Hypothetically...

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

...would you have swapped SoH/AN Other succeeding in removing the old board and Romanov not taking over in 2004-05, given the highs and lows we've experienced since then may have been replaced by a few seasons of austerity and potentially bottom six football every season, given the cuts that needed to be made to run the club at breakeven?

 

I have to be honest and admit that I wouldn't swap the cup win or the 2nd place of 2006 for "normality" in that fashion, even looking at it with hindsight.

[Dave 1974]

A case of the lesser of two evils?

 

A bit like saying which hand do you want cut off?

[vilenin]

...would you have swapped SoH/AN Other succeeding in removing the old board and Romanov not taking over in 2004-05, given the highs and lows we've experienced since then may have been replaced by a few seasons of austerity and potentially bottom six football every season, given the cuts that needed to be made to run the club at breakeven?

 

I have to be honest and admit that I wouldn't swap the cup win or the 2nd place of 2006 for "normality" in that fashion, even looking at it with hindsight.

 

In retrospect, I'd take going to Murrayfield in a heartbeat over the farce which is our club now.

 

The Pieman was a ******, an incompetent and an arrogant and stupid arsehole, but at least you felt he was a Jambo of some sort and cared about the club - Romanov is all of that and more, except the bit about being a Jambo or caring.

[Dave 1974]

Still, i'd rather be flying along in the slip stream of the Romanov's than being Buckie injector HOBO.

 

100% FACT.

 

(for all you skunks looking in, ken likesay man)

[Jam Tarts 1874]

Yeah, Tynecastle sold to pay debts, playing in front of less than 10,000 in an empty Murrayfield, a squad of under 21's, possibly part-time and probably relegated by now, fantastic! Now where did I put that time-machine?

[Guest JamboRobbo]

...would you have swapped SoH/AN Other succeeding in removing the old board and Romanov not taking over in 2004-05, given the highs and lows we've experienced since then may have been replaced by a few seasons of austerity and potentially bottom six football every season, given the cuts that needed to be made to run the club at breakeven?

 

I have to be honest and admit that I wouldn't swap the cup win or the 2nd place of 2006 for "normality" in that fashion, even looking at it with hindsight.

 

It's a toughy. The highs of the early Burley days and the cup win I wouldn't want to give up.

 

And, I still feel, if Romanov grows a brain one day, that he still gives us more potential than any other chairman we've had for a long time.

 

But, on the other hand, he doesn't look in any danger of growing a brain anytime soon, and is currently well on the way to turning our club into a joke.

 

The management situation is inexcusable. He has had 2.5 years to sort it out, and we appear little closer now than we were back then. This is a fundamental issue, and until his views change on this, we are going nowhere IMO. If he ain't ever gonna change, we'd be as well parting ways right now for the good of HMFC.

 

And the way he seems to ignore the views of the supporters does not seem like a way to long term harmony IMO.

[Dave 1974]

Yeah, Tynecastle sold to pay debts, playing in front of less than 10,000 in an empty Murrayfield, a squad of under 21's, possibly part-time and probably relegated by now, fantastic! Now where did I put that time-machine?

 

All these 'points' you make are all subject to debate though.

 

None of them are 'facts'. Not even close.

[PTBCAL]

NO.

 

IMHO any move to MF was the beginning of the end.

 

Very disappointed in the last 2 seasons but this summer is crucial for us - although we are making the usual pigs ear of it.

[Guest casper]

In retrospect, I'd take going to Murrayfield in a heartbeat over the farce which is our club now.

 

The Pieman was a ******, an incompetent and an arrogant and stupid arsehole, but at least you felt he was a Jambo of some sort and cared about the club - Romanov is all of that and more, except the bit about being a Jambo or caring.

 

I'm with you on this.

The question I have about romanov is when is the destruction going to stop.

Ultimately we could end up in an even worse position than having to play at Murrayfield.

[Erik]

Its all if's buts and maybe's...... whats to say that 'this' isnt still the better of the two options???

 

There's no saying what could have / would have / might have happened if we'd taken the other route so to speak - as hard as it might be to believe, we might actually have ended up in an even worse predicament.

 

You can speculate either way till the cows come home - but one thing you cant do is change whats happened.

[Sherlock]

Yeah, Tynecastle sold to pay debts, playing in front of less than 10,000 in an empty Murrayfield, a squad of under 21's, possibly part-time and probably relegated by now, fantastic! Now where did I put that time-machine?

 

Tynecastle could still be sold.

 

We could still end up playing in front of less than 10,000.

 

We could end up with a squad of U-21's.

 

I can't comment on your Part-time or Relegated parts as you can't say if that would have happened one way or the other.

 

Anyway, i thought you just dealt with FACTS? At least that's what you claimed on an earlier thread today.

[pablo]

Yeah, Tynecastle sold to pay debts, playing in front of less than 10,000 in an empty Murrayfield, a squad of under 21's, possibly part-time and probably relegated by now, fantastic! Now where did I put that time-machine?

 

I thought you only dealt in facts?

[JamboAl]

Yeah, Tynecastle sold to pay debts, playing in front of less than 10,000 in an empty Murrayfield, a squad of under 21's, possibly part-time and probably relegated by now, fantastic! Now where did I put that time-machine?

 

I think a lot of people have forgotten what the alternatives to Murrayfield etc were 3 years ago. The answer - Romanov or Romanov.

Up until the last minute when Romanov came on the scene, I was quite prepared, although not particularly happy, to go to Murrayfield because realistically there was no alternative. Financially we were up the creek.

We could have gone bust and re-invented ourselves like Middlesbrough and Airdrie but that would have been a high risk strategy, especially as it would involve ground sharing or moving out of town.

[spacerjoe]

...would you have swapped SoH/AN Other succeeding in removing the old board and Romanov not taking over in 2004-05, given the highs and lows we've experienced since then may have been replaced by a few seasons of austerity and potentially bottom six football every season, given the cuts that needed to be made to run the club at breakeven?

 

I have to be honest and admit that I wouldn't swap the cup win or the 2nd place of 2006 for "normality" in that fashion, even looking at it with hindsight.

 

 

Dumping up your bird for one night with Jessica Alba? Interesting choice...

[spacerjoe]

playing in front of less than 10,000 in an empty Murrayfield

 

I'm sorry, but does that make sense to anyone else? Where is everybody sitting?!!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Dumping up your bird for one night with Jessica Alba? Interesting choice...

 

Leasing is a lot better than purchasing in some instances!

[peebles jambo]

Yeah, Tynecastle sold to pay debts, playing in front of less than 10,000 in an empty Murrayfield, a squad of under 21's, possibly part-time and probably relegated by now, fantastic! Now where did I put that time-machine?

 

 

you planning on visiting peebles

[Jam Tarts 1874]

I'm sorry, but does that make sense to anyone else? Where is everybody sitting?!!

 

It would seem empty, most educated people would understand the phrase in the context it was written.

[Jam Tarts 1874]

[/b]

 

 

you planning on visiting peebles

 

I have my TARDIS for that journey!

 

[JamboAl]

It's a toughy. The highs of the early Burley days and the cup win I wouldn't want to give up.

And, I still feel, if Romanov grows a brain one day, that he still gives us more potential than any other chairman we've had for a long time.

 

But, on the other hand, he doesn't look in any danger of growing a brain anytime soon, and is currently well on the way to turning our club into a joke.

 

The management situation is inexcusable. He has had 2.5 years to sort it out, and we appear little closer now than we were back then. This is a fundamental issue, and until his views change on this, we are going nowhere IMO. If he ain't ever gonna change, we'd be as well parting ways right now for the good of HMFC.

 

And the way he seems to ignore the views of the supporters does not seem like a way to long term harmony IMO.

 

 

Would you swap?

Yes or No?

[jamboss]

Vlad will come good in the end.....I hope!

[200milesfromgorgie]

A case of the lesser of two evils?

 

A bit like saying which hand do you want cut off?

 

LEFT!

[topcat]

All these 'points' you make are all subject to debate though.

 

None of them are 'facts'. Not even close.

 

The thread is entitled "Hypothetically..." . that should have given you a clue.

 

If we are going to be comparing actual history with some counterfactual alternative then we must accept that hard facts are going to be in short supply and any conclusions that are drawn will be built on shaky foundations of conjecture and speculation.

 

For example there's an implicit assumption in the OP that cutting costs and accepting several seasson of bad results would have allowed the club to break even.

 

However the bad results would inevitably lead to lower revenues

 

That's about as close as we're going to get on this thread to an actual FACT

 

The shrinking revenue might have exactly balanced the shrinking costs or one might outweight the other. It could be that the revenue held up well enough to allow the club to break even but that's a matter for conjecture and guesswork.

[Sherlock]

The thread is entitled "Hypothetically..." . that should have given you a clue...

 

A fair point TC, but you've got to remember...

 

...I deal in facts...

 

Only some of the time though...

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Would you swap?

Yes or No?

 

As I said, it's a toughy. It's not one I'd like to give a definitive yes or no to, given that I don't know what the future holds and I don't know what I'd be signing up to.

 

If Vlad ain't going to change his ways (which means we're going to suffer the current ****e forever more, until a point where the club is bankrupt and closed down), then yes, I'd give up a great season and a cup win to change that.

 

If Vlad is going to change his ways at some point in the short/medium term (which means we've suffered a year or four of mismanagement, a load of money we didn't have thrown down the drain etc, but crucially, only for a period of time), then no, I wouldn't swap. Because cup wins and beating one of the OF don't come along all that often. And the potential Vlads money gives us (if directed properly rather than idiotically) is greater than owners we've had in the past or are likely to have in the future.

[Dave 1974]

The thread is entitled "Hypothetically..." . that should have given you a clue.

 

If we are going to be comparing actual history with some counterfactual alternative then we must accept that hard facts are going to be in short supply and any conclusions that are drawn will be built on shaky foundations of conjecture and speculation.

 

For example there's an implicit assumption in the OP that cutting costs and accepting several seasson of bad results would have allowed the club to break even.

 

However the bad results would inevitably lead to lower revenues

 

That's about as close as we're going to get on this thread to an actual FACT

 

The shrinking revenue might have exactly balanced the shrinking costs or one might outweight the other. It could be that the revenue held up well enough to allow the club to break even but that's a matter for conjecture and guesswork.

 

One does understand the meaning of "Hypothetically..." TC.

 

The FACT that he abandoned the notion of factuality, something he has championed before, in favour of nothing more than his own personal opinion, leaves him wide open to being questioned, in my humble opinion.

[JamboAl]

As I said, it's a toughy. It's not one I'd like to give a definitive yes or no to, given that I don't know what the future holds and I don't know what I'd be signing up to.

 

If Vlad ain't going to change his ways (which means we're going to suffer the current ****e forever more, until a point where the club is bankrupt and closed down), then yes, I'd give up a great season and a cup win to change that.

 

If Vlad is going to change his ways at some point in the short/medium term (which means we've suffered a year or four of mismanagement, a load of money we didn't have thrown down the drain etc, but crucially, only for a period of time), then no, I wouldn't swap. Because cup wins and beating one of the OF don't come along all that often. And the potential Vlads money gives us (if directed properly rather than idiotically) is greater than owners we've had in the past or are likely to have in the future.

 

C'mon JR, it's unlike you to be reticent.

We do not/could not know what would happen either way but based on your best guess/belief, which would you prefer?

[topcat]

.

[Dave 1974]

And yes, if taken literaly, you've got him bang to rights for a minor contradiction but if scoring points of Jam Tarts 1874 is what you're after It may have been better to sit this one out and wait for a major piece of hypocrisy before producing Exhibit A.

 

Ach, he who hesitates, masturbates .

[Drylaw Hearts]

I regret ever having laid eyes on the sneaky little tw@t.

 

 

I don't believe there isn't a single Hearts fan who isn't fed-up with the current situation or the crap that has gone on for the past 2 years.

 

 

I'd rather watch Hearts play in a public park that be butt fecked by him any longer.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

C'mon JR, it's unlike you to be reticent.

We do not/could not know what would happen either way but based on your best guess/belief, which would you prefer?

 

I still cling to the hope that one day, Vlad comes to his senses, and we have the best of both worlds. (Vlads money, AND a properly run football club). So that is my preferred option.

 

But the longer the chaos goes on, the less I believe that Vlad is even interested in learning from his mistakes. In fact, I'm not even sure he thinks he's making any mistakes.

 

My Heart says we're better off with him. My head says we're better without him.

[Dave 1974]

I still cling to the hope that one day, Vlad comes to his senses, and we have the best of both worlds. (Vlads money, AND a properly run football club). So that is my preferred option.

 

But the longer the chaos goes on, the less I believe that Vlad is even interested in learning from his mistakes. In fact, I'm not even sure he thinks he's making any mistakes.

 

My Heart says we're better off with him. My head says we're better without him.

 

i find myself in a similar boat to you JR.

 

In reality though, two and a half years to f@@k up and leave the team alone is a hell of a long time.

[JamboAl]

I still cling to the hope that one day, Vlad comes to his senses, and we have the best of both worlds. (Vlads money, AND a properly run football club). So that is my preferred option.

 

But the longer the chaos goes on, the less I believe that Vlad is even interested in learning from his mistakes. In fact, I'm not even sure he thinks he's making any mistakes.

 

My Heart says we're better off with him. My head says we're better without him.

That's the way to do it, JR. Run with the hare and hunt with the hounds.

Gives you the freedom to moan at both ends.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

[/b]

That's the way to do it, JR. Run with the hare and hunt with the hounds.

Gives you the freedom to moan at both ends.

 

Just my opinion, and I don't think it's an unreasonable one.

[djf]

Until there is a realistic, viable alternative I wouldn't back the removal of Romanov.

 

Going to Murrayfield was only ever going to be a band-aid to the problem. What was the plan for the following 5 years? 10 years? Were we going to rent forever?

[Billy the Jambo]

Yeah, Tynecastle sold to pay debts, playing in front of less than 10,000 in an empty Murrayfield, a squad of under 21's, possibly part-time and probably relegated by now, fantastic! Now where did I put that time-machine?

 

That is where we will probably end up under the mad one so IMO he is only delaying the inevitable .In saying that we would be lucky to get Murrayfield we could ask the council to let us have a refurbished Meadowbank that will hold 5,000 that should be enough

[Drylaw Hearts]

Until there is a realistic, viable alternative I wouldn't back the removal of Romanov.

 

Going to Murrayfield was only ever going to be a band-aid to the problem. What was the plan for the following 5 years? 10 years? Were we going to rent forever?

 

At this rate we're going to be paying huge amounts in interest forever.

[magicTs]

At this rate we're going to be paying huge amounts in interest forever.

 

Don't be silly DH, as young Romaknob informed us to much hilarity at the AGM the masterplan is to sell "lots of young players for 9 million". What a farce.

[Coco]

I think that staying at Tynecastle and the Cup win outweigh every other piece of disastrous nonsense in the last 2 1/2 years.

 

I will always think that a major cost cutting programme could have let us stay at Tynecastle without inviting in an uninterested investor though.

[bighusref]

I still cling to the hope that one day, Vlad comes to his senses, and we have the best of both worlds. (Vlads money, AND a properly run football club). So that is my preferred option.

 

But the longer the chaos goes on, the less I believe that Vlad is even interested in learning from his mistakes. In fact, I'm not even sure he thinks he's making any mistakes.

 

My Heart says we're better off with him. My head says we're better without him.

 

I agree with this.

 

IMO, selling Tynecastle was never the end of the world, selling Tynecastle, renting Murrayfield and adopting a "wait and see" attitude WAS the end of the world. That is why CPR was driven out.

 

The financial stability that VR and UKIO bring us (I still maintain that as long as he is here our debt is not a huge issue) would give us a platform to really push forward and try to do something really good if he would only deal with the football club professionally.

 

Would I swap a victory for VR for a victory for CPR? No, not for a second. That does not mean that I am remotely happy with the way he is tampering with our team.

[topcat]

[/b]

That's the way to do it, JR. Run with the hare and hunt with the hounds.

Gives you the freedom to moan at both ends.

 

Presumably that means moaning out his mouth but also ...

[JamboAl]

Presumably that means moaning out his mouth but also ...

 

I'm too much of a gentleman to say........

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Presumably that means moaning out his mouth but also ...

 

who rattled your cage?

[Guest JamboRobbo]

I'm too much of a gentleman to say........

 

Aye right you are. You dish out the abuse all the time so don't bother pretending otherwise.

[JamboAl]

Aye right you are. You dish out the abuse all the time so don't bother pretending otherwise.

 

OK I'll not pretend.

Topcat said

Presumably that means moaning out his mouth but also ...

 

 

My thought were

The same thing comes out of both ends.

 

Happy now?

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Happy now?

 

about as happy as you.

[rudi]

...would you have swapped SoH/AN Other succeeding in removing the old board and Romanov not taking over in 2004-05, given the highs and lows we've experienced since then may have been replaced by a few seasons of austerity and potentially bottom six football every season, given the cuts that needed to be made to run the club at breakeven?

 

I have to be honest and admit that I wouldn't swap the cup win or the 2nd place of 2006 for "normality" in that fashion, even looking at it with hindsight.

 

Sorry GK,but that cup win hardly comes near the top ten best day's of watching Hearts.

 

By the time we had won the cup Vlad's way's of running the club were really starting to wear me down.

 

It was around about that time that my feeling's for Hearts started to change,that is when I started to see Hearts and Vlad as one,although I would never ever hate HMFC the way I hate Vlad,it just started to feel like "this isn't my club any more",so TBH I think I would still be supporting Hearts (as a ST holder) like I used to and be enjoying it more than I am right now,if Vlad wasn't here.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

So, given some people's feelings and a comment by a well-known poster on another thread, is the 2006 Cup win "devalued" in some people's eyes because it was won under Vlad's tenure?

[Sherlock]

So, given some people's feelings and a comment by a well-known poster on another thread, is the 2006 Cup win "devalued" in some people's eyes because it was won under Vlad's tenure?

 

Not at the time Geoff but i think it is being seen as 'tainted' by some.

 

Not me though. I've only seen Hearts win two trophies. There's no way i'm going to let VR spoil one of them for me.

[vilenin]

So, given some people's feelings and a comment by a well-known poster on another thread, is the 2006 Cup win "devalued" in some people's eyes because it was won under Vlad's tenure?

 

I don't know about devalued, but I didn't feel anything like the sheer joy I did when we won it under JJ.

 

Maybe that was just because we struggled to beat a team of second division journeymen having neve rhad to play either of the Old Firm on the way, or maybe it was because even then it was obvious that Romanov was taking us to the dogs, but it was a good day and no more than that.

 

I've had loads of better days supporting the Jambos (and many, many worse right enough)