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To Be Frank

Charity bet - Levein vs Clarke - *bet is ON*

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To Be Frank

There seem to be a number of posters who think we’re going nowhere under Craig Levein while Kilmarnock are destined for greatness under Steve Clarke.

 

Therefore I’m offering up a £100 charity bet to the first person who wants accept it.

 

If Kilmarnock finish above Hearts this season I will donate £100 to Big Hearts.

 

If Hearts finish above Kilmarnock this season whoever takes up the bet will donate £100 to Big Hearts.

 

*Given that this is dependant on Clarke staying at Killie, the bet is only valid if Steve Clarke is still Killie manager on the 1st of March. 

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graygo

Now there's a no win bet for you.

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Sir Gio

What's the point?

 

I'll bet Clarke has the most points in a calendar year bar the champions all without a pot to piss in vastly improving his players. 

 

Craig is doing a great job without luck but it would be a naive fool that denied Clarke has been an amazing success. 

 

 

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lsimp77

Just donate the £100 now.

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VladMagic
2 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

What's the point?

 

I'll bet Clarke has the most points in a calendar year bar the champions all without a pot to piss in vastly improving his players. 

 

Craig is doing a great job without luck but it would be a naive fool that denied Clarke has been an amazing success. 

 

 

 

Deflecting away from the OP.

 

Are you going to stick your money where your mouth is and take Frank up on the bet he has posted?

 

I think not.

 

Pussy.

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VladMagic

I would suggest people think before they post or they will be called out for being slit arsed piss squatters.

 

The bet is there for all to see.

 

Either take it up or STFU.

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Geoff Kilpatrick
1 minute ago, VladMagic said:

 

Deflecting away from the OP.

 

Are you going to stick your money where your mouth is and take Frank up on the bet he has posted?

 

I think not.

 

Pussy.

:cornette:

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Sir Gio
3 minutes ago, VladMagic said:

 

Deflecting away from the OP.

 

Are you going to stick your money where your mouth is and take Frank up on the bet he has posted?

 

I think not.

 

Pussy.

:rofl:

 

what a load of shite. The bet proves nothing. 

 

Kilmarnock could lose 4 star players or we could lose 4 more.

 

It's not a Levein v Clarke bet

 

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VladMagic
3 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

:rofl:

 

what a load of shite. The bet proves nothing. 

 

Kilmarnock could lose 4 star players or we could lose 4 more.

 

It's not a Levein v Clarke bet

 

 

Well apart from asking how long they are in the shower, what else would you bet on seeing as they are the managers of the teams in question?

 

Seriously Sir Gio? Have a word?

 

The bet is there. Take it up or shhhhhhhhhhhh ;)

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Sooperstar

Sounds like VladMagic is willing to double up on the Levein side.

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smiler
7 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

 

It's not a Levein v Clarke bet

 

It is really.

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smiler

Seven or so posters aside from the OP and no one’s taken up the bet.

Tight arsed *****.

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Geoff Kilpatrick
4 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

Sounds like VladMagic is willing to double up on the Levein side.

Indeed. It's a weird challenge though. I believe we will finish above Killie but I would rate Clarke as a better manager than Levein in any case. However, it's clear this thread is a response to the bizarre claim that because Clarke is a better manager then Levein should be sacked. As I pointed out on that thread, why would Steve Clarke become Hearts manager given he had already turned down Sevco? No response.

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Sooperstar

Smiler makes it 300 quid on the Levein side.

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Sir Gio
13 minutes ago, smiler said:

It is really.

So if we changed Clarke for Brendan Rodgers?

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smiler
7 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

Smiler makes it 300 quid on the Levein side.

Money’s no object to me, chief.

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smiler
2 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

So if we changed Clarke for Brendan Rodgers?

It would be a Levein v Rodgers bet then I suppose.

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To Be Frank
36 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

What's the point?

 

I'll bet Clarke has the most points in a calendar year bar the champions all without a pot to piss in vastly improving his players. 

 

Craig is doing a great job without luck but it would be a naive fool that denied Clarke has been an amazing success. 

 

 

 

A. Totally agree Clarke has been an amazing success.

 

B. Also totally agree Craig is doing a great job.

 

This bet is aimed at those who believe A is true and B is false.

(or more specifically who believe A and also believe we’re going nowhere under Craig)

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Sir Gio
15 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

A. Totally agree Clarke has been an amazing success.

 

B. Also totally agree Craig is doing a great job.

 

This bet is aimed at those who believe A is true and B is false.

(or more specifically who believe A and also believe we’re going nowhere under Craig)

Been a bunfight I missed then :)

 

Hearts v Kilmarnock for me still but got the gist thanks 

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Jamhammer

Tumbleweed central 

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Debut 4

Hearts have greater resources. 

 

I’d expect a decent manager like Levein (even if you think he’s not as good as Clarke) to have enough experience and managerial quality (allied with the greater resources) to make the difference. 

 

Think these things need considered. 

 

 

Edited by Debut 4

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To Be Frank
Just now, Debut 4 said:

Hearts have greater resources. 

 

I’d expect a decent manager like Levein (even if you think he’s not as good as Clarke) to have enough experience and managerial quality , and allied with the greater resources, to make the difference. 

 

Think these things need considered. 

 

 

 

Not according to some who believe we’re destined to nothing but mediocrity under Levein.

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magicTs
7 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Hearts have greater resources. 

 

I’d expect a decent manager like Levein (even if you think he’s not as good as Clarke) to have enough experience and managerial quality (allied with the greater resources) to make the difference. 

 

Think these things need considered. 

 

 

 

 

That’s exactly correct. Levein and Hearts damn well should finish above Kilmarnock virtually every season. That may happen this year too. Certainly if we don’t major questions should be getting asked. 

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shaun.lawson
20 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Hearts have greater resources. 

 

I’d expect a decent manager like Levein (even if you think he’s not as good as Clarke) to have enough experience and managerial quality (allied with the greater resources) to make the difference. 

 

Think these things need considered. 

 

 

 

Jefferies' Hearts finished well below Kilmarnock in 1998/9.

 

Did you want him out?

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magicTs
5 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Jefferies' Hearts finished well below Kilmarnock in 1998/9.

 

Did you want him out?

 

 

Jefferies Hearts had just ended decades of failure with the clubs greatest win in 40+ years. Can you honestly see a Levein team ever win such a monumental match? I’ll wait 😂

Edited by magicTs

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Debut 4
3 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Jefferies' Hearts finished well below Kilmarnock in 1998/9.

 

Did you want him out?

No, why do you ask?

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shaun.lawson
1 minute ago, Debut 4 said:

No, why do you ask?

 

Hearts had much greater resources than Killie. JJ, despite his achievements to that point, finished well below Killie.

 

My answer to the "should we finish above Killie?" question is: most of the time of course, but not all of the time. The financial gaps between all the non-OF clubs are infinitely smaller than those between the non-OF clubs and the OF. And every now and then, someone emerges for half a season or so who really surprise.

 

Anyone treating Levein not being above Clarke (or finishing above Clarke come May) as a Mark of Cain might as well argue that every single Big Six manager in England should've been fired in 2015/16 for finishing below Leicester. But it doesn't work like that; nor should it.

 

A realistic goal for Hearts is to do the best outside the OF over a 5 or 10-year period. A wildly unrealistic and wholly unattainable goal for Hearts is to do the best outside the OF every single season. Even managing it every other year would be remarkable.

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shaun.lawson
7 minutes ago, magicTs said:

 

 

Jefferies Hearts has just ended decades of failure with the clubs greatest win in 40+ years. Can you honestly see a Levein team ever win such a monumental match? I’ll wait 😂

 

Probably not. However, the mighty JJ also required luck and a declining Rangers side*. I'm not taking a single thing away from what he achieved - but that luck has been denied Levein over the years, to a quite extraordinary extent.

 

*Before anyone interjects in fury, Rangers 95/6 were miles ahead of Rangers 97/8. Rangers 92/3 were light years ahead of Rangers 97/8. It was still a fantastic achievement to beat them when it most mattered - but they were vulnerable. Celtic under Rodgers sadly are not.

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Mikey1874

Good stuff

 

£100 to Big Hearts

 

Who is taking this on?

17 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Jefferies' Hearts finished well below Kilmarnock in 1998/9.

 

Did you want him out?

 

Jefferies was most shit, mediocre manager at best. Same standard as say Joe Jordan. 

 

But winning is everything. Hero for building that team. 

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Kiwidoug

No one taking him up on the bet, including me.  In my case it's because I can't understand the last 2 paragraphs.

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shaun.lawson
Just now, Mikey1874 said:

Jefferies was most shit, mediocre manager at best. Same standard as say Joe Jordan. 

 

:cornette:

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magicTs
13 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Probably not. However, the mighty JJ also required luck and a declining Rangers side*. I'm not taking a single thing away from what he achieved - but that luck has been denied Levein over the years, to a quite extraordinary extent.

 

*Before anyone interjects in fury, Rangers 95/6 were miles ahead of Rangers 97/8. Rangers 92/3 were light years ahead of Rangers 97/8. It was still a fantastic achievement to beat them when it most mattered - but they were vulnerable. Celtic under Rodgers sadly are not.

 

You know what Shaun you just hit the nail on the head regards Levein! I can’t be bothered trawling back over posts but a couple of months ago I made the exact point and it’s one I actually feel sorry for Craig Levein over. The guy has no luck whatsoever, never did as a player and never will as a manager. That on top of other shortcomings and flaws is not a successful combination and is why he’s fallen short continually. 

 

* that Rangers side whilst past their best (and crucially missing Albertz) would wipe the floor with our current side and easily win this seasons SPL. Furthermore whilst they’ve clearly regained their footing Celtic were vulnerable for the cup semi-final and as usual, when it matters Levein shit the bed, reverted to type and tried to play a containing game which had zero chance of success. 

Edited by magicTs

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Mikey1874
Just now, shaun.lawson said:

 

:cornette:

 

Like Jordan nearly got us relegated 

 

Failed terribly to build on Cup winning team despite a shed load of money.

 

Would have been slaughtered on here.

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shaun.lawson
7 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Like Jordan nearly got us relegated 

 

Failed terribly to build on Cup winning team despite a shed load of money.

 

Would have been slaughtered on here.

 

A shedload of money by Hearts' standards. Nothing compared with what either Celtic or Rangers were spending. The latter spent so much, it literally killed them.

 

And as I've posted many times before, JJ was lied to repeatedly by Robinson throughout that period. Hating Pieman while simultaneously blaming JJ too has always struck me as a bizarre position for some to adopt.

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To Be Frank
11 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

No one taking him up on the bet, including me.  In my case it's because I can't understand the last 2 paragraphs.

 

What don’t you understand? 🤔

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VladMagic

Interesting the most vocal of "Clarke is a better manager than Levein" posters remain conspicuous by their absence.

 

Not a pair of balls amongst them.

 

 

 

 

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NB GIN
2 hours ago, To Be Frank said:

There seem to be a number of posters who think we’re going nowhere under Craig Levein while Kilmarnock are destined for greatness under Steve Clarke.

 

Therefore I’m offering up a £100 charity bet to the first person who wants accept it.

 

If Kilmarnock finish above Hearts this season I will donate £100 to Big Hearts.

 

If Hearts finish above Kilmarnock this season whoever takes up the bet will donate £100 to Big Hearts.

 

*Given that this is dependant on Clarke staying at Killie, the bet is only valid if Steve Clarke is still Killie manager on the 1st of March. 

Considering the squad Clarke has I would say he appears miles ahead of CL

 

kilmarnock are only 3 points behind Celtic for the last 38 games that is phenomenal for the money differences 

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shaun.lawson
9 minutes ago, magicTs said:

 

You know what Shaun you just hit the nail on the head regards Levein! I can’t be bothered trawling back over posts but a couple of months ago I made the exact point and it’s one I actually feel sorry for Craig Levein over. The guy has no luck whatsoever, never did as a player and never will as a manager. That on top of other shortcomings and flaws is not a successful combination and is why he’s fallen short continually. 

 

* that Rangers side whilst past their best (and crucially missing Albertz) would wipe the floor with our current side and easily win this seasons SPL. Furthermore whilst they’ve clearly regained their footing Celtic were vulnerable for the cup semi-final and as usual, when it matters Levein shit the bed, reverted to type and tried to play a containing game which had zero chance of success. 

 

With regard to your first paragraph, I feel sorry for him too, and said as much in a now notorious OP back in May. This OP was, to put it mildly, somewhat misunderstood by many.

 

With regard to your second:

 

1. Yes, of course that Rangers team would skoosh this league now. So would that Hearts team. Comparing Scottish football then and now is to compare two different sports, two different planets almost. 

 

2. No, Levein didn't 'shit the bed' for the semi-final. We had key players out, disastrously lost Naismith early on (shades of Gary Locke in the '96 final), and were outplayed by a much better side: which has now won 7 domestic trophies on the bounce.

 

That semi-final was a reality check. A grim one. It knocked the stuffing out of us and we really haven't recovered since. But when Celtic are 'on', 3-0 defeats against them are frankly, about par for the course. Losing a Cup tie to any OF side is not something which should be held against any Hearts manager at any time.

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VladMagic

What this thread has proven (and I admit there is still time for some to perhaps read it) is that there are some complete pussies on this forum. 

 

Billy big baws giving it this and that but when it comes to the crux, they all have wings but no ding a ling.

 

Those I refer to will be quietly pointed in the direction of this thread with To Be Franks blessing until such time that To Be Frank closes the thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Nookie Bear
17 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

With regard to your first paragraph, I feel sorry for him too, and said as much in a now notorious OP back in May. This OP was, to put it mildly, somewhat misunderstood by many.

 

 

:cornette:

 

 

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Nookie Bear
1 minute ago, VladMagic said:

What this thread has proven (and I admit there is still time for some to perhaps read it) is that there are some complete pussies on this forum. 

 

Billy big baws giving it this and that but when it comes to the crux, they all have wings but no ding a ling.

 

Those I refer to will be quietly pointed in the direction of this thread with To Be Franks blessing until such time that To Be Frank closes the thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Calls out everyone as pussies...

 

Acting like the OP’s weedy bitch...

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To Be Frank
18 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

With regard to your first paragraph, I feel sorry for him too, and said as much in a now notorious OP back in May. This OP was, to put it mildly, somewhat misunderstood by many.

 

With regard to your second:

 

1. Yes, of course that Rangers team would skoosh this league now. So would that Hearts team. Comparing Scottish football then and now is to compare two different sports, two different planets almost. 

 

2. No, Levein didn't 'shit the bed' for the semi-final. We had key players out, disastrously lost Naismith early on (shades of Gary Locke in the '96 final), and were outplayed by a much better side: which has now won 7 domestic trophies on the bounce.

 

That semi-final was a reality check. A grim one. It knocked the stuffing out of us and we really haven't recovered since. But when Celtic are 'on', 3-0 defeats against them are frankly, about par for the course. Losing a Cup tie to any OF side is not something which should be held against any Hearts manager at any time.

 

Can you go into more detail on how what you wrote was misunderstood by many people? You began in your OP describing Levein as some luckless tortured soul who it was written in the fates would never win a trophy. In the same thread you then went on to describe him using words such as:

craven

shitebag

absolute catastrophe

broken

a decade past it

overwhelmed by terror

 

Can you explain where you’ve been misunderstood please?

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To Be Frank
6 minutes ago, VladMagic said:

What this thread has proven (and I admit there is still time for some to perhaps read it) is that there are some complete pussies on this forum. 

 

Billy big baws giving it this and that but when it comes to the crux, they all have wings but no ding a ling.

 

Those I refer to will be quietly pointed in the direction of this thread with To Be Franks blessing until such time that To Be Frank closes the thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fill your boots 👍🏻

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shaun.lawson
6 minutes ago, VladMagic said:

What this thread has proven (and I admit there is still time for some to perhaps read it) is that there are some complete pussies on this forum. 

 

Billy big baws giving it this and that but when it comes to the crux, they all have wings but no ding a ling.

 

Those I refer to will be quietly pointed in the direction of this thread with To Be Franks blessing until such time that To Be Frank closes the thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 

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VladMagic
1 minute ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Calls out everyone as pussies...

 

Acting like the OP’s weedy bitch...

 

"some" Nookie Bear. "some".

 

 

 

 

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magicTs
23 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

With regard to your first paragraph, I feel sorry for him too, and said as much in a now notorious OP back in May. This OP was, to put it mildly, somewhat misunderstood by many.

 

With regard to your second:

 

1. Yes, of course that Rangers team would skoosh this league now. So would that Hearts team. Comparing Scottish football then and now is to compare two different sports, two different planets almost. 

 

2. No, Levein didn't 'shit the bed' for the semi-final. We had key players out, disastrously lost Naismith early on (shades of Gary Locke in the '96 final), and were outplayed by a much better side: which has now won 7 domestic trophies on the bounce.

 

That semi-final was a reality check. A grim one. It knocked the stuffing out of us and we really haven't recovered since. But when Celtic are 'on', 3-0 defeats against them are frankly, about par for the course. Losing a Cup tie to any OF side is not something which should be held against any Hearts manager at any time.

 

The fact he brought on ****ing Amankwaa for Naismith means he deserves plenty of stick! But regardless of that, in my view you are wrong about the semi-final. Not necessarily the fact we lost as I had no notion we would do anything but. However there is a manner to lose such a game, a hugely publicised game in which nigh on 30,000 Hearts fans turned up! It is everything that is wrong with Levein’s attitude and a fair % of our support that he gave us not an earthly opportunity to win that match. Look back over the last x number of seasons and Celtic routinely some tougher cup matches against teams far smaller than Hearts. The fact is and you can dress it up however you want (credit where it’s due at least you will justify your argument) Levein will always fall short. If only it were cup tie defeats to the Old Firm he has on his Hearts record  but we both know it’s not. 

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Debut 4
49 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Good stuff

 

£100 to Big Hearts

 

Who is taking this on?

 

Jefferies was most shit, mediocre manager at best. Same standard as say Joe Jordan. 

 

But winning is everything. Hero for building that team. 

That's an absolute belter.. Ffs

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shaun.lawson
16 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Can you go into more detail on how what you wrote was misunderstood by many people? You began in your OP describing Levein as some luckless tortured soul who it was written in the fates would never win a trophy. In the same thread you then went on to describe him using words such as:

craven

shitebag

absolute catastrophe

broken

a decade past it

overwhelmed by terror

 

Can you explain where you’ve been misunderstood please?

 

My thesis was simple. He's been so incredibly unlucky so often - as a player and as a manager - that it'd be impossible for that not to have affected him; and especially, not to have made him more cautious when the chips were down. This was then treated by the likes of you as a character assassination, and continually misrepresented: as you have done yet again above. 

 

The OP I wrote contained NONE of the following terms: 'shitebag', 'absolute catastrophe', 'craven', 'a decade past it', or 'overwhelmed by terror'. It did say that too often, his approach is one of fear: which I absolutely stand by. And that Hearts had played as if paralysed by fear at Rangers, which we did. For the most part, it empathised with him: the amount of disappointment and heartbreak he's been through has, in sporting terms, been extraordinary.

 

It strikes me as quite monumentally dumb to think that that accumulation of heartbreak has had no effect on him whatsoever. Of course it has. You reckon losing 5-0 to Barcelona didn't affect Mourinho? It changed him completely.

 

But then, engaging with others just isn't your thing, Frank. What you always do instead is:

 

1. Completely misrepresent and lie about what was said

 

2. Repeat the lie again, and again, and again, and again, to the point whereby others assume it must've been said. Donald Trump would be proud of you.

 

3. Gang up with your wee internet pals - the same old usual suspects, everyone knows who they are - and not disagree with someone you have a different opinion from, but attack them personally and accuse them of all sorts of nonsense. All so you can look big on the internet.

 

By the way: no doubt I didn't express myself as well as I could've or should've. However, the last I checked, that isn't a crime. From your side though, it's quite pathetic behaviour. You and your pals been doing it again today with another poster on another thread. It clearly makes you feel good. It adds nothing but nastiness to this forum. 

Edited by shaun.lawson

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Debut 4
59 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Hearts had much greater resources than Killie. JJ, despite his achievements to that point, finished well below Killie.

 

My answer to the "should we finish above Killie?" question is: most of the time of course, but not all of the time. The financial gaps between all the non-OF clubs are infinitely smaller than those between the non-OF clubs and the OF. And every now and then, someone emerges for half a season or so who really surprise.

 

Anyone treating Levein not being above Clarke (or finishing above Clarke come May) as a Mark of Cain might as well argue that every single Big Six manager in England should've been fired in 2015/16 for finishing below Leicester. But it doesn't work like that; nor should it.

 

A realistic goal for Hearts is to do the best outside the OF over a 5 or 10-year period. A wildly unrealistic and wholly unattainable goal for Hearts is to do the best outside the OF every single season. Even managing it every other year would be remarkable.

JJ could be afforded a let off season in 98-99.   We mustn't forget we started that season how we finished the previous one before that dreadful run.

 

I really shouldn't have to go into the history of his time. Everyone should know the story. He always improved Hearts in both spells and his team's were good to watch. 

 

As for expectation. I think Hearts aim should be to gain far better consistency in league performance and regular trophy winning....isn't this new era of being debt free, having a lot of money and being stable about realising the much spoken potential of Hearts?  Or are we just accepting what we've always been?

 

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To Be Frank
2 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

My thesis was simple. He's been so incredibly unlucky so often - as a player and as a manager - that it'd be impossible for that not to have affected him; and especially, not to have made him more cautious when the chips were down. This was then treated by the likes of you as a character assassination, and continually misrepresented: as you have done yet again above. 

 

The OP I wrote contained NONE of the following terms: 'shitebag', 'absolute catastrophe', 'craven', 'a decade past it', or 'overwhelmed by terror'. It did say that too often, his approach is one of fear: which I absolutely stand by. And that Hearts had played as if paralysed by fear at Rangers, which we did. For the most part, it empathised with him: the amount of disappointment and heartbreak he's been through has, in sporting terms, been extraordinary.

 

It strikes me as quite monumentally dumb to think that that accumulation of heartbreak has had no effect on him whatsoever. Of course it has. You reckon losing 5-0 to Barcelona didn't affect Mourinho? It changed him completely.

 

But then, engaging with others just isn't your thing, Frank. What you always do instead is:

 

1. Completely misrepresent and lie about what was said

 

2. Repeat the lie again, and again, and again, and again, to the point whereby others assume it must've been said. Donald Trump would be proud of you.

 

3. Gang up with your wee internet pals - the same old usual suspects, everyone knows who they are - and not disagree with someone you have a different opinion from, but attack them personally and accuse them of all sorts of nonsense. All so you can look big on the internet.

 

It's quite pathetic behaviour. You and your pals been doing it again today with another poster on another thread. It clearly makes you feel good. It adds nothing but nastiness to this forum. 

 

Simple yes or no question...did you refer to Craig Levein as:

 

craven

shitebag

absolute catastrophe

broken

a decade past it

overwhelmed by terror

 

on that very same thread you’re referring to?

 

 

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