VAR

[Des' Dad]

Part of the joy of going to a football match is the discussion and arguments that take place after a controversial decision. VAR is supposed to take the argument out of the game. It clearly fails miserably as some of the decisions in the World Cup coming from VAR can still be disputed as they are only a matter of opinion and not a matter of fact. Goal line technology -  yes, because it gives a clear and unambiguous decision but when it comes to offside or not offside, or penalty or not a penalty those remain open to doubt and personal opinion. Anyway, if it can't be applied at all levels of the game, or at least all senior levels, it should not be used. Clearly, VAR and goal-line technology cannot be applied at all levels because of the expense involved. Stop messing with this great game and let the referees get on with it.

[davemclaren]

Just now, Des' Dad said:

Part of the joy of going to a football match is the discussion and arguments that take place after a controversial decision. VAR is supposed to take the argument out of the game. It clearly fails miserably as some of the decisions in the World Cup coming from VAR can still be disputed as they are only a matter of opinion and not a matter of fact. Goal line technology -  yes, because it gives a clear and unambiguous decision but when it comes to offside or not offside, or penalty or not a penalty those remain open to doubt and personal opinion. Anyway, if it can't be applied at all levels of the game, or at least all senior levels, it should not be used. Clearly, VAR and goal-line technology cannot be applied at all levels because of the expense involved. Stop messing with this great game and let the referees get on with it.

I agree. 

[Maroon Sailor]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

Ultimately we will be able to do away with Referees and Linesman and just leave all decisions and the running of the game to the technology. I give it 10 years before we have that sort of technology. 

 

The trouble with technology is where to draw the line. We could be going down a black hole with this and the game could be lost as a spectacle.

 

Goal line technology is great and the best thing to happen in the game for a long time, but not every decision on the field of play should have technology to assist and that's where we are heading I feel.

 

VAR is opening up a can of worms.

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

The trouble with technology is where to draw the line. We could be going down a black hole with this and the game could be lost as a spectacle.

 

Goal line technology is great and the best thing to happen in the game for a long time, but not every decision on the field of play should have technology to assist and that's where we are heading I feel.

 

VAR is opening up a can of worms.

Shouts of ‘Get new specs ref’ replaced by ‘get a bigger cpu ref’. ?

[John Findlay]

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Shouts of ‘Get new specs ref’ replaced by ‘get a bigger cpu ref’. ?

Just doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

The cpu you is illegitimate it does not have a birth certificate, you're a bassa cpu. Doesn't work either. 

[JackLadd]

I like VAR a lot. Hope it's brought in here soon for every prem game. Make dodgy line calls and pens a thing off the past.

Edited June 24, 2018 by JackLadd

[Phil Dunphy]

Folk who think VAR would stop shitehawks like Willie Collum from ****ing us over are delirious.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Phil Dunphy

[Gambo]

16 hours ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

The system is great. 

 

The method needs adjusted. 

 

Challenges, like tennis is the way to go, also takes the accountability of when it is used away from the ref and on to the team challenging. 

If they **** it, no debate. 

Actually adds another dimension to football of when to use them and not waste them. 

 

Quite simple really. 

 

 

'Challenges' solve nothing.

 

 

[Adam_the_legend]

44 minutes ago, Dino Velvet said:

 

I imagine it would have a detrimental effect on attendances. 

 

You really think people would not go to go to a game because they can’t see the VAR replays in the stadium?? Pretty much every game I go to I think, I wish I could see a replay of that, it doesn’t stop me going to, and enjoying, a live game. 

 

25 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

The trouble with technology is where to draw the line. We could be going down a black hole with this and the game could be lost as a spectacle.

 

Goal line technology is great and the best thing to happen in the game for a long time, but not every decision on the field of play should have technology to assist and that's where we are heading I feel.

 

VAR is opening up a can of worms.

 

Its not a one way street though. If VAR has a clear negative impact on supporters enjoyment of football it can be removed or replaced with something different. Personally, I’d like to see it used with a limited number of challenges for each team, like Hawkeye in tennis. That would add a level of strategy to it, do you use up one of your challenges now or keep it for later in the game...etc

[Ray Gin]

1 hour ago, Des' Dad said:

Part of the joy of going to a football match is the discussion and arguments that take place after a controversial decision. VAR is supposed to take the argument out of the game. It clearly fails miserably as some of the decisions in the World Cup coming from VAR can still be disputed as they are only a matter of opinion and not a matter of fact. Goal line technology -  yes, because it gives a clear and unambiguous decision but when it comes to offside or not offside, or penalty or not a penalty those remain open to doubt and personal opinion. Anyway, if it can't be applied at all levels of the game, or at least all senior levels, it should not be used. Clearly, VAR and goal-line technology cannot be applied at all levels because of the expense involved. Stop messing with this great game and let the referees get on with it.

 

Disagree. Poor/wrong decisions don't enhance my enjoyment of the game.

[I P Knightley]

1 hour ago, Dino Velvet said:

 

I imagine it would have a detrimental effect on attendances. 

I doubt it. Folk are already going to grounds with no screens. You're suggesting that they would stop if they couldn't see a CAR decision when they already can't see replays etc? 

I've been at a couple of rugby matches where the TMO had been used but we don't have a screen to see what he sees. A couple of yellow card outcomes and a couple of tries awarded or not.  The ref signals what he's decided and the game goes on. Some in the crowd are still baffled; others say they'll have a look on tv when they get home. It adds to the chat and doesn't spoil the game or reduce attendance. 

55 minutes ago, Des' Dad said:

 Stop messing with this great game and let the referees get on with it.

That would be correct if we had a game where refs could get on with it without constant haranguing and criticism. 

True,  VAR is not working out perfectly but I think it's done more good than harm this WC.

Its disappointing that after the England game, VAR officials weren't urged to look more carefully at defending of corners - the Serbia (lack of) decision was poor. The shove to the back of the Swede was also poor. I've not watched all the games to see if there are others but I'll take those two poor outcomes in return for Neymar being brought to book for his dive

[hughesie27]

1 hour ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I think you missed the point. I'm referring to stadiums without screens.

I'm basically saying that I don't see why a big screen being there or not matters. Fans inside don't need to see the VAR footage. 

[hughesie27]

41 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said:

 

You really think people would not go to go to a game because they can’t see the VAR replays in the stadium?? Pretty much every game I go to I think, I wish I could see a replay of that, it doesn’t stop me going to, and enjoying, a live game. 

 

I'd be interested to see if there is an correlation between age/opinion on VAR. Someone should make a poll.

 

The argument that less fans will attend because of VAR is utterly bizarre.

 

What about the 80% of games we play that aren't shown on TV?

 

That said, we are about 10 years away from VAR/Goal Line technology being implemented in Scotland. 

I'd be surprised is GLT is even possible in most stadiums in Scotland. does it not require camera high up above the pitch which is easy in big stadiums in England but not at places like ICT where they barely have 4 stands.

 

Dave reckons we are headed to a future without a ref on the pitch. Sensationalism. 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by hughesie27

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Gambo said:

'Challenges' solve nothing.

 

 

 

It does. 

 

Puts the onus of when to use var onto the teams. 

 

Means you can't moan about it not being used for a particular incident, as it is your call to use it or not. 

 

Solves that issue 100%

[benny]

It would be great up here.

The old firm would be the first to suffer.

[Gambo]

21 minutes ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

 

It does. 

 

Puts the onus of when to use var onto the teams. 

 

Means you can't moan about it not being used for a particular incident, as it is your call to use it or not. 

 

Solves that issue 100%

So mistakes by officials will still be made?

[Phil Dunphy]

1 hour ago, I P Knightley said:

That would be correct if we had a game where refs could get on with it without constant haranguing and criticism. 

 

 

So do you think the criticism levelled at referees like John Beaton or Bobby Madden is unjustified?

[hughesie27]

45 minutes ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

 

It does. 

 

Puts the onus of when to use var onto the teams. 

 

Means you can't moan about it not being used for a particular incident, as it is your call to use it or not. 

 

Solves that issue 100%

VAR is used at every incident though. It just comes down to if they think the ref should have a 2nd look or not.

Are you suggesting we should do away with the guy sitting in the VAR room and just let teams decide when they want to ref to go check his wee monitor?

[Bazzas right boot]

2 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

VAR is used at every incident though. It just comes down to if they think the ref should have a 2nd look or not.

Are you suggesting we should do away with the guy sitting in the VAR room and just let teams decide when they want to ref to go check his wee monitor?

 

Same as tennis and I think  someone said hockey. 

 

Can't be more clearer on that. 

[I P Knightley]

16 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

 

So do you think the criticism levelled at referees like John Beaton or Bobby Madden is unjustified?

No - some are more incompetent than others and I'd hope that VAR would highlight those who get it wrong more often and rectify their 'errors' in play. 

[Bazzas right boot]

31 minutes ago, Gambo said:

So mistakes by officials will still be made?

 

Yes, but down by, I would guess by a massive % on what currently happens without it. 

[colinmaroon]

19 hours ago, viva hate said:

VAR is beginning to annoy me! All the decisions I've seen so far after VAR have been correct but there have been many instances when VAR should have been used to overturn a decision or award a penalty and it hasn't been used. 

 

The thing that annoys me the most is when a goal has been scored, the fans celebrate and then you have to wait to see if it was actually a goal. Takes the enjoyment out of celebrating. 

 

 

That's like saying I don't like truth because of lies!

[Phil Dunphy]

13 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

No - some are more incompetent than others and I'd hope that VAR would highlight those who get it wrong more often and rectify their 'errors' in play. 

 

There's more chance of Willie Collum giving us a last minute penalty at Parkhead than there is of VAR making a difference up here.

 

Who are they going to? John Beaton? Because that would make me feel more at ease.

 

[Phil Dunphy]

14 minutes ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

 

Yes, but down by, I would guess by a massive % on what currently happens without it. 

 

The whole point is they're trying to make football perfect.

 

If that can't be achieved 100% by VAR then it's an unnecessary annoyance.

[hughesie27]

22 minutes ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

 

Same as tennis and I think  someone said hockey. 

 

Can't be more clearer on that. 

I understand how a Challenge works.

That's not what I was asking. How would you implement it? It would need a total revamp of the current process where they have an additional ref miles away from the stadium. There would be no need for him/her if you introduce a challenge system.

 

[Cade]

Does it waste more time than players surrounding a ref? Not really.

 

Does it get it right more often than refs do without it? Yes.

 

VAR is working just fine.

[Bazzas right boot]

8 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

I understand how a Challenge works.

That's not what I was asking. How would you implement it? It would need a total revamp of the current process where they have an additional ref miles away from the stadium. There would be no need for him/her if you introduce a challenge system.

 

 

Well you could use it the same way as they do atm or like they do in rugby. 

 

Semantics really. 

 

The important point being it is initiated by the team, not the officials. 

[Bazzas right boot]

11 minutes ago, Cade said:

Does it waste more time than players surrounding a ref? Not really.

 

Does it get it right more often than refs do without it? Yes.

 

VAR is working just fine.

 

 

Aye. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

7 minutes ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

 

Well you could use it the same way as they do atm or like they do in rugby. 

 

Semantics really. 

 

The important point being it is initiated by the team, not the officials. 

Teams don't initiate it in rugby.

[Bazzas right boot]

44 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

The whole point is they're trying to make football perfect.

 

If that can't be achieved 100% by VAR then it's an unnecessary annoyance.

 

Nothing is perfect, improving a sport in any way has my vote. 

 

Most sports have some type of technology involved now at the highest level. 

 

Keeping a sport the same for 130 years is daft, VAR is a long overdue improvement. It will be tweaked going forward, imo the challenge system is the way to go. 

[Bazzas right boot]

20 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Teams don't initiate it in rugby.

 

I know. 

I think they should in football. 

 

Rugby is more stop start, my response was to the var system, in rugby it's a guy watching it in the stand, not in a control room.  That could be done in football. 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by WeeChuck'sHeed

[Phil Dunphy]

Just now, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

 

Nothing is perfect, improving a sport in any way has my vote. 

 

Most sports have some type of technology involved now at the highest level. 

 

Keeping a sport the same for 130 years is daft, VAR is a long overdue improvement. It will be tweaked going forward, imo the challenge system is the way to go. 

 

I’m not opposed to technology, I welcomed the introduction of goal line technology. 

 

But VAR isn’t the right move. It’ll kill the passion in the stands as fans wait to find out whether or not a goal has been scored. 

 

Look at rugby. They have this technology and their fans don’t show anywhere near the passion at a try as a football fan at a goal. 

[Bazzas right boot]

4 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

I’m not opposed to technology, I welcomed the introduction of goal line technology. 

 

But VAR isn’t the right move. It’ll kill the passion in the stands as fans wait to find out whether or not a goal has been scored. 

 

Look at rugby. They have this technology and their fans don’t show anywhere near the passion at a try as a football fan at a goal. 

 

Having been at the six nations last 2 years, the fans very much celebrate a try. 

 

Goals are generally more rare than tries, or for that matter, hockey goals, baskets, cricket scores, etc. 

That is why they e are celebrated more, 1 goal can win you a game, rare in most sport. 

Nothing to do with VAR. 

 

The Germans and Mexicans, along with even the panami fans prove that. 

No hinging about for var! 

 

[Phil Dunphy]

11 minutes ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

 

Having been at the six nations last 2 years, the fans very much celebrate a try. 

 

Goals are generally more rare than tries, or for that matter, hockey goals, baskets, cricket scores, etc. 

That is why they e are celebrated more, 1 goal can win you a game, rare in most sport. 

Nothing to do with VAR. 

 

The Germans and Mexicans, along with even the panami fans prove that. 

No hinging about for var! 

 

 

Answer me this honestly. 

 

Do you think a referee like John Beaton would over rule his master Willie Collum in a situation like a penalty shout?

[Bazzas right boot]

18 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Answer me this honestly. 

 

Do you think a referee like John Beaton would over rule his master Willie Collum in a situation like a penalty shout?

 

Yip. 

 

The system atm is not peferfect but as  Cade said, it's improved the % of correct decisions so far. 

 

It will be tweaked, but imo, along with goal line technology you will see it being rolled out sooner rather than later. 

 

[Phil Dunphy]

1 hour ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

 

Yip. 

 

The system atm is not peferfect but as  Cade said, it's improved the % of correct decisions so far. 

 

It will be tweaked, but imo, along with goal line technology you will see it being rolled out sooner rather than later. 

 

 

No chance

 

Just because one of them is sat in front of a TV monitor doesn't make them any less of a cheating *******. And you know that.

[Bazzas right boot]

21 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

No chance

 

Just because one of them is sat in front of a TV monitor doesn't make them any less of a cheating *******. And you know that.

 

He he, aye maybe. 

[Jammy T]

The system has caught a lot of decisions that were missed. The correct decision has been made as a result.

 

I don’t see how this can be viewed as a problem by anybody. 

 

The main problem has been it hasn’t caught every wrong decision. A mixture of getting used to it and there still beimg

humam error.

[Don Dan]

Well this has opened a can of worms. I’m not sure if I like it or not. What it has done is shown that or should I say confirms the Refs haven’t a clue. Imagine these numpties we have in Scotland using it to make a decision half them at least are cheats and the other half are useless. 

[Peebo]

Reminds me a bit of the fuss over the replacement refs in the NFL. You can pick the best referees, and give them all the help in the world, and they still make clear mistakes. To err is human...to get pissed off about errors which are meant to be avoided is also human. 

[sac]

Players putting too much pressure on refs to use it for everything.

[Victorian]

We've evolved from:

 

Aaaaaaaargh refs ****ed that up!

 

To..

 

Aaaaaaaaaargh refs ****ed that up but it doesn't matter cos... no he's ****ed that up.

[Cruyff Turn]

3 minutes ago, sac said:

Players putting too much pressure on refs to use it for everything.

They need to sort this out. Perhaps take another leaf from egg chuckings book and start moving the ball forward 5 yards or something or simply bring in rule where only the captain can speak to the ref and any player pressuring the ref, nipping the ref can be sin binned for 5 minutes.

 

 

[BigAlim]

The referee tonight got totally bullied into looking at his wee screen every five minutes and he looked like a nervous wreck 

 

The system itself can only be a good thing and it's helped in the majority of instances to serve justice but it absolutely needs some tweaking, the risk was there for all to see tonight, more dirty tactics than ever from the players trying to take advantage in a high pressure situation

 

Imo the way forward is to book players for persistently telling the ref what to do

[Victorian]

When the ref went over to look at the Iran pen,    he was probably wondering what the Spain score was.    

 

We know the system but previous goings on during the match still has an influence on the VAR team and the referee.      Especially when all hell was breaking loose.      There can still be an element of the VAR team evening up things to have a look at something.    Then the ref can feel pressured into evening something up.       We saw it tonight.

[Don Dan]

11 minutes ago, BigAlim said:

Imo the way forward is to book players for persistently telling the ref what to do

 

 

Agreed. To much protesting and trying to influence the officials. 

[graygo]

Is it not the case that it's not up to the referee to decide whether something needs looked at so players asking him to do so are pissing in the wind anyway.

 

I thought it was the wee gadgeys in the studio in Moscow who told the referee he needed to have a look.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

5 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

 

Agreed. To much protesting and trying to influence the officials. 

 

Also all this pretending to have been hit in the face when they have barely been touched.

This is something which the VAR team can clear up fairly quickly in the replays as to whether they have been hit or not, and if not in the book they go.

 

[shaun.lawson]

12 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

 

Agreed. To much protesting and trying to influence the officials. 

 

Both this and simulation could've been stopped in a flash many years ago. Start giving red cards out, and no-one would do it any more. But FIFA seem to view it as part of the game?!

[Swanny17]

Mind that time Webster elbowed himself in the face? If VAR had existed back then, Webster would have quite rightly been sent off for a clear case of self-harm.