William H. Bonney Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 In saying that a Celtic fan at my work is starting to make me think about joining those in group number 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riccarton3 Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 7 hours ago, Taffin said: Okay, so given their comms on the topic I'd say it's fairly likely the answer to both of those is "yes". Then what? Equally (and with minimal likelihood, thankfully), they are aware of it but not concerned by it then that suggests we are okay with being a club aligned to a right wing element and it is actually those opposed to that behaviour who are unwelcome. What then? Pick a new club to support? Finally, they have their head in the clouds and know nothing of it. What then? This thread has, in the main, been he said, she said, flags, Tommy Robinson and internal arguing. When asked what 'we' do to get rid of what 'we' dont like, the answer is to ask the club if they are aware of it? Sorry, but that will achieve nothing, they know about it, they are concerned by it and they are trying to eradicate it...though failing. I reckon those who are so outwardly opposed to it are more interested in having it as ammo to argue with over the internet than actually doing anything about it given we are 20 odd pages in with very little proposed other than 'ban the Union and the NI flags' Edit: I appreciate you said in the first instance so I don't want to just shoot it down. I genuinely would like to know what you will do dependent on their response to the opening gambit as the only way we can move forward is my having some kind of actionable plan. Or, just continue to put up with it and moan about it online. Banning flags is a good start, then ban the folk that can't adhere to the sectarian and racist advice given on posters outside the ground and through the announcer. Heart of Midlothian football club does not support extreme views. It is a sporting institution for the community with no political leanings. Perhaps the club should look to see how other clubs deal wit such issues. No point looking West, obviously, but perhaps on the continent. Are there any examples of clubs who have stemmed overtly right wing activities and were still left with some songs that 'got the crowd going'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonexile Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Dino Velvet said: In saying that a Celtic fan at my work is starting to make me think about joining those in group number 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haveyouheard 22 Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said: Banning flags is a good start, then ban the folk that can't adhere to the sectarian and racist advice given on posters outside the ground and through the announcer. Heart of Midlothian football club does not support extreme views. It is a sporting institution for the community with no political leanings. Perhaps the club should look to see how other clubs deal wit such issues. No point looking West, obviously, but perhaps on the continent. Are there any examples of clubs who have stemmed overtly right wing activities and were still left with some songs that 'got the crowd going'? I feel thats a tad harsh, by all means address the situation the best we can ,but my experience is that many who join in certain songs go week in and out and aint for changing, especially in the big games.Wish I had the answer but ban this and that aint for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haveyouheard 22 Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 Sorry Hadnt read all the thread I have no bother with flags and most songs, but this EDL shite should be seriously looked at hopefully its only small numbers and dealt with asap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 25 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said: Banning flags is a good start, then ban the folk that can't adhere to the sectarian and racist advice given on posters outside the ground and through the announcer. Heart of Midlothian football club does not support extreme views. It is a sporting institution for the community with no political leanings. Perhaps the club should look to see how other clubs deal wit such issues. No point looking West, obviously, but perhaps on the continent. Are there any examples of clubs who have stemmed overtly right wing activities and were still left with some songs that 'got the crowd going'? Do you not think you're somewhat overdoing the "right wing activities "? One flag seem to be what we're talking about. And a couple of mock ups on social media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 19 hours ago, jake said: It's also worth pointing out that the most overtly political intrusion in and around our club in the last few years has been from the SNP . How so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riccarton3 Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 2 hours ago, MacDonald Jardine said: Do you not think you're somewhat overdoing the "right wing activities "? One flag seem to be what we're talking about. And a couple of mock ups on social media. little doubt there's a problem - there's definitely bigots attaching themselves to the club with a dubious song book and paraphernalia. The posters above were looking to move the discussion onto how to deal with it whatever level it is at. Have you got any ideas you'd like to see in place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAndy Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 18 hours ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said: would be good to see if the club are aware of the scale of the problem i know it's difficult to estimate but out of a 16000 hearts crowd what numbers would you put in the 4 categories below (1) genuine right-wing organised infultration (2) folk who regularly sing the billy boys but aren't as bad as (1) (3) folk who don't partake but acknowledge it's there but don't think it's a big issue / have bigger issues in their lives to worry about (4) folk who are sickened beyond description of the bigotry within the hearts crowd and believe its a major problem could be helpful when approaching the club? I sit somewhere between 3 & 4. For the vast majority of our games it's not much of an issue at all and you rarely hear a sectarian song or see flag waving. Then we play Hibs, Celtic and Rangers and the atmosphere changes in the pubs pre match and during the games. These games bring out a poisonous element that leads me in to category 4 above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, jack D and coke said: How so? I'm guessing that the poster you quoted was referring to the independence referendum and those fans who set up stalls outside Tynecastle to say that HMFC, rather than they as individuals, supported independence. In hindsight, i.e. if they had waited to see the outcome of the vote, they would have discovered using a source based in Gorgie/Dalry was a bit of a daft thing to do in two ways, in as much as they shouldn't have been using the club's name at all and the area in which the club is geographically located produce the biggest percentage in Scotland of those voting against independence. Some have been asking why there has been an upturn in Unionism of sorts within the last few years, and it is very possible that the referendum in terms of independence has played a big part in that, as it created a huge fracture in Scotland in general, not just within the HMFC support. Edited November 9, 2018 by portobellojambo1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoncurMacdonaldMercer Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 45 minutes ago, TexasAndy said: I sit somewhere between 3 & 4. For the vast majority of our games it's not much of an issue at all and you rarely hear a sectarian song or see flag waving. Then we play Hibs, Celtic and Rangers and the atmosphere changes in the pubs pre match and during the games. These games bring out a poisonous element that leads me in to category 4 above. cheers - it's good to start to get an idea where folk are rather than the usual 'the decent hearts fans are outraged and sick to the soles of the their feet' etc etc im guessing there's a fair amount of 3/4s as you describe who'd shift towards 4 after a certain event occurrence as you say probably against one of those sides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoncurMacdonaldMercer Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 53 minutes ago, TexasAndy said: I sit somewhere between 3 & 4. For the vast majority of our games it's not much of an issue at all and you rarely hear a sectarian song or see flag waving. Then we play Hibs, Celtic and Rangers and the atmosphere changes in the pubs pre match and during the games. These games bring out a poisonous element that leads me in to category 4 above. from what I see there's also a shift of some formerly self-respecting (3)s towards (2) at those games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 1 hour ago, portobellojambo1 said: I'm guessing that the poster you quoted was referring to the independence referendum and those fans who set up stalls outside Tynecastle to say that HMFC, rather than they as individuals, supported independence. In hindsight, i.e. if they had waited to see the outcome of the vote, they would have discovered using a source based in Gorgie/Dalry was a bit of a daft thing to do in two ways, in as much as they shouldn't have been using the club's name at all and the area in which the club is geographically located produce the biggest percentage in Scotland of those voting against independence. Some have been asking why there has been an upturn in Unionism of sorts within the last few years, and it is very possible that the referendum in terms of independence has played a big part in that, as it created a huge fracture in Scotland in general, not just within the HMFC support. I don’t remember it personally but voting Yes doesn’t equal SNP just like voting No doesn’t make you a Tory. And all Hearts fans don’t come from Gorgie/Dalry either so another moot point just like all Hibs fans don’t come from leith or rangers fans from govan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adayinmay Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 As to what to do to move this on .... I'd suggest contacting the Club, FoH and major supporters groups and get them to meet. Action has to come from the fans through the vehicle of the Club. Its our Club and we should be informing them what we'd like to happen and we should be doing this through FoH etc. Ive emailed both with sadly no reply yet ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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