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Budge has made it clear she still expects Hearts to be competing for a top-four place


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1 minute ago, Debut 4 said:

I think even Ann Budge would expect Hearts to look alot more convincing over the season while chasing top 4.

 

There’s chasing top 4 while struggling in 5th to break into it,  or being right in the mix while actually sitting somewhere in the top 4.

 

We all know we’ve been top 3 many times , never mind 4, and what level of play you need to achieve it. Let’s not start getting all snuggly thinking a team toiling in 5th may still sneak top 4 in the last 8 games and it’s been a fine league season.

 

My only hope is that sometimes Hearts do put a few good results together in the last few matches of a season. 

 

 

 

Top 4 is top 4 whether you have been there all season or scrape it with the last kick of the season.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Allowayjambo1874 said:

Just wondered mate, I love the away trips and think they are brilliant, football wise you might be right but then you’ve got to dream if we got a decent run in Europe it could open up many more doors for players and the club. Admittedly it’s highly unlikely for the time being.

 

I totally understand and you are probably right. 

 

Just a bit scunnered with things at the moment.

 

Nothing a cup win won’t sort ?

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davemclaren
2 hours ago, graygo said:

 

Top 4 is top 4 whether you have been there all season or scrape it with the last kick of the season.

 

 

Correct. 

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It's looks unlikely at the moment but who's to say we won't finish the season the way we started it?  That thought keeps me going!!

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Inch Hearts
1 hour ago, TexasAndy said:

It's looks unlikely at the moment but who's to say we won't finish the season the way we started it?  That thought keeps me going!!

 

Because teams quickly learned how to play against us.  There was a surprise element towards the beginning. 

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Can anybody remember Hearts finishing in the top three or four from a lower position at this point in the season?

 

All that springs to mind are season's where we've been in the European places and nearly ****ed it up?

 

1991/92 - had to rely on hibs beating Celtic for us to finish second; we'd been top at New Year.

2005/6 - 4pts off the top at Christmas; finished about 1 pt ahead of Rangers in second

2010/11 - about 2 pts off the top after beating Rangers at Tynie in January; finished abour 30 pts back in third with Dundee utd just behind us.

 

In recent years our season is usually finished by now.

 

2012/13 dead rubbers after the League Cup final defeat.

2013/14 whole season a write off but definitely finished after LEague cup semi

2014/15 great season but finished by this time.  Team took foot of gas and let a couple of numpty teams beat us in the run-in.

2015/16 Finished third but never gave Aberdeen a fight for second and season over after losing to a lower league side in a money spinning cup replay.

2016/17 Cathro

2017/18 Back at Tynie gave us a boost but away form terrible.  20 pts behind Hibs ffs

2018/19 Great start then the wheels fell off. Hopefully a semi final win will get players playing for final places.

 

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Interesting interview with Ann Budge in The Times tomorrow. She has concerns about the @JamTarts fan-ownership scenario. “The fans will not be running the club. They cannot make the decisions. There cannot be interference.”

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Mr Elwood P
22 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

I think even Ann Budge would expect Hearts to look alot more convincing over the season while chasing top 4.

 

There’s chasing top 4 while struggling in 5th to break into it,  or being right in the mix while actually sitting somewhere in the top 4.

 

We all know we’ve been top 3 many times , never mind 4, and what level of play you need to achieve it. Let’s not start getting all snuggly thinking a team toiling in 5th may still sneak top 4 in the last 8 games and it’s been a fine league season.

 

My only hope is that sometimes Hearts do put a few good results together in the last few matches of a season. 

 

 

 

Can someone do a graph or something showing what percentage of the season we have spent in each position in the league? They used to have that kind of stuff in the match program but not sure if they still do?

Edited by Mr Elwood P
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Cruyff Turn
31 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

Interesting interview with Ann Budge in The Times tomorrow. She has concerns about the @JamTarts fan-ownership scenario. “The fans will not be running the club. They cannot make the decisions. There cannot be interference.”

I suppose that is the difference between fan ownership and being fan run. 

 

We can elect people to the board to make the important decisions though. 

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39 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

Interesting interview with Ann Budge in The Times tomorrow. She has concerns about the @JamTarts fan-ownership scenario. “The fans will not be running the club. They cannot make the decisions. There cannot be interference.”

 

And she's correct. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Newton51 said:

Interesting interview with Ann Budge in The Times tomorrow. She has concerns about the @JamTarts fan-ownership scenario. “The fans will not be running the club. They cannot make the decisions. There cannot be interference.”

 

:D nothing like a journo sticking a negative slant on what should be a fantastic story about the journey to achieving fan ownership. Wankpieces. 

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shaun.lawson
3 hours ago, York Ninja said:

Can anybody remember Hearts finishing in the top three or four from a lower position at this point in the season?

 

 

 

The only one I can remember - kind of, to an extent - was 2008/9. When we didn't exactly set the heather on fire, actually looked in a false position in 3rd... then really surprised many by keeping it going ahead of a much more fancied Dundee United.

 

Other than that? In 1999/2000, we were 7th at one point in January, but had already hit 3rd by mid-March; and in 1996/7, we were a false 7th around Xmas, but clear in 4th not long after that. You're right: it pretty much never happens. And as I mentioned last weekend, I think it's all about the Cup now, with the league a case of going through the motions, except against Hibs.

Edited by shaun.lawson
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Bazzas right boot
1 hour ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

The only one I can remember - kind of, to an extent - was 2008/9. When we didn't exactly set the heather on fire, actually looked in a false position in 3rd... then really surprised many by keeping it going ahead of a much more fancied Dundee United.

 

Other than that? In 1999/2000, we were 7th at one point in January, but had already hit 3rd by mid-March; and in 1996/7, we were a false 7th around Xmas, but clear in 4th not long after that. You're right: it pretty much never happens. And as I mentioned last weekend, I think it's all about the Cup now, with the league a case of going through the motions, except against Hibs.

 

 

Wouldn't chuck it until after Aberdeen. 

 

Beat them and we are 2 points of third. 

 

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3 hours ago, Newton51 said:

Interesting interview with Ann Budge in The Times tomorrow. She has concerns about the @JamTarts fan-ownership scenario. “The fans will not be running the club. They cannot make the decisions. There cannot be interference.”

Thats been stated since day 1,all real fans understand what they are paying into the FOH for and the way it will be run.you should subscribe to your teams ownership model.

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2 hours ago, OTT said:

 

:D nothing like a journo sticking a negative slant on what should be a fantastic story about the journey to achieving fan ownership. Wankpieces. 

Just AB restating the point that we will be "fan owned" not "fan run" as she and FoH keep stressing

 

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Nookie Bear
8 hours ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

Wouldn't chuck it until after Aberdeen. 

 

Beat them and we are 2 points of third. 

 

 

This mantra just gets rewritten every month, but with ever decreasing ambitions.

 

"win this and we are top of the league"

"win this and we go 2nd"

"win this and we are a point behind rangers"

"win this and we are 3rd"

"win this and we 2 points off third"

 

 The trend is a decline and the swing in points between us and our rivals since Naismith got injured has been stark.

 

Aim now is to limp through the rest of the league campaign, get to a cup final, and hopefully Budge will reassess the situation in the summer.

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Ann Budge has served a warning to those Hearts fans who believe that, come the transfer of 75.1 per cent of Budge’s shares to the Foundation of Hearts next year, the fans will grab the reins of power at Tynecastle and start dictating the future policy of the club.

The chief executive is concerned about a misconception taking root among a section of the Hearts support, who are relishing the notion of fan-ownership which is due in 12 months’ time when she hands over her majority stake to the FoH.

“What I want is the absolute best for Hearts, and the supporters have been brilliant over these years,” she said. “But I do have a concern about some people’s views once the share transfer is complete. The fans must let the Hearts board get on with the job. It is fundamental that the supporters understand the structure, and that they will not be running the club themselves.”

Budge said that, as the handover date grows closer, she has seen evidence that some supporters believe fan-ownership will give them almost hands-on power at Tynecastle, which will not be the case. “I’m at pains to make this point,” Budge said. “I get lots of letters from people which go something like: ‘Hello Ann. Thank you for everything you have done for the club. I’m a season- ticket holder and a FoH pledger, and I want you to do this or that. And if you don’t, I’m going to stop pledging . . .’

“We have 8,000-odd pledgers — which is fantastic — but there is a small group of people who undoubtedly feel that, because they are either a shareholder or a pledger, they have a right and a say in what happens at the club. It is a difficult one, because of course fans must have a say in things. But they cannot make the decisions about what happens at the club. They can express their view but, at the end of the day, I feel we have a board of directors whose job it is, as in any other company, to run the business.

 

“Personally, I’m a shareholder in lots of companies, but I don’t try and run these businesses. I let other people do it. This has to be understood by our supporters come next year.”

Budge pointed out that, when full fan ownership transpires, the power of the FoH will lie in having at least two representatives on the club’s board, but not in fans agitating around the club on a weekly basis. “In football, why does a manager get sacked?” Budge said. “Usually, it is because the supporters are up in arms — they might demonstrate to a level where a board will say, ‘Right, we need to act.’ So supporters don’t have to be majority shareholders to have that impact.

“The key in this Hearts situation is, if people are unhappy, yes, they must express their opinion. But there will be a board of directors whose job it will be to run this club as a successful business and make day-to-day decisions.

“I think the worst thing that could happen, after my shares transfer, is if anyone — and I include the FoH in this — thinks that, if they don’t like something, then all they need to do is come marching in and say ‘the manager is not doing a good enough job, we want rid of him’. If that happens I think it would be a disaster.

“Supporters can be highly emotional. And I don’t want to take that emotion away. But a board of directors must be trusted to run the club.

“The FoH is already represented on the club board. They have two directors who sit as club directors and, as such, they have influence on everything that goes. They have a director’s vote on everything. Equally, there is an FoH board, who are essentially voted on by the FoH members. And their job is to run the FoH, not run the club. Equally, their job is also to provide for a link into the club’s board.”

Budge pointed out that there would be certain key areas of Hearts policy where the FoH would have a veto and real, immediate power. “There are certain ‘reserved matters’ on which the board could not act without a FoH vote. Fundamental things — if we wanted to change the club’s name, or start playing in green, then the FoH could vote and put a stop to it. Or another example: suppose in a highly unlikely scenario the board decided it wanted to sell the club back to Mr [Vladimir] Romanov. Again, the FoH would be guaranteed a vote, without which no such event could occur.

“I’m trying to make sure that we as a club do this right. I think it is fundamental that the supporters understand the structure, and that they are not running the club themselves. The day-to-day running of the club by the board must be understood and in no way interfered with.

“I’ve said this before: the day on which the shareholding changes hands, I hope it proves a total damp squib in terms of the way the club is run. I hope little changes, actually: that Hearts continues to be run well by its board, with a strategic plan for moving forward. I hope fans won’t suddenly think that they can influence things. It is important that the FoH board gets this message across.”

But it is also worth noting that the FoH would have 75.1 per cent of the voting rights at the club AGM.

Budge said she planned to stay on at Hearts in some capacity once she hands over her shares. “I am not planning to go anywhere. At the moment I am the owner, the chairman, and the chief exec. Clearly, I will no longer be the majority shareholder. I would also like to think I will not be working six or seven days a week as the club’s chief exec.

“If they want me to carry on as chairman, I’ve said I will look at doing that. But, after the handover, I won’t be in a position to be able to make that decision any more. It will be up to others.

“It is not my intention to step away. I just want to make sure I leave a very strong board in place which can continue to run the club.”

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Toxteth O'Grady

I'd rather she stood down once she  sells her shares. We need someone more focussed on producing a winning team. 

Edited by Toxteth O'Grady
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Bazzas right boot
1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

This mantra just gets rewritten every month, but with ever decreasing ambitions.

 

"win this and we are top of the league"

"win this and we go 2nd"

"win this and we are a point behind rangers"

"win this and we are 3rd"

"win this and we 2 points off third"

 

 The trend is a decline and the swing in points between us and our rivals since Naismith got injured has been stark.

 

Aim now is to limp through the rest of the league campaign, get to a cup final, and hopefully Budge will reassess the situation in the summer.

 

 

Maybe, but the point still stands. 

 

Killie and Aberdeen have just been as inconsistent and we play Aberdeen at home soon. 

 

Again, hopefully the players have a better attitude than you, 3rd is within our grasp if we beat Aberdeen. 

Why would we all be m to limo through the rest of the season with this in sight? 

 

You almost sound pissed off at the thought. 

 

Hopefully we get third and win the cup and we can still re assess in the summer. ?

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I can't believe there's fans out there who think they can make important decisions at the club.

 

They obviously don't have a clue what fan ownership actually means.

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Nookie Bear
18 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

Maybe, but the point still stands. 

 

Killie and Aberdeen have just been as inconsistent and we play Aberdeen at home soon. 

 

Again, hopefully the players have a better attitude than you, 3rd is within our grasp if we beat Aberdeen. 

Why would we all be m to limo through the rest of the season with this in sight? 

 

You almost sound pissed off at the thought. 

 

Hopefully we get third and win the cup and we can still re assess in the summer. ?

 

Whats ny attitude got to do with it? Maybe the players could have stepped up to the plate as a team rather than hiding every time Naismith is injured. 

 

I’m pissed off that we are scrambling to get within two points of teams that are inconsistent and who were miles behind us not so long ago. 3rd has been within our grasp all season...2nd has been within our grasp, in fact...but do we look like a team that can do it? Not really. 

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I think a hearts fan has the right to pick the team once a month when the club is under fan ownership next year it would add a bit of excitement to the occasion.

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Geoff the Mince
36 minutes ago, Crete said:

I think a hearts fan has the right to pick the team once a month when the club is under fan ownership next year it would add a bit of excitement to the occasion.

Personally i expect to get a few games in goals or i'm cancelling my pledge ! 

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Nothing that we did no know the main aim of fans

Owning the majority of the shares was to safeguard the club

for future generations anyone who thought otherwise needs

a reality check personally think Ann budge is doing a 

fine job 

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1 minute ago, Hairdryer said:

Nothing that we did no know the main aim of fans

Owning the majority of the shares was to safeguard the club

for future generations anyone who thought otherwise needs

a reality check personally think Ann budge is doing a 

fine job 

Ann Budge doing a good job?..From a commercial perspective, yes absolutely!.....From a footballing perspective, in my opinion...No!...

No compliants about the development of the club, or the direction the club wants to head in commercially. However for most of us I suspect that that most important aspect of the club is the football side of things!.....The product on the pitch is poor, and shows no sign of improving!.....
So in summary it's 50/50 for me regarding Ann Budge tenure. 

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Mr Elwood P
25 minutes ago, Hairdryer said:

Nothing that we did no know the main aim of fans

Owning the majority of the shares was to safeguard the club

for future generations anyone who thought otherwise needs

a reality check personally think Ann budge is doing a 

fine job 

 

Maybe get someone to read this poem out on the day of the handover of the shares from BudgeCo to FOH!

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Anyone know the views of the two FOH reps on the board regarding the football side of the club ?

I apologise if I have missed something obvious from FOH  statements.

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portobellojambo1
50 minutes ago, Hairdryer said:

Nothing that we did no know the main aim of fans

Owning the majority of the shares was to safeguard the club

for future generations anyone who thought otherwise needs

a reality check personally think Ann budge is doing a 

fine job 

 

You will get some who will question her time here, and to me that is fine, if the concerns such people have are valid. The one thing that has happened which I don't think has ever been explained is the removal of Jim Clydesdale, and the reasons why. Did he do anything that he shouldn't have done or were any failings he made actually down to the instructions given to him and any financial restrictions placed on him. It isn't my line of business so I have no idea if the appointment of her brother was down to his firm being the best at what they could do.

 

But, in general, I think she has done remarkably well on the business side, and up front was honest enough to admit she needed help on the football side as she had no experience of managing a football club overall. I would have no objections if, once reverting to a FOH contributor, she was asked to stay on in whatever position is designated as the equivalent to effectively CEO, on the club board.

 

However, I do think we have to start afresh in terms of the most important aspect of the business, and as a football club football always has to be the most important part. While acting as Bidco she had the freedom to determine her own business plan and everything which went with it, including the plans for the football side. But if asked to remain in a senior position it, in my opinion, has to be done with a new plan put in place going forward. Personally I would like to see the position of DOF be done away with and the initial requirement be to put a new manager in place. I have no objections to the coaches at the lower levels retaining their positions, if they want to do so, but I do think any new manager should also be able to bring in his own coach or coaches at first team level. Once FOH are the owners of the club it does represent a new period, and although FOH, as an entity won't run the club overall on a day to day basis I do feel it has to be in a position to set the basic ground rules on which the club board, and the football side of the overall business, will function going forward.

Edited by portobellojambo1
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“In football, why does a manager get sacked?” Budge said. “Usually, it is because the supporters are up in arms — they might demonstrate to a level where a board will say, ‘Right, we need to act.’

Not one that wants Levein out but this tells me she is fully aware of the discontent in parts of our support just now?

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portobellojambo1
2 minutes ago, GYL said:

“In football, why does a manager get sacked?” Budge said. “Usually, it is because the supporters are up in arms — they might demonstrate to a level where a board will say, ‘Right, we need to act.’

Not one that wants Levein out but this tells me she is fully aware of the discontent in parts of our support just now?

 

She is, very aware.

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12 minutes ago, cheetah said:

Not like greedy granny to have a pop at the fans.

 

 

Some 'fans' deserve all the pops they get. 

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Bazzas right boot
1 hour ago, Geoff the Mince said:

Personally i expect to get a few games in goals or i'm cancelling my pledge ! 

 

 

Tbh, Left back is very possible. 

 

 

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Bazzas right boot
16 minutes ago, cheetah said:

Not like greedy granny to have a pop at the fans.

 

 

Some fans deserve to be papped. 

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
16 hours ago, Newton51 said:

Interesting interview with Ann Budge in The Times tomorrow. She has concerns about the @JamTarts fan-ownership scenario. “The fans will not be running the club. They cannot make the decisions. There cannot be interference.”

 

This is how it has to be. You can’t run a club like ours with a committee of thousands.

 

The big challenge will be appointing board members who are able to reflect the wishes of the majority, which won’t be easy.

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
44 minutes ago, cheetah said:

Not like greedy granny to have a pop at the fans.

 

Greedy granny? Low blow that one.

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Calebs Grandad
2 hours ago, Geoff the Mince said:

Personally i expect to get a few games in goals or i'm cancelling my pledge ! 

In all honesty Geoff I don’t think your pledge, irrespective of the amount, entitles you to dictate which position you will be played in! 

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42 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

This is how it has to be. You can’t run a club like ours with a committee of thousands.

 

The big challenge will be appointing board members who are able to reflect the wishes of the majority, which won’t be easy.

 

:spoton:

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We can forget any forecasts of where we will end up this season. The only focus should be on trying to play well in one game. Just one game, actually play to an okay Standard in one single game. One game Craig, just one single game, actually put in a semi half decent performance in one game. 

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davemclaren
1 hour ago, hearts00 said:

We can forget any forecasts of where we will end up this season. The only focus should be on trying to play well in one game. Just one game, actually play to an okay Standard in one single game. One game Craig, just one single game, actually put in a semi half decent performance in one game. 

The focus should be on winning. 

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Pasquale for King
3 hours ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

You will get some who will question her time here, and to me that is fine, if the concerns such people have are valid. The one thing that has happened which I don't think has ever been explained is the removal of Jim Clydesdale, and the reasons why. Did he do anything that he shouldn't have done or were any failings he made actually down to the instructions given to him and any financial restrictions placed on him. It isn't my line of business so I have no idea if the appointment of her brother was down to his firm being the best at what they could do.

 

But, in general, I think she has done remarkably well on the business side, and up front was honest enough to admit she needed help on the football side as she had no experience of managing a football club overall. I would have no objections if, once reverting to a FOH contributor, she was asked to stay on in whatever position is designated as the equivalent to effectively CEO, on the club board.

 

However, I do think we have to start afresh in terms of the most important aspect of the business, and as a football club football always has to be the most important part. While acting as Bidco she had the freedom to determine her own business plan and everything which went with it, including the plans for the football side. But if asked to remain in a senior position it, in my opinion, has to be done with a new plan put in place going forward. Personally I would like to see the position of DOF be done away with and the initial requirement be to put a new manager in place. I have no objections to the coaches at the lower levels retaining their positions, if they want to do so, but I do think any new manager should also be able to bring in his own coach or coaches at first team level. Once FOH are the owners of the club it does represent a new period, and although FOH, as an entity won't run the club overall on a day to day basis I do feel it has to be in a position to set the basic ground rules on which the club board, and the football side of the overall business, will function going forward.

Great post. I think she has indicated that we will need a new Cheif Executive in her interview. Hopefully someone who knows more about football than she does.

I feel she’s been a bit condescending to the fans who think they’re going to run every little aspect of the club. A football club isn’t a normal business and it seems she doesn’t quite grasp that, do shareholders protest in and outside the business if they think it’s not being run properly for instance? The biggest shareholders in any business do have a say in how it’s run. The two FoH board members will have a big part to play, they have to communicate the feelings of the fans on the big issues or they might be replaced with folk that will. Her tenure has had way more positives than negatives and I hope she’s around for a while yet.

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Alex Kintner
On 22/03/2019 at 14:33, Inch Hearts said:

 

Because teams quickly learned how to play against us.  There was a surprise element towards the beginning. 

 

Utter drivel :rofl:

 

I’ll never understand the desperation of some of our own fans to play down our own successes just to match their feelings towards Levein. It’s cringeworthy.

 

:facepalm:

Edited by To Be Frank
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On ‎23‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 11:29, cheetah said:

Not like greedy granny to have a pop at the fans.

FFS, that's one of the most chronic pieces of chat on here ever.  Well done.

 

:cornette_dog:

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Inch Hearts
2 hours ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Utter drivel :rofl:

 

I’ll never understand the desperation of some of our own fans to play down our own successes just to match their feelings towards Levein. It’s cringeworthy.

 

:facepalm:

 

I’ve no personal feelings towards Levein.   In fact I like the passion he has for us over the last 20 plus years.  It isn’t drivel either there was a surprised level of all the new players at the start of the season.

 

You really have to stop taking others opinions so personally.  

Edited by Inch Hearts
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Nookie Bear

We had a vibrancy in the opening weeks. The new players were keen to impress and guys like Lee, Uche, Haring, Dunne all hit the ground running and that had a positive influence on the likes of Morrison. Naismith was fit and the keeper looked solid.

 

It was inevitable that there would be a tail -off in that and, for me, we should have reassessed our ambitions in January and invested in the squad. A couple of additions in the right places could have seen us challenging for 2nd* but we seemed to get into a rut of feeling sorry for ourselves over Naismith without ever really planning for life without him.

 

*not only challenge for 2nd this season but also start the process of creating an even better team for next season

 

 

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FarmerTweedy
18 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

We had a vibrancy in the opening weeks. The new players were keen to impress and guys like Lee, Uche, Haring, Dunne all hit the ground running and that had a positive influence on the likes of Morrison. Naismith was fit and the keeper looked solid.

 

It was inevitable that there would be a tail -off in that and, for me, we should have reassessed our ambitions in January and invested in the squad. A couple of additions in the right places could have seen us challenging for 2nd* but we seemed to get into a rut of feeling sorry for ourselves over Naismith without ever really planning for life without him.

 

*not only challenge for 2nd this season but also start the process of creating an even better team for next season

 

 

Really?  After all that happened a few years ago, you think we should have gone back to spending more than we can actually afford to again, and started down the 'speculate to accumulate' path that almost resulted in us losing Tynecastle and then nearly put us out of business entirely? 

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Nookie Bear
17 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said:

Really?  After all that happened a few years ago, you think we should have gone back to spending more than we can actually afford to again, and started down the 'speculate to accumulate' path that almost resulted in us losing Tynecastle and then nearly put us out of business entirely? 

 

I wasn't suggesting we go out and throw millions of pounds about.

 

A decent loan signing or two, perhaps a bit of money on a player who was fit and could do a job for a couple of years? That's all.

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