Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[shaun.lawson]

3 hours ago, alfajambo said:

You have a view Shaun.

 

However, in reality the giant Euro based conglomerates see military reshaping and the implementation of the EU army as a way to maintain stability in their global interests. This is now one of the EU’s big cards. The Common European Defence Policy will further dissolve the sovereignty and democracy of nations. Not something my next-door neighbour voted for.

 

 

Given we've seen what happens when a Russian asset becomes President of the United States, and its potential consequences for NATO, I can't pretend I'm against the idea of a European Army tbh. If the day comes when we can no longer depend on the US to protect us, what do you propose we do?

 

But regardless of that, isn't it strange how since Brexit, public support for the EU has risen across the whole Union?

 

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20181016IPR16213/brexit-effect-public-opinion-survey-shows-that-eu-is-more-appreciated-than-ever

 

All these people in the EU, perfectly content with how things are. This enlightenment of yours about its true intentions has mysteriously been denied to hundreds of millions of others. I can't possibly imagine why. 

[Francis Albert]

39 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Given we've seen what happens when a Russian asset becomes President of the United States, and its potential consequences for NATO, I can't pretend I'm against the idea of a European Army tbh. If the day comes when we can no longer depend on the US to protect us, what do you propose we do?

 

But regardless of that, isn't it strange how since Brexit, public support for the EU has risen across the whole Union?

 

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20181016IPR16213/brexit-effect-public-opinion-survey-shows-that-eu-is-more-appreciated-than-ever

 

All these people in the EU, perfectly content with how things are. This enlightenment of yours about its true intentions has mysteriously been denied to hundreds of millions of others. I can't possibly imagine why. 

A poll conducted by an agency of the European Parliament. Like the related EU Commission's "barometer" surveys I have yett to come across anything that they publish that is not straight propaganda for the benefits of the EU and EU membership.

The fact is that at the same time this poll was conducted the Eurosceptic vote in real elections was growing almost everywhere in the EU. But as we know the EU has never paid much attention to real votes.

Edited December 9, 2018 by Francis Albert

[shaun.lawson]

7 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

A poll conducted by an agency of the European Parliament. Like the related EU Commission's "barometer" surveys I have yett to come across anything that they publish that is not straight propaganda for the benefits of the EU and EU membership.

The fact is that at the same time this poll was conducted the Eurosceptic vote in real elections was growing almost everywhere in the EU. But as we know the EU has never paid much attention to real votes.

 

France: the very pro-Europe Macron won easily

 

Spain: the very pro-Europe socialists are now in power

 

Portugal: the very pro-Europe socialists are now in power

 

Germany: AfD didn't do remotely as well as feared. You know who are rising there now? The Greens. But y'know, it doesn't chill the blood, so the media haven't mentioned it.

 

UK: Remainers flocked to Labour, giving them their greatest increase in share of the vote since 1945.

 

The surveys I linked to are entirely open when support falls anywhere. Indeed, surveys and the press across the EU are far more trusted than in one place I could care to mention. Care to guess what that country is?

[Francis Albert]

23 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

France: the very pro-Europe Macron won easily

 

Spain: the very pro-Europe socialists are now in power

 

Portugal: the very pro-Europe socialists are now in power

 

Germany: AfD didn't do remotely as well as feared. You know who are rising there now? The Greens. But y'know, it doesn't chill the blood, so the media haven't mentioned it.

 

UK: Remainers flocked to Labour, giving them their greatest increase in share of the vote since 1945.

 

The surveys I linked to are entirely open when support falls anywhere. Indeed, surveys and the press across the EU are far more trusted than in one place I could care to mention. Care to guess what that country is?

Nothing you say actually contradicts what I posted. In fact your post  reads exactly like a bit of gung ho EU/Remain propaganda of the sort your sources specialise in..

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2018 by Francis Albert

[shaun.lawson]

4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Nothing you say actually contradicts what I posted. In fact your post  reads exactly like a bit of gung ho EU/Remain propaganda of the sort your sources specialise in..

 

 

 

 

Pardon? Election results - actual election results - are 'propaganda' in your world now?

 

Wibble wibble I'm a hatstand.

[SE16 3LN]

25 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

France: the very pro-Europe Macron won easily

 

Spain: the very pro-Europe socialists are now in power

 

Portugal: the very pro-Europe socialists are now in power

 

Germany: AfD didn't do remotely as well as feared. You know who are rising there now? The Greens. But y'know, it doesn't chill the blood, so the media haven't mentioned it.

 

UK: Remainers flocked to Labour, giving them their greatest increase in share of the vote since 1945.

 

The surveys I linked to are entirely open when support falls anywhere. Indeed, surveys and the press across the EU are far more trusted than in one place I could care to mention. Care to guess what that country is?

France: 10 million people voted for a fascist, Macron is considering martial law in parts of the country as his popularity drops to 26%

Spain: The Socialist govt. has about 25% of the seats in parliament, another election is looming and a large part of the country wants to leave Spain

Portugal: I'll give you although the Govt. is heading for a huge collision with the EU over public spending

Germany: Precarious coalition riddled with euro sceptics, 13% voted for an openly racist party and U turn forced over open borders policy by public opinion

UK: Voted to leave in a fair and democratic referendum

[Francis Albert]

4 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Pardon? Election results - actual election results - are 'propaganda' in your world now?

 

Wibble wibble I'm a hatstand.

No your interpretation of them is.

For example your statement that remainers flocked to labour, a party whose manifesto was committed to leave, is apparently in your eyes evidence that of a pro-EU swing. Or that eoroscepticism is on the wane. "Flocking"  to Lib Dems, Greens and SNP, the parties opposing leave, would surely have been more positive evidence.

[jake]

37 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

France: the very pro-Europe Macron won easily

 

Spain: the very pro-Europe socialists are now in power

 

Portugal: the very pro-Europe socialists are now in power

 

Germany: AfD didn't do remotely as well as feared. You know who are rising there now? The Greens. But y'know, it doesn't chill the blood, so the media haven't mentioned it.

 

UK: Remainers flocked to Labour, giving them their greatest increase in share of the vote since 1945.

 

The surveys I linked to are entirely open when support falls anywhere. Indeed, surveys and the press across the EU are far more trusted than in one place I could care to mention. Care to guess what that country is?

Wow.

 

[shaun.lawson]

2 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

France: 10 million people voted for a fascist, Macron is considering martial law in parts of the country as his popularity drops to 26%

Spain: The Socialist govt. has about 25% of the seats in parliament, another election is looming and a large part of the country wants to leave Spain

Portugal: I'll give you although the Govt. is heading for a huge collision with the EU over public spending

Germany: Precarious coalition riddled with euro sceptics, 13% voted for an openly racist party and U turn forced over open borders policy by public opinion

UK: Voted to leave in a fair and democratic referendum

 

13% voted for an openly racist party in Germany? Big deal. 13% voted UKIP in 2015. No real difference tbh.

 

And sure, Germany has a precarious coalition. That's how their system works. Ditto, increasingly, Spain: a four-party system, in which none of them want to leave the EU or euro.

 

As for France: Le Pen's dad reached the run-off in 2002 as well. And just like her, was subsequently crushed. We're a long, long way away from fascism actually being electable there. Not least because the protests - which are a whole mix of things, including the far right - are more than likely putting people off.

 

And on the UK's 'free and fair referendum': would that be the same referendum in which Leave broke electoral law, the eminence grise of Leave.EU is under police investigation, and in which Russia interfered just as they did in the US? Funny kind of 'free and fair' in which the law is broken all over the place.

 

 

[shaun.lawson]

7 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

No your interpretation of them is.

For example your statement that remainers flocked to labour, a party whose manifesto was committed to leave, is apparently in your eyes evidence that of a pro-EU swing. Or that eoroscepticism is on the wane. "Flocking"  to Lib Dems, Greens and SNP, the parties opposing leave, would surely have been more positive evidence.

 

Not under our electoral system it wouldn't. Voting Lib Dem or Green is a wasted vote. Finally, at long bloody last, enough people woke up to that. Had they instead voted Lib Dem or Green and split the left, we'd now be facing a no deal Brexit.

Edited December 9, 2018 by shaun.lawson

[ri Alban]

54 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

A poll conducted by an agency of the European Parliament. Like the related EU Commission's "barometer" surveys I have yett to come across anything that they publish that is not straight propaganda for the benefits of the EU and EU membership.

The fact is that at the same time this poll was conducted the Eurosceptic vote in real elections was growing almost everywhere in the EU. But as we know the EU has never paid much attention to real votes.

The US moan about others not paying their way with Nato and how they have to defend the whole world. Then the EU say, ok we'll defend ourselves, and people lose their shit. You do know the UK forces are just the same as a would be EU army. 

[jake]

4 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

 

And on the UK's 'free and fair referendum': would that be the same referendum in which Leave broke electoral law, the eminence grise of Leave.EU is under police investigation, and in which Russia interfered just as they did in the US? Funny kind of 'free and fair' in which the law is broken all over the place.

 

 

I have to laugh .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36534192

 

Then the Russian thing comes up again.

 

Couple of facebook trolls wipe the floor with mainstream media.

 

Wobble wobble hatstand

[ri Alban]

5 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

13% voted for an openly racist party in Germany? Big deal. 13% voted UKIP in 2015. No real difference tbh.

 

And sure, Germany has a precarious coalition. That's how their system works. Ditto, increasingly, Spain: a four-party system, in which none of them want to leave the EU or euro.

 

As for France: Le Pen's dad reached the run-off in 2002 as well. And just like her, was subsequently crushed. We're a long, long way away from fascism actually being electable there. Not least because the protests - which are a whole mix of things, including the far right - are more than likely putting people off.

 

And on the UK's 'free and fair referendum': would that be the same referendum in which Leave broke electoral law, the eminence grise of Leave.EU is under police investigation, and in which Russia interfered just as they did in the US? Funny kind of 'free and fair' in which the law is broken all over the place.

 

 

It always amazes me Shaun, when folk quote stats like 13% voted for openly racist parties that they never quote 87% voted against.

[Francis Albert]

1 minute ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Not under our electoral system it wouldn't. Voting Lib Dem or Green is a wasted vote. Finally, at long bloody last, enough people woke up to that.

Again that wasn't the point.

You know when you posted Pamela Anderson's article I was going to paraphrase an old saying (I think related to performing dogs) on the lines "the surprise is not that that they don't do it very well but they do it at all". But actually Pamela showed a better grasp of the reality of the EU project than you now seem to, at least since  your Damascene conversion in the last couple of years.

[jake]

6 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Not under our electoral system it wouldn't. Voting Lib Dem or Green is a wasted vote. Finally, at long bloody last, enough people woke up to that. Had they instead voted Lib Dem or Green and split the left, we'd now be facing a no deal Brexit.

Voting leave was a wasted vote because it won't be allowed to happen.

[ri Alban]

Just now, jake said:

Voting leave was a wasted vote because it won't be allowed to happen.

Who's stopping it. The government just leaves 

[SE16 3LN]

7 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

13% voted for an openly racist party in Germany? Big deal. 13% voted UKIP in 2015. No real difference tbh.

 

And sure, Germany has a precarious coalition. That's how their system works. Ditto, increasingly, Spain: a four-party system, in which none of them want to leave the EU or euro.

 

As for France: Le Pen's dad reached the run-off in 2002 as well. And just like her, was subsequently crushed. We're a long, long way away from fascism actually being electable there. Not least because the protests - which are a whole mix of things, including the far right - are more than likely putting people off.

 

And on the UK's 'free and fair referendum': would that be the same referendum in which Leave broke electoral law, the eminence grise of Leave.EU is under police investigation, and in which Russia interfered just as they did in the US? Funny kind of 'free and fair' in which the law is broken all over the place.

 

 

FFS Shaun, its what people are feeling, its their opinions. There is a huge amount of opposition across Europe and the EU leadership, like you, are sticking their fingers in their ears and singing the Teletubbies theme tune. For it or against it, it is incredibly ignorant to deny it.

[shaun.lawson]

5 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

It always amazes me Shaun, when folk quote stats like 13% voted for openly racist parties that they never quote 87% voted against.

 

Precisely. And how 13% voting for a racist party translates into massive proportions of Germany (or any other EU member except the UK) wanting to leave is beyond me. 

[shaun.lawson]

8 minutes ago, jake said:

I have to laugh .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36534192

 

I also have to laugh. That Leave broke electoral law isn't an allegation. It's fact.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44856992

[shaun.lawson]

4 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

FFS Shaun, its what people are feeling, its their opinions. There is a huge amount of opposition across Europe and the EU leadership, like you, are sticking their fingers in their ears and singing the Teletubbies theme tune. For it or against it, it is incredibly ignorant to deny it.

 

Where is this 'huge amount of opposition', expressed as wanting to leave the EU? Where is it? 13% doesn't and will never cut it.

 

If there was this 'huge amount of opposition', Macron, coming from nowhere, wouldn't have hammered Le Pen so easily. If there was this 'huge amount of opposition', Syriza and Podemos wouldn't be shared shitless of even suggesting their countries should leave the euro or the EU (so naturally, neither have). If there was this 'huge amount of opposition', Britain wouldn't have expressed an electoral verdict last year which involved a softer version of Brexit: repudiating May's ridiculous interpretation of 52-48.

 

Is there plenty of frustration with the EU? Yes, absolutely: acknowledged by the surveys I linked to above, which Francis - who dismissed them as 'propaganda' - presumably didn't even read. Has that frustration translated into swathes of any other member state wanting to leave? No. 

[shaun.lawson]

11 minutes ago, jake said:

Voting leave was a wasted vote because it won't be allowed to happen.

 

We are leaving the EU on March 29 next year. You broke it, you own it.

[SE16 3LN]

14 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

It always amazes me Shaun, when folk quote stats like 13% voted for openly racist parties that they never quote 87% voted against.

Does it aye? 

[jake]

9 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

We are leaving the EU on March 29 next year. You broke it, you own it.

Bet we won't.

 

 

[jake]

28 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Who's stopping it. The government just leaves 

May can't get her car crash deal through.

How could she .

 

What's next ?

No deal won't be accepted by parliament.

 

It's like all votes about EU membership.

There will be another referendum Aussie.

Until we get the right result.

And that's my point about Scottish independence.

Except you would be making the opposite arguments.

And that will be pointed out by unionists.

[JudyJudyJudy]

On 08/12/2018 at 03:19, shaun.lawson said:

 

Noted. I think you're almost certainly right. 

 

For the record, I think young people today are more resilient than their elders. Quite a lot more. They face a far more uncertain, challenging world than the previous two generations. We'll never agree on that, and that's fine.

 

I went way too far in my post earlier, and apologise for that, genuinely. But purely on the subject of home ownership, I'll never accept that an inability to perform the most elementary maths imaginable on your part is a "difference of opinion" at all. House prices have shot up astronomically over the last 30 years; wages have not. And that house prices would shoot up astronomically was precisely Thatcher's offer to the middle and some of the working class: "Wages don't matter any more. Your property wealth and your credit rating does".

 

Leaving us now where we are. But that's a separate point - and the assumption I made earlier was indeed offensive, and very unfair. 

Very true

[JackLadd]

I think this parliament are going to ignore the referendum and keep us in this eu mare. We could get a pm Jeremy out of this also with the likes of Abbott and Thornberry in charge. Krankie will tell her sheep that we need Brussels as our masters and they'll swallow it like a seagull downing a chip.

[jake]

2 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

I think this parliament are going to ignore the referendum and keep us in this eu mare. We could get a pm Jeremy out of this also with the likes of Abbott and Thornberry in charge. Krankie will tell her sheep that we need Brussels as our masters and they'll swallow it like a seagull downing a chip.

? 

Seagull bit

[jake]

40 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

I also have to laugh. That Leave broke electoral law isn't an allegation. It's fact.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44856992

https://capx.co/the-problem-with-claiming-facebook-ads-or-overspending-caused-brexit/

 

And again I have to laugh

[shaun.lawson]

5 minutes ago, jake said:

https://capx.co/the-problem-with-claiming-facebook-ads-or-overspending-caused-brexit/

 

And again I have to laugh

 

CrapX is your source? Again I have to laugh.

 

If political advertising didn't change people's votes, Jake, nobody would do it. And they sure as heck wouldn't break the law in doing it. The same goes for all advertising and all marketing. 

[SE16 3LN]

45 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Where is this 'huge amount of opposition', expressed as wanting to leave the EU? Where is it? 13% doesn't and will never cut it.

 

If there was this 'huge amount of opposition', Macron, coming from nowhere, wouldn't have hammered Le Pen so easily. If there was this 'huge amount of opposition', Syriza and Podemos wouldn't be shared shitless of even suggesting their countries should leave the euro or the EU (so naturally, neither have). If there was this 'huge amount of opposition', Britain wouldn't have expressed an electoral verdict last year which involved a softer version of Brexit: repudiating May's ridiculous interpretation of 52-48.

 

Is there plenty of frustration with the EU? Yes, absolutely: acknowledged by the surveys I linked to above, which Francis - who dismissed them as 'propaganda' - presumably didn't even read. Has that frustration translated into swathes of any other member state wanting to leave? No. 

Astounding, 13% of people went out and put a cross in the box saying I'm a racist and you dismiss it. This in a country where the holocaust happened in living memory. Of course far more than that are Eurosceptic. Bash on and ignore the rise of the far right across Europe. History demonstrates that that's a foolish position to take.

[shaun.lawson]

8 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Astounding, 13% of people went out and put a cross in the box saying I'm a racist and you dismiss it. This in a country where the holocaust happened in living memory. Of course far more than that are Eurosceptic. Bash on and ignore the rise of the far right across Europe. History demonstrates that that's a foolish position to take.

 

I find a figure of 13% reassuring, quite frankly. For most of my life, with no statistical evidence admittedly, I've assumed that about one in five people are racist. 

 

I'm ignoring nothing. It's you that's hyping something which, other than in certain parts of Eastern Europe and Italy, is nothing like as serious as you're making it out to be. 

 

The AfD scored 13%. The German Green Party are currently polling at 22%. Could you tell me where that fits into your thesis of doom... or is it just not convenient to your narrative?

Edited December 9, 2018 by shaun.lawson

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Where is this 'huge amount of opposition', expressed as wanting to leave the EU? Where is it? 13% doesn't and will never cut it.

 

If there was this 'huge amount of opposition', Macron, coming from nowhere, wouldn't have hammered Le Pen so easily. If there was this 'huge amount of opposition', Syriza and Podemos wouldn't be shared shitless of even suggesting their countries should leave the euro or the EU (so naturally, neither have). If there was this 'huge amount of opposition', Britain wouldn't have expressed an electoral verdict last year which involved a softer version of Brexit: repudiating May's ridiculous interpretation of 52-48.

 

Is there plenty of frustration with the EU? Yes, absolutely: acknowledged by the surveys I linked to above, which Francis - who dismissed them as 'propaganda' - presumably didn't even read. Has that frustration translated into swathes of any other member state wanting to leave? No. 

The presentation is propaganda. And I can't see how anyone could possibly deny that or even be surprised by it given the source of and funding for this work.

Dissent from a rosy view  is acknowledged, usually  in the small print as something on which more work has to be done, usually accompanied by a "but on other hand" positive.

 

The style is a bit reminiscent of the leaflet distributed at £9m taxpayers expense by the UK governmemt at the beginning of the referendum campaign (or rather just before the beginning,  to avoid electoral spending rules)).

Edited December 9, 2018 by Francis Albert

[SE16 3LN]

3 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

I find a figure of 13% reassuring, quite frankly. For most of my life, with no statistical evidence admittedly, I've assumed that about one in five people are racist. 

 

I'm ignoring nothing. It's you that's hyping something which, other than in certain parts of Eastern Europe and Italy, is nothing like as serious as you're making it out to be. 

 

The AfD scored 13%. The German Green Party are currently polling 22%. Could you tell me where that fits into your thesis of doom... or is it just not convenient to your narrative?

Reassured by racism? Really

 

Doom, from he original Brexit doom monger.

 

Stop Shaun

[jake]

21 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

CrapX is your source? Again I have to laugh.

 

If political advertising didn't change people's votes, Jake, nobody would do it. And they sure as heck wouldn't break the law in doing it. The same goes for all advertising and all marketing. 

Have you watched BBC news C4 news or newsnight lately Shaun?

 

[shaun.lawson]

10 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Reassured by racism? Really

 

Doom, from he original Brexit doom monger.

 

Stop Shaun

 

Reassured by low levels of racism. If you're waiting for some utopian day when 0% of people are racist, you'll be waiting a very long time.

 

And you still haven't responded about the Greens. 22% is, last I checked, a rather bigger figure than 13%.

 

5 minutes ago, jake said:

Have you watched BBC news C4 news or newsnight lately Shaun?

 

 

C4? Sure. The other two, full of appalling Brexit and Tory bias? Nah. The BBC are now so irredeemably biased that they described a day on which she lost not one, not two, but three votes in Parliament - including her government being found in contempt of it - as "a good day for Theresa May".

Edited December 9, 2018 by shaun.lawson

[jake]

29 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

CrapX is your source? Again I have to laugh.

 

If political advertising didn't change people's votes, Jake, nobody would do it. And they sure as heck wouldn't break the law in doing it. The same goes for all advertising and all marketing. 

Is any of the article wrong?

 

Here's another piece from my crap source .

Feel free to dispute any of the article. 

https://capx.co/remain-not-leave-had-an-unfair-advantage-in-the-eu-referendum/

[jake]

My crap source says 27 million government leaflets were delivered urging a remain vote.

Plus 9.3 million pounds were spent by the government also urging a remain vote.

According to studies the leaflets had a 3% swing to remain amongst voters and 6% amongst Torie voters.

 

 

[jake]

As for the BBC.

Out of 4000 plus guests on the today programme in relation to the EU only 140 were brexiteers.

And of those 140 only 2% from the left perspective.

N8ce and handy to paint leave voters a right wing racist Torie types.

There is some more stats if you want Shaun.

 

Don't  want to go all wobbly wobbly but brexit won't happen.

Because it won't be allowed to.

 

Edited December 9, 2018 by jake

[shaun.lawson]

27 minutes ago, jake said:

My crap source says 27 million government leaflets were delivered urging a remain vote.

Plus 9.3 million pounds were spent by the government also urging a remain vote.

According to studies the leaflets had a 3% swing to remain amongst voters and 6% amongst Torie voters.

 

 

 

The electoral commission fined Leave £61,000 and referred it to the police.

 

The electoral commission fined Remain £1,250 for a minor indiscretion. 

 

If you could show me where the government broke the law - leaflets at an election, whatever next? Will someone think of the children? - that'd be grand.

[shaun.lawson]

 

 

Delightful. 

[jake]

8 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

The electoral commission fined Leave £61,000 and referred it to the police.

 

The electoral commission fined Remain £1,250 for a minor indiscretion. 

 

If you could show me where the government broke the law - leaflets at an election, whatever next? Will someone think of the children? - that'd be grand.

I didn't say any law had been broken.

Just countering your assertion that leave had the advantage in the propaganda war.

Clearly remain did and still does.

Would you not agree given the facts

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

 

Delightful. 

Love the reference to "a line of police leading the march forward", as if in support rather than controlling.

Meanwhile in the EU Macron has flooded Paris and other cities with police and military and they are "pre-emptively arresting" people.

As for the noose - there are "delightful" morons at Tynecastle too.

Edited December 9, 2018 by Francis Albert

[Francis Albert]

And why has this little no-mark Tommy Robinson suddenly become a national political figure, all over the front page of the Guardian and other papers and media?

Not to discredit the people who voted the wrong way in a supposedly democratic vote surely?

 

[The Mighty Thor]

11 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

And why has this little no-mark Tommy Robinson suddenly become a national political figure, all over the front page of the Guardian and other papers and media?

Not to discredit the people who voted the wrong way in a supposedly democratic vote surely?

 

Tommy Robinson is a poster boy for the kind of people who thought Farage was some sort of sage protecting us from the hoardes of marauding Romanians/Bulgarians/Turks. 

He'll strike a chord with the little Englanders who voted Leave for that very reason. 

Farage is on the comeback trail too. 

 

Warm ale-tastic.

[Francis Albert]

28 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Tommy Robinson is a poster boy for the kind of people who thought Farage was some sort of sage protecting us from the hoardes of marauding Romanians/Bulgarians/Turks. 

He'll strike a chord with the little Englanders who voted Leave for that very reason. 

Farage is on the comeback trail too. 

 

Warm ale-tastic.

Thanks. You confirm my suspicions about his sudden fame and OTT publicity. Painted as a "poster boy" for Leave voters - by Remain supporters. 

[The Mighty Thor]

15 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Thanks. You confirm my suspicions about his sudden fame and OTT publicity. Painted as a "poster boy" for Leave voters - by Remain supporters. 

 

I don't imagine anyone in the remain camp needs to do a hell of a lot when it comes to helmets like Farage or Robinson. It appears Brexit might not mean Brexit and that'll attract the rats and mice as someone needs to give voice to what people were promised (sic). 

No doubt Boris will reappear soon as a more acceptable face of the same shtick as these other two goons.

 

 

[shaun.lawson]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

And why has this little no-mark Tommy Robinson suddenly become a national political figure, all over the front page of the Guardian and other papers and media?

Not to discredit the people who voted the wrong way in a supposedly democratic vote surely?

 

 

Nope. He's doing that all by himself. You'll have to ask the media why they have him front, left and centre all the time. The same media did precisely the same thing with Farage, the man who lost seven elections and is a person of interest for the FBI, but was treated like some all-conquering hero.

 

My favourite bit from Robinson in recent weeks? When he held some latter-day Nuremberg Rally outside the High Court in front of journalists and supporters to complain he was being "silenced", before being whisked off for a banquet in his honour at the House of Lords. True man of the people is Yaxley-Lennon.

[shaun.lawson]

3 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

I don't imagine anyone in the remain camp needs to do a hell of a lot when it comes to helmets like Farage or Robinson. It appears Brexit might not mean Brexit and that'll attract the rats and mice as someone needs to give voice to what people were promised (sic). 

No doubt Boris will reappear soon as a more acceptable face of the same shtick as these other two goons.

 

 

 

Correct. 

[shaun.lawson]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Meanwhile in the EU Macron has flooded Paris and other cities with police and military and they are "pre-emptively arresting" people.

 

Couldn't agree more on that. Shades of the Spanish police a year ago, only this time it's worse. A lot worse. I do think there's plenty we don't know about the protests: the far right seem to be involved, and they can't be allowed bring the whole country to a standstill.

 

But the level of violent overreaction is disgusting. Not only that - but in what it'll do to Macron's support levels, it's nuts.

Edited December 9, 2018 by shaun.lawson

[shaun.lawson]

Arrogant dickhead (and I don't mean the kid).

 

 

Edited December 9, 2018 by shaun.lawson