Hearts fielded ineligible player against Cove Rangers

[graygo]

2 hours ago, Morgan said:

Your inbox is still not receiving messages.

I've got a feeling my subscription might have lapsed as I was kicked off the site during the game the other day, flying home tonight so will sort it tomorrow.

[Raymond Reddington]

3 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

Going forward there should be a reasonably simple solution in this day and age. Here on JKB everyone can see the status of each  persons membership level. Further if your banned, suspended on restricted then that is obvious as well, at least to the user. A live data base of all registered players would be available and notification would be sent out when the players registration expires. Prior to every game the club or SFA official would upload the team sheet which then flag up any player not eligible to play that game. It’s really not rocket science and I suspect not that expensive to set up. Most people and businesses  these days have internet access which can be accessed from there mobile or tablet or access can be via the club internet. So imo there’s absolutely no excuse for this not to be implemented. Failing that each club can have their own data base however you’d need to rely on the inputs and updates being correct. 

 

Yeah im with you on this. I find it backwards that the SFA check this after the match. Surely the 4th offical or the ref could check this before the match. Even if it ment they got the team sheets 1 and a half hours before kickoff.

[Taffin]

1 hour ago, Juanjo15 said:

 

It didn't at all.  I think it's impossible for 3 teams to get 9 points.

 

 

Peterborough went out with 9 points.

 

If we win our group with 9 then obviously we will go through; if we don't, we run the risk of going out.

[Nookie Bear]

5 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

Going forward there should be a reasonably simple solution in this day and age. Here on JKB everyone can see the status of each  persons membership level. Further if your banned, suspended on restricted then that is obvious as well, at least to the user. A live data base of all registered players would be available and notification would be sent out when the players registration expires. Prior to every game the club or SFA official would upload the team sheet which then flag up any player not eligible to play that game. It’s really not rocket science and I suspect not that expensive to set up. Most people and businesses  these days have internet access which can be accessed from there mobile or tablet or access can be via the club internet. So imo there’s absolutely no excuse for this not to be implemented. Failing that each club can have their own data base however you’d need to rely on the inputs and updates being correct. 

 

Whilst the onus will always be on the clubs to make suretheir registration details are up to date, it does seem quite simple to have some sort of system in place like you outline above.

 

Maybe there already is something in place to alert clubs, and it just wasn't picked up. What happens if a club picks a player who is suspended? Is it flagged up prior to kick off, or does it just get ignored until someone realises the error after the match?

[The Treasurer]

40 minutes ago, Gambo said:

A punishment can't be based on who the team is and what it would mean in that competition. 

 

It has to be team A failed to register a player they played in Competion X, the punishment is Y.

That way if it happens again they can administer the same punishment.

The authorities don't want to have "set in stone" procedures regarding punishments for rule breaking.

They prefer the "make it up as you go along" approach so that if either of the OF were to break the same rule they can let them off with a warning and get round it by saying each case is dealt with depending on circumstances

[graygo]

13 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

Peterborough went out with 9 points.

 

If we win our group with 9 then obviously we will go through; if we don't, we run the risk of going out.

Shouldn't have been in it in the first place, Bloody English coming up here and stealing our cup places.

[Haken]

2 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

In the first instance it is HMFC's fault. End of story. However I have to think in this day and age with the technology available why can the referees not be sent (pre-game) an up to date list of the registered players of both squads involved in the game. Thereby allowing him to check off the names on the team sheets and alert clubs if a name appears that shouldn't. 

The cynic in me would say it's because it would remove a potential income stream for the beaks.

[Escobar PHM]

In a fair world all that needed to happen here, in the case of an obvious admin error, was that the SPFL phoned Hearts yesterday and urged us to update Irving's status as a player.

This is nothing more than a clerical error. No cheating. No deception. No unfair advantage gained or attempted. No team beaten that wouldn't have been beaten

 

Of course teams have been getting very harsh, some would say Draconian punishments for this sort of thing for years now, so it follows they'll have to apply broadly the same thing to us. Its about time some allowances were made for clear and very minor registration errors in domestic competitions. What a fecking mess and fuss over someone neglecting to complete one wee step of a process.

 

FFS surely a simple system can be put in place where this is flagged up and clubs advised and given a bit of help to keep them on the right side instead of getting hammered. A basic low level programmer could have this done in about 15 minutes.

Edited July 20, 2018 by Escobar PHM

[Morgan]

31 minutes ago, graygo said:

I've got a feeling my subscription might have lapsed as I was kicked off the site during the game the other day, flying home tonight so will sort it tomorrow.

Okay dokey.  Will try again tomorrow.  

 

Maybe you could let me know when you're sorted?

[HMFC86]

Obsessed much ?

[John Findlay]

I slept like a log last night.

[Taffin]

35 minutes ago, graygo said:

Shouldn't have been in it in the first place, Bloody English coming up here and stealing our cup places.

 

 

??

 

Ooops!! Spending too much time around Peterborough lately I think.

[12XU]

Danny - rhymes with .....

[wavydavy]

4 minutes ago, HMFC86 said:

Obsessed much ?

 

It must be great being a supporter of the greatest club in the world with the greatest fans, players, coaches etc that never make a single mistake.

 

Lawell and his pals make sure that nothing ever gets out to tarnish their reputation.

[sadj]

50 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

In a fair world all that needed to happen here, in the case of an obvious admin error, was that the SPFL phoned Hearts yesterday and urged us to update Irving's status as a player.

This is nothing more than a clerical error. No cheating. No deception. No unfair advantage gained or attempted. No team beaten that wouldn't have been beaten

 

Of course teams have been getting very harsh, some would say Draconian punishments for this sort of thing for years now, so it follows they'll have to apply broadly the same thing to us. Its about time some allowances were made for clear and very minor registration errors in domestic competitions. What a fecking mess and fuss over someone neglecting to complete one wee step of a process.

 

FFS surely a simple system can be put in place where this is flagged up and clubs advised and given a bit of help to keep them on the right side instead of getting hammered. A basic low level programmer could have this done in about 15 minutes.

Now my favourite Colombian that is a post i agree entirely with ??

[sairyinthat]

3 hours ago, OmiyaHearts said:

I don't think Petrie will have an influence as its not an SFA matter. It's difficult situation though - I'm not sure what the appropriate outcome should be.

If we are in the situation where the authorities can't be relied to pass unbiased responses to any alleged breach of rules by our club then simply bypass them and go direct to the courts.

[HMFC86]

24 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

It must be great being a supporter of the greatest club in the world with the greatest fans, players, coaches etc that never make a single mistake.

 

Lawell and his pals make sure that nothing ever gets out to tarnish their reputation.

We’ve clearly made a bit off an arse off it, but any Hearts story at all and Sellick & Hibs fans are the first to comment, always implying a superior moral high ground. 

 

Weird folk.

[Deevers]

4 hours ago, Escobar PHM said:

You think they'll go down the 'big teams should be able to break the rules and not get the same punishment' route for us ?

I don't think the sponsors will give a toss about us being there as long as Celtic and Rangers are in it to the late stages, which is almost assured from the start.

I don't think anyone should be able to break the rules. This is Scotland though and the rules here are fluid, especially when it comes to either of the Ugly Sisters. What I am alluding to is the possibility that our punishment will be either a straight points deduction and a fine, or possibly even just a fine. !I have a gut feeling that it will be the former. We'll all find out on Tuesday. Either of these options to my mind would be fair in the circumstances and still allow us to play meaningful games in the competition. 

[Juanjo15]

If it's only a fine then would that not just open it up for any club to play any players unregistered and take the fine? 

[wavydavy]

4 minutes ago, Juanjo15 said:

If it's only a fine then would that not just open it up for any club to play any players unregistered and take the fine? 

 

How many clubs have players that are not fully registered and would play them? Let's face it no club deliberately plays a player they know to be ineligible to play so these are isolated cases.

 

If on the other hand this started becoming more frequent then I would tend to agree with you.

[Back to 2005]

6 minutes ago, Juanjo15 said:

If it's only a fine then would that not just open it up for any club to play any players unregistered and take the fine? 

Yes but the difference is that Irving is under contract to us. What advantage would it be for a club not to register a player under contract? 

[RENE]

It's not that he wasn't a signed player, it's just an administrative error and his name wasn't on the SFA website. So surely a fine would be an appropriate punishment.

[Harry Potter]

9 hours ago, jamboozy said:

Just thought of very bad guitar playing and out of sinc soundtracks on certain videos, erm, as I was told there was on such, ah, erm videos.

I liked her 

[i8hibsh]

56 minutes ago, HMFC86 said:

Obsessed much ?

 

 

My name is Danny from Ireland. I support a football team for no other reason that they are catholic.  Oh and the fact that they win every week.  I probably do not know what life was like before Sky.  I have never seen a house being built with a chimney and I can't even spell analogue or mono let alone know what they were.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Elmore]

51 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

It must be great being a supporter of the greatest club in the world with the greatest fans, players, coaches etc that never make a single mistake.

 

Lawell and his pals make sure that nothing ever gets out to tarnish their reputation.

They are the cutest club in the world!  

[wavydavy]

1 minute ago, Elmore said:

They are the cutest club in the world!  

 

When you say cutest are you meaning along the lines of say a "puppy". If so I would agree with you because they would piss all over you as quick as look at you.

[Jambof3tornado]

1 hour ago, graygo said:

I've got a feeling my subscription might have lapsed as I was kicked off the site during the game the other day, flying home tonight so will sort it tomorrow.

Enough with the no registered jokes

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Only kidding.

[luckydug]

1 hour ago, The Treasurer said:

The authorities don't want to have "set in stone" procedures regarding punishments for rule breaking.

They prefer the "make it up as you go along" approach so that if either of the OF were to break the same rule they can let them off with a warning and get round it by saying each case is dealt with depending on circumstances

In a nutshell Mr Treasurer.

Can be the only explanation for no hard and fast rule in place.

 

[Elmore]

1 minute ago, wavydavy said:

 

When you say cutest are you meaning along the lines of say a "puppy". If so I would agree with you because they would piss all over you as quick as look at you.

And then look at you with those big, cute innocent eyes!  That club and their fans have been at it for years. 'They're folk songs!' Folk off!  

[Elmore]

2 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Enough with the no registered jokes

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Only kidding.

It was a bit insensitive. 

[JamboJen]

1 hour ago, Escobar PHM said:

In a fair world all that needed to happen here, in the case of an obvious admin error, was that the SPFL phoned Hearts yesterday and urged us to update Irving's status as a player.

This is nothing more than a clerical error. No cheating. No deception. No unfair advantage gained or attempted. No team beaten that wouldn't have been beaten

 

Of course teams have been getting very harsh, some would say Draconian punishments for this sort of thing for years now, so it follows they'll have to apply broadly the same thing to us. Its about time some allowances were made for clear and very minor registration errors in domestic competitions. What a fecking mess and fuss over someone neglecting to complete one wee step of a process.

 

FFS surely a simple system can be put in place where this is flagged up and clubs advised and given a bit of help to keep them on the right side instead of getting hammered. A basic low level programmer could have this done in about 15 minutes.

Good, logical post. The logic, however, may be where it fails at the SFA/SPFL's doors.

[Deevers]

21 minutes ago, Juanjo15 said:

If it's only a fine then would that not just open it up for any club to play any players unregistered and take the fine? 

In our case all the paperwork HAD been completed correctly. The error had been not updating the SFA site. Hardly a deliberate attempt at circumventing the system.

[...a bit disco]

1 hour ago, Escobar PHM said:

In a fair world all that needed to happen here, in the case of an obvious admin error, was that the SPFL phoned Hearts yesterday and urged us to update Irving's status as a player.

This is nothing more than a clerical error. No cheating. No deception. No unfair advantage gained or attempted. No team beaten that wouldn't have been beaten

 

Of course teams have been getting very harsh, some would say Draconian punishments for this sort of thing for years now, so it follows they'll have to apply broadly the same thing to us. Its about time some allowances were made for clear and very minor registration errors in domestic competitions. What a fecking mess and fuss over someone neglecting to complete one wee step of a process.

 

FFS surely a simple system can be put in place where this is flagged up and clubs advised and given a bit of help to keep them on the right side instead of getting hammered. A basic low level programmer could have this done in about 15 minutes.

 

Nice post E.

 

Let's face it, if Football Manager can do it, it should be a piece of (Basic) piss.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Escobar PHM said:

In a fair world all that needed to happen here, in the case of an obvious admin error, was that the SPFL phoned Hearts yesterday and urged us to update Irving's status as a player.

This is nothing more than a clerical error. No cheating. No deception. No unfair advantage gained or attempted. No team beaten that wouldn't have been beaten

 

Of course teams have been getting very harsh, some would say Draconian punishments for this sort of thing for years now, so it follows they'll have to apply broadly the same thing to us. Its about time some allowances were made for clear and very minor registration errors in domestic competitions. What a fecking mess and fuss over someone neglecting to complete one wee step of a process.

 

FFS surely a simple system can be put in place where this is flagged up and clubs advised and given a bit of help to keep them on the right side instead of getting hammered. A basic low level programmer could have this done in about 15 minutes.

 

I get your drift, makes sense. 

 

I don't agree tho. 

 

If you go that way you are saying it's the players ability that makes a difference or the nature of the game in question. 

 

Ie, same scenerio, but the unregistered player scores a hatrick. 

 

Imo, its the due diligence error that needs punished not the impact of that error.

Shite player, shite team- just move on. 

Messi unregistered but scores a hatrick and win games - different punishment. 

 

I think that goes back to "one law for the rich, one for the poor", but in this case reversed!

 

There should be a standard punishment, but imo should be the same no matter if Highland league or ucl, Messi or Messy. 

 

 

Also agree with the It stuff about it should be easy to get a system that flags up such issues. 

 

Still a total walloper from us tho, and if we get a 3-0 defeat or points removed, so be it. 

 

[DH1986]

3 hours ago, Escobar PHM said:

Been covered already and no-one admitted to making a mistake that cost their company well in excess of £100k

 

£100k ?

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

43 minutes ago, Juanjo15 said:

If it's only a fine then would that not just open it up for any club to play any players unregistered and take the fine? 

 

Agree, especially rich clubs. 

 

Although you could have an escalating policy

 

Fine

Points deducted from that game

Fine and points deducted 

Etc... 

 

[Juanjo15]

20 minutes ago, Deevers said:

In our case all the paperwork HAD been completed correctly. The error had been not updating the SFA site. Hardly a deliberate attempt at circumventing the system.

 

Im not saying it has been but it would lead to challenges from other clubs who do it then claim similar or just say they are embarrassed and forgot. 

[Juanjo15]

38 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

Yes but the difference is that Irving is under contract to us. What advantage would it be for a club not to register a player under contract? 

 

There was clearly no advantage but it’s still not registering a player that played in a match.  If we do get a fine which I hope so then they will have to clarify that all cases are  circumstantial.  

[Juanjo15]

3 minutes ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

 

Agree, especially rich clubs. 

 

Although you could have an escalating policy

 

Fine

Points deducted from that game

Fine and points deducted 

Etc... 

 

 

True. ?

[Deevers]

11 minutes ago, Juanjo15 said:

 

Im not saying it has been but it would lead to challenges from other clubs who do it then claim similar or just say they are embarrassed and forgot. 

Why would anyone want to do that deliberately? Fill in all the paperwork, send copies to the SFA then deliberately not bother to update the site? Seems an awful lot of stuff to do just to get yourself a punishment when discovered. Or are you actually trying to suggest that we did this deliberately.

[HMFC86]

47 minutes ago, Elmore said:

They are the cutest club in the world!  

Think you’ve misspelled the 4th word.....

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 hours ago, Haken said:

The cynic in me would say it's because it would remove a potential income stream for the beaks.

 

That actually went through my mind as I wrote the post! 

[jamtartan74]

52 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

My name is Danny from Ireland. I support a football team for no other reason that they are catholic.  Oh and the fact that they win every week.  I probably do not know what life was like before Sky.  I have never seen a house being built with a chimney and I can't even spell analogue or mono let alone know what they were.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hello Danny, welcome to jkb 

[Juanjo15]

19 minutes ago, Deevers said:

Why would anyone want to do that deliberately? Fill in all the paperwork, send copies to the SFA then deliberately not bother to update the site? Seems an awful lot of stuff to do just to get yourself a punishment when discovered. Or are you actually trying to suggest that we did this deliberately.

 

Where in the part of my post where I said it wasn’t deliberate that made it sounds like it’s deliberate.  Is part of the hearing panel judgement if it’s deliberate or not?  I don’t think it matters - rules got broken and if it’s a fine instead of an expulsion it leaves the rules open to bend with teams playing unregistered or banned players in the future claiming they forgot. We genuinely did forget but try and prove another club doesn’t. 

[LarrysRightFoot]

39 minutes ago, Juanjo15 said:

 

Im not saying it has been but it would lead to challenges from other clubs who do it then claim similar or just say they are embarrassed and forgot. 

Each case should be judged on its individual circumstances.

[Hearts_fan]

19 hours ago, luckyBatistuta said:

 

Was going to edit my last post, but thought you’d miss this.

 

So if Celtic or Rangers were to beat us, then we found this out and we get no points, just the same as them. You wouldn’t be bothered when we’ve done absolutely nothing wrong.

 

Apologies if this wasn’t aimed at myself, but his post that you commented on was to myself.

 

I definitely don’t think we should get any harsh punishment for this, we didn’t try to cheat. I’m just pointing out that I don’t think we’d be happy getting zero points and no replay if the situation was reversed, as Hf was saying.

 

 

Precisely, I wouldn't be bothered. If it was a genuine administrative error, such as ours, and there was absolutely no sporting advantage to be gained, such as with ours, then any reasonable minded person would conclude that the match result was unaffected by an error made by someone sitting at a computer in an office, months previously. 

 

It's depressing to see Hearts fans stick the knife into Hearts, believing things such as 'heads must roll for this', which I'm pretty sure I read earlier in the thread. 

 

Who needs enemies when you have friends like that? 

 

It was a mistake. We did not act maliciously or deceitfully. 

 

Edited July 20, 2018 by Hearts_fan

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

1 minute ago, Hearts_fan said:

 

Precisely, I wouldn't be bothered. If it was a genuine administrative error, such as ours, and there was absolutely no sporting advantage to be gained, such as with ours, then any reasonable mined person would conclude that the match result was unaffected by an error made by someone sitting at a computer in an office, months previous. 

 

It's depressing to see Hearts fans stick the knife into Hearts, believing things such as 'heads must roll for this', which I'm pretty sure I read earlier in the thread. 

 

Who needs enemies when you have friends like that? 

 

It was a mistake. We did not act maliciously and deceitfully. 

This 

[been here before]

Ahhh hold on a minute. Everyones favourite creepy obsessive loner has another way of looking at it.

 

greenginger 08:48 AM Today 

Maybe fielding the ineligible player was all a cunning Baldrick type plan toget kicked out of the tournament because the new pitch ain’t ready or someone from the council has said they need an occupation certificate before they can open the place for the new season.

Embarrassing themselves to save embarrassment! 

 

Perhaps he's right. If so, well played Mrs B

[Nookie Bear]

2 minutes ago, been here before said:

Ahhh hold on a minute. Everyones favourite creepy obsessive loner has another way of looking at it.

 

greenginger 08:48 AM Today 

Maybe fielding the ineligible player was all a cunning Baldrick type plan toget kicked out of the tournament because the new pitch ain’t ready or someone from the council has said they need an occupation certificate before they can open the place for the new season.

Embarrassing themselves to save embarrassment! 

 

Perhaps he's right. If so, well played Mrs B

 

I’ll guarantee green ginger was one of the dozen hibs fans still in Hampden at 4.45pm on 19th May. 

 

Crying into his scarf, flag snapped in half, staring at the maroon masses in front of him and utterly utterly seething. 

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, been here before said:

Ahhh hold on a minute. Everyones favourite creepy obsessive loner has another way of looking at it.

 

greenginger 08:48 AM Today 

Maybe fielding the ineligible player was all a cunning Baldrick type plan toget kicked out of the tournament because the new pitch ain’t ready or someone from the council has said they need an occupation certificate before they can open the place for the new season.

Embarrassing themselves to save embarrassment! 

 

Perhaps he's right. If so, well played Mrs B

 

There's another 'certificate' for this boy