Time to wake up

[Felix Lighter]

Getting sick of reading "conspiracy theory" shite on here.

Our refs are cheats.

[waterboy11]

What Levein said to the press would have been to try and defend the players, have much of the blame placed at him, which seems to be what is happening.

 

i can guarantee after the match in the dressing room, his attitude would have been totally different, and the players will have been made aware that they are not performing. 

 

How many any teams have you seen perform consistently for a whole season, when they lose 4 key players, a 5th is playing while requiring an operation and then one of them replacements for the 4 key players gets injured as well. 

[Beast Boy]

3 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

 

Here we go, the tag team.

 

I don’t know El Diez, and disagree with many of his comments regularly. We also don’t post at the same time very often and don’t have a history of backing each other up on things... are you mixing me up with someone else?

[Fozzyonthefence]

Just now, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

I don’t know El Diez, and disagree with many of his comments regularly. We also don’t post at the same time very often and don’t have a history of backing each other up on things... are you mixing me up with someone else?

 

Possibly, there’s plenty of it goes on here.

[Bauld]

It was a hard fought game between 2 of the best teams in the league. 

 

One perhaps suffering a bit from European games midweek and the other suffering from injuries to key players.

 

As a result neither hit their stride while also cancelling each other out in places.

 

The game was tight enough that the result fell the way of the team who got the dodgy decision.

 

Take something from this game though. 

 

Berra came back and was immense. He isn't even close to his best yet.

 

Naismith will be back in a number of weeks. 

 

Vanecek is due in less than a month. 

 

We were still only a win away from top spot before today. 

 

I'm not saying we are going to win the league but the points gap won't be that big by the time we have our goalscorers on the pitch and restoring balance to the team. I still expect us to finish high.

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, Bauld said:

It was a hard fought game between 2 of the best teams in the league. 

 

One perhaps suffering a bit from European games midweek and the other suffering from injuries to key players.

 

As a result neither hit their stride while also cancelling each other out in places.

 

The game was tight enough that the result fell the way of the team who got the dodgy decision.

 

Take something from this game though. 

 

Berra came back and was immense. He isn't even close to his best yet.

 

Naismith will be back in a number of weeks. 

 

Vanecek is due in less than a month. 

 

We were still only a win away from top spot before today. 

 

I'm not saying we are going to win the league but the points gap won't be that big by the time we have our goalscorers on the pitch and restoring balance to the team. I still expect us to finish high.

 

A more balanced summary.  Points gap between us and who though/ Rangers and Celtic or the others?  If you mean the former, I disagree, it will go up most weeks between now and the break - can’t see us winning more than 2 games.

[Beast Boy]

3 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

 

Possibly, there’s plenty of it goes on here.

 

Is it possible that you just think this when more than poster disagrees with your posts? ED and I don’t have any kind of connection or history together on here.

[daveyhmfc]

The levein defenders out in force again I see.

[Beast Boy]

12 minutes ago, Felix Lighter said:

Getting sick of reading "conspiracy theory" shite on here.

Our refs are cheats.

 

Yep. You would think that given the history of disparity in officiating that has blighted the game in the thirty odd years I’ve been watching it, people would actually realise this. It’s totally mental that you could witness that performance today and think back to Davis, MacDonald, Collum and Brines and still not get your head around the fact that some referees and linesmen have agendas.

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, daveyhmfc said:

The levein defenders out in force again I see.

 

The Levein haters out in force again I see.

[El Diez]

18 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

 

Our performance was pish and deserved absolutely **** all!  Take the blinkers off man and no need for the personal abuse to the folk that actually understand football. 

Your posting history isn’t that of someone understanding football, tbh.

 

Do we need to go through it, topic by topic?

[El Diez]

17 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

 

Possibly, there’s plenty of it goes on here.

 

Because opinions are varied and diverse in the office block right enough.

 

 

 

[i8hibsh]

37 minutes ago, Morgan said:

Without their main two strikers?

 

 

Yeah. Most teams don't rely on one person to score most of their goals. We did last year under Levein and are this year.

[NB GIN]

1 hour ago, oh ah grantona said:

Far too much blaming officals yes the goal was offside but after we scored we were 2nd best by a mile aswell 

 

This again was a poor rangers side we have all seen better at tynie and we have won. 

 

Team selection today imo was wrong but we started brilliant went 1 up then we died WHY!!

 

ITS the manager job to pick the team set it up and manage during a game and for me he is failing big time

 

 

It's time for levein to go we will never progress despite having a very decent side 

 

Many will disagree but it's my opinion on how the club goes to next stage 

I don’t think it’s time for him to go but one thing for sure Tommy Wright and Steve Clark are better managers on a shoestring budget compared to ours 

 

 

[JamboGraham]

In the context of the OP what does “time to wake up” mean?

[Fozzyonthefence]

11 minutes ago, El Diez said:

Your posting history isn’t that of someone understanding football, tbh.

 

Do we need to go through it, topic by topic?

 

Calling out posters as bell chiefs because they don’t agree with your viewpoint doesn’t do you any favours.  Carry on the stalking though. 

 

And if you thought that performance today was acceptable and worthy of a point, there’s no point debating with you. We were second best by a distance for the last hour, even playing 25 minutes against 10 men they looked more likely to score.  Just you gloss over that if it makes you feel better then.

[Ministry MK2]

1 hour ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

Just skim over the offside goal and terrible officiating then, aye? Jesus Christ. We deserved a draw, and the only reason we never got it was Madden’s cheating.

I am not against Levein. And though we did ok today. But to say we deserved a draw today is fairly laughable. Rangers were better than us. Even when they went down to 10 men we created nothing. We got what we deserved today. 

[Cruyff Turn]

59 minutes ago, EastSideJambo said:

This playing squad is being subsidised to the tune of £1M pa beyond our income stream. That makes accumulating 20+ less than Kilmarnock in the last 14 months all the more staggering  

 

Would you be of the view that if we finish in say 6th this season that change would be necessary?

What Steve Clarke has done at Killie is staggering. Over the same period, he has probably accumulated more points than Rangers, Aberdeen, Hibs, as well as ourselves so I’m not sure that’s a fair point.

 

With a full squad of players fit, we’d have picked up 10-15 points v Livi, Hibs, Killie St.Mirren and Rangers today. The loss of Naisy, Berra, Uche and Souttar have cost us big time, there is no question about that.

 

Leveins not completely blameless, some of the selections have been a bit WTF, especially v Celtic in both games. We missed a pen v Livi ? And they defended excellently. We were the better side v Hibs by miles. We got hit by a sucker punch against a quality Killie side despite being the better team. We were shite v St Mirren. We were shite today but we get a point if the Linesmen is doing his job.

 

We’ve had horrendous luck but we’ve lost key players, quality players and leaders on the park. Confidence is probably now shot to pieces and we play an inform side on Wednesday. It’s bad luck more than bad management without a shadow of a doubt. 

 

If we don’t finish top 4 then yes, we need to change it. We’ll come back and finish the 2nd half of the season strongly though.

Edited December 2, 2018 by Cruyff Turn

[EastSideJambo]

53 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

 

Madden didn’t say that at all and Levein didn’t say he said that either.  You made that up.

 

If Madden was so bent he didn’t have to send off Arfield to give us a great chance with 25 minutes at 10 men, he would just have given a yellow.  That still wouldn’t have been as bad a decision as the linesman missing the offside.

 

The fact is, if the 2nd goal was disallowed, neither you nor I know what the score would have been.

 

It’s right to highlight the awful officiating today but it’s wrong to use it to cover up how shite we were today and the huge problems we  have.

Spot on. We don't know what would've happened if Morelos goal had been rightly chalked off 

 

In all likelihood we'd have still lost. Created absolutely nothing in the second half 

[1971fozzy]

Another thread that could of been added to other threads.

and another lot of pish

[EastSideJambo]

5 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

What Steve Clarke has done at Killie is staggering. Over the same period, he has probably accumulated more points than Rangers, Aberdeen, Hibs, as well as ourselves so I’m not sure that’s a fair point.

 

With a full squad of players fit, we’d have picked up 10-15 points v Livi, Hibs, Killie St.Mirren and Rangers today. The loss of Naisy, Berra, Uche and Souttar have cost us big time, there is no question about that.

 

Leveins not completely blameless, some of the selections have been a bit WTF, especially v Celtic in both games. We missed a pen v Livi ? And they defended excellently. We were the better side v Hibs by miles. We got hit by a sucker punch against a quality Killie side despite being the better team. We were shite v St Mirren. We were shite today but we get a point if the Linesmen is doing his job.

 

We’ve had horrendous luck but we’ve lost key players, quality players and leaders on the park. Confidence is probably now shot to pieces and we play an inform side on Wednesday. It’s bad luck more than bad management without a shadow of a doubt. 

If we finish 5th or 6th would you let Levein continue? 

 

Souttar and Berra have been a huge loss. Buy they wouldn't have materially impacted on our limitations from midfield forward. We have no pace, no width and little creativity. There is a heavy emphasis on Naismith and there is a possibility that Uche has become more indispensable the longer he's out in people's minds 

Edited December 2, 2018 by EastSideJambo

[1971fozzy]

2 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

What Steve Clarke has done at Killie is staggering. Over the same period, he has probably accumulated more points than Rangers, Aberdeen, Hibs, as well as ourselves so I’m not sure that’s a fair point.

 

With a full squad of players fit, we’d have picked up 10-15 points v Livi, Hibs, Killie St.Mirren and Rangers today. The loss of Naisy, Berra, Uche and Souttar have cost us big time, there is no question about that.

 

Leveins not completely blameless, some of the selections have been a bit WTF, especially v Celtic in both games. We missed a pen v Livi ? And they defended excellently. We were the better side v Hibs by miles. We got hit by a sucker punch against a quality Killie side despite being the better team. We were shite v St Mirren. We were shite today but we get a point if the Linesmen is doing his job.

 

We’ve had horrendous luck but we’ve lost key players, quality players and leaders on the park. Confidence is probably now shot to pieces and we play an inform side on Wednesday. It’s bad luck more than bad management without a shadow of a doubt. 

 

Far to sensible a post for some

[By the light]

1 minute ago, NB GIN said:

I don’t think it’s time for him to go but one thing for sure Tommy Wright and Steve Clark are better managers on a shoestring budget compared to ours 

 

 

 

Killie’s recent performance at Tynecastle

is a typical Levein away set up that he gets slaughtered for.

 

Tommy Wright also knows how to set up a team to defend, grind out results and steal points.

 

They’d not do any better than Levein. I’d argue Levein would have Killie and St Johnstone as competitive as they are now.

[By the light]

5 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

What Steve Clarke has done at Killie is staggering. Over the same period, he has probably accumulated more points than Rangers, Aberdeen, Hibs, as well as ourselves so I’m not sure that’s a fair point.

 

With a full squad of players fit, we’d have picked up 10-15 points v Livi, Hibs, Killie St.Mirren and Rangers today. The loss of Naisy, Berra, Uche and Souttar have cost us big time, there is no question about that.

 

Leveins not completely blameless, some of the selections have been a bit WTF, especially v Celtic in both games. We missed a pen v Livi ? And they defended excellently. We were the better side v Hibs by miles. We got hit by a sucker punch against a quality Killie side despite being the better team. We were shite v St Mirren. We were shite today but we get a point if the Linesmen is doing his job.

 

We’ve had horrendous luck but we’ve lost key players, quality players and leaders on the park. Confidence is probably now shot to pieces and we play an inform side on Wednesday. It’s bad luck more than bad management without a shadow of a doubt. 

 

If we don’t finish top 4 then yes, we need to change it. We’ll come back and finish the 2nd half of the season strongly though.

 

Agree with all of this 

[1971fozzy]

Hibs lost their best 3 players in the summer. They are 8th now

 

we lost 4-5 of our best players. We are now 4th.

 

do you see a pattern emerging ?  Ok, let me spell it out for you and others. Teams like Hearts and Hibs can not afford to lose their best players , especially 3-5 of them. It means we will not be able to get the results we would get if we had said players available.

not something that requires Stephen Hawkins type intelligence to figure out ffs

[EastSideJambo]

4 minutes ago, By the light said:

 

Killie’s recent performance at Tynecastle

is a typical Levein away set up that he gets slaughtered for.

 

Tommy Wright also knows how to set up a team to defend, grind out results and steal points.

 

They’d not do any better than Levein. I’d argue Levein would have Killie and St Johnstone as competitive as they are now.

Levein would have achieved what Clarke has at Killie???

 

This is now comedy gold 

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, oh ah grantona said:

Far too much blaming officals yes the goal was offside but after we scored we were 2nd best by a mile aswell 

 

This again was a poor rangers side we have all seen better at tynie and we have won. 

 

Team selection today imo was wrong but we started brilliant went 1 up then we died WHY!!

 

ITS the manager job to pick the team set it up and manage during a game and for me he is failing big time

 

 

It's time for levein to go we will never progress despite having a very decent side 

 

Many will disagree but it's my opinion on how the club goes to next stage 

 

Ah! It's been a few months. Welcome back. 

[Mikey1874]

Woke up a whole time back at the fantasists on here.

 

And that's not the word(s) I have for you.

 

Hold you lot in utter contempt. 

[ToadKiller Dog]

Big difference in pressure on a hearts manager than a Killie or St Johnstone manager. 

Our expectations demands are a bit higher. 

When Wright side was struggling last season he didn't face any boos in Perth no hearts manager would have got that easy a ride . 

Let's see how Wright manages if he moves into a higher pressure job, same for Clarke but I think he is more capable. 

[JamboGraham]

4 minutes ago, EastSideJambo said:

If we finish 5th or 6th would you let Levein continue? 

 

I know you didn’t ask me but surely this can only be answered in May? Unless you think 5th or 6th is inevitable with Levein in charge.

[EastSideJambo]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

Woke up a whole time back at the fantasists on here.

 

And that's not the word(s) I have for you.

 

Hold you lot in utter contempt. 

Good post 

[graygo]

5 minutes ago, EastSideJambo said:

Levein would have achieved what Clarke has at Killie???

 

This is now comedy gold 

 

Kilmarnock will never win anything with Steve Clarke as manager.

 

This is easy.

[Fozzyonthefence]

11 minutes ago, By the light said:

 

Killie’s recent performance at Tynecastle

is a typical Levein away set up that he gets slaughtered for.

 

Tommy Wright also knows how to set up a team to defend, grind out results and steal points.

 

They’d not do any better than Levein. I’d argue Levein would have Killie and St Johnstone as competitive as they are now.

 

Clark is already doing better than Levein, last season and this, with a fraction of his budget and Wright’s team will probably go above us on Wednesday night.

 

I don’t want Levein out by the way, judge him over the full season, once we have our best players back, but if we don’t finish top 4 for me it’s time for someone else. Finishing behind Killie 2 seasons running would be unacceptable.

Edited December 2, 2018 by Fozzyonthefence

[EastSideJambo]

Just now, JamboGraham said:

 

I know you didn’t ask me but surely this can only be answered in May? Unless you think 5th or 6th is inevitable with Levein in charge.

Latter I'm afraid 

[EastSideJambo]

1 minute ago, graygo said:

 

Kilmarnock will never win anything with Steve Clarke as manager.

 

This is easy.

You mean like Hearts under Levein? 

[Jodami]

13 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

What Steve Clarke has done at Killie is staggering. Over the same period, he has probably accumulated more points than Rangers, Aberdeen, Hibs, as well as ourselves so I’m not sure that’s a fair point.

 

With a full squad of players fit, we’d have picked up 10-15 points v Livi, Hibs, Killie St.Mirren and Rangers today. The loss of Naisy, Berra, Uche and Souttar have cost us big time, there is no question about that.

 

Leveins not completely blameless, some of the selections have been a bit WTF, especially v Celtic in both games. We missed a pen v Livi ? And they defended excellently. We were the better side v Hibs by miles. We got hit by a sucker punch against a quality Killie side despite being the better team. We were shite v St Mirren. We were shite today but we get a point if the Linesmen is doing his job.

 

We’ve had horrendous luck but we’ve lost key players, quality players and leaders on the park. Confidence is probably now shot to pieces and we play an inform side on Wednesday. It’s bad luck more than bad management without a shadow of a doubt. 

 

If we don’t finish top 4 then yes, we need to change it. We’ll come back and finish the 2nd half of the season strongly though.

Excellent post. Definitely an element of bad luck (we have had a number of goals wrongly disallowed as well) and bad decision making. Levein's substitutions were odd and too late today, to not create a chance in the second half was criminal. 

[graygo]

1 minute ago, EastSideJambo said:

You mean like Hearts under Levein? 

 

Probably and like Hearts if they were under Clarke.

[JamboGraham]

2 minutes ago, EastSideJambo said:

You mean like Hearts under Levein? 

 

To be fair you can throw that one at 11 teams and 11 managers and be pretty sure of being on the money...

[William H. Bonney]

7 minutes ago, EastSideJambo said:

You mean like Hearts under Levein? 

 

Possibly, but very few hearts managers have been lucky enough to win a trophy. 

[By the light]

5 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

 

Clark is already doing better than Levein, last season and this, with a fraction of his budget and Wright’s team will probably go above us on Wednesday night.

 

I don’t want Levein out by the way, judge him over the full season, once we have our best players back, but if we don’t finish top 4 for me it’s time for someone else. Finishing behind Killie 2 seasons running would be unacceptable.

 

Clark is a very good manager. He’s making Killie hard to beat by making them defensive and stealing points away from home. Makes home games a fortress. Something Levein gets hammered for.

 

Tommy Wright is exactly the same. Who do people believe we can get in to make us win every game??

 

 

[Ministry MK2]

10 minutes ago, ToadKiller Dog said:

Big difference in pressure on a hearts manager than a Killie or St Johnstone manager. 

Our expectations demands are a bit higher. 

When Wright side was struggling last season he didn't face any boos in Perth no hearts manager would have got that easy a ride . 

Let's see how Wright manages if he moves into a higher pressure job, same for Clarke but I think he is more capable. 

You realise Clarke has managed in the EPL?

[Cruyff Turn]

12 minutes ago, EastSideJambo said:

If we finish 5th or 6th would you let Levein continue? 

 

Souttar and Berra have been a huge loss. Buy they wouldn't have materially impacted on our limitations from midfield forward. We have no pace, no width and little creativity. There is a heavy emphasis on Naismith and there is a possibility that Uche has become more indispensable the longer he's out in people's minds 

Of course but we might have been able to play a higher line with Berra and Souttar and not conceding territory, not allowing St Mirren to score the goals they did or allowing Killie to score. Who knows. 

 

Naismith is in the 1% of footballers on earth good enough to play as an attacker in the EPL. He’s absolutely paramount to us. He sets the tempo and the standard for the rest of the team. It was like taking the keystone out of an arch, it weakened the team to the point that we couldn’t create chances, Lee became ineffectual, we couldn’t hold the ball and allow Mitchell or Smith to create the overlap, yadda yadda... 

 

I don’t think we will finish 5th or 6th. Once we have Naisy and Uche back, as well as Vanecek, I think we’ll also sign a right winger, we’re stronger than most. We’ll re-group and come back fresher and stronger, then we’ll fight back to finish 3rd or 4th. 

 

Finishing 5th or 6th would require us to be as poor in spells during the 2nd half of the season with a stronger forward line, so if we finished 5th or 6th then a change would probably be justified. 

[ToadKiller Dog]

46 minutes ago, Ministry MK2 said:

You realise Clarke has managed in the EPL?

So has Tony Mowbray. 

 

But relativley speaking the pressure in terms of the league they are in is different at West brom than say spurs 

Like in our league st johnstone and Hearts. 

If Clarke was to finish say 7th would Killie sack him or pressure to sack him? 

If Levein was to finish 7th he likely would have to go back upstairs anyway. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by ToadKiller Dog

[innerjambo]

Levein should manage to get us into 7th place soon, with his superb motivational skills. That would be some achievement, I'm not sure any other manager could do it.

[shaun.lawson]

The referee's performance was absolutely atrocious. However, to suggest we therefore deserved a draw is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. 

 

From moments before Rangers equalised until the end of the game, what did Hearts create? Nothing. When Rangers went down to 10 men, did Hearts ever look like getting back into it? Nope. The ref was dreadful; and so for large parts were we. Without Naismith and Uche, we look lost.

 

However... is that Levein's fault? Not really, no. The run of injuries we've had would've knocked the stuffing out of any side. And unlike in the past, we can't go and splash the cash and live outside our means. Injuries have put the kibosh on our chances - which is how it is for any club being run sensibly. 

 

It's sad what's happened... but get key players back, and we can go on another run. As it was at the start of the season, so it remains now. 3rd place = success; 4th place = satisfactory; worse than 4th place = unacceptable. Depending on what happens in the Cup, of course.

 

The 'real' league is, as so often in the past, the race for 3rd. Killie, Aberdeen etc are our real competition - and with regard to that, it's still all to play for.

[Boab1874]

Fact 2/3. Played 4 lost 4. Will be played 6 lost 6. C L must go

[It should have been ten]

4 hours ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

Just skim over the offside goal and terrible officiating then, aye? Jesus Christ. We deserved a draw, and the only reason we never got it was Madden’s cheating.

 

Exactly this! Close thread 

[Jambothump]

7 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

My opinion is that you are completely clueless and your opinions a pile of shit.

 

There isnt a team in scotland could cope with the injuries weve head and had we won today wed have been joint top of tbe league with teams who have 10 and 20 times the budget

 

ps levein that signed all those players 

 

 

Amen to that, well said

[innerjambo]

6 hours ago, JamboGraham said:

In the context of the OP what does “time to wake up” mean?

Maybe it means start playing better football, instead of utter garbage....... Just a hunch.

[Erik]

The idea that this is a performance that should see Levein walk is a laughable one.

 

But theres no getting away from the fact it was poor. Unfortunately, that's just where we are at the moment. Toothless.

 

5 shots in total.

 

2 shots on target.

 

And even our goal was scored by them.

 

The Madden performance was predictably abysmal - but exactly as predicted before the game, that wasn't the reason for dropping points today.

 

Against a blatantly poor Rangers side, we just had nothing to offer that was ever going to see us emerge from the game with 3 points.