 elections in the State of Georgia.”

The request was triggered by the reluctance of key witnesses, including Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, to cooperate without being subpoenaed to testify. The special-purpose grand jury wouldn’t have the power to bring indictments, but it “may make recommendations concerning criminal prosecution as it shall see fit.”

With this letter, Willis brought back to the fore the actions surrounding the 2020 election contest by former President Donald Trump that are most suspect under both state and federal criminal law. The district attorney seeks a special grand jury with good reason, as Trump appears to have crossed the line into outright illegality, and that behavior merits a serious and thorough criminal investigation.

Since last winter, the public has focused much of its attention on the violent right-wing terror attack on the Capitol on January 6. And this is understandable. But the truth is that the most compelling evidence of Trump’s criminality lies in his actions before that day. And nowhere is his misconduct more clearly documented than in the state of Georgia.

A brief refresher is in order. At 3 p.m on Saturday, January 2, 2021, Trump called Raffensperger and attempted to push him to intervene in the counting of Georgia’s presidential votes. “I have to find 12,000 votes,” Trump said. Trump was joined on the call by his chief of staff, Mark Meadows, and a team of lawyers including Cleta Mitchell. At the beginning of the call, Trump declared, “I think it’s pretty clear that we won. We won very substantially in Georgia.”

During the call, Trump made a series of spurious claims of voter fraud and announced that he had “probably” won by half a million votes. And then he said the following, words that should be front and center in any criminal investigation of the former president:
 

Quote

And you’re going to find that they are—which is totally illegal, it is more illegal for you than it is for them, because you know what they did, and you’re not reporting it.

That’s a criminal, that’s a criminal offense. And you can’t let that happen. That’s a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer.

And that’s a big risk … I’m notifying you that you’re letting it happen. So look. All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state.

 

Ominously, these rambling demands that Raffensperger change the outcome of the presidential election in Georgia contained the threatening assertion that if Raffensperger didn’t yield, he could face criminal sanctions more severe than the sanctions for those Trump accused of casting illegal ballots.

Trump, in a statement distributed by email yesterday, said that his call to Raffensperger “was perfect, perhaps even more so than my call with the Ukrainian President, if that’s possible,” and repeated his false claim that “massive voter fraud” occurred in Georgia.

As astonishing as the details of that phone call are, the call represents but one part of Trump’s efforts to influence the outcome of the Georgia vote. The Senate Judiciary Committee’s majority staff report, released on October 7, found that Trump also forced the resignation of the U.S. attorney for the Northern District of Georgia, Byung Jin Pak, after Pak investigated and “did not substantiate” Trump’s claims of election fraud in Georgia.

Indeed, that same report indicates that Trump’s designs on changing the outcome of the election in Georgia played a key role in his repeated demands that the Department of Justice investigate and take action on a number of wholly false claims of electoral fraud and illegality.

Georgia also figured prominently in a December 27, 2020, phone call with then–Acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen, during which Trump allegedly told Rosen, “Just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the [Republican] congressmen.” Jeffrey Clark, the former acting assistant attorney general for the Justice Department’s Civil Division, separately threatened Rosen’s job if he didn’t use the DOJ to coerce Georgia and other states to certify a new slate of electors.

Of course, the efforts regarding Georgia were elements of a much larger effort to undermine and reverse the entire election. Most notably, we know that both behind the scenes and right out in the open Trump was demanding that Vice President Mike Pence take action to, at the very least, unlawfully delay the counting and certification of the Electoral College votes on January 6.

But the question remains: Were Trump’s attempts to reverse the outcome in Georgia (and nationally) criminal? There is compelling evidence that they were, under both Georgia state law and federal criminal statutes.

Perhaps the best guide to why is a Brookings Institution report, published in October, that assessed Trump’s actions in light of Georgia criminal law. Among the seven lawyers and scholars who wrote the report was Gwen Keyes Fleming, an experienced former Georgia prosecutor and the former DeKalb County district attorney. The report concluded that “Trump’s post-election conduct in Georgia leaves him at substantial risk of possible state charges predicated on multiple crimes.” The crimes include “criminal solicitation to commit election fraud” and “conspiracy to commit election fraud,” among others.

I highlight those two statutes because they most plainly apply on their face. Georgia’s conspiracy-to-commit-election-fraud statute makes it a crime when one “conspires or agrees with another” to violate Georgia’s election laws and, crucially, states that “the crime shall be complete when the conspiracy or agreement is effected and an overt act in furtherance thereof has been committed, regardless of whether the violation of this chapter is consummated.” In other words, the scheme does not have to succeed to be criminal.

Georgia’s relevant criminal-solicitation statute is also both straightforward and deeply problematic for Trump. Its first provision states:
 

Quote

A person commits the offense of criminal solicitation to commit election fraud in the first degree when, with intent that another person engage in conduct constituting a felony under this article, he or she solicits, requests, commands, importunes, or otherwise attempts to cause the other person to engage in such conduct.

 

And what is the precise violation of Georgia election law that Trump was conspiring to commit and soliciting others to commit? His demands implicate a number of laws, but among the most applicable is Georgia Code Section 21-2-566, which prohibits willfully tampering “with any electors list, voter’s certificate, numbered list of voters, ballot box, voting machine, direct recording electronic (DRE) equipment, electronic ballot marker, or tabulating machine.”

As the Brookings report notes, Trump’s demands to Raffensperger appear to represent a “clear request” that “Raffensperger alter the final vote tallies so that Trump would appear to have won the election.” If Raffensperger had done so, he’d have tampered “with lists of voters, voting machines, ballot records, DRE equipment, tabulating machines, or voter/ballot data uploaded to the secretary of state website from tabulating machines and DRE equipment.”

Although Willis is investigating violations of state law, federal laws may apply as well, most notably a broad federal statute, 18 U.S. Code Section 241, that prohibits “conspiracy against rights.” The relevant language makes it unlawful for two or more people to “conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States.”

As with many federal criminal statutes, broad language is narrowed and defined by precedent, and the precedents under Section 241 are problematic for Trump. The scope of the statute was outlined in a December 2017 guidebook, and its words are instructive.

First, it is unambiguous that the right to vote in federal and state elections is among the rights protected by the statute. Even though the misconduct may have been aimed at the election of Georgia’s slate of presidential electors, federal criminal law still applies.

Second, a number of past cases are directly relevant to the actions and intent of the Trump scheme. For example, previous cases have held that it’s unlawful to prevent the counting of ballots, fail to count votes, alter votes already counted, or change votes cast at voting machines. The Trump plan depended on changing outcomes by failing to count votes or adding votes until the totals tipped over in Trump’s favor.

Third, just as with Georgia law, the conspiracy does not have to succeed for criminal liability to attach. Moreover, the guidebook states, “Section 241 reaches conduct affecting the integrity of the federal election process as a whole, and does not require fraudulent action with respect to any particular voter.”

Other statutes may also apply, including 18 U.S. Code Section 610, which makes it unlawful for any person to intimidate, threaten, command, or coerce federal employees to engage in political activities, including working for candidates, and 52 U.S. Code Section 20511(2), which makes it a crime when someone “knowingly and willfully deprives, defrauds, or attempts to deprive or defraud the residents of a State of a fair and impartially conducted election process.” But these lack the voluminous precedent of Section 241 and might present a more difficult path for the prosecution.

The Georgia investigation is a consequential victory for the rule of law in this country. Its very existence signals that no man or woman is above the law, a concept foundational to the American experiment. When you walk through the evidence of Trump’s brazen effort to bully, threaten, and command subordinates and state officials to steal an election, his actions quite obviously demand a close criminal inquiry.

For a sitting American president to seek to engineer a coup is unprecedented, but our law contains ample precedents that punish other citizens for similar misconduct. The law is not just for the little people. Trump is not a king. He does not enjoy sovereign immunity. He is presently nothing more than a private citizen, and if President Trump broke the law, then Citizen Trump should face the consequences.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/01/georgia-path-potentially-prosecuting-trump/621326/

[Sharpie]

The problem as I see it now is that the whole Trump Presidency has revealed a series of alleged corruption involving Income tax, lies regarding values of properties, lies regarding insurrection, efforts through suggested criminal acts to change the election results, a series of associates who are now suspected and accused of lies, misleading documents to prove election fraud and it seems more criminal activity than was even alleged against the Mafia. Meanwhile the Country is being led by a mentally ravaged, rapidly aging old man, who cannot even remember the name of the man sitting next to him. There are so many allegations against Trump that at his advanced age he will never be processed for any of them, how can a Country with a population of mega millions have ever put themselves by legal election in the state they are currently in. At least one person can clearly see the state of disarray in leadership the United States is suffering, his name is   Putin. Stand by for China to get their nickels worth in soon.

[JFK-1]

I don't think Biden is as bad as he's being depicted to be, and I don't think there's a serious issue around him. Sure he doesn't speak well in public but that's hardly uncommon especially in later years. Anybody can forget a name of someone you have just come into contact with, I have done it myself.

Off stage he will be perfectly lucid in policy discussions and most importantly amenable to advice from people who know more than he does on a specific subject.

Unlike the maniac Trump who thinks he knows more about everything than anybody else knows about anything. 

[Ked]

2 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

I don't think Biden is as bad as he's being depicted to be, and I don't think there's a serious issue around him. Sure he doesn't speak well in public but that's hardly uncommon especially in later years. Anybody can forget a name of someone you have just come into contact with, I have done it myself.

Off stage he will be perfectly lucid in policy discussions and most importantly amenable to advice from people who know more than he does on a specific subject.

Unlike the maniac Trump who thinks he knows more about everything than anybody else knows about anything. 

Being better than Trump is hardly a high bar.Biden is hopeless as a President.

[Sharpie]

Watched Fox last night, Hannity had a guest who is a strong Trump supporter. Hannity asked him about Bidens cognitive condition and if he, Biden, was mentally unstable. The guest said no to both, he gave reasons for his opinion that made sense, Hannity was beside himself, twisting comments, almost begging for negative responses, and on closing the session went into a tirade against Biden. I don't know but for me it is difficult  to be convinced by a man who comes on air every night, with a made up tanned complexion, and then in his enthusiasm waves his fish belly white hands, when I had deep tans my hands were brown also.  I guess it is a thing of mine but I am a bit of a stickler about detail.

 

 

 

 

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, Sharpie said:

Watched Fox last night, Hannity had a guest who is a strong Trump supporter. Hannity asked him about Bidens cognitive condition and if he, Biden, was mentally unstable. The guest said no to both, he gave reasons for his opinion that made sense, Hannity was beside himself, twisting comments, almost begging for negative responses, and on closing the session went into a tirade against Biden. I don't know but for me it is difficult  to be convinced by a man who comes on air every night, with a made up tanned complexion, and then in his enthusiasm waves his fish belly white hands, when I had deep tans my hands were brown also.  I guess it is a thing of mine but I am a bit of a stickler about detail.

 

 

 

 

Get yersel to Vegas and stop watching these heidbangers, Sharpie. Even just for a weekend.

[Sharpie]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Get yersel to Vegas and stop watching these heidbangers, Sharpie. Even just for a weekend.

 I'm afraid Vegas is a thing of the past. I always took out travel insurance for Esther and I when we went anywhere. We got back from Vegas after our last trip to be advised that there was no longer a five year free of illness clause, that any illness you have had would be considered in your past . As a result my insurance  went sky high, now of course I am solo and would not fly to Vegas without my copilot. There used to be a comedian on TV that always said, "its being so miserable that keeps me going" thats my new motto, but thanks for caring Bud. 

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, Sharpie said:

 I'm afraid Vegas is a thing of the past. I always took out travel insurance for Esther and I when we went anywhere. We got back from Vegas after our last trip to be advised that there was no longer a five year free of illness clause, that any illness you have had would be considered in your past . As a result my insurance  went sky high, now of course I am solo and would not fly to Vegas without my copilot. There used to be a comedian on TV that always said, "its being so miserable that keeps me going" thats my new motto, but thanks for caring Bud. 

👍  

 

Hopefully directed at that neighbour of yours.

 

[JFK-1]

22 hours ago, Ked said:

Being better than Trump is hardly a high bar.Biden is hopeless as a President.

 

Being better than Trump is easy, Homer Simson would be better and smarter. Biden is a great President.

[Jeffros Furios]

15 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Being better than Trump is easy, Homer Simson would be better and smarter. Biden is a great President.

Biden's actions in Afghanistan was far from great .

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Being better than Trump is easy, Homer Simson would be better and smarter. Biden is a great President.