Atheism thread

[LesJambes]

From another thread the topic of atheism came up. Good to see some other atheists here, thought I'd make a thread to share some quotes, memes, whatever. ?

[Ray Gin]

[davemclaren]

4 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

?

[Sharpie]

I have so many questions about religion, I watched a religious program the other day. A woman was being interviewed, she admitted she had become addicted to drugs at University. So bad she quit got into prostitutuion, lived with a trafficker. Woke up one morning her trafiicker boy friend was dead, did not say why, probably overdose, she and a friend removed him from the house and buried him, later her eighteen year old brother begged her to inject him for the first time with heroin she did. He gasped a couple of times and died.  More to her story but she found God and is now living a good life and telling her story.  What I cannot understand is why she now has a good life and a fourteen year old kid is shot and killed, or severely wounded at school.

I do not attend church, have no loyalty to any religious entity, but neither am I a true Atheist, I am not ready for total rejection, I am not convinced that the end is the end, but that the after life may be more scientific than religious, I do know for sure whatever the after life this old body ain't going I will have to be issued with a whole new model.

 

[LesJambes]

1 hour ago, Ray Gin said:

img

Great quote! I find Ricky Gervais annoying as hell at times, but he can also be hilarious.

 

8 minutes ago, bobsharp said:

I have so many questions about religion, I watched a religious program the other day. A woman was being interviewed, she admitted she had become addicted to drugs at University. So bad she quit got into prostitutuion, lived with a trafficker. Woke up one morning her trafiicker boy friend was dead, did not say why, probably overdose, she and a friend removed him from the house and buried him, later her eighteen year old brother begged her to inject him for the first time with heroin she did. He gasped a couple of times and died.  More to her story but she found God and is now living a good life and telling her story.  What I cannot understand is why she now has a good life and a fourteen year old kid is shot and killed, or severely wounded at school.

I do not attend church, have no loyalty to any religious entity, but neither am I a true Atheist, I am not ready for total rejection, I am not convinced that the end is the end, but that the after life may be more scientific than religious, I do know for sure whatever the after life this old body ain't going I will have to be issued with a whole new model.

 

As a depressed suicidal type I actually take comfort in the thought of there being no afterlife, no reincarnation. I know it's not the done thing though.

[LesJambes]

[redjambo]

5 minutes ago, LesJambes said:

As a depressed suicidal type I actually take comfort in the thought of there being no afterlife, no reincarnation. I know it's not the done thing though.

 

Who cares whether or not it is the done thing?

 

None of us knows what happens after we die. There might be nothing as far as our consciousness is aware. But, at the very least, physically our atoms will carry on existing in this amazing universe of ours, although as parts of different entities. The atoms that make us up will carry on regardless. I like that thought.

 

The most important aspect is though, how utterly remarkable is it in this huge diverse universe that we have been given this chance to live, to think, to feel as humans? We could have been flowers, trees, bacteria, insects, almost anything, nothing at all. But here we are. I don't know if karma and rebirth exist, but if they do, I must have been a superb creature in my last life to deserve this opportunity. If they don't, I'm thankful anyway for my existence, albeit not to any supernatural entity or cause, just thankful.

[Sharpie]

17 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Who cares whether or not it is the done thing?

 

None of us knows what happens after we die. There might be nothing as far as our consciousness is aware. But, at the very least, physically our atoms will carry on existing in this amazing universe of ours, although as parts of different entities. The atoms that make us up will carry on regardless. I like that thought.

 

The most important aspect is though, how utterly remarkable is it in this huge diverse universe that we have been given this chance to live, to think, to feel as humans? We could have been flowers, trees, bacteria, insects, almost anything, nothing at all. But here we are. I don't know if karma and rebirth exist, but if they do, I must have been a superb creature in my last life to deserve this opportunity. If they don't, I'm thankful anyway for my existence, albeit not to any supernatural entity or cause, just thankful.

 

I wish I could have put it just like that.

[peter_hmfc]

God .

Religion .

Praying .

[Jambo-Jimbo]

39 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Who cares whether or not it is the done thing?

 

None of us knows what happens after we die. There might be nothing as far as our consciousness is aware. But, at the very least, physically our atoms will carry on existing in this amazing universe of ours, although as parts of different entities. The atoms that make us up will carry on regardless. I like that thought.

 

The most important aspect is though, how utterly remarkable is it in this huge diverse universe that we have been given this chance to live, to think, to feel as humans? We could have been flowers, trees, bacteria, insects, almost anything, nothing at all. But here we are. I don't know if karma and rebirth exist, but if they do, I must have been a superb creature in my last life to deserve this opportunity. If they don't, I'm thankful anyway for my existence, albeit not to any supernatural entity or cause, just thankful.

 

That being the case, then everyone has already achieved eternal life whether they have found religion or not, it is literally a case of life but not as we know it and certainly not in the form it once was.  

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

That being the case, then everyone has already achieved eternal life whether they have found religion or not, it is literally a case of life but not as we know it and certainly not in the form it once was.  

 

Indeed. As for many things, it depends on definitions, in this case the definition of "life". Perhaps eternal existence might be more apt?

 

 

[Unknown user]

[redjambo]

7 minutes ago, peter_hmfc said:

God .

Religion .

Praying .

 

I don't get this, to be honest, Peter. Who knows if there is a God or Gods? I certainly don't but you never know. As far as I am concerned, people can believe anything they want as long as those beliefs and the practice of those beliefs doesn't cause harm to anyone else (and I would probably expand this to include animals and nature, but we could have hours of arguments over that one, especially because it is effectively an impossible objective).

 

Why mock someone else's beliefs just because you don't agree with those beliefs?

[peter_hmfc]

52 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I don't get this, to be honest, Peter. Who knows if there is a God or Gods? I certainly don't but you never know. As far as I am concerned, people can believe anything they want as long as those beliefs and the practice of those beliefs doesn't cause harm to anyone else (and I would probably expand this to include animals and nature, but we could have hours of arguments over that one, especially because it is effectively an impossible objective).

 

Why mock someone else's beliefs just because you don't agree with those beliefs?

 

Because their beliefs are ****ing ridiculous to be honest with you .

 

Jesus being a carpenter in a place that had no trees. Muhammad splitting the moon. Worshipping cows. 

 

In most religions I deserve to be beheading or tortured for eternity in hell, mocking them is fleeting in comparison.

 

**** them.

[redjambo]

9 minutes ago, peter_hmfc said:

 

Because their beliefs are ****ing ridiculous to be honest with you .

 

Jesus being a carpenter in a place that had no trees. Muhammad splitting the moon. Worshipping cows. 

 

In most religions I deserve to be beheading or tortured for eternity in hell, mocking them is fleeting in comparison.

 

**** them.

 

Out of interest, where did you get the idea that there were no trees in the Levant?

[peter_hmfc]

8 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Out of interest, where did you get the idea that there were no trees in the Levant?

 

That's irregardless whether there is or not, the eternity-in-hell and beheading parts of religion are the somewhat more significant parts.

[redjambo]

Just now, peter_hmfc said:

 

That's irregardless whether there is or not, the eternity-in-hell and beheading parts of religion are the somewhat more significant parts.

 

I can see that this argument is going to pot, but what the heck.

 

Firstly, you should travel to the Levant and see for yourself that there are plenty of trees there. Have a look at the Lebanese flag, for example, if you don't believe me. There is debate among those people who believe that Jesus Christ existed that he may have been a stone mason, but there was certainly enough wood around to allow him to have been a carpenter. I don't really care myself, it is of no importance to me. If you thought your incorrect statement was irregardless then you shouldn't have bothered including it or, at the very least, admitted that you were wrong. The fact you didn't admit that fact is very illuminating.

 

Eternity-in-hell and beheading are only parts of some religions. There are a great number of religions and beliefs out there. In the end though, it's not the belief that causes harm, it is the actions that are carried out in the name of the belief. There have been some very compassionate folk in history who have been "religious", many murderous megalomaniacs too admittedly. But it is the actions we should be judging. If any person wants to live a good and caring life and call themselves "religious" then all power to them. I personally couldn't give a crap what someone says that they believe in, it's what they do, what they say, how they act that counts.

 

Essentially, by dismissing whole religions, you're dismissing whole loads of good people. We've go to get away from judging people based on their religion and move towards judging individuals by what they do. That's what really counts.

[John Frum]

Christopher Hitchens "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." 

[peter_hmfc]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

I can see that this argument is going to pot, but what the heck.

 

Firstly, you should travel to the Levant and see for yourself that there are plenty of trees there. Have a look at the Lebanese flag, for example, if you don't believe me. There is debate among those people who believe that Jesus Christ existed that he may have been a stone mason, but there was certainly enough wood around to allow him to have been a carpenter. I don't really care myself, it is of no importance to me. If you thought your incorrect statement was irregardless then you shouldn't have bothered including it or, at the very least, admitted that you were wrong. The fact you didn't admit that fact is very illuminating. It might have been incorrect but you're picking the lowest hanging fruit here. The point isn't the number of trees, it's the general ridiculousness of the Bible itself. Substitute trees for the fact that an all-loving God will send you to his basement torture dungeon for not loving him if you prefer, the point is that the book is a load of shite. I notice you haven't tried to answer the section on Muhammed splitting the moon in two, by the way.

 

Eternity-in-hell and beheading are only parts of some religions. Being forever tortured and having your head cut off is a fairly significant and disgusting part, seems like you're trying to mitigate it's severity. That's like saying that the Pulse nightclub shooting was only one day of Omar Mateen's life. There are a great number of religions and beliefs out there. In the end though, it's not the belief that causes harm, it is the actions that are carried out in the name of the belief. So where do they take these beliefs and inspirations from? There have been some very compassionate folk in history who have been "religious", many murderous megalomaniacs too admittedly You don't say. Does the kindness of the compassionate folk write off the bloodshed and terror of the maniacs? Should we call it quits? But it is the actions we should be judging. As in ritual beheadings in Saudi Arabia, religion-endorsed wife-beating in Pakistan, or numerous terrorist attacks? If any person wants to live a good and caring life and call themselves "religious" then all power to them. I personally couldn't give a crap what someone says that they believe in, it's what they do, what they say, how they act that counts. How about when they act in a way that is of a detriment to you because their religion instructs them to?

 

Essentially, by dismissing whole religions, you're dismissing whole loads of good people. We've go to get away from judging people based on their religion and move towards judging individuals by what they do. That's what really counts. No-one is judging people entirely on their religion, there's a significant difference between mocking a person and mocking their religion.

 

[jake]

4 hours ago, peter_hmfc said:

God .

Religion .

Praying .

You have to laugh at those who laugh at people who share their thoughts through prayer with their god by sharing their thoughts on a football forum.

 

 

[Ray Gin]

Why? The forum actually exists.

[jake]

9 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

Why? The forum actually exists.

So does the person who prays.

As does their church.

Edited March 11, 2018 by jake

[Ray Gin]

1 minute ago, jake said:

So does the person who prays.

As does their church.

 

But who they are praying to doesn't.

 

There's nothing there to hear their prayers. There are, however, many people would can read posts on a forum.

[peter_hmfc]

27 minutes ago, jake said:

You have to laugh at those who laugh at people who share their thoughts through prayer with their god by sharing their thoughts on a football forum.

 

I'm sure this sentence makes sense but it's so badly written it's just not worth deciphering.

 

[jake]

16 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

But who they are praying to doesn't.

 

There's nothing there to hear their prayers. There are, however, many people would can read posts on a forum.

They believe that something does.

Now you may not place any validation on that .

But if you were to post on here there is no guarantee that anyone would read it is there?

The only reality is that you believe they will.

You cannot know because you cannot see the person you are talking to.

 

 

Anyway I suppose I don't like it as my old dear prays and believes in God.

And while I do not believe in God . I don't like the mocking of those who do.

 

 

Edited March 11, 2018 by jake
Bad grammar ☺

[jake]

3 minutes ago, peter_hmfc said:

 

I'm sure this sentence makes sense but it's so badly written it's just not worth deciphering.

 

Thought it read better with no punctuation to be honest.

 

[LesJambes]

4 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

I don't get this, to be honest, Peter. Who knows if there is a God or Gods? I certainly don't but you never know. As far as I am concerned, people can believe anything they want as long as those beliefs and the practice of those beliefs doesn't cause harm to anyone else (and I would probably expand this to include animals and nature, but we could have hours of arguments over that one, especially because it is effectively an impossible objective).

 

Why mock someone else's beliefs just because you don't agree with those beliefs?

As science discovers the size and abundance of planets it becomes ever more likely there is life out there that by any standards could be godlike in comparison to us. If we could travel back in time 200 years we would appear like gods, with the ability to fly, create fire and lightning, record voices etc. So it really all depends on the definition of a god. That said an omnipotent god is a paradox. And all of the mainstream religions are contradictory and unscientific so we can rule them out as possibilities.BTW being an atheist does not necessarily mean being gnostic, most atheists are in fact agnostic atheists, ie we don't believe in any gods but we don't claim to know.

 

If the god of the entire universe cannot withstand a little mockery, then frankly they are not worth worshipping. I'm not omnipotent but even I can take a joke. If your god can't then it's not much of a god imo. And if you can't take my mocking him then you don't have much faith. Surely the thought I'll burn in hell forever is punishment enough? No need for you to admonish me also.

 

3 hours ago, redjambo said:

Eternity-in-hell and beheading are only parts of some religions. There are a great number of religions and beliefs out there. In the end though, it's not the belief that causes harm, it is the actions that are carried out in the name of the belief. There have been some very compassionate folk in history who have been "religious", many murderous megalomaniacs too admittedly. But it is the actions we should be judging. If any person wants to live a good and caring life and call themselves "religious" then all power to them. I personally couldn't give a crap what someone says that they believe in, it's what they do, what they say, how they act that counts.

 

Essentially, by dismissing whole religions, you're dismissing whole loads of good people. We've go to get away from judging people based on their religion and move towards judging individuals by what they do. That's what really counts.

I both agree and disagree here, the belief does cause harm. For example if a person believes a child needs to have their genitals circumcised for their religion, apart from it hurting and mutilating a child, it can also do serious permanent damage. So in that case I hold the belief directly responsible for that act. But I do agree if for example a Buddhist monk decides to bomb a temple, it's not fair to hold Buddhism responsible, because nowhere in Buddhism does it have any justification for murder. Just the opposite in fact.

 

Beliefs are not people though. we have the right to criticise bad ideas. For example I strongly dislike conservatism and fascism, to put it diplomatically. That doesn't mean I hate every single conservative and fascist, I don't even know many of them. It just means I disagree with their beliefs, as no doubt they do mine. And we both have the rights to disagree and criticise each others beliefs. Religion does not get a special pass just because you add in a skywizard. What if I make Hitlerism a religion, does nobody get to question the Nazis because now that's my religious beliefs you're offending?

 

1 hour ago, John Frum said:

Christopher Hitchens "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." 

But do you have any proof he said that?!

[LesJambes]

5 minutes ago, jake said:

They believe that something does.

Now you may not place any validation on that .

But if you were to post on here there is no guarantee that anyone would read it is there?

The only reality is that you believe they will.

You cannot know because you cannot see the person you are talking to.

 

 

Anyway I suppose I don't like it as my old dear prays and believes in God.

And while I do not believe in God . I don't like the mocking of those who do.

 

 

I can o0nly speak for myself, but it's not laughing directly at anyone, it's the silliness of the ideas themselves. One religion I frequently laugh at is Scientology, but I actually have the deepest sympathy for people who are brainwashed into that cult, and often locked up. So my mockery doesn't come from malice against individuals, except perhaps some of the charlatans who use these religions to abuse others, it comes from a disrespect of the ideology precisely because of how it can harm people.

[tian447]

Personally, I think religion is bollocks. I really really don't get it, and don't understand why so many people do

 

However. I respect their choice to believe in whatever they like. I just don't like when people try to force that upon me, and I don't understand what satisfaction people get in even trying. I'll keep my opinions to myself as long as they keep their opinions to themselves. 

 

See if everyone was this way, the world would have hardly any problems. 

[LesJambes]

8 minutes ago, tian447 said:

Personally, I think religion is bollocks. I really really don't get it, and don't understand why so many people do

 

However. I respect their choice to believe in whatever they like. I just don't like when people try to force that upon me, and I don't understand what satisfaction people get in even trying. I'll keep my opinions to myself as long as they keep their opinions to themselves. 

 

See if everyone was this way, the world would have hardly any problems. 

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

All this.

[LesJambes]

Too late to add a trigger warning to the OP.

[redjambo]

11 minutes ago, LesJambes said:

If the god of the entire universe cannot withstand a little mockery, then frankly they are not worth worshipping. I'm not omnipotent but even I can take a joke. If your god can't then it's not much of a god imo. And if you can't take my mocking him then you don't have much faith. Surely the thought I'll burn in hell forever is punishment enough? No need for you to admonish me also.

 

If your "you" is the generic "one" then fair enough. If it is directed at me then I should tell you that you've picked me up wrong. I don't have a god and I certainly wouldn't have one that involved some sort of "hell". And at no point have I talked about mocking a god, just mocking people's beliefs. I think that the universe in general may possess some form of sentience but whether it does, or in fact is even aware of little old me, I have no idea. Which probably makes me stupid becomes I sometimes converse with that sentience (mostly a one-way conversation of course ). But when I do, it's like talking to the whole universe. There you go, that will give you something to have a crack at.

[LesJambes]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

If your "you" is the generic "one" then fair enough. If it is directed at me then I should tell you that you've picked me up wrong. I don't have a god and I certainly wouldn't have one that involved some sort of "hell". And at no point have I talked about mocking a god, just mocking people's beliefs. I think that the universe in general may possess some form of sentience but whether it does, or in fact is even aware of little old me, I have no idea. Which probably makes me stupid becomes I sometimes converse with that sentience (mostly a one-way conversation of course ). But when I do, it's like talking to the whole universe. There you go, that will give you something to have a crack at.

No sorry, 'you' wasn't directed at you personally, it's just the way I sound things out sometimes.

As far as mocking goes it depends on the individual. If someone is kind and respectful of others as you've been then I'll give them the same courtesy. However if it's the Westboro Baptist church shouting at soldiers funerals, I'll show them the same lack of respect they have for others. Safely behind my computer though of course! As for the latter, I think we all do that. I really screwed myself up when I was younger believing I was cursed, and everything was designed to **** me over. Somewhat of a self-centred view to take but that's how I felt. I'm still trying to shake off that negative attitude if I'm honest.

[redjambo]

27 minutes ago, LesJambes said:

I both agree and disagree here, the belief does cause harm. For example if a person believes a child needs to have their genitals circumcised for their religion, apart from it hurting and mutilating a child, it can also do serious permanent damage. So in that case I hold the belief directly responsible for that act. But I do agree if for example a Buddhist monk decides to bomb a temple, it's not fair to hold Buddhism responsible, because nowhere in Buddhism does it have any justification for murder. Just the opposite in fact.

 

Beliefs are not people though. we have the right to criticise bad ideas. For example I strongly dislike conservatism and fascism, to put it diplomatically. That doesn't mean I hate every single conservative and fascist, I don't even know many of them. It just means I disagree with their beliefs, as no doubt they do mine. And we both have the rights to disagree and criticise each others beliefs. Religion does not get a special pass just because you add in a skywizard. What if I make Hitlerism a religion, does nobody get to question the Nazis because now that's my religious beliefs you're offending?

 

That's a fair argument. In that case I personally would have a go at a religion's particular tenets rather than the religion in general, but in appreciation that it will be the followers of that religion's individual decision as to whether they put a particular tenet into practice. In the end, imo, it is the practice that counts.

 

In my eyes, basic human rights, independent of any religion, should underpin society. There should be no religious exemptions to human rights law - everyone should be covered and human rights should always trump religious belief.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Oh what the hell, I'll stick my nose in.

 

Some of you probably already know I'm a regular churchgoer and that my wife is a full-time minister.

 

I also have a huge number of atheist friends.

 

The thing I would like to see more from atheists when they're critiquing religion is to stop attacking the cartoonish version that gets taught to kids in grade school when there's far more to most religions.

 

I think religion of any sort always needs critique. It's when it's just lazy and silly dismissals of religion get all the time and attention that I get frustrated.

[redjambo]

3 minutes ago, LesJambes said:

No sorry, 'you' wasn't directed at you personally, it's just the way I sound things out sometimes.

As far as mocking goes it depends on the individual. If someone is kind and respectful of others as you've been then I'll give them the same courtesy. However if it's the Westboro Baptist church shouting at soldiers funerals, I'll show them the same lack of respect they have for others. Safely behind my computer though of course! As for the latter, I think we all do that. I really screwed myself up when I was younger believing I was cursed, and everything was designed to **** me over. Somewhat of a self-centred view to take but that's how I felt. I'm still trying to shake off that negative attitude if I'm honest.

 

You've obviously caught me on a good day.

 

It's completely natural that we take a self-centred view of the world. We all do to various degrees. I learned after a while though that shit happens. Good things happen too. It tends to be cyclical - when things are going well, I live for the moment; when things are going badly then I put my head down, concentrate on the little things in life (you know, flowers, sunshine, moments of kindness, that sort of thing) and wait for it to get better again (although, note to myself, being more proactive might be a good idea). It's a bit silly really, when things go well I tend to forget the little things in life, when it's going not so well I remember them again.

[deesidejambo]

Atheism itself can be viewed as a religion.

 

Religion is belief in a doctrine.    

Atheism is a doctrine.

[Sarah O]

 Absolutely ridiculous.

 

 

 

 Much more legit

[Bindy Badgy]

Have you been touched by His noodly appendage?

 

Repent sinners!

 

[Bigsmak]

2 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

Atheism itself can be viewed as a religion.

 

Religion is belief in a doctrine.    

Atheism is a doctrine.

 

Nonsense

 

Atheism is a lack of belief.

 

Atheists shouldn't even have a label. We should be 'the norm' as far as we are concerned. 

 

 

doctrine

ˈdɒktrɪn/

noun

noun: doctrine; plural noun: doctrines

1. a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a Church, political party, or other group.

   "the doctrine of predestination"

   synonyms:

   creed, credo, dogma, belief, set of beliefs, code of belief, conviction, teaching; More tenet, maxim, article of faith, canon; principle, precept, notion, idea, ideology, theory, thesis "they rejected the doctrine of the Trinity

 

At the end of the day, we shouldn't have to try and convince anyone there isn't a God or teach people that there is no God.. Atheism should be the default position.

 

If someone thinks they have a better answer than: Having no answers!  They should try and convince us of their beliefs. With evidence

[Unknown user]

18 minutes ago, Bigsmak said:

 

Nonsense

 

Atheism is a lack of belief.

 

Atheists shouldn't even have a label. We should be 'the norm' as far as we are concerned. 

 

 

doctrine

ˈdɒktrɪn/

noun

noun: doctrine; plural noun: doctrines

1. a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a Church, political party, or other group.

   "the doctrine of predestination"

   synonyms:

   creed, credo, dogma, belief, set of beliefs, code of belief, conviction, teaching; More tenet, maxim, article of faith, canon; principle, precept, notion, idea, ideology, theory, thesis "they rejected the doctrine of the Trinity

 

At the end of the day, we shouldn't have to try and convince anyone there isn't a God or teach people that there is no God.. Atheism should be the default position.

 

If someone thinks they have a better answer than: Having no answers!  They should try and convince us of their beliefs. With evidence

The word atheism isn't a label as such though, it's a description, and a good one. 'A' meaning no or none and 'theism' meaning belief system.

But yeah, I am the norm as far as I'm concerned, in this part of the world anyway!

 

[Ray Gin]

2 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

Atheism itself can be viewed as a religion.

 

Religion is belief in a doctrine.    

Atheism is a doctrine.

 

 

[jake]

9 hours ago, LesJambes said:

I can o0nly speak for myself, but it's not laughing directly at anyone, it's the silliness of the ideas themselves. One religion I frequently laugh at is Scientology, but I actually have the deepest sympathy for people who are brainwashed into that cult, and often locked up. So my mockery doesn't come from malice against individuals, except perhaps some of the charlatans who use these religions to abuse others, it comes from a disrespect of the ideology precisely because of how it can harm people.

I struggle to think id any ideology that hasn't been used to harm.

Political or religious.

 

[Der Kaiser]

I've often liked the idea of being religious. Many people get a lot of comfort through it.

 

I'm too scientifically minded to believe in a god(s). Plus I have too many questions........ Plus I touch myself to much so if there is one he is just livid at me.

 

 

Are cavemen in heaven?

Also if you lose a leg. Die many years later, is it waiting for you there? Can you reattach it?

[Unknown user]

 

10 hours ago, Ugly American said:

Oh what the hell, I'll stick my nose in.

 

Some of you probably already know I'm a regular churchgoer and that my wife is a full-time minister.

 

I also have a huge number of atheist friends.

 

The thing I would like to see more from atheists when they're critiquing religion is to stop attacking the cartoonish version that gets taught to kids in grade school when there's far more to most religions.

 

I think religion of any sort always needs critique. It's when it's just lazy and silly dismissals of religion get all the time and attention that I get frustrated.

You can't dismiss it till you've researched it - that's nonsense mate, your religion is about belief in a deity, a thing that doesn't exist. Saying that it's lazy and silly to reject religion without research just makes it easy for YOU to be dismissive of those who don't share your blind faith. If you ask me, blind faith is lazy and silly. 

 

Of course there's good in most religions but that's not enough to justify belief in some bloody deity.

[Ray Gin]

10 hours ago, Ugly American said:

The thing I would like to see more from atheists when they're critiquing religion is to stop attacking the cartoonish version that gets taught to kids in grade school when there's far more to most religions.

 

Take those bits out of the bible and stop brainwashing kids with it, then maybe we'll stop. Until then, it's open season.

[Ray Gin]

This seems like a good place to share some of these:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ray Gin]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LesJambes]

10 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

That's a fair argument. In that case I personally would have a go at a religion's particular tenets rather than the religion in general, but in appreciation that it will be the followers of that religion's individual decision as to whether they put a particular tenet into practice. In the end, imo, it is the practice that counts.

 

In my eyes, basic human rights, independent of any religion, should underpin society. There should be no religious exemptions to human rights law - everyone should be covered and human rights should always trump religious belief.

100% agree! The USA is an example of a society that prioritizes religious 'rights' over individual rights, and Scientologists can virtually imprison their members in compounds as they wish.

 

10 hours ago, Ugly American said:

Oh what the hell, I'll stick my nose in.

 

Some of you probably already know I'm a regular churchgoer and that my wife is a full-time minister.

 

I also have a huge number of atheist friends.

 

The thing I would like to see more from atheists when they're critiquing religion is to stop attacking the cartoonish version that gets taught to kids in grade school when there's far more to most religions.

 

I think religion of any sort always needs critique. It's when it's just lazy and silly dismissals of religion get all the time and attention that I get frustrated.

Well tbf atheists aren't going to critique the charity and good deeds of religion, because they don't have any issue with that. It's where religion is harmful that people begin to question it.

 

4 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

Atheism itself can be viewed as a religion.

 

Religion is belief in a doctrine.    

Atheism is a doctrine.

Well then so is not believing in fairies, or the loch ness monster. Additionally your lack of belief in mormonism, scientology, satanism, whatever Charles Mansons cult was called, those are all religions too.

 

3 hours ago, Sarah O said:

 

 Absolutely ridiculous.

 

 

 

 Much more legit

Even more legitimitter

 

2 hours ago, Stokesy said:

Have you been touched by His noodly appendage?

 

Repent sinners!

 

Sacrilege! All hail the levitating linguine monster! He is the true god of peace, and I'll kill you if you don't accept that!

 

[deesidejambo]

I think one reason threads like this appear is because it is common to conflate two entirely separate human needs: "belief" and "religion".  The two are completely separate but both are part of human existence.  When you mix the two up the problems appear, imo.

 

Belief ------

 

Refer Maslows triangle of needs and part of the pinnacle is "self-actualisation", and part of this is an acceptance that there is a purpose to existence.    In other words there is a spiritual dimension to existence that is part of the peak of individual actualisation.    Why does the human race exist at all?

 

But whether people like it or not, "belief" in things that cannot be proven is a necessity for humans to evolve.  This is why even remote tribes in deep jungles have "gods".  The Aztecs, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Hindus etc etc etc all somehow ended up with belief in things existential to that which could be proven as material.  Were they all idiots too?

 

But we are the same -

 

Some believe in God.  Some dont.

 

Some believe crop circles were made by aliens in flying saucers.    Some dont.

 

Some believe in Ickes reptilian theory.     Some dont.

 

Some believe 9/11 was an inside job.  Some dont.

 

Every person in KB will inevitably fall on one side or the other of each of the above (or a billion other examples), as already demonstrated in this thread.

 

Heres the problem - none of the above can be proven or disproven either way.     So belief of one side or the other is equally valid, whether atheists like it or not - they are simply on one side of the first one but it could be argued by Maslow that they will never reach self-actualisation.

 

You cant prove the existence of God.   And you cant prove non-existence.  But posting silly memes to take the piss out of the other side of the same coin is a sign of, imo, inability to accept there may be a reason for existence that will stop them from reaching the Maslow pinnacle.

 

Religion..................

 

Is nothing to do with belief - religion is another human requirement - humans very nature is tribal.   We evolved from apes which are strongly tribal, and human tribes are still in existence to this day, and will remain for as long as the human race exists.

 

Religion and atheism are both manifestations of this, but there are many more examples of tribal behaviour -

 

Veganism

Hearts supporting

Tories.

Icke - believers

Train-spotters

etc

etc

 

Whether we like it or not, we associate with tribal norms and forsake our own ability to think for ourselves by the collective tribal opinion - for example when there is a 50/50 tackle we try to see it in Hearts favour but the vermin supporters will see the same tackle the other way.  We often can lose "objectivity".

 

So atheism, which is collective descriptor of a group of similar ideologies is nothing more or less than a manifestation of this.     For example, if there was a discovery of a body in a grave somewhere that tied in with the existence of Jesus, those who believe in Jesus will immediately accept it as proof, whilst atheists will try to discredit it - in other words both will come from a non-objective position whether we like it or not.

 

So imo atheists can be just as blind as religious types.       But jog on posting silly memes.

 

But dont get me started on the Church, which is just a mind-control establishment to control the masses.   The Church is imo evil.