Cruyff Turn Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 2 hours ago, Smithee said: The asset is actually his registration, if they received that then they'll need to pay. The car and house analogies don't really work, if there were faults hidden you'd probably have a claim, if it was just bad luck it's your bad luck as the new owner. What happens after the transfer of registration is none of Nantes' business, the transaction was completed as agreed and they're due payment. We'll see how it transpires of course but I'd be very surprised if things didn't pan out this way The analogies do work because it’s about negligence. A fee may have been agreed but we don’t know whether the whole thing was completed and whether the player had been registered or any other snags ironed out. Contracts can be void in certain circumstances, this possibly being one of them. You’re quite right, If there is a fault in the house and the survey said there wasn’t and you buy the house that falls down, it isn’t the previous owners fault, it isn’t your fault, the Surveyor would be liable because he or she had a ‘duty of care’. Same with the car, you bought it from a showroom, you exchange cash to buy it but it isn’t the showrooms fault, it is the manufacturer who is liable because they had a ‘duty of care’. It’s the same with Sala’s transfer, it isn’t Nantes fault, it isn’t Cardiff’s, it’s the person who manufactured and facilitated the move, who had a ‘duty of care’ towards the player and Cardiff City’s asset and for that matter Nantes too. Cardiff may have to pay up if there is found to be ‘no one at fault’ and it is a complete accident, (which looks unlikely), but they certainly won’t be immediately or before seeing what the legal grounding is and possibly not before any investigation. So to say ‘Cardiff’ don’t have a leg to stand on is simply not true. That isn’t being tight or harsh on Nantes. They will get their money one way or another. Cardiff are willing to speak to them but aren’t willing to pay because this is entirely about who is liable now, who pays and by the looks of it, agent McKay better have deep pockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Cruyff Turn said: The analogies do work because it’s about negligence. A fee may have been agreed but we don’t know whether the whole thing was completed and whether the player had been registered or any other snags ironed out. Contracts can be void in certain circumstances, this possibly being one of them. You’re quite right, If there is a fault in the house and the survey said there wasn’t and you buy the house that falls down, it isn’t the previous owners fault, it isn’t your fault, the Surveyor would be liable because he or she had a ‘duty of care’. Same with the car, you bought it from a showroom, you exchange cash to buy it but it isn’t the showrooms fault, it is the manufacturer who is liable because they had a ‘duty of care’. It’s the same with Sala’s transfer, it isn’t Nantes fault, it isn’t Cardiff’s, it’s the person who manufactured and facilitated the move, who had a ‘duty of care’ towards the player and Cardiff City’s asset and for that matter Nantes too. Cardiff may have to pay up if there is found to be ‘no one at fault’ and it is a complete accident, (which looks unlikely), but they certainly won’t be immediately or before seeing what the legal grounding is and possibly not before any investigation. So to say ‘Cardiff’ don’t have a leg to stand on is simply not true. That isn’t being tight or harsh on Nantes. They will get their money one way or another. Cardiff are willing to speak to them but aren’t willing to pay because this is entirely about who is liable now, who pays and by the looks of it, agent McKay better have deep pockets. Your mortgage provider would certainly be expecting you to pay your installments and it would be up to you to iron out where that came from. Be it insurance or otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddley Walker Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Hopefully this will be done quietly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 46 minutes ago, Taffin said: Your mortgage provider would certainly be expecting you to pay your installments and it would be up to you to iron out where that came from. Be it insurance or otherwise. I think in this case Cardiff will pay in good faith but will looking to retrieve the money through insurance or through a lawsuit against the agent or otherwise if there were any form of negligence. Neither can happen until an investigation is carried out. It may even go to a court of arbitration. It’s a sensitive case as I’m sure the boys family will want justice too if there were found to be acts of negligence. The thing about football contracts is that there are numerous parties involved and loads of slices of pie and i’m sure this was avoidable had he been booked onto a commercial flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 (edited) I feel awful for both guys. Its an absolutely soul destroying series of events that will have destroyed both families and I sincerely hope that they keep looking for Dave Ibbotson so his family might get the closure they need and deserve too. This nonsense about money shouldn't overshadow there still being a guy missing that deserves to be found. Edited February 8, 2019 by OTT Removed money paragraphs. Didn't sit right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Brown Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Riddley Walker said: Hopefully this will be done quietly. The fact the press found out about Nantes demand suggests otherwise. Or maybe a stupid gobshite within Cardiff's staff. I suspect the former, deliberate leak to paint Nantes as the bad uncaring guys. Or is it Leek? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychedelicropcircle Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 I see the pilots family have started a gofundme page surely it didn’t take the whole 300k to find sala! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William H. Bonney Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, Psychedelicropcircle said: I see the pilots family have started a gofundme page surely it didn’t take the whole 300k to find sala! His agent probably took a cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM1874 Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 (edited) https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47187084 if found to be true (that they were mocking Sala’s death) then it really makes you question folks mentality Edited February 9, 2019 by BM1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William H. Bonney Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 39 minutes ago, Dino Velvet said: As @...a bit disco is known for saying - ‘Modern life is shit’. Or words to that effect. Absolute b@stard Southampton ‘fan’ that thought that was even remotely funny/appropriate. Hope he rots in a plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...a bit disco Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Morgan said: As @...a bit disco is known for saying - ‘Modern life is shit’. Or words to that effect. Absolute b@stard Southampton ‘fan’ that thought that was even remotely funny/appropriate. Hope he rots in a plane. Indeed mate. Came across a Hibby on Twitter who posted an appalling tweet on the same subject. Idiots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull's-eye Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 So that's where Neil Lennon has been hiding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...a bit disco Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, Artful Dodger said: So that's where Neil Lennon has been hiding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, ...a bit disco said: Indeed mate. Came across a Hibby on Twitter who posted an appalling tweet on the same subject. Idiots. Some folk man, some folk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, Artful Dodger said: So that's where Neil Lennon has been hiding. Probably even a wee bitty harsh on Neil tbf. Ok, maybe not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull's-eye Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 12 minutes ago, Morgan said: Probably even a wee bitty harsh on Neil tbf. Ok, maybe not. GUILTYYYYYYYY !!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Artful Dodger said: GUILTYYYYYYYY !!!!! Tremendous, Mr Twist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 I saw Kylian Mbappe has donated a further 30,000 euros towards finding David Ibbotson (on top of the 30k he already put towards Sala. What an absolute class act that laddie is, Gary Lineker too. Sadly, it doesn't look like the remaining money from the initial crowdfund to find Sala is being rolled over into the Ibbotson families search which is quite disappointing. Hopefully that changes since families deserve closure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Funeral is just now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Cardiff now trying to back out of the deal https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/premier-league/exclusive-cardiff-city-plan-to-tell-fifa-deal-struck-to-buy-emiliano-sala-became-null-and-void-after-he-died/ar-BBVawF2?li=BBoPWjP Cardiff City will tell Fifa the deal they struck to buy Emiliano Sala became “null and void” after he died when the club responds to a complaint over their refusal to pay Nantes his £15 million transfer fee. The Daily Telegraph can reveal details of the case Cardiff plan to submit to football’s world governing body to explain their withholding of the first instalment of that fee amid a row over who owned Sala when he was tragically killed in a plane crash two months ago. Their response, which they were given until next Wednesday to provide, will include the refusal of the Premier League to allow the striker to play in the competition over what can now be disclosed was a signing-on fee that was non-compliant with its rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 26 minutes ago, CJGJ said: Cardiff now trying to back out of the deal https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/premier-league/exclusive-cardiff-city-plan-to-tell-fifa-deal-struck-to-buy-emiliano-sala-became-null-and-void-after-he-died/ar-BBVawF2?li=BBoPWjP Cardiff City will tell Fifa the deal they struck to buy Emiliano Sala became “null and void” after he died when the club responds to a complaint over their refusal to pay Nantes his £15 million transfer fee. The Daily Telegraph can reveal details of the case Cardiff plan to submit to football’s world governing body to explain their withholding of the first instalment of that fee amid a row over who owned Sala when he was tragically killed in a plane crash two months ago. Their response, which they were given until next Wednesday to provide, will include the refusal of the Premier League to allow the striker to play in the competition over what can now be disclosed was a signing-on fee that was non-compliant with its rules. This is just embarrassing. Trying to weasel out of a good faith deal on a technicality is ****ing disgusting given the circumstances. Hopefully Fifa see sense and tell them to STFU and pay what their due (and fine them for having the nerve to try and weasel out in the first place). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 How many other transfers are 'null and void' then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, OTT said: This is just embarrassing. Trying to weasel out of a good faith deal on a technicality is ****ing disgusting given the circumstances. Hopefully Fifa see sense and tell them to STFU and pay what their due (and fine them for having the nerve to try and weasel out in the first place). Correct, and anyway, registering him as a player with the relevant FA is what completes a transfer, the league is irrelevant. Edited March 24, 2019 by Smithee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Pretty poor show from Cardiff on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 How many clubs will be willing to do deals with Cardiff now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsalldothebeattie Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Can’t say I’m surprised at this from Cardiff. Been waiting on this coming since it happened. Pretty poor from Cardiff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Scum club with scum fans. Hope Warnock resigns out of protest as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 56 minutes ago, letsalldothebeattie said: Can’t say I’m surprised at this from Cardiff. Been waiting on this coming since it happened. Pretty poor from Cardiff Yeah, it's seemed like it was coming all along, poor stuff. The funny thing is that Cardiff agreed for us to get a sell on percentage for Patterson without being obliged to, I thought they were pretty decent. I suppose 30 million (I think thay eased the overall total including fees etc) makes a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 It's a shit situation but it's naive to think Cardiff are somehow 'different' from any other club in this situation. If any club thought it could somehow get out paying that large a sum it would, especially with it being Cardiffs 'record' fee and then staying in the division is by no means guaranteed. Vlad even tried to weasel out of the Beslija fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedBoy Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Fair play to Cardiff I say. There is obviously a loophole in the system to be exploited. And they have exploited it! There’s not a club in the world that wouldn’t have done the same. Whether you agree with it or not is another matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamtartan74 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 If you had been waiting on a parcel getting delivered but it got lost or damaged in transit would you still pay for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 52 minutes ago, jamtartan74 said: If you had been waiting on a parcel getting delivered but it got lost or damaged in transit would you still pay for it? Hardly a similar comparison is it? Nantes were not responsible for delivering the “package “ and ensuring it arrived in Cardiff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 56 minutes ago, jamtartan74 said: If you had been waiting on a parcel getting delivered but it got lost or damaged in transit would you still pay for it? Probably not. However, if you'd had a parcel delivered, signed for it, and posted a photo of it on Facebook so the world knew you had it before sending it to France, you'd expect to pay. Edited March 25, 2019 by Smithee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Elwood P Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 59 minutes ago, jamtartan74 said: If you had been waiting on a parcel getting delivered but it got lost or damaged in transit would you still pay for it? Its not the player that a club buys it’s the contractual rights of the player. Otherwise it would be a failure of delivery as you suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 hours ago, jamtartan74 said: If you had been waiting on a parcel getting delivered but it got lost or damaged in transit would you still pay for it? Not a good analogy. But if you used your own courier to collect it and ship it then it got lost, then the payment would still be due. You'd then have to take up a case with the courier/make insurance claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamtartan74 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Good points above, but I don’t blame Cardiff for trying to back out of it, it’s obviously a very complex situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Pay up, you **** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 The whole deal, travel arrangements, and agent’s involvement is also murky to me. That aside, if the registration was not legal, or complete, I would expect most clubs would do the same as Cardiff Death can open all sorts of legal disputes, not just in football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, Paolo said: The whole deal, travel arrangements, and agent’s involvement is also murky to me. That aside, if the registration was not legal, or complete, I would expect most clubs would do the same as Cardiff Death can open all sorts of legal disputes, not just in football. The player was registered with the Welsh FA, that's all that's needed for international transfers. The EPL registration was an admin issue for Cardiff to sort out and entirely irrelevant. I agree re McKay though, he's found a way to be an agent without having to stick to the rules - register his son as the agent and he can do whatever he wants in the background. There's always shenanigans when that one's around! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1986 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 As soon as I read Cardiff had missed the first payment I kinda guessed that was the start of what was going to sour this tradgedy even further. They will be forced to pay and I hope FIFA put some lengthy transfer sanctions in place for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He Who Cannot Be Named Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 If McKay hadn't arranged the shoddy flights he'd still be alive, so Nantes must be fairly miffed. Cardiff and i guess mckay should pay up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William H. Bonney Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 There should definitely be something in place where the team that sells the player receives compensation for such an event. Not the full amount but enough to satisfy both parties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 7 hours ago, Dino Velvet said: There should definitely be something in place where the team that sells the player receives compensation for such an event. Not the full amount but enough to satisfy both parties. Surely the arrangement needs to be for the buying club to be compensated, as the selling club receives a transfer fee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William H. Bonney Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 34 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said: Surely the arrangement needs to be for the buying club to be compensated, as the selling club receives a transfer fee? Well yes, but as it appears that Nantes are receiving **** all, I guess they'd need compensated too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 58 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said: Surely the arrangement needs to be for the buying club to be compensated, as the selling club receives a transfer fee? You would hope clubs take out some sorr of Keyman insurance on their major assets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, DH1986 said: As soon as I read Cardiff had missed the first payment I kinda guessed that was the start of what was going to sour this tradgedy even further. They will be forced to pay and I hope FIFA put some lengthy transfer sanctions in place for them. If Cardiff are legally correct, I am.l not sure if sanctions can be imposed on them. I think it could be down to the FA, and any registration that would determine if they are correct or not. Either way, I am amazed there is no insurance in place for this. Players travel by plane all the time, for both fixtures and transfer talks - unless the ‘dodgy’ sounding flight scuppered that. Edited March 26, 2019 by Paolo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 5 minutes ago, davemclaren said: You would hope clubs take out some sorr of Keyman insurance on their major assets. They do. Reading between the lines it looks to me like Cardiff's insurers perhaps aren't prepared to pay out because of unfulfilled clauses in the transfer agreement, leading Cardiff to take this action. I read that they were insured for up to 15 million but that the deal, including agents fees etc, was costing the club closer to 30. There are clearly technical issues with the contract and Cardiff are claiming that the transfer was never fully completed, but I wonder how much damage they've done to their case by announcing to the world that the transfer was complete and that Sala was a Cardiff player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Dino Velvet said: Well yes, but as it appears that Nantes are receiving **** all, I guess they'd need compensated too. If Cardiff are refusing to pay then UEFA step in. 1 hour ago, davemclaren said: You would hope clubs take out some sorr of Keyman insurance on their major assets. What is 'Keyman insurance' ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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