Marvin Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said: Go to the shed. Thanks, never expected to see the same story there. Mods merge please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanks said no Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, The Treasurer said: As I remember, it was our own club that was the first to wear a poppy on their shirts. It came about due to us being forced to play at Aberdeen on Remembrance Sunday (due to TV) therefore meaning the first team would be unable to attend the Haymarket service. Despite pleas to the SPL the game was played on Remembrance Day and the club were given permission to wear a poppy in order to pay their respects. I think it was so well received that it was made a regular thing and others followed. Of course I could be talking bollocks but that's the first time I can recall the wearing a poppy on the team jerseys. We played Aberdeen on 9th November 2003, Leicester City wore poppies on their shirts the week before when they played Blackburn https://www.lcfc.com/news/428985/twih-remembrance-fixture-anniversary Edited November 5, 2018 by The Frenchman Returns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonexile Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, AlphonseCapone said: Talk about fudging issues. This has nothing to do with the IRA. It's about the poppy and why he chooses not to wear it. Why does he not apply his own rules consistently then? Be honest, its because he is a disgusting scumbag who is evidently a clandestine supporter of an organisation of child murderers. Read Nemanja Matic for how to do it respectfully. McLean is the pr*ck’s pr*ck, with the the world’s biggest chip on his shoulder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 59 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said: No issue fudging whatsoever. He is outspoken against actions committed by the British in his home town. I have yet to hear him speak out against terrorism that claimed more victims in that region than any military action. I understand it's about his reasons for not wearing the Poppy. My question is, how does he show his displeasure at the murders of countless Catholics by an organization who claim to be upstanding for them? Because if he doesn't, he's a hypocrite, a republican and supporting terrorism. Isn't he "outspoken" about his reasons for not wearing the poppy because he was getting abuse and death threats from Loyalists for not wearing it so he decided to explain his reasoning? I'm not sure he wanted to make himself the poster boy of a particular political issue. I don't know his thoughts or feelings on the IRA and what they've done. I also don't know whether he does speak out, does any work for his home community on the issues etc. All I do know is, he doesn't wear a poppy and folk lose their shit over it. Also, don't know why you've thrown Republican into that last list like it's necessarily a negative. The vast majority of the world are Republicans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said: Isn't he "outspoken" about his reasons for not wearing the poppy because he was getting abuse and death threats from Loyalists for not wearing it so he decided to explain his reasoning? I'm not sure he wanted to make himself the poster boy of a particular political issue. I don't know his thoughts or feelings on the IRA and what they've done. I also don't know whether he does speak out, does any work for his home community on the issues etc. All I do know is, he doesn't wear a poppy and folk lose their shit over it. Also, don't know why you've thrown Republican into that last list like it's necessarily a negative. The vast majority of the world are Republicans. Sigh. Ok, Irish Republican. The kind that like to murder their own women and children. We have differing views, and it's unlikely either of us will change our minds. I do respect your opinion, even if I don't concur. I respect his decision not to wear one, I even tend to agree. My problem lies with he is standing up for his community regarding the actions of the British, I can applaud that. However, there are others who have damaged his community far more who he doesn't appear to have any problem with. That is the reason I call him an (Irish) Republican, a terrorist sympathizer and a hypocrite. His problem isn't with atrocities and crimes against his people, it's who committed them. Edited November 5, 2018 by Bridge of Djoum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 14 minutes ago, maroonexile said: Why does he not apply his own rules consistently then? Be honest, its because he is a disgusting scumbag who is evidently a clandestine supporter of an organisation of child murderers. Read Nemanja Matic for how to do it respectfully. McLean is the pr*ck’s pr*ck, with the the world’s biggest chip on his shoulder. I don't know what you mean about applying his rules consistently? He might well be a scumbag, I honestly know nothing about the guy beyond the poppy issue. I don't even know if he's any good at football. In all honesty, I understand McClean's reasons more than I do Matic's. Not that it matters, it's not for me to judge why or if someone wears it. Does it mean he necessarily supports the IRA? I wouldn't say so. He might, but it doesn't necessarily follow. I think it's obvious why McClean's reason causes a much more visceral reaction than Matic's do. Here is a link to his open letter when the issue first came up in 2014, read the full thing at the bottom of the article and tell me how he has been any less respectful than Matic because I honestly don't see it: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/11218322/James-McClean-Why-I-wont-wear-a-poppy.html Just to clarify I'm not some mad McClean supporter, have no feelings on the lad one way or another. He might very well be scum for all I know. But I find this annual affair with him and the poppy a bit of a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said: I don't know what you mean about applying his rules consistently? He might well be a scumbag, I honestly know nothing about the guy beyond the poppy issue. I don't even know if he's any good at football. In all honesty, I understand McClean's reasons more than I do Matic's. Not that it matters, it's not for me to judge why or if someone wears it. Does it mean he necessarily supports the IRA? I wouldn't say so. He might, but it doesn't necessarily follow. I think it's obvious why McClean's reason causes a much more visceral reaction than Matic's do. Here is a link to his open letter when the issue first came up in 2014, read the full thing at the bottom of the article and tell me how he has been any less respectful than Matic because I honestly don't see it: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/11218322/James-McClean-Why-I-wont-wear-a-poppy.html Just to clarify I'm not some mad McClean supporter, have no feelings on the lad one way or another. He might very well be scum for all I know. But I find this annual affair with him and the poppy a bit of a joke. Good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 13 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said: Sigh. Ok, Irish Republican. The kind that like to murder their own women and children. We have differing views, and it's unlikely either of us will change our minds. I do respect your opinion, even if I don't concur. I respect his decision not to wear one, I even tend to agree. My problem lies with he is standing up for his community regarding the actions of the British, I can applaud that. However, there are others who have damaged his community far more who he doesn't appear to have any problem with. That is the reason I call him an (Irish) Republican, a terrorist sympathizer and a hypocrite. His problem isn't with atrocities and crimes against his people, it's who committed them. Fair enough. I think we agree on most aspects of this tbf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Just now, AlphonseCapone said: Fair enough. I think we agree on most aspects of this tbf You could well be right, friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Some people need to remember that our soldiers fought for our freedom of speech and thought. If anyone doesn't want to wear a poppy that is their individual right. This annual remembrance should be about remembering the casualties of all conflicts. I buy a poppy and wear it but my thoughts on remembrance day extend to more than just loss of life by British subjects. Perhaps if politicians remembered that there would be less wars. Berating and bullying people for not wearing a poppy is against democracy imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3fingersreid Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 10 hours ago, The Treasurer said: As I remember, it was our own club that was the first to wear a poppy on their shirts. It came about due to us being forced to play at Aberdeen on Remembrance Sunday (due to TV) therefore meaning the first team would be unable to attend the Haymarket service. Despite pleas to the SPL the game was played on Remembrance Day and the club were given permission to wear a poppy in order to pay their respects. I think it was so well received that it was made a regular thing and others followed. Of course I could be talking bollocks but that's the first time I can recall the wearing a poppy on the team jerseys. What I remember is Craig Levein was raging about us being made to play on Remembrance Sunday , he basically told the league that the first team WOULD be attending the service and if it made the team late for the game so be it . They weren’t and I’m sure we won ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 11 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said: Isn't he "outspoken" about his reasons for not wearing the poppy because he was getting abuse and death threats from Loyalists for not wearing it so he decided to explain his reasoning? I'm not sure he wanted to make himself the poster boy of a particular political issue. I don't know his thoughts or feelings on the IRA and what they've done. I also don't know whether he does speak out, does any work for his home community on the issues etc. All I do know is, he doesn't wear a poppy and folk lose their shit over it. Also, don't know why you've thrown Republican into that last list like it's necessarily a negative. The vast majority of the world are Republicans. McClean was taking "abuse" long before anything to do with poppies and it was mainly due to his decision and what hoops he jumped through to play for the Republic, despite being in the IFA system since he was a schoolkid. Personally, I couldn't give a shit if he wears a poppy or not. He is simply a prize moron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: McClean was taking "abuse" long before anything to do with poppies and it was mainly due to his decision and what hoops he jumped through to play for the Republic, despite being in the IFA system since he was a schoolkid. Personally, I couldn't give a shit if he wears a poppy or not. He is simply a prize moron. Fair enough Geoff. The guy didn't enter my consciousness until this annual poppy saga involving him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 1 hour ago, AlphonseCapone said: Fair enough Geoff. The guy didn't enter my consciousness until this annual poppy saga involving him. Why is it an annual saga though? McClean makes a point every year of saying he isn't wearing one. We know FFS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 24 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: Why is it an annual saga though? McClean makes a point every year of saying he isn't wearing one. We know FFS! As far as I can see he was forced to explain his reasons after getting abuse so not sure what he has done wrong, apart from annoying the poppy fascists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Internet Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 21 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: Why is it an annual saga though? McClean makes a point every year of saying he isn't wearing one. We know FFS! It's an annual saga because the media keep doing hysterical articles and reports on it to make sure people are pure raging about it and then he has to do his usual statement that he's been doing for ages now. It's been literally 6 years since it originally happened and it still goes on every year Absolute circus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 17 hours ago, Thommo414 said: Preferably not. As if we need another widely hated Irish figure in this country to accuse us of all being a bunch of filthy racists Agreed - but watch this space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 15 hours ago, XB52 said: How does not wearing a poppy equate to hating britain?? The likes of McLean and Stokes see the poppy as a symbol of British suppression in Ireland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 29 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said: It's an annual saga because the media keep doing hysterical articles and reports on it to make sure people are pure raging about it and then he has to do his usual statement that he's been doing for ages now. It's been literally 6 years since it originally happened and it still goes on every year Absolute circus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 1 hour ago, XB52 said: As far as I can see he was forced to explain his reasons after getting abuse so not sure what he has done wrong, apart from annoying the poppy fascists I'll take your word for it but to be frank, a no mark like McClean deserves no attention at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 (edited) 23 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said: That would be correct if he wasn’t born in Northern Ireland and thus British. You really need to do some research before rattling that cat-flap of a gob! The Good Friday Agreement (in among the things, despite constant assertions it doesn't do, like guarantee an invisible border without controls) embodies the principle that the people of Northern Ireland can freely choose to be citizens of the Irish Republic or of the United Kingdom. I think I can make a fair stab at which is McClean's choice. PS I fully respect the right of anyone not to wear a poppy. In fact the whole thing has got completely out of hand with people on TV and in public life generally forced by public opinion to wear a poppy for weeks leading up to Armistice Day. You even seen foreign correspondents around the world, even in conflict situations, wearing a poppy. I still buy one but don't wear it. The latest fad down here is to decorate the streets with giant red poppies in the trees or lamp posts roads like the increasingly widespread Halloween decorations. Tasteless and cheapening. I actually think there is a case for this being the last year of such major remembrance of Armistice Day and that it should revert to what it was or most of the years since the day itself ... a n opportunity for mainly quiet and unobtrusive contemplation at individuals' discretion. Edited November 6, 2018 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Mauricio Pinilla said: It's an annual saga because the media keep doing hysterical articles and reports on it to make sure people are pure raging about it and then he has to do his usual statement that he's been doing for ages now. It's been literally 6 years since it originally happened and it still goes on every year Absolute circus. Indeed. The whole thing is pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 18 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: The Good Friday Agreement (in among the things, despite constant assertions it doesn't do, like guarantee an invisible border without controls) embodies the principle that the people of Northern Ireland can freely choose to be citizens of the Irish Republic or of the United Kingdom. I think I can make a fair stab at which is McClean's choice. PS I fully respect the right of anyone not to wear a poppy. In fact the whole thing has got completely out of hand with people on TV and in public life generally forced by public opinion to wear a poppy for weeks leading up to Armistice Day. You even seen foreign correspondents around the world, even in conflict situations, wearing a poppy. I still buy one but don't wear it. The latest fad down here is to decorate the streets with giant red poppies in the trees or lamp posts roads like the increasingly widespread Halloween decorations. Tasteless and cheapening. I actually think there is a case for this being the last year of such major remembrance of Armistice Day and that it should revert to what it was or most of the years since the day itself ... a n opportunity for mainly quiet and unobtrusive contemplation at individuals' discretion. Utter drivel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Francis Albert said: The Good Friday Agreement (in among the things, despite constant assertions it doesn't do, like guarantee an invisible border without controls) embodies the principle that the people of Northern Ireland can freely choose to be citizens of the Irish Republic or of the United Kingdom. I think I can make a fair stab at which is McClean's choice. PS I fully respect the right of anyone not to wear a poppy. In fact the whole thing has got completely out of hand with people on TV and in public life generally forced by public opinion to wear a poppy for weeks leading up to Armistice Day. You even seen foreign correspondents around the world, even in conflict situations, wearing a poppy. I still buy one but don't wear it. The latest fad down here is to decorate the streets with giant red poppies in the trees or lamp posts roads like the increasingly widespread Halloween decorations. Tasteless and cheapening. I actually think there is a case for this being the last year of such major remembrance of Armistice Day and that it should revert to what it was or most of the years since the day itself ... a n opportunity for mainly quiet and unobtrusive contemplation at individuals' discretion. Can't believe I am going to post this but agree 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: I'll take your word for it but to be frank, a no mark like McClean deserves no attention at all. I agree but the op obviously couldn't miss the opportunity to air his political views Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 52 minutes ago, ri Alban said: Utter drivel! Any bit in particular? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Francis Albert said: The Good Friday Agreement (in among the things, despite constant assertions it doesn't do, like guarantee an invisible border without controls) embodies the principle that the people of Northern Ireland can freely choose to be citizens of the Irish Republic or of the United Kingdom. I think I can make a fair stab at which is McClean's choice. PS I fully respect the right of anyone not to wear a poppy. In fact the whole thing has got completely out of hand with people on TV and in public life generally forced by public opinion to wear a poppy for weeks leading up to Armistice Day. You even seen foreign correspondents around the world, even in conflict situations, wearing a poppy. I still buy one but don't wear it. The latest fad down here is to decorate the streets with giant red poppies in the trees or lamp posts roads like the increasingly widespread Halloween decorations. Tasteless and cheapening. I actually think there is a case for this being the last year of such major remembrance of Armistice Day and that it should revert to what it was or most of the years since the day itself ... a n opportunity for mainly quiet and unobtrusive contemplation at individuals' discretion. I noticed this on my estate this morning. It looks absolutely awful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said: Any bit in particular? The Border Nooks. He's been touting this non border pish in every thread. He thinks because it isn't mentioned in the GFA that it doesn't exist. The fact is, if you put a border up, everything about the Irish side of NI becomes annulled. How can you be Irish if you have a hard border that makes you effectively British. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 (edited) 59 minutes ago, ri Alban said: The Border Nooks. He's been touting this non border pish in every thread. He thinks because it isn't mentioned in the GFA that it doesn't exist. The fact is, if you put a border up, everything about the Irish side of NI becomes annulled. How can you be Irish if you have a hard border that makes you effectively British. I have never said the border as an issue doesn't exist. In fact I have said quite the opposite. I am glad you at last acknowledge that it has nothing to do with the terms of the GFA. I see Sinn Fein were still demonstrating the other day with banners suggesting that Brexit will breach the GFA. As for your latest spin, there are more than 200,000 French citizens living in London who have to show a passport to travel between the UK and France. None of them consider themselves to be effectively British. Same goes for the many other foreign nationals, EU and non-EU, who live in London. And in fact no-one has suggested the Irish border will involve anything as intrusive as passport controls, the absence of which between the UK and the Republic long predates "free movement of people" in the EU. If and when Scotland becomes independent and if that involves some sort of harder border between England and Scotland (as presumably it will if Brexit happens and Scotland joins the EU) then not for one moment will I consider myself "effectively English" despite living here for over 40 years. I don't think for one moment those who consider themselves Irish (as I said a right enshrined in the GFA) are less confident of their nationality than I am. Edited November 6, 2018 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 48 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: I have never said the border as an issue doesn't exist. In fact I have said quite the opposite. I am glad you at last acknowledge that it has nothing to do with the terms of the GFA. I see Sinn Fein were still demonstrating the other day with banners suggesting that Brexit will breach the GFA. As for your latest spin, there are more than 200,000 French citizens living in London who have to show a passport to travel between the UK and France. None of them consider themselves to be effectively British. Same goes for the many other foreign nationals, EU and non-EU, who live in London. And in fact no-one has suggested the Irish border will involve anything as intrusive as passport controls, the absence of which between the UK and the Republic long predates "free movement of people" in the EU. If and when Scotland becomes independent and if that involves some sort of harder border between England and Scotland (as presumably it will if Brexit happens and Scotland joins the EU) then not for one moment will I consider myself "effectively English" despite living here for over 40 years. I don't think for one moment those who consider themselves Irish (as I said a right enshrined in the GFA) are less confident of their nationality than I am. Comparing French folk in London to the complicated political, religious and national issues of Ireland that have saw the death of over 3,000 people in most of our lifetimes and is still contentious to many is utterly absurd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said: Comparing French folk in London to the complicated political, religious and national issues of Ireland that have saw the death of over 3,000 people in most of our lifetimes and is still contentious to many is utterly absurd. Anyone who has been to a Celtic game knows that many born in Scotland still identify as Irish. Are Irish people who actually live in Ireland so unsure of their identity that some sort of customs control will make them "effectively British"? I was in New York recently and in one of the innumerable Irish pubs in that city the barman, about my age and I'd guess a native American sang along to a CD of Irish rebel songs (selected for the benefit of his British customers? - we were about the only customers there) including one about fighting British soldiers for 800 years and promising to fight them for another 800 years. I doubt he considered himself effectively anything other than Irish. Edited November 6, 2018 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 1 minute ago, Francis Albert said: Anyone who has been to a Celtic game knows that many born in Scotland still identify as Irish. Are Irish people who actually live in Ireland so unsure of their identity that some sort of customs control will make them "effectively British"? I was in New York recently and in one of the innumerable Irish pubs in that city the barman, about my age and I'd guess a native American sang along to a CD of Irish rebel songs including one about fighting British soldiers for 800 years and promising to fight them for another 800 years. I doubt he considered himself effectively anything other than Irish. I honestly can't work out if you're just at it. If it was as straightforward as you are trying to portray then I doubt the millions upon millions of people who've died throughout history fighting for their independence and perceived nationhood would have bothered. They could have sang a song instead and that would have been that since some American faux Irish roaster deems it enough for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 FA says the GFA and self identity of people living in NI doesn't matter. So that's that then. Glad you managed to solve NI's problems by pretending they don't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 1 minute ago, Cade said: FA says the GFA and self identity of people living in NI doesn't matter. So that's that then. Glad you managed to solve NI's problems by pretending they don't exist. And you pretend that I said things which I didn't say. While people pretend that the GFA says that there must be an invisible and completly open border when it says no such thing. But of course only Leavers lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 18 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said: I honestly can't work out if you're just at it. If it was as straightforward as you are trying to portray then I doubt the millions upon millions of people who've died throughout history fighting for their independence and perceived nationhood would have bothered. They could have sang a song instead and that would have been that since some American faux Irish roaster deems it enough for him. I never said it was straightforward. But I don't think misrepreseting the terms of the GFA helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 On 05/11/2018 at 13:19, Des Lynam said: Personally I fully respect his position on this matter. Fair play to him for standing up for his principles. Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 9 hours ago, Francis Albert said: The Good Friday Agreement (in among the things, despite constant assertions it doesn't do, like guarantee an invisible border without controls) embodies the principle that the people of Northern Ireland can freely choose to be citizens of the Irish Republic or of the United Kingdom. I think I can make a fair stab at which is McClean's choice. PS I fully respect the right of anyone not to wear a poppy. In fact the whole thing has got completely out of hand with people on TV and in public life generally forced by public opinion to wear a poppy for weeks leading up to Armistice Day. You even seen foreign correspondents around the world, even in conflict situations, wearing a poppy. I still buy one but don't wear it. The latest fad down here is to decorate the streets with giant red poppies in the trees or lamp posts roads like the increasingly widespread Halloween decorations. Tasteless and cheapening. I actually think there is a case for this being the last year of such major remembrance of Armistice Day and that it should revert to what it was or most of the years since the day itself ... a n opportunity for mainly quiet and unobtrusive contemplation at individuals' discretion. Good post FA. A lot of food for thought there. I find myself agreeing with much of what you say. Remembrance has grown into a major festival. It was never like that in the years immediately after WW2 and up to 1980s. People used to pay their respects quietly and wore their poppy with dignity . Nowadays it seems that people are pressured into observing remembrance which is totally against the principle of the occasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 23 hours ago, Francis Albert said: The Good Friday Agreement (in among the things, despite constant assertions it doesn't do, like guarantee an invisible border without controls) embodies the principle that the people of Northern Ireland can freely choose to be citizens of the Irish Republic or of the United Kingdom. I think I can make a fair stab at which is McClean's choice. PS I fully respect the right of anyone not to wear a poppy. In fact the whole thing has got completely out of hand with people on TV and in public life generally forced by public opinion to wear a poppy for weeks leading up to Armistice Day. You even seen foreign correspondents around the world, even in conflict situations, wearing a poppy. I still buy one but don't wear it. The latest fad down here is to decorate the streets with giant red poppies in the trees or lamp posts roads like the increasingly widespread Halloween decorations. Tasteless and cheapening. I actually think there is a case for this being the last year of such major remembrance of Armistice Day and that it should revert to what it was or most of the years since the day itself ... a n opportunity for mainly quiet and unobtrusive contemplation at individuals' discretion. Handmade poppies to be displayed on churches appears to be the thing this year. All very well and good (Liberton Kirk looks stunning tbf), but judging by the feature i just listened to on Radio 5 from a Church down south, it is becoming a game to make as many as possible, and everyone is having a jolly good time knitting and crocheting (sp?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said: Handmade poppies to be displayed on churches appears to be the thing this year. All very well and good (Liberton Kirk looks stunning tbf), but judging by the feature i just listened to on Radio 5 from a Church down south, it is becoming a game to make as many as possible, and everyone is having a jolly good time knitting and crocheting (sp?) Also more prevalent than in previous years are fancy looking poppy badges (for men) and brooches (for women). See Huw Edwards ad Theresa May for example. Why? The simple paper poppy is dignified and once universal. If people want to contribute more why not just pay more for the simple classic and common old paper poppy? Why make it a fashion item? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 15 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Also more prevalent than in previous years are fancy looking poppy badges (for men) and brooches (for women). See Huw Edwards ad Theresa May for example. Why? The simple paper poppy is dignified and once universal. If people want to contribute more why not just pay more for the simple classic and common old paper poppy? Why make it a fashion item? Yeah, the poppy/club badge thing is lacking taste imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Jersey_HMFC Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) On 05/11/2018 at 22:16, AlphonseCapone said: I don't know what you mean about applying his rules consistently? He might well be a scumbag, I honestly know nothing about the guy beyond the poppy issue. I don't even know if he's any good at football. In all honesty, I understand McClean's reasons more than I do Matic's. Not that it matters, it's not for me to judge why or if someone wears it. Does it mean he necessarily supports the IRA? I wouldn't say so. He might, but it doesn't necessarily follow. I think it's obvious why McClean's reason causes a much more visceral reaction than Matic's do. Here is a link to his open letter when the issue first came up in 2014, read the full thing at the bottom of the article and tell me how he has been any less respectful than Matic because I honestly don't see it: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/11218322/James-McClean-Why-I-wont-wear-a-poppy.html Just to clarify I'm not some mad McClean supporter, have no feelings on the lad one way or another. He might very well be scum for all I know. But I find this annual affair with him and the poppy a bit of a joke. I think theres been conflation on this thread by some that an Irish person not wearing a poppy automatically makes that person a supporter of the IRA, the one doesn't follow the other. Like you I've no idea what his views are on the IRA, quite frankly I don't care. I think the presumption is that most decent folk abhor terrorism and unless there is something to displace that presumption we can assume they do. If a Muslim said they weren't wearing a poppy because of Iraq/Syria/Afghanistan that doesn't mean they support ISIS Edited November 7, 2018 by Steve_Jersey_HMFC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) On 05/11/2018 at 14:17, Mr Elwood P said: You said he shouldn't have a say as he's from a different country, which I then disproved. Silencing dissenting voices is a bit too right wing for my liking. I think you'll find dissenting voices silenced in communist and left wing socialist countries as well. If not more so. Edited November 7, 2018 by Seymour M Hersh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 On 05/11/2018 at 21:13, Homme said: Sooner we give NI back to Ireland the better. Yeah I agree just get rid and ASAP although I’m not sure a lot of southern Irish particularly want the hassle of the lunatics in the north. The ultra nationalist Irish do but the more sensible ones I’m not so sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 hour ago, jack D and coke said: Yeah I agree just get rid and ASAP although I’m not sure a lot of southern Irish particularly want the hassle of the lunatics in the north. The ultra nationalist Irish do but the more sensible ones I’m not so sure. Yeah I don't think anybody really wants NI these days tbh. Good for nothing except votes every four years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, Homme said: Yeah I don't think anybody really wants NI these days tbh. Good for nothing except votes every four years. Bit like Scotland and certain areas of England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said: I think you'll find dissenting voices silenced in communist and left wing socialist countries as well. If not more so. Correct. I always think of political beliefs as a circle. The joining point is where the really far left and right meet. I think that makes sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 6 hours ago, Nookie Bear said: Yeah, the poppy/club badge thing is lacking taste imo Completely agree. Making them more money though so it's only going to get worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 12 minutes ago, Notts1874 said: Correct. I always think of political beliefs as a circle. The joining point is where the really far left and right meet. I think that makes sense? My thoughts too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Elwood P Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 4 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said: I think you'll find dissenting voices silenced in communist and left wing socialist countries as well. If not more so. Think you’ll find that I don’t disagree with that point. Just because Marxism has failed doesn’t mean that right wing politics are ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 On 05/11/2018 at 21:13, Homme said: Sooner we give NI back to Ireland the better. NI is part of Ireland. "Giving it back" to the Republic without a referendum majority in the North would be a breach of the GFA. This condition of the GFA and commitment of the UK to accept such a vote is the core of the GFA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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