Armed Forces Day

[John Findlay]

2 minutes ago, Jodami said:

I can understand your argument, I just disagree John. 

That's fine.

[Jodami]

4 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

You're right. We should do away with the Armed Forces. We'll still be safe and be able to go about our lives without any threat whatsoever.

 Clearly not what I said at all, I have stated that I think the armed forces are political and the club should not be associated with anything political. I have also stated that I support the covenant. By all means ask or comment about my specific points but please don't use your snidey little Rees-Moggesque tactics to infer something different. 

[Maroon Sailor]

5 minutes ago, Jodami said:

 Clearly not what I said at all, I have stated that I think the armed forces are political and the club should not be associated with anything political. I have also stated that I support the covenant. By all means ask or comment about my specific points but please don't use your snidey little Rees-Moggesque tactics to infer something different. 

 

The whole frigging World is political

[BelgeJambo]

57 minutes ago, Jodami said:

It's a democracy, I pay taxes and we have law. Our armed forces have been used as a political tool for decades, the last time they actively defended the country is over 70 years ago. 

What a pile of shite you talk 

[Jodami]

1 minute ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

The whole frigging World is political

So why feel the need to bring it into our football club? 

[Maroon Sailor]

1 minute ago, Jodami said:

So why feel the need to bring it into our football club? 

 

Who's bringing what in to our football club ?

[Central Belt 1874]

3 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Who's bringing what in to our football club ?

 

Why do you feel that Heart Of Midlothian FC need to have an Armed Forces day at Tynecastle? 

 

 

[Maroon Sailor]

2 minutes ago, Central Belt 1874 said:

 

Why do you feel that Heart Of Midlothian FC need to have an Armed Forces day at Tynecastle? 

 

 

 

I don't

[TyphoonJambo]

3 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

I don't

I do, this could go on for ages!!!

[Central Belt 1874]

1 minute ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

I don't

 

So what did Heart Of Midlothian FC gain in a positive way today from having them here? What advantage has it given our club over our rivals?

 

 

 

 

[maroonlegions]

3 minutes ago, Central Belt 1874 said:

 

Why do you feel that Heart Of Midlothian FC need to have an Armed Forces day at Tynecastle? 

 

 

Paying  respect  and supporting  those who would put their lives on the line to protect your and mines freedoms .

Why do you feel the need to ask your question. 

 

Why do you feel its not relevant to ANY sport  that seeks  to support or pay respect to such organisations?? 

[maroonlegions]

Just now, Central Belt 1874 said:

 

So what did Heart Of Midlothian FC gain in a positive way today from having them here? What advantage has it given our club over our rivals?

 

 

 

 

Feck me . 

 

Advantage.

 

 

 

[Maroon Sailor]

1 minute ago, Central Belt 1874 said:

 

So what did Heart Of Midlothian FC gain in a positive way today from having them here? What advantage has it given our club over our rivals?

 

 

 

 

 

You have to ask the club that.

 

Not sure the 2nd question is relevant 

[Central Belt 1874]

Just now, maroonlegions said:

Feck me . 

 

Advantage.

 

 

 

 

Did all football clubs partake in this across the UK? If not, why did they not get involved?

 

 

[Maroon Sailor]

1 minute ago, Central Belt 1874 said:

 

Did all football clubs partake in this across the UK? If not, why did they not get involved?

 

 

 

Has it ruined your day ?

[Central Belt 1874]

1 minute ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

You have to ask the club that.

 

Not sure the 2nd question is relevant 

 

I don’t think having them here today had any relevence to Heart Of Midlothian FC.

 

I hope it was a one off.

[Central Belt 1874]

Just now, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Has it ruined your day ?

 

How could it ruin my day? What a strange question.

[Maroon Sailor]

Just now, Central Belt 1874 said:

 

How could it ruin my day? What a strange question.

 

You seem a bit upset over it

[Central Belt 1874]

Just now, Maroon Sailor said:

 

You seem a bit upset over it

[portobellojambo1]

1 minute ago, Central Belt 1874 said:

 

I don’t think having them here today had any relevence to Heart Of Midlothian FC.

 

I hope it was a one off.

 

If you were at the game you may well have heard Ann speak at H/T. When speaking she used the word annual. When they next visit I'd hope they just get the opportunity to watch the game. However, I'd imagine the family of the gentleman who took unwell today in the main stand may have been reasonably pleased there were military personnel in the stand today, as it was a soldier who was first on the scene and stayed with and comforted the person until the ambulance service arrived to take him (the patient) away for further investigations.

[Central Belt 1874]

1 minute ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

If you were at the game you may well have heard Ann speak at H/T. When speaking she used the word annual. When they next visit I'd hope they just get the opportunity to watch the game. However, I'd imagine the family of the gentleman who took unwell today in the main stand may have been reasonably pleased there were military personnel in the stand today, as it was a soldier who was first on the scene and stayed with and comforted the person until the ambulance service arrived to take him (the patient) away for further investigations.

 

Really dissapointed to hear its to become an annual event/occasion. 

 

 

 

 

[Maroon Sailor]

1 minute ago, Central Belt 1874 said:

 

Really dissapointed to hear its to become an annual event/occasion. 

 

 

 

 

 

Why ?

[portobellojambo1]

1 minute ago, Central Belt 1874 said:

 

Really dissapointed to hear its to become an annual event/occasion. 

 

 

 

 

 

It is a matter you will have to take up with the club. Again, during her conversation with Scott Wilson at H/T, Ann explained things in detail including why she thought that in terms of HMFC it made perfect sense why the club had signed up to this. Nothing I saw outside or inside Tynecastle today caused me any offence . The first time anything will appear at Tynecastle which causes me nothing but offence will be on 11 August.

[Central Belt 1874]

2 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Why ?

 

Despite what Budge says, they have no relevance to our club and I don’t see how they are going to help us grow as a club, because that’s all I’m interested in. Did Budge get the Armed Forces in to her companies for appreciation days before she made her millions? I don’t think so.

 

 

1 minute ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

It is a matter you will have to take up with the club. Again, during her conversation with Scott Wilson at H/T, Ann explained things in detail including why she thought that in terms of HMFC it made perfect sense why the club had signed up to this. Nothing I saw outside or inside Tynecastle today caused me any offence . The first time anything will appear at Tynecastle which causes me nothing but offence will be on 11 August.

 

Why will you be offended on August 11th when Celtic come to town? Why would I or anyone else be offended by an Armed Forces day at Tynecastle? Offended is the wrong word here.

[Maroon Sailor]

6 minutes ago, Central Belt 1874 said:

 

Despite what Budge says, they have no relevance to our club and I don’t see how they are going to help us grow as a club, because that’s all I’m interested in. Did Budge get the Armed Forces in to her companies for appreciation days before she made her millions? I don’t think 

 

Sport is big with the Armed Forces. I've seen clubs send their players to train with the bootnecks and paras to get their fitness levels up.

 

Most people in the Armed forces are in to football.

 

The Yank sports are big with their military personnel.

 

Can't see what harm it's doing to the reputation of a Scottish football Institution like Heart of Midlothian.

 

Proud of Hearts, Proud of our Armed Forces.

 

Plymouth Argyle and Portsmouth have armed forces days. Their fans get onboard with it.

 

[kila]

Aside from a big gun where the pizza truck usually is, it wasn't that much of a fuss. I was expecting a marching band and a more visible precence around the inside of the ground. It was a clear PR recruitment drive on the plaza but it was just there if you were interested rather than in your face.

 

 

[davemclaren]

8 minutes ago, kila said:

Aside from a big gun where the pizza truck usually is, it wasn't that much of a fuss. I was expecting a marching band and a more visible precence around the inside of the ground. It was a clear PR recruitment drive on the plaza but it was just there if you were interested rather than in your face.

 

 

Defence cutbacks. 

[jamboveg]

11 minutes ago, kila said:

Aside from a big gun where the pizza truck usually is, it wasn't that much of a fuss. I was expecting a marching band and a more visible precence around the inside of the ground. It was a clear PR recruitment drive on the plaza but it was just there if you were interested rather than in your face.

 

 

I think due to the weather as well i didnt help them put on more of a show. 

 

Am pleased the club has taken this step to recognise the Armed Forces. I would also like them to have an emergency services day aswell. 

 

Well done HMFC 

[maroonlegions]

41 minutes ago, Central Belt 1874 said:

 

Despite what Budge says, they have no relevance to our club and I don’t see how they are going to help us grow as a club, because that’s all I’m interested in. Did Budge get the Armed Forces in to her companies for appreciation days before she made her millions? I don’t think so.

 

 

 

Why will you be offended on August 11th when Celtic come to town? Why would I or anyone else be offended by an Armed Forces day at Tynecastle? Offended is the wrong word here.

 

 

 

 

[Central Belt 1874]

1 minute ago, maroonlegions said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  You have nothing to add I see. 

[August Landmesser]

13 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

I’m genuinely interested if anyone who is anti this has contacted the club to express their concerns. So anyone contacted club? What was the clubs response?

 

If genuinely concerned about it, would seem most effective course of action.

 

Unless you feel writing 100 post on jkb on subject would be more effective in addressing your concerns. If you do I suggest your taking the wrong tact or don’t really give a **** about the subject.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wrote a letter to Ann Budge respectfully explaining my unease etc. It would have been delivered on Saturday. No response yet, but it's still early.

[Maroon Sailor]

35 minutes ago, August Landmesser said:

I wrote a letter to Ann Budge respectfully explaining my unease etc. It would have been delivered on Saturday. No response yet, but it's still early.

 

Stand Easy.

 

 

 

 

[Beast Boy]

Used to have them at Balerno Gala day when I was a kid. RAF stickers of Tornados and Jaguars etc. Sometimes parachute drops and the likes. Liked looking at the stuff but never felt the need to sign up when I was sixteen. I can see where people are coming from by objecting to it, but it doesn’t really bother me that much. If anything some of these young guys who can’t behave properly might even benefit from the discipline involved if they did sign up?

 

I have nothing against our servicemen and women. The politicians who decide their fates? Massive problems with them.

[Boab]

1 hour ago, August Landmesser said:

I wrote a letter to Ann Budge respectfully explaining my unease etc. It would have been delivered on Saturday. No response yet, but it's still early.

 

Keep us updated.

[Maroon Sailor]

17 minutes ago, Bez said:

Used to have them at Balerno Gala day when I was a kid. RAF stickers of Tornados and Jaguars etc. Sometimes parachute drops and the likes. Liked looking at the stuff but never felt the need to sign up when I was sixteen. I can see where people are coming from by objecting to it, but it doesn’t really bother me that much. If anything some of these young guys who can’t behave properly might even benefit from the discipline involved if they did sign up?

 

I have nothing against our servicemen and women. The politicians who decide their fates? Massive problems with them.

 

I think most people are the same. It's seen as a display rather than a recruitment tool. The Navy have Navy days where ships are open to visitors and have various displays on show. Weapons, Firefighting etc .... Lots of novelty gifts for the kids, pictures sitting on the 30mm etc (those most of these are automated now)

 

If you are going to join the forces most of the time you are already influenced by family members having served and peers who have joined up.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2018 by Maroon Sailor

[Taffin]

I'm surprised at the number of Team America types in here. 

 

"Freedom isn't free" and the like.

 

Glad the day passed well, wouldn't have been my preference but not strongly anti it either.

[The Real Maroonblood]

13 hours ago, Central Belt 1874 said:

 

So what did Heart Of Midlothian FC gain in a positive way today from having them here? What advantage has it given our club over our rivals?

 

 

 

 

They beat ICT 5-0.

[Maroon Sailor]

6 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

They beat ICT 5-0.

 

I said may the Forces be with us earlier in the thread.

 

They can come back anytime if it means getting results like that

 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2018 by Maroon Sailor

[Beast Boy]

1 hour ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

I think most people are the same. It's seen as a display rather than a recruitment tool. The Navy have Navy days where ships are open to visitors and have various displays on show. Weapons, Firefighting etc .... Lots of novelty gifts for the kids, pictures sitting on the 30mm etc (those most of these are automated now)

 

If you are going to join the forces most of the time you are already influenced by family members having served and peers who have joined up.

 

 

 

Yeah, I expect so. I have lots of issues with the political motives behind recent conflicts, but the service people themselves should be properly looked after. 

[Sir Vladimir of Romanov]

2 hours ago, August Landmesser said:

I wrote a letter to Ann Budge respectfully explaining my unease etc. It would have been delivered on Saturday. No response yet, but it's still early.

 

Did you include a picture of yourself in your mums basement with your tinfoil hat on? 

[Don Dan]

As I state previously I was happy this went ahead. I was even surprised to see part of my old regiment there with the 105mm light gun. My nephew is currently in Iraq as a Medic, he has been in Kenya helping local villages with medical care and immunisations and when he leaves his goal is to be a paramedic. He loves it and is well aware of the dangers being in the armed service. 

People are against it as is their right but as far I could see the vast majority welcomed the services on Sunday. 

[August Landmesser]

3 minutes ago, Sir Vladimir of Romanov said:

 

Did you include a picture of yourself in your mums basement with your tinfoil hat on? 

No. That would be a weird thing to do.

 

Sick burn btw, ouch.

[Sir Vladimir of Romanov]

4 minutes ago, August Landmesser said:

No. That would be a weird thing to do.

 

Sick burn btw, ouch.

 

'sick burn' 

 

2005 patter? 

 

I bet Ann is giving your letter serious consideration and definitely isn't pissing herself laughing at you and your crusade. 

 

Fight on brother. 

[highlandjambo3]

Every organisation has the right to advertise what it has to offer as a career to anyone who may be interested, the armed forces are no different in that respect.  I know the main issue here is not really about rights or wrongs of having an armed forces day, its more about the timing and location but, the poll speaks for itself.  

 

In the past our forces have struggled to communicate and reach out properly to society to generate interest in joining up, there we’re cheesy adverts showing some guy on a ski slope (can’t remember his name) but, the advert was misleading and gave the indication that being in the Army was a breeze.  We also had the dark days of Northern Ireland which pretty much drove the armed forces underground when at home, camps screened off with armed guards at the gate, restrictions on wearing uniforms in public places.  With the Cold War our equipment and it’s performance was sensitive and rarely seen in public If you didn’t know anyone in the forces you pretty much had little information on what it was all about.  Look at the adverts now, a massive change.  

 

Our forces don’t have a problem recruiting, they do have a problem with retention so, the best advert to get the message out there are service personnel of lower ranks talking to people and answering questions on what it’s really like.

[highlandjambo3]

28 minutes ago, Sir Vladimir of Romanov said:

 

Did you include a picture of yourself in your mums basement with your tinfoil hat on? 

 

Haha 

[Elmore]

52 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Every organisation has the right to advertise what it has to offer as a career to anyone who may be interested, the armed forces are no different in that respect.  I know the main issue here is not really about rights or wrongs of having an armed forces day, its more about the timing and location but, the poll speaks for itself.  

 

In the past our forces have struggled to communicate and reach out properly to society to generate interest in joining up, there we’re cheesy adverts showing some guy on a ski slope (can’t remember his name) but, the advert was misleading and gave the indication that being in the Army was a breeze.  We also had the dark days of Northern Ireland which pretty much drove the armed forces underground when at home, camps screened off with armed guards at the gate, restrictions on wearing uniforms in public places.  With the Cold War our equipment and it’s performance was sensitive and rarely seen in public If you didn’t know anyone in the forces you pretty much had little information on what it was all about.  Look at the adverts now, a massive change.  

 

Our forces don’t have a problem recruiting, they do have a problem with retention so, the best advert to get the message out there are service personnel of lower ranks talking to people and answering questions on what it’s really like.

If the armed forces don't have a problem recruiting only retention, that means they are struggling for personnel because people are leaving because they didn't think it would be what they thought it was. If recruitment isn't a problem, why do it at a sporting event?  Why are they having trouble retaining people?   The army skiing guy was called Frank. 

[Shanks]

Glad it pished down.

[Governor Tarkin]

16 hours ago, Central Belt 1874 said:

 

Why will you be offended on August 11th when Celtic come to town?

 

Because the are an odious bunch of ****** ****** ***** shitehawks.

 

 

And I'm a bigot.

[highlandjambo3]

26 minutes ago, Elmore said:

If the armed forces don't have a problem recruiting only retention, that means they are struggling for personnel because people are leaving because they didn't think it would be what they thought it was. If recruitment isn't a problem, why do it at a sporting event?  Why are they having trouble retaining people?   The army skiing guy was called Frank. 

 

 

You are correct, if you read my last paragraph again you will see I have mentioned much the same as you, i.e “people are leaving because they didn’t think it would be what they thought it was”.  If retention was better, there would be less need to recruit.

 

So what did they think it was?

 

There has always been conflicting interests with recruitment and training a recruit.  The recruiters didn’t train the individual but, they do select suitable candidates by means of various tests (dependant on what you joined).  These tests are ever developing and start quite a while before the first day of basic training begins (should the trainee be successful), it’s an expensive business, it is estimated that each recruit will cost around £5k before they have even turned up for their first days training.

 

As with every organisation there are targets to meet, how many recruited over a 12 month period V’s how many successfully finished training.  If the targets are poor Trainers blaming recruiters for sending duds, recruiters blaming trainers for poor standards in training etc....

 

I spent 25 years in the Army and was involved in the training of recruits.  A very clear scenario would repeat its self every time a new group of recruits arrived for the start of the training they had been selected for, 3 or 4 recruits crying to go home after only 1 night away so, what did they think it was?

 

I did a stint of HR work in my unit and, over a period of 12 months de discharged 96 people and received 95 newly trained soldiers.  Of the 96 discharged 75 were soldiers opting to get out before completing their first contract.

 

As I said, retention is the driving factor for recruitment.

 

 

[DavieXXV]

9 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Having served over 26yrs in the British Army and 6yrs as a NATO Civilian based in Afghanistan I believe it is absolutely key that we support our troops wherever and whenever we can. Whether it be at a sporting venue, music festival what does it matter. Being a member of the Armed Forces takes a great deal of effort and pride which not everyone has the minerals to commit to. Where better to advertise and get the publicity that they require than a highly charged sporting venue which has many young aspiring individuals who only want one thing in life.......to win, to be champions, to put up a great fight. All that the Armed Forces require in a worthwhile candidate. 

Retention issues is exactly as mentioned in the previous post.....only after a certain amount of time some individuals are either not up to the mark, or want something else in life......the important thing to take away in many cases......at least they tried.

A great effort by HMFC and must only get stronger and better with carefully selected match days to glean as much vocal support for those that plan to serve, already have done or have made the ultimate sacrifice. Well done Hearts!! 

 

9 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

 

You are correct, if you read my last paragraph again you will see I have mentioned much the same as you, i.e “people are leaving because they didn’t think it would be what they thought it was”.  If retention was better, there would be less need to recruit.

 

So what did they think it was?

 

There has always been conflicting interests with recruitment and training a recruit.  The recruiters didn’t train the individual but, they do select suitable candidates by means of various tests (dependant on what you joined).  These tests are ever developing and start quite a while before the first day of basic training begins (should the trainee be successful), it’s an expensive business, it is estimated that each recruit will cost around £5k before they have even turned up for their first days training.

 

As with every organisation there are targets to meet, how many recruited over a 12 month period V’s how many successfully finished training.  If the targets are poor Trainers blaming recruiters for sending duds, recruiters blaming trainers for poor standards in training etc....

 

I spent 25 years in the Army and was involved in the training of recruits.  A very clear scenario would repeat its self every time a new group of recruits arrived for the start of the training they had been selected for, 3 or 4 recruits crying to go home after only 1 night away so, what did they think it was?

 

I did a stint of HR work in my unit and, over a period of 12 months de discharged 96 people and received 95 newly trained soldiers.  Of the 96 discharged 75 were soldiers opting to get out before completing their first contract.

 

As I said, retention is the driving factor for recruitment.