British IS schoolgirl wants to return home

[Jambo-Jimbo]

9 hours ago, the posh bit said:

 

Why did you use the word 'breeding?' 

 

That's what they did, wasn't it, or would you have prefered that I had said baby machine or produce the next generation of jihadi's.

[John Findlay]

4 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Yup. If that is indeed the case, then we were within our rights to withdraw her British citizenship, and she is now Bangladesh's problem. I imagine that the lawyers will have a field day deciding whether that is the case or not.

I'm sure the lawyers have £ signs in their eyes for months to come.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

7 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

I'm sure the lawyers have £ signs in their eyes for months to come.

 

Hence why you get appeal after appeal after appeal and all the time the lawyers rake it in.

[John Gentleman]

On 15/02/2019 at 11:15, Zico said:

You absolutely can take their citizenship comrade. You’re getting confused with making them stateless (I’d advocate that too but the UN might frown in our direction if we did that). I’d prefer worse but this is a family forum. And the latter is, of course, far more mercy than enjoyed by the Yazidis, Shia Turkmen etc. 

 

Wouldn't stripping them of their citizenship render them stateless? Assuming there's no existing citizenship of another country, that is.

[New Town Loafer]

Just disappear her. She's a waste of skin.

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, New Town Loafer said:

Just disappear her. She's a waste of skin.

 

Aye, a legitimate approach if you're living in a fascist or authoritarian régime I suppose. If you start disappearing folk though, where do you stop? There are plenty countries around the world who mourn their "disappeared". She needs to be held to account for her actions, but as a country you either have to decide whether you're going to try to stick to rule of law, and that includes international law, or not. I'd prefer that we did.

[JudyJudyJudy]

11 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Aye, a legitimate approach if you're living in a fascist or authoritarian régime I suppose. If you start disappearing folk though, where do you stop? There are plenty countries around the world who mourn their "disappeared". She needs to be held to account for her actions, but as a country you either have to decide whether you're going to try to stick to rule of law, and that includes international law, or not. I'd prefer that we did.

👍

[JudyJudyJudy]

21 hours ago, davemclaren said:

A male ISIS bride would be a bit odd though. 

LOL oh id love to see that  

[trotter]

15 hours ago, the posh bit said:

 

Why did you use the word 'breeding?' 

Because in effect, that's what ISIS were doing with all these young girls/women that ended up in their clutches.

[Unknown user]

4 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

Aye, a legitimate approach if you're living in a fascist or authoritarian régime I suppose. If you start disappearing folk though, where do you stop? There are plenty countries around the world who mourn their "disappeared". She needs to be held to account for her actions, but as a country you either have to decide whether you're going to try to stick to rule of law, and that includes international law, or not. I'd prefer that we did.

 

As I understand it, she's never been a citizen of anywhere else, and Britain are chancing their arm on the fact that she COULD qualify for Bangladeshi citizenship, so **** her.

[Australis]

I hope she is never allowed back.

 

She knew what she was doing and thought being an Isis spunk bucket was being clever.

 

Terrorist with no regrets, keep her out and hope she disappears.

 

And as said above would have been a year away from being able to vote in a Scottish election.

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Australis

[Jambof3tornado]

19 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

14 months on and absolutely no change. We must not cave on this utterly rancid human.

This,absolutely totally and utterly do not let this ^^^^ back into the uk. She knew exactly what she was doing.

 

Hell mend her.

[davemclaren]

It will, and should, come down to whether the government has acted legally or not.  

[BlueRiver]

Isn't Bangladeshi citizenship automatically conferred if you're born to Bangladeshi parents therefore that was the basis for the withdrawal? 

[davemclaren]

14 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

Isn't Bangladeshi citizenship automatically conferred if you're born to Bangladeshi parents therefore that was the basis for the withdrawal? 

We'll find out soon. 

[BlueRiver]

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

We'll find out soon. 

 

Surprised it needs a court hearing when surely a quick Google would sort it out!

 

To be fair haven't been paying the most attention to this so don't know what else is at play. 

 

Tentative blind punt - Javid's decision upheld as lawful 

[davemclaren]

5 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

Surprised it needs a court hearing when surely a quick Google would sort it out!

 

To be fair haven't been paying the most attention to this so don't know what else is at play. 

 

Tentative blind punt - Javid's decision upheld as lawful 

Clearly her lawyers belive it isn't as straightforward as that. That's why we have a justice system. 

[BlueRiver]

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Clearly her lawyers belive it isn't as straightforward as that. That's why we have a justice system. 

 

No need to be patronising. They're actually challenging the decision based on other aspects as well. I know fine well why we have a justice system and wager I know it a lot better than you. 

[davemclaren]

3 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

No need to be patronising. They're actually challenging the decision based on other aspects as well. I know fine well why we have a justice system and wager I know it a lot better than you. 

Don't be so patronising. 😉

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

No need to be patronising. They're actually challenging the decision based on other aspects as well. I know fine well why we have a justice system and wager I know it a lot better than you. 

 

[BlueRiver]

Just now, davemclaren said:

Don't be so patronising. 😉

 

🤣 fair point well made.

 

 

 

 

[SectionDJambo]

I just wonder if her regret at being sucked into, and seemingly being a contented member of, ISIS is due to them being routed and driven out of the territory they thought they had taken forever.

The experiences of people who suffered under them are horrific to hear. At the very least, she should be held in a secure location and be interrogated to find out who radicalised her, as she claims happened. With no information to help our security services, she should then be held until a court of law decides she wasn’t a security risk.

[davemclaren]

35 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

I just wonder if her regret at being sucked into, and seemingly being a contented member of, ISIS is due to them being routed and driven out of the territory they thought they had taken forever.

The experiences of people who suffered under them are horrific to hear. At the very least, she should be held in a secure location and be interrogated to find out who radicalised her, as she claims happened. With no information to help our security services, she should then be held until a court of law decides she wasn’t a security risk.

She's not even in the UK so until the issue of her citizenship is resolved ( in court ) the rest is pretty academic. 

[JFK-1]

I think I would go along with the feeling that if it had not fallen apart for ISIS she would still be glorying in it. I don't know what she says about it now, it was bad? All those jihadis are bad men?

 

I don't see her view of the ideology changing, what I would expect is exactly what i'm apparently seeing, this has gone right down the pan, get me out of here. As for claims of some sort of grooming and whether that should be a redemptive feature in her defence would be up to better qualified than me to decide.

 

My view of it if I were Government/Security services would probably be I think she is probably still devoted to this ideology and could be a magnet for further potential jihadi devotees. And may actually go on to surreptitiously set off other young girls to emulate her feats.

 

Presumably she would be watched like a hawk, or at least for a while. But all that wouldn't stop her from being some sort of jihadi celebrity in the mix. Where do the obligations of the country lie in such a situation? Presuming say they even agreed that claims of grooming completely clears you.

 

Is the danger she could present the major factor? Taking precedence over anything else?    

 

 

[iantjambo]

She’s always maintained that she still believes in their cause. As the poster above said, she would still be happy to revel in it, if ISIS still had a strong hand in the territory.

As I’ve said a hundred times before, leave the wee bitch to wallow in the shit-pit that she’s created for herself.

[il Duce McTarkin]

On 24/11/2022 at 00:51, redjambo said:

 

She certainly has committed abhorrent crimes. However, we have to live up to our obligations under international law. And those obligations include not leaving anyone stateless, if that turns out to be the case with her. The human rights provisions that protect people from becoming stateless protect a great number of innocent and good people. It's just unfortunate that they also, in some cases, protect not so good people. But we can't pick and choose, because if that happens then the provisions become arbitrary and thus worthless.

 

 

He who fights with monsters...

 

On 24/11/2022 at 10:57, New Town Loafer said:

Just disappear her. She's a waste of skin.

 

Tempting. Now that all her bairns are all pan bread is there any practical point in leaving her alive?

 

As Dr Mengle highlighted above, if she was a bloke this would probably be the default position for the vast majority.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by Dirk McClaymore

[fabienleclerq]

On 23/11/2022 at 23:20, Smithee said:

She was 15 and a half when she left, the brainwashing happened in the couple of years before that, and she wasn't an adult at 13

 

At 13 were you aware beheading someone because they don't agree with what you and your pals think was OK?

 

Even if you did, is it relevant what age she was groomed at? She's quite obviously not really reformed and changed her thought processes so would you want her running about near you? 

 

If Isis were still about we she wouldn't want back. She can wallow in the mess she's created for herself.

[New Town Loafer]

59 minutes ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

 

Tempting. Now that all her bairns are all pan bread is there any practical point in leaving her alive?

 

As Dr Mengle highlighted above, if she was a bloke this would probably be the default position for the vast majority.

 

 

 

 

Yep. And slightly ridiculous of me but I find women who commit these types of atrocities to be even more contemptible than men who do the same.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

It must be weird being a lawyer. Having to pretend that you sympathise with someone like Begum, for money.

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

At 13 were you aware beheading someone because they don't agree with what you and your pals think was OK?

 

Even if you did, is it relevant what age she was groomed at? She's quite obviously not really reformed and changed her thought processes so would you want her running about near you? 

 

If Isis were still about we she wouldn't want back. She can wallow in the mess she's created for herself.

 

My head was full of shit when I was 13, I was a child with an immature brain, easily influenced and manipulated.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Smithee

[fabienleclerq]

2 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

My head was full of shit when I was 13, I was a child with an immature brain, easily influenced and manipulated.

 

To the point you'd decide to join a terrorist group ? You didn't know at 13 that wasn't right?

[Jambo-Jimbo]

4 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

My head was full of shit when I was 13, I was a child with an immature brain, easily influenced and manipulated.

 

By all accounts she wasn't immature though, she was a straight A student, a very clever lassie according to those who knew her.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

4 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

It must be weird being a lawyer. Having to pretend that you sympathise with someone like Begum, for money.

 

As long as the money keeps rolling in then I don't think they'll lose any sleep over it.

[Unknown user]

37 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

By all accounts she wasn't immature though, she was a straight A student, a very clever lassie according to those who knew her.

 

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, she was indoctrinated into an alternative belief.

 

Being good at school isn't the same as being mature, which is why everyone gets enraged when 13 year old lassies are groomed for sex.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

30 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, she was indoctrinated into an alternative belief.

 

Being good at school isn't the same as being mature, which is why everyone gets enraged when 13 year old lassies are groomed for sex.

 

Even at only 13 there can be a whole world of a difference between the maturity of one boy/girl to another 13 yr old, the same is true for a 25 yr old, some are more mature than others.

 

All of my 3 children had different levels of maturity at the age of 10 or 13 or 15 or even 20, it all comes down to the individual.

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, she was indoctrinated into an alternative belief.

 

Being good at school isn't the same as being mature, which is why everyone gets enraged when 13 year old lassies are groomed for sex.

Exactly who's and what freedom was she fighting for?

[redjambo]

22 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Exactly who's and what freedom was she fighting for?

 

The freedom of those who follow her religion to have their own global caliphate where pure Islam, or their interpretation of it, could be practised without hindrance by all Muslims worldwide. Or something like that, I imagine.

[John Findlay]

20 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

The freedom of those who follow her religion to have their own global caliphate where pure Islam, or their interpretation of it, could be practised without hindrance by all Muslims worldwide. Or something like that, I imagine.

She never heard of Iran, Qatar, or Saudi Arabia for starters?

[Ked]

If she had been groomed by paedophiles there'd be more sympathy.

She was groomed by other horrible people.

She was a child born in this country.

We are responsible for her .How we choose to let her live her life here is a different matter.Our own government recognises the maturity of young adults minds and criminality.

Hers was a particularly brutal episode.

Bottom line like it or not she's ours .

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

She never heard of Iran, Qatar, or Saudi Arabia for starters?

 

Iran is Shia. The other two are Wahhabi/Salafi states, granted, but IS would consider them soft, particularly in their attitude towards Sufis, and recent reforms.

 

Islam isn't homogenous in the same way that Christianity isn't homogenous. IS is much like other branches of religion with specific desires to set up an area where their religion can be practised in relative purity, such as the Mormons who sought out their "promised land" on their long trip westwards. The difference with IS is that their aims are not only megalomaniacal but their methods also incorporate extreme violence and oppression.

[John Findlay]

34 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Iran is Shia. The other two are Wahhabi/Salafi states, granted, but IS would consider them soft, particularly in their attitude towards Sufis, and recent reforms.

 

Islam isn't homogenous in the same way that Christianity isn't homogenous. IS is much like other branches of religion with specific desires to set up an area where their religion can be practised in relative purity, such as the Mormons who sought out their "promised land" on their long trip westwards. The difference with IS is that their aims are not only megalomaniacal but their methods also incorporate extreme violence and oppression.

So there is no excuse for her. Let her suffer.

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, Ked said:

If she had been groomed by paedophiles there'd be more sympathy.

She was groomed by other horrible people.

She was a child born in this country.

We are responsible for her .How we choose to let her live her life here is a different matter.Our own government recognises the maturity of young adults minds and criminality.

Hers was a particularly brutal episode.

Bottom line like it or not she's ours .

[fabienleclerq]

8 hours ago, Ked said:

If she had been groomed by paedophiles there'd be more sympathy.

She was groomed by other horrible people.

She was a child born in this country.

We are responsible for her .How we choose to let her live her life here is a different matter.Our own government recognises the maturity of young adults minds and criminality.

Hers was a particularly brutal episode.

Bottom line like it or not she's ours .

 

Your comparing apples and pears.

 

If she'd been groomed by paedophiles then she had went on to become one,grooming others and then sending them to blow themselves up and all the while slating our culture and way of life and wanting to kill us all you might have a point.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by fabienleclerq

[IronJambo]

This lassie stitched people into suicide vests. She wasn't phased by people being beheaded. In the first instance she showed no remorse and stated she wasn't sorry for any of it. Whether this has changed to try and strengthen her defence or not I don't know.

Nobody can defend that. It wasn't a wee 15 year old lassie that was quite happy and comfortable with how she had spent her time since sneaking out the UK.

[Ked]

7 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

Your comparing apples and pears.

 

If she'd been groomed by paedophiles then she had went on to become one,grooming others and then sending them to blow themselves up and all the while slating our culture and way of life and wanting to kill us all you might have a point.

 

 

It's hard to imagine the violence she was part of and her involvement in it.

Yes it wasn't the best example I gave.

And if the caliphate she was a part of hadn't been defeated then she'd be even further down the rabbit hole.

I'm not excusing her from that.

 

 

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

22 hours ago, John Findlay said:

So there is no excuse for her. Let her suffer.

Agree 100%. No surprise that those excusing her are those who despise UK themselves.

I've no doubt that she's taken part in atrocities herself and acted as executioner to those who didn't fit the caliphate's image of good Muslims. Even if that evidence was produced, they would still be willing to forgive, unless of course, she came out against Scottish independence.

 

[redjambo]

15 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Agree 100%. No surprise that those excusing her are those who despise UK themselves.

I've no doubt that she's taken part in atrocities herself and acted as executioner to those who didn't fit the caliphate's image of good Muslims. Even if that evidence was produced, they would still be willing to forgive, unless of course, she came out against Scottish independence.

 

 

Even on a thread about the fate of a purportedly vicious member of IS, Malinga comes up trumps and not only manages to bring up Scottish independence but somehow argues that those willing to forgive Begum (of which I see a very small minority in any case) are supporters of Scottish independence.

 

You're going to have to give yourself a reality check some time or you will find yourself so far down the rabbit hole that it will be difficult to extricate yourself. Seriously.

 

I'll give you some clues. Not everything is about Scottish independence. Those who support Scottish independence are not all devils. And back on the subject, the willingness to want to see proper legal justice served on Begum should not be somehow conflated with a willingness to forgive her.

[Malinga the Swinga]

14 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Even on a thread about the fate of a purportedly vicious member of IS, Malinga comes up trumps and not only manages to bring up Scottish independence but somehow argues that those willing to forgive Begum (of which I see a very small minority in any case) are supporters of Scottish independence.

 

You're going to have to give yourself a reality check some time or you will find yourself so far down the rabbit hole that it will be difficult to extricate yourself. Seriously.

 

I'll give you some clues. Not everything is about Scottish independence. Those who support Scottish independence are not all devils. And back on the subject, the willingness to want to see proper legal justice served on Begum should not be somehow conflated with a willingness to forgive her.

It was a joke, albeit not a very good one. 

Now off you pop and have a good night.

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

It was a joke, albeit not a very good one. 

Now off you pop and have a good night.

 

 

 

[Mr Brightside]

On 25/11/2022 at 21:54, Ked said:

If she had been groomed by paedophiles there'd be more sympathy.

She was groomed by other horrible people.

She was a child born in this country.

We are responsible for her .How we choose to let her live her life here is a different matter.Our own government recognises the maturity of young adults minds and criminality.

Hers was a particularly brutal episode.

Bottom line like it or not she's ours .

Came on to say this. 
She should return to the UK and be supervised/ detained depending on what security agencies establish the risk to be.