Unknown user Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, alfajambo said: That’s good. Now please explain to me the mechanism for change. For the latter. What, or it must have been god? Strawman much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 54 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said: I see no benefit to mankind from religion. The god squad can make as many spurious claims they want. Our thinking was that back in the days when we were living in trees and caves, we needed something to explain the world around us. Where the **** does the sun go? Will it come back? Why is it now freezing and snowing, are we going to be able to grow crops again or are we going to starve? Holy shit, that mountain just exploded and killed a shit load of people, how the **** did that happen? Basically, in our early stages of evolution, the world would have been absolutely terrifying. A diety who made all that happen would have helped us feel better. Also, most religions have a set of rules and morals that people should obey otherwise their God gets pissed off. Most of them are generally good ones, don't steal, don't kill etc. If people weren't killing and stealing there'd be no need to have these rules so again in the early days of civilization, we probably needed these for law and order. Nowadays, we're a bit smarter so it's no longer needed. But in the beginning, it was a great bit of help to the human race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 26 minutes ago, deesidejambo said: How do you explain Neil Lennon then? Random mutations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, Normthebarman said: Our thinking was that back in the days when we were living in trees and caves, we needed something to explain the world around us. Where the **** does the sun go? Will it come back? Why is it now freezing and snowing, are we going to be able to grow crops again or are we going to starve? Holy shit, that mountain just exploded and killed a shit load of people, how the **** did that happen? Basically, in our early stages of evolution, the world would have been absolutely terrifying. A diety who made all that happen would have helped us feel better. Also, most religions have a set of rules and morals that people should obey otherwise their God gets pissed off. Most of them are generally good ones, don't steal, don't kill etc. If people weren't killing and stealing there'd be no need to have these rules so again in the early days of civilization, we probably needed these for law and order. Nowadays, we're a bit smarter so it's no longer needed. But in the beginning, it was a great bit of help to the human race. Indeed. It served a purpose at a time when we lacked the ability to study things properly and work out what is really going on. But it is now outdated and unnecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 A good watch. Available on Discovery catch-up in HD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidelight Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 46 minutes ago, Smithee said: What, or it must have been god? Strawman much? No. Legitimate questions both. What is the mechanism, and where did the information defer from to allow the mechanics of implementation? Should we all not ask these questions? I don’t believe in God and have faith in Jesus Christ because of science and its fantastic discoveries. However the understanding and light made known through scientific advancement does nothing do diminish my faith. In fact the opposite is true. 23 minutes ago, Ray Gin said: Random mutations. Perhaps we are not all that far apart after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 25 minutes ago, Normthebarman said: Our thinking was that back in the days when we were living in trees and caves, we needed something to explain the world around us. Where the **** does the sun go? Will it come back? Why is it now freezing and snowing, are we going to be able to grow crops again or are we going to starve? Holy shit, that mountain just exploded and killed a shit load of people, how the **** did that happen? Basically, in our early stages of evolution, the world would have been absolutely terrifying. A diety who made all that happen would have helped us feel better. Also, most religions have a set of rules and morals that people should obey otherwise their God gets pissed off. Most of them are generally good ones, don't steal, don't kill etc. If people weren't killing and stealing there'd be no need to have these rules so again in the early days of civilization, we probably needed these for law and order. Nowadays, we're a bit smarter so it's no longer needed. But in the beginning, it was a great bit of help to the human race. I'm not so sure about it being a help, I don't see how believing a pile of bollocks helps anything. I can see how it was a comfort, as it is to many now, but would the many who've died at it's hand consider religion a help to mankind? When we're talking religion we're talking about the earliest sacrifices, the bloody wars, the torture carried out in its name, and I can't see that any of that helped mankind. As a means of population control I can see how religion made things easier for those in authority, but even then someone will have to explain why that's good for the human race rather than useful for those in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Just now, Smithee said: I'm not so sure about it being a help, I don't see how believing a pile of bollocks helps anything. I can see how it was a comfort, as it is to many now, but would the many who've died at it's hand consider religion a help to mankind? When we're talking religion we're talking about the earliest sacrifices, the bloody wars, the torture carried out in its name, and I can't see that any of that helped mankind. As a means of population control I can see how religion made things easier for those in authority, but even then someone will have to explain why that's good for the human race rather than useful for those in charge. In the beginning it was essentially a means of policing people and getting them to behave how you want. However it certainly spiraled into something far more poisonous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, alfajambo said: No. Legitimate questions both. What is the mechanism, and where did the information defer from to allow the mechanics of implementation? Should we all not ask these questions? I don’t believe in God and have faith in Jesus Christ because of science and its fantastic discoveries. However the understanding and light made known through scientific advancement does nothing do diminish my faith. In fact the opposite is true. Perhaps we are not all that far apart after all. Legitimate questions, but what relevance to an atheism thread if not intended to back up your position? Personally I don't see much point in asking these questions, I don't care how we came about - even if I guessed the truth I'd never know I was right, so who cares? The only thing I do know for sure is that intelligent design is bollocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Ray Gin said: In the beginning it was essentially a means of policing people and getting them to behave how you want. However it certainly spiraled into something far more poisonous. Sounds pretty poisonous to start with - lying in order to manipulate people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Normthebarman said: Our thinking was that back in the days when we were living in trees and caves, we needed something to explain the world around us. Where the **** does the sun go? Will it come back? Why is it now freezing and snowing, are we going to be able to grow crops again or are we going to starve? Holy shit, that mountain just exploded and killed a shit load of people, how the **** did that happen? Basically, in our early stages of evolution, the world would have been absolutely terrifying. A diety who made all that happen would have helped us feel better. Also, most religions have a set of rules and morals that people should obey otherwise their God gets pissed off. Most of them are generally good ones, don't steal, don't kill etc. If people weren't killing and stealing there'd be no need to have these rules so again in the early days of civilization, we probably needed these for law and order. Nowadays, we're a bit smarter so it's no longer needed. But in the beginning, it was a great bit of help to the human race. Whatever mumbo jumbo they believed in then has been debunked. It doesn't mean otherwise intelligent people should howl at the moon, now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said: Whatever mumbo jumbo they believed in then has been debunked. It doesn't mean otherwise intelligent people should howl at the moon, now. I'd agree. But it had a time and a place in our history and development where, for me, I'd say it was a benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 3 hours ago, alfajambo said: I don’t believe in God and have faith in Jesus Christ because of science and its fantastic discoveries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Normthebarman said: I'd agree. But it had a time and a place in our history and development where, for me, I'd say it was a benefit. Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidelight Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 31 minutes ago, Ray Gin said: I don’t believe in God and have faith in Jesus Christ because of science and its fantastic discoveries. However the understanding and light made known through scientific advancement does nothing do diminish my faith. In fact the opposite is true. 31 minutes ago, Ray Gin said: Sorted it for you. An intelligent faith is built on the cumulative evidence of scientific discovery, history, the bible narrative and of course personal experience. Ironically enough, its Christians that argue that only belief in a Creator God, gives us firm ground to believe in the inductive principle in the first place. When you deny the existence of a creator, the atheists are kicking away the basis for their own argument. As I have said before your atheistic faith is built on, stamping your feet and repeating Ad infinitum, there is no God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 You don't believe in God, but you believe in the character who claimed to be the son of God. And think, somehow, that this is 'intelligent faith'. I don't even know where to go with this. Just....wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidelight Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidelight Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Ray Gin said: You don't believe in God, but you believe in the character who claimed to be the son of God. And think, somehow, that this is 'intelligent faith'. I don't even know where to go with this. Just....wow. You seem to be slightly confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Ray Gin said: You don't believe in God, but you believe in the character who claimed to be the son of God. And think, somehow, that this is 'intelligent faith'. I don't even know where to go with this. Just....wow. To be fair, wasn't jesus just an ancient times great soprendo, doing fairly decent magic tricks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, alfajambo said: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/six-things-ben-stein-doesnt-want-you-to-know/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, alfajambo said: You seem to be slightly confused. I am. You're not making much sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidelight Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, Ray Gin said: I am. You're not making much sense. My belief in God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit is not determined primarily by my scientific understanding. I hope your confusion has been cleared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Ok, I follow you now. Which scientific advancements in particular do you feel enhance your belief in God and Jesus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 2 hours ago, alfajambo said: My belief in God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit is not determined primarily by my scientific understanding. I hope your confusion has been cleared. That seems pretty obvious tbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Curious to know what people on both sides of this debate think about the plans for Stephen Hawkings funeral and interment. seems to me that if he was an atheist it’s an insult to his memory to have any religious ritual to his passing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesJambes Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, deesidejambo said: Curious to know what people on both sides of this debate think about the plans for Stephen Hawkings funeral and interment. seems to me that if he was an atheist it’s an insult to his memory to have any religious ritual to his passing? I suppose it's up to his family. To me it doesn't mean anything, there's some christian group that go through lists of people who have died and do some sort of Baptism woo on them to be Mormons or whatever it is. They can waste their time doing that if it makes them happy, as an atheist I wouldn't object because I genuinely don't believe it has any effect whatsoever, it's just done for the families to bring them comfort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davie1980 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 3 hours ago, alfajambo said: An intelligent faith is built on the cumulative evidence of scientific discovery, history, the bible narrative and of course personal experience. Ironically enough, its Christians that argue that only belief in a Creator God, gives us firm ground to believe in the inductive principle in the first place. When you deny the existence of a creator, the atheists are kicking away the basis for their own argument. As I have said before your atheistic faith is built on, stamping your feet and repeating Ad infinitum, there is no God. An intelligent faith? That's an interesting term.. Religion and faith are by definition blind. Your religion, like most others demands belief without evidence, the very definition of faith. No matter what scientific evidence or proof can be thrown at you, contrary to your belief, you are demanded to disregard it. Threatened in fact with eternal damnation. No Faith isn't intelligent, it attempts to be clever by using convenient scientific facts, twisting them in it's favour. Cherry picking the science and history that backs it's assertions while ignoring the rest. If religion was based on the cumulative evidence of scientific discover and actual proven history, it would have ceased to exist. Because the vast majority of both points to glaring inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the holy texts upon which it is based. Science points to the impossibility of the stories told, History points to the re-writing and manipulation of the texts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 1 hour ago, LesJambes said: I suppose it's up to his family. To me it doesn't mean anything, there's some christian group that go through lists of people who have died and do some sort of Baptism woo on them to be Mormons or whatever it is. They can waste their time doing that if it makes them happy, as an atheist I wouldn't object because I genuinely don't believe it has any effect whatsoever, it's just done for the families to bring them comfort. It's the Mormons. It's not only done to give families comfort, it's also done because they have the aim of cataloguing and retrospectively baptising everyone who has ever lived for whom there are records (concentrating first on the ancestors of current Mormons, but also including the likes of Gandhi, Hitler and Genghis Khan). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_for_the_dead Great for genealogists though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsmak Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 This thread is a bit strange. If just one thing happened to prove that there was a god, just one thing... All atheists would hold up their hands and say... Well, blow me, I got that wrong.. The problem is that there has never, and will never be anything that proves the existence of god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 8 hours ago, Bigsmak said: This thread is a bit strange. If just one thing happened to prove that there was a god, just one thing... All atheists would hold up their hands and say... Well, blow me, I got that wrong.. The problem is that there has never, and will never be anything that proves the existence of god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 8 hours ago, Bigsmak said: This thread is a bit strange. If just one thing happened to prove that there was a god, just one thing... All atheists would hold up their hands and say... Well, blow me, I got that wrong.. The problem is that there has never, and will never be anything that proves the existence of god. Indeed correct. And the same the other way round. Two sides of the same coin. it will never be proven there is a god. and it will never be proven there isn’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 9 hours ago, Bigsmak said: there has never, and will never be anything that proves the existence of god. That's because it is a lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 9 hours ago, Bigsmak said: This thread is a bit strange. If just one thing happened to prove that there was a god, just one thing... All atheists would hold up their hands and say... Well, blow me, I got that wrong.. The problem is that there has never, and will never be anything that proves the existence of god. Indeed, and while the religious will point to this as some sort of defence for their beliefs, it isn't. I could say I've got an ethereal pal called Rab who follows me around, whispering in my ear, and you can't prove otherwise, but how weak an argument is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesJambes Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 9 minutes ago, Smithee said: Indeed, and while the religious will point to this as some sort of defence for their beliefs, it isn't. I could say I've got an ethereal pal called Rab who follows me around, whispering in my ear, and you can't prove otherwise, but how weak an argument is that? I believe in the big gay pink invisible unicorn that shagged all previously existing gods to death. They can't prove he doesn't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 minute ago, LesJambes said: I believe in the big gay pink invisible unicorn that shagged all previously existing gods to death. They can't prove he doesn't exist. Seems as legit as the rest TBH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesJambes Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, Smithee said: Seems as legit as the rest TBH It's even got a book!* That's surely enough for any reasonable person to make significant changes to their life and dedicate hours per day to worshipping said character? *Only I can read the book to you, it has to be in the dark with a torch under my chin. Any penis touching is legally covered in the user agreement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, LesJambes said: It's even got a book!* That's surely enough for any reasonable person to make significant changes to their life and dedicate hours per day to worshipping said character? *Only I can read the book to you, it has to be in the dark with a torch under my chin. Any penis touching is legally covered in the user agreement Dum dum dum dum dum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesJambes Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Smithee said: Dum dum dum dum dum! Probably the best South Park episode of all time! Followed by the Richard Dawkins one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 minute ago, LesJambes said: Probably the best South Park episode of all time! Followed by the Richard Dawkins one. I dunno like "Fart sequence initiated" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 "Nana nana naa naa, I made you eat your parents" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesJambes Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 Will you pledge your allegiance to the Allied Atheist Alliance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Okay, now there are sparks shooting out of my eyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 SUPER BEST FRIENDS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesJambes Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, Ray Gin said: SUPER BEST FRIENDS! I can't believe that was actually got broadcasted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 56 minutes ago, Ray Gin said: SUPER BEST FRIENDS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 God and Jesus hanging out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Let's not forget the scientology episode Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesJambes Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, Ray Gin said: Let's not forget the scientology episode I wonder if there are Xenuists, like Scientology's version of Satanism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 7 minutes ago, Ray Gin said: Let's not forget the scientology episode We are digressing a bit, but here's probably my favourite south Park character Who made you the Mayor of meh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) Ok last South Park post Edited March 22, 2018 by Ray Gin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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