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Brexit Negotiations

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jake
1 minute ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

I've never tried to hide it. Genuinely surprised it took someone so long to find it.

How I wish you still held those truths and principles .

 

Ya wee traitor😉

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Martin_T
6 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

JAKE: I voted for Brexit for my own, good reasons. Don't make out I'm some total thicko!

 

REMAINER: What were those reasons Jake?

 

JAKE: *Gives a bunch of nonsensical reasons*

 

REMAINER: These reasons make no sense. Can you explain?

 

JAKE: Don't talk down to me you snob!

 

JAKE: *Suggests education is elitist*

 

REMAINER: Jake, education for all is not elitist!

 

JAKE: STFU you arrogant, sneering liberal! We must leave with no deal now!

 

REMAINER: Jake, leaving with no deal is not a good idea.

 

JAKE: Project Fear again is it? Lying again. You don't live in the real world!

 

REMAINER: No Jake. It's Project Fact. For the following reasons...

 

JAKE: Hahaha unicorns cake wibble

 

REMAINER: Jake, can you at least engage with the points being made?

 

JAKE: I AM SO SICK OF THESE SNOBS

 

And round, and round, and round we go. 

 

Pretty accurate tbf.

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Sarah O
2 hours ago, Victorian said:

 

Let's not forget that these Scottish Tory MPs were elected on a bogus anti-independence ticket.     Voted for by utter fools,   so hysteric at the notion of independence that they were fooled into believing that voting Tory at a general election would have a practical effect on the SNP's roadmap to independence.

As long as we can sing about being up to oor knees in Fenian blood tho. :jj_facepalm:

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Francis Albert
5 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Haha, brain fart on my part. I have these more as I get older. It's very worrying. :(

 

What I should've said above is that Switzerland is part of Schengen. 

That doesn't really work in your post does it? But as I know failing to make sense is another symptom of getting older!

Our original exchange was about the Irish border for which Schengen is irrelevant. Neither Ireland nor the UK belong but our own little mini-Schengen has existed since the Free State and Republic were established and long before either of us joined the EU.. 

And will continue beyond Brexit in the increasingly unlikely event it happens.

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alfajambo
1 hour ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

I've never tried to hide it. Genuinely surprised it took someone so long to find it.

To search within the hours past, your pockets overflow.

Here a lost narrative from Bamber Gascoigne’s top one hundred tunes saturates the Germanium and Silicon.

A place where, Monnk De-Wally De-Honk, Kendal Mint Cake and the other 98 luminary captains all vote Ben Franklin.

 

 

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alfajambo
39 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

 And will continue beyond Brexit in the increasingly unlikely event it happens.

 

I don’t see how Brexit can happen now.

We face a created inability to remove ourselves from the entity we never directly voted into life.

When the can falls, deeper integration is an inevitability. A mutually exclusive scenario to leave.

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Thunderstruck
4 hours ago, Victorian said:

 

All of them represent seats were the referendum result was to remain.     So much for Theresa May's clarion call for MPs to listen to their constituents.

 

Oh forgot... that only applied to opponents to her plan.

 

Nobody knows which seats voted which way unless a constituency and a council area shared exactly the same boundary. 

 

There are estimates and extrapolations (for example, the Hanratty estimate or the BBC analysis based on sampling of wards) but the vote simply wasn’t measured by Westminster constituency. 

 

If you assume an even distribution of Leave/Remain across a Council area, you might be able to say that Council result = Constituency result but I think we all know that many Council areas are quite diverse. 

 

If we look at this on a larger scale, we know that 1m Scots voted to Leave and, among them, an estimated 400k SNP voters. Are they being represented by their elected representatives or is this an example of where the democratic process, flawed as it is, is being upheld?

 

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shaun.lawson
48 minutes ago, alfajambo said:

To search within the hours past, your pockets overflow.

 

Here a lost narrative from Bamber Gascoigne’s top one hundred tunes saturates the Germanium and Silicon.

 

A place where, Monnk De-Wally De-Honk, Kendal Mint Cake and the other 98 luminary captains all vote Ben Franklin.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Would you believe I have a slab of Kendal Mint Cake in my drawer? :laugh: Ordered it online from an expat superstore.

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shaun.lawson
59 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

That doesn't really work in your post does it? But as I know failing to make sense is another symptom of getting older!

Our original exchange was about the Irish border for which Schengen is irrelevant. Neither Ireland nor the UK belong but our own little mini-Schengen has existed since the Free State and Republic were established and long before either of us joined the EU.. 

And will continue beyond Brexit in the increasingly unlikely event it happens.

 

It will indeed - but it also poses a problem. Ireland has freedom of movement but the UK is leaving freedom of movement. Ireland's in the customs union, therefore Northern Ireland must be too. And if Northern Ireland remains part of the single market, Britain not being part of it will cause obvious difficulties. 

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alfajambo
12 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Would you believe I have a slab of Kendal Mint Cake in my drawer? :laugh: Ordered it online from an expat superstore.

 

I voted to leave.

May’s deal is a shocker.  Of the two ‘Remain’ is the better option.

Today I have no idea who I would want to vote for in the next GE.

This is some mess we are in.

Adios amigo.

Edited by alfajambo

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alfajambo
23 hours ago, Ulysses said:

trouble_brewing_backstop_session_ipa.jpg

 

23 hours ago, Ulysses said:

trouble_brewing_backstop_session_ipa.jpg

Looking to the future, how many years do you see passing before Ireland is unified?

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shaun.lawson

DtvznM4W4AEwhm6.jpg

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Ulysses

Backstop means backstop.

 

941.jpg?width=940&quality=85&auto=format

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ri Alban
4 hours ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Nobody knows which seats voted which way unless a constituency and a council area shared exactly the same boundary. 

 

There are estimates and extrapolations (for example, the Hanratty estimate or the BBC analysis based on sampling of wards) but the vote simply wasn’t measured by Westminster constituency. 

 

If you assume an even distribution of Leave/Remain across a Council area, you might be able to say that Council result = Constituency result but I think we all know that many Council areas are quite diverse. 

 

If we look at this on a larger scale, we know that 1m Scots voted to Leave and, among them, an estimated 400k SNP voters. Are they being represented by their elected representatives or is this an example of where the democratic process, flawed as it is, is being upheld?

 

It's 400,000 yes voters, not SNP voters. And if we go by your logic, where's the 1.6 m yes voters full autonomous state.

 

 

 

One more point, excluding the EU and RoW citizens who were banned a say in the Euref, where did the 1.4 m no voters go? Do you think 1.2m yes voters make up the 1.6 m remain vote. Na, neither do I.

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Justin Z
8 hours ago, jake said:

That you assume I have arrived at my views on brexit because of Nigel Farage and that I am unable to form my own opinion is exactly the same snobbish attitude that many on the remain side have.

 

You want to believe I'm racist thick or easily fooled.

And hold my views in contempt.

 

I am a brexit and independence voter.

I voted for both these on principle.

I vote for the green party on principle.

 

I missed no point.

Shaun like you wish to make out that only remain voters understand the vote.

And you just reiterated that in your snobbish put down about me actually educating myself.

 

 

Awful lot of assumptions built into all those assumptions. Awfully defensive for being so squeaky clean too, especially considering I didn't insinuate the half of what you've convinced yourself I have. For what it's worth, you'd be on my block list, not getting multiple replies, if I thought anything close to that was actually true.

 

You speak of voting on principle--on blind principle--barely a day after you challenged people on their wisdom. The irony of that is apparently also lost on you. But you can't get away from the group you chose to vote with. Much like someone who voted for Donald Trump on principle, there's really no reason to defend the character of the company you've chosen to keep--just live with it and maybe consider next time there can be no wisdom in such a mindless choice.

 

Edited by Justin Z

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doctor jambo

I am amazed that no-one has mounted a legal challenge to the removal of passports.

I, and my wife and kids will have our passports rescinded, and our EU citizenship removed without our consent, and in fact against our will.

This will also happen to millions of other EU citizens such as ourselves.

I am amazed this is legal.

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Mikey1874
21 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

I am amazed that no-one has mounted a legal challenge to the removal of passports.

I, and my wife and kids will have our passports rescinded, and our EU citizenship removed without our consent, and in fact against our will.

This will also happen to millions of other EU citizens such as ourselves.

I am amazed this is legal.

 

Even Jacob Rees-Mogg says guarantees should have been given to everyone straight after the Vote in 2016.

 

But the general point is the immigration system is very complex and set up to cause problems  for people. Sorry to see this is happening for you but many others affected and some are having problems now.

 

Also many people are planning to leave due to the confusion and no longer feeling welcome. People who have been here years even most of their lives. 

Edited by Mikey1874

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doctor jambo
22 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Even Jacob Rees-Mogg says guarantees should have been given to everyone straight after the Vote in 2016.

 

But the general point is the immigration system is very complex and set up to cause problems  for people. Sorry to see this is happening for you but many others affected and some are having problems now.

 

Also many people are planning to leave due to the confusion and no longer feeling welcome. People who have been here years even most of their lives. 

I'm NOT talking about the immigrants.

I was born in Scotland, as were my kids.

 

My kids were BORN as EU citizens, and have EU passports.

I have an EU passport.

We will all lose out EU citizenship AND have our passports taken off us against our will.

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AlimOzturk
17 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

I'm NOT talking about the immigrants.

I was born in Scotland, as were my kids.

 

My kids were BORN as EU citizens, and have EU passports.

I have an EU passport.

We will all lose out EU citizenship AND have our passports taken off us against our will.

 

We are in a democratic country and as a country we voted to leave the European Union. I am assuming you voted in the last general election and EU referendum. That's yours and everyones right over the age of 18. The vote never went your way nor mine. However that's the nature of democracy. Can't claim when you cast a vote or at least had the right to that your now being dragged out against will. 

 

And you won't have your passports taken off you. 

 

 

 

Edited by AlimOzturk

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Mikey1874
25 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

I'm NOT talking about the immigrants.

I was born in Scotland, as were my kids.

 

My kids were BORN as EU citizens, and have EU passports.

I have an EU passport.

We will all lose out EU citizenship AND have our passports taken off us against our will.

 

So you've just over dramatised what is a regular normal situation 

Edited by Mikey1874

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doctor jambo
8 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

We are in a democratic country and as a country we voted to leave the European Union. I am assuming you voted in the last general election and EU referendum. That's yours and everyones right over the age of 18. The vote never went your way nor mine. However that's the nature of democracy. Can't claim when you cast a vote or at least had the right to that your now being dragged out against will. 

 

And you won't have your passports taken off you. 

 

 

 

I have never seen a vote before where, if you lose, you lose your citizenship. some rights, and your passport

I am being dragged out against my will.

Most other votes are only for 5 years

This is not, its far more fundamental

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doctor jambo
3 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

So you've just over dramatised what is a regular normal situation 

How is it normal?

 

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Victorian

By the time the UK and EU are at the point of fully agreeing the future free trade treaty and other arrangements,    we could quite easily be around 5-6 years down the line from the referendum result.      

 

It's all very well having fanciful notions of respecting the democratic will of the people but it blankly ignores the very real possibility that the peoples' will of that point in the future will be different.

 

Is it really credible that the UK population (2016) dictates the will and prospects of the UK population (2021-2) ?

 

There is a credibility deficit there and a denial of democracy for many people.

Edited by Victorian

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Victorian

She's still drooling on about having spoke to people around the country and the "overwhelming" message being that people just want to get on with Brexit.

 

Aye?

 

So you spoke to a tiny percentage of people,    quite possibly hand-picked.     Is it a credible representation of a wider public opinion?     How scientific is that?     Are you only counting the opinions of people who want your deal?     Are you only counting the opinions of leavers?     Is there any independent evidence to support you even having spoken to anyone who agrees with the plan?

 

Or is it just more lies and spin?

 

Try listening to and working with parliament on the basis of open minded good faith.     Then they might reciprocate.

Edited by Victorian

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doctor jambo
3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

She's still drooling on about having spoke to people around the country and the "overwhelming" message being that people just want to get on with Brexit.

 

Aye?

 

So you spoke to a tiny percentage of people,    quite possibly hand-picked.     Is it a credible representation of a wider public opinion?     How scientific is that?     Are you only counting the opinions of people who want your deal?     Are you only counting the opinions of leavers?     Is there any independent evidence to support you even having spoken to anyone who agrees with the plan?

 

Or is it just more lies and spin?

 

Try listening to and working with parliament on the basis of open minded good faith.     Then they might start reciprocate.

Whilst May has a reputation for "getting on and pushing through"

I think many people have mistaken this for fortitude. persistence and determination.

 

In reality its inflexibility, arrogance and bloody-mindedness.

 

She is no Thatcher (this lady is not for turning)-

I cannot stand her, a preposterous creature and an imposter as a leader

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Mikey1874
33 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

How is it normal?

 

 

Visa restrictions and waivers are common all over the world.

 

You don't know if you'll actually be affected.

 

And subject to the final deal you may be able to pay for continued personal EU citizenship. 

Edited by Mikey1874

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Victorian
2 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Whilst May has a reputation for "getting on and pushing through"

I think many people have mistaken this for fortitude. persistence and determination.

 

In reality its inflexibility, arrogance and bloody-mindedness.

 

She is no Thatcher (this lady is not for turning)-

I cannot stand her, a preposterous creature and an imposter as a leader

 

Spot on.    That is exactly right.     It's a shan Thatcher tribute act.

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doctor jambo
6 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Visa restrictions and waivers are common all over the world.

 

You don't know if you'll actually be affected.

 

And subject to the final deal you may be able to pay for continued personal EU citizenship. 

I'm talking about loss of citizenship + passport rights.

 

and re paying to continue personal EU citizenship- will I have to offer the Spanish fishing rights in my garden pond as part of that arrangement?

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Mikey1874
Just now, doctor jambo said:

I'm talking about loss of citizenship + passport rights.

 

and re paying to continue personal EU citizenship- will I have to offer the Spanish fishing rights in my garden pond as part of that arrangement?

 

What rights? Non of that has been confirmed. It's more likely it will be unchanged. 

 

Meantime here's a bit more about personal EU citizenship 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-citizenship-keep-freedom-of-movement-guy-verhofstadt-chief-negotiator-opt-in-passports-a7465271.html%3famp

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/c4fb78c0-6971-11e8-8cf3-0c230fa67aec

 

You can even join a petition 

https://www.change.org/p/do-you-want-personal-eu-citizenship-send-a-message-to-the-european-parliament

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Thunderstruck
3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

It's 400,000 yes voters, not SNP voters. And if we go by your logic, where's the 1.6 m yes voters full autonomous state.

 

 

 

One more point, excluding the EU and RoW citizens who were banned a say in the Euref, where did the 1.4 m no voters go? Do you think 1.2m yes voters make up the 1.6 m remain vote. Na, neither do I.

 

The point was about elected representatives, once elected, reflecting the views of all of their constituents and the assumption that the majority of voters in every constituency in Scotland voted to ‘Remain’. 

 

As for your last paragraph, don’t you think that ‘No’ voters would have been more likely to have voted ‘Remain’ than ‘Yes’ voters? Surely, independence is independence and being part of a Union is being part of a Union. Unless, of course, your brand of ethno-nationalism is simply the anti-English version. 

 

Speaking of ethno-nationalism, you have been able to tell us, ad nauseam, that ‘only real Scots voted Yes’. Out of interest, have you been able to further survey this ethnic grouping to determine their voting patterns in the EURef? 

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Seymour M Hersh
1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

I have never seen a vote before where, if you lose, you lose your citizenship. some rights, and your passport

I am being dragged out against my will.

Most other votes are only for 5 years

This is not, its far more fundamental

 

I never voted to become an "EU" citizen. I never voted for an EU passport.  

 

I'm still unsure how you can be classed a citizen of something that is not a country.

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jack D and coke
On 04/12/2018 at 20:54, doctor jambo said:

Or, if the media did not keep mentioning it the public would have noticed nothing at all. No price hikes, no property crash, no shortages , no anything. 

Despite everything since the vote nothing has happened. 

Our economy has grown . Life continues.   "Since the war" wtaf. Not a single life has been lost. City of London made record profits despite them all leaving for Frankfurt and Paris . U.K. Has seen record tax intake post vote and falling unemployment . I am a strong remainer, but this is utter hysterical nonsense 

Good post. The media hysterics has people losing their shit over almost everything these days. 

Like you say if you weren't beaten over the head with it nobody would notice a thing.

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XB52
33 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

As for your last paragraph, don’t you think that ‘No’ voters would have been more likely to have voted ‘Remain’ than ‘Yes’ voters?

Some of your anti-SNP/Independence posts are funny but this is pure insanity. You can't actually believe that the Unionists in Scotland didn't vote, by a huge majority, to leave the dreaded EU so the glorious Britannia can rule the waves???? 

If you do believe that then I know a Nigerian prince that would love to get in touch with you

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XB52
1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

I'm talking about loss of citizenship + passport rights.

 

and re paying to continue personal EU citizenship- will I have to offer the Spanish fishing rights in my garden pond as part of that arrangement?

I am totally against the Brexit plans, and Brexit in general, but this is a bit over the top isn't it??  You have never been a citizen of the EU so you can't lose it. And you will still have a passport no matter what happens 

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The Real Maroonblood
2 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Some of your anti-SNP/Independence posts are funny but this is pure insanity. You can't actually believe that the Unionists in Scotland didn't vote, by a huge majority, to leave the dreaded EU so the glorious Britannia can rule the waves???? 

If you do believe that then I know a Nigerian prince that would love to get in touch with you

:laugh:

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ri Alban
22 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Good post. The media hysterics has people losing their shit over almost everything these days. 

Like you say if you weren't beaten over the head with it nobody would notice a thing.

We haven't left yet. RBS has just left the UK.

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jack D and coke
26 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

We haven't left yet. RBS has just left the UK.

I’d argue even after the event if the media didn’t bludgeon everyone relentlessly people would barely notice. 

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SE16 3LN
On ‎06‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 13:04, The Mighty Thor said:

 

Xenophobic? perhaps you could indulge me by explaining that one?

 

I'm quite sure that there was a miniscule number of leave voters who voted on the basis of not wanting to be part of the capitalist superstate, however metaphorically speaking you could put them in a phone box.

 

The reality, like it or not, is the Leave campaign was fought on immigration and money, namely funding to the EU. That was and is to this day what ministers and Brexiteers batter on about. Taking back control of our borders and our money. May said it again this week. Parrot fashion.

 

I pity the misty eyed, imperialist types, the little Englanders. The world has passed them by and what we're witnessing is the death throes of that type of backward thinking. About time too.

 

 

and again, you just can't help puking your prejudice onto the pages of JKB.

 

PS. Every survey show that attitudes towards immigration are pretty much the same across the UK, including one published in the news on the very day you came out with this.

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SE16 3LN
20 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

This is a more than legitimate point of view - and is partly why I was a Leaver a year or so before the referendum. What changed my mind? Leave's lies - plus the awareness that everything you describe above is even worse in the UK, and we have a whole system which entrenches it. Not only is that system incredibly difficult to change - but the loudest Leavers want to make it worse. Much worse.

 

To put it another way: voting for something espoused by Jacob Rees-Mogg, Michael Gove and Boris Johnson in order to help the poor and trash multinational capitalism is, well, close to the definition of insanity, don't you think?

 

 

I really admire this. It's 100% consistent. Those who voted for Scottish independence (which as Scotland wanted to share sterling and therefore have its financial policy directed by the Bank of England, wasn't actually being offered), only to then vote to stay in the EU (which is likely to expect an independent Scotland to join the euro) perplex me, to put it mildly.

Welcome back Shaun

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Justin Z
20 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

This is a more than legitimate point of view - and is partly why I was a Leaver a year or so before the referendum. What changed my mind? Leave's lies - plus the awareness that everything you describe above is even worse in the UK, and we have a whole system which entrenches it. Not only is that system incredibly difficult to change - but the loudest Leavers want to make it worse. Much worse.

 

To put it another way: voting for something espoused by Jacob Rees-Mogg, Michael Gove and Boris Johnson in order to help the poor and trash multinational capitalism is, well, close to the definition of insanity, don't you think?

 

I really admire this. It's 100% consistent. Those who voted for Scottish independence (which as Scotland wanted to share sterling and therefore have its financial policy directed by the Bank of England, wasn't actually being offered), only to then vote to stay in the EU (which is likely to expect an independent Scotland to join the euro) perplex me, to put it mildly.

 

Apologies but I'm going to take this completely off-topic because I am massively curious--Shaun, am I dreaming or did you mention at some point you've had to deal with dyspraxia? I ask because well, you know you're recognisable by your rather voluminous posting style, so I'm super curious about if you've got voice recognition technology or something to help with that. I am utterly fascinated by voice recognition tech (and by AI stuff generally) so I just wanted to ask.

 

So that it's not 100% off topic, here's a link to the projected European market for voice recognition technology in the next decade, which the UK may be cut off from!

 

European $1.66 Billion Voice Recognition Forecast

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Francis Albert
1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

Good post. The media hysterics has people losing their shit over almost everything these days. 

Like you say if you weren't beaten over the head with it nobody would notice a thing.

I would extend that beyond the media to among others of course politicians.

Twice in the last few days I have heard different MPs say it "breaks their heart" that their children/nephews and nieces won't be able to travel around Europe as freely as they did. This is sheer hyperbole on at least two levels. What breaks people's hearts is young relatives becoming severely ill, or being born with a degenerative disease, or dying in a road accident. Not because they might need to show their passport slightly more often or at worse apply for a visa exemption on line. And of course it betrays appalling ignorance of what life was like before the EU, when I travelled freely around Europe and quite enjoyed the early Bond film- like experience of border guards coming on the train to check passports.

In fact although it doesn't of course break my heart I feel a wee bit sorry for those seeing only an increasingly homogenised Europe where every shopping street contains the same shops, and same chain restaurants where everyone speaks the lingua franca  (sorry France) of English, where every city you want to visit is a huge and crowded tourist trap. I am not of course saying that is down to the EU.

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doctor jambo
31 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Welcome back Shaun

Kickback herpes

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jack D and coke
25 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I would extend that beyond the media to among others of course politicians.

Twice in the last few days I have heard different MPs say it "breaks their heart" that their children/nephews and nieces won't be able to travel around Europe as freely as they did. This is sheer hyperbole on at least two levels. What breaks people's hearts is young relatives becoming severely ill, or being born with a degenerative disease, or dying in a road accident. Not because they might need to show their passport slightly more often or at worse apply for a visa exemption on line. And of course it betrays appalling ignorance of what life was like before the EU, when I travelled freely around Europe and quite enjoyed the early Bond film- like experience of border guards coming on the train to check passports.

In fact although it doesn't of course break my heart I feel a wee bit sorry for those seeing only an increasingly homogenised Europe where every shopping street contains the same shops, and same chain restaurants where everyone speaks the lingua franca  (sorry France) of English, where every city you want to visit is a huge and crowded tourist trap. I am not of course saying that is down to the EU.

Yeah agreed mate its all Americanised to feck these days. 

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doctor jambo
57 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Apologies but I'm going to take this completely off-topic because I am massively curious--Shaun, am I dreaming or did you mention at some point you've had to deal with dyspraxia? I ask because well, you know you're recognisable by your rather voluminous posting style, so I'm super curious about if you've got voice recognition technology or something to help with that. I am utterly fascinated by voice recognition tech (and by AI stuff generally) so I just wanted to ask.

 

So that it's not 100% off topic, here's a link to the projected European market for voice recognition technology in the next decade, which the UK may be cut off from!

 

European $1.66 Billion Voice Recognition Forecast

If you attempted to keep track of everything SL has purported to be during his "history" here , you would come to the conclusion it was all fabricated

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AlimOzturk
45 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Kickback herpes

 

That's out of order. No need in the personal insults. 

 

I have enjoyed his points in this thread. His posting style takes a bit of getting use to. 

 

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The Mighty Thor
1 hour ago, SE16 3LN said:

and again, you just can't help puking your prejudice onto the pages of JKB.

 

PS. Every survey show that attitudes towards immigration are pretty much the same across the UK, including one published in the news on the very day you came out with this.

Yup I'll keep on spewing my prejudice on JKB.

I have no time for the kind of person who voted to leave the EU based on the information peddled by the Mail and the Express or the likes of Johnson or Gove or Rees Mogg. The extra 350 million a week or the no more immigration nonsense.

No time whatsoever.

 

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ri Alban
2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

I’d argue even after the event if the media didn’t bludgeon everyone relentlessly people would barely notice. 

You'll notice alright.  Scottish exports have grown by 20% in one year. Oil and gas exports to the EU are now worth £8b(You know , that black worthless stuff, nobody wants to buy).  Yet NI gets to stay, while we get felt.  80000 jobs down the swanny😂, but you'll not notice. Stevie Wonder.

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shaun.lawson
17 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Yup I'll keep on spewing my prejudice on JKB.

I have no time for the kind of person who voted to leave the EU based on the information peddled by the Mail and the Express or the likes of Johnson or Gove or Rees Mogg. The extra 350 million a week or the no more immigration nonsense.

No time whatsoever.

 

 

Of course immigration played a very important role in Brexit. Vote Leave and Leave.EU wouldn't have focused on it so much if it hadn't. But the problem is you totally over-egg the pudding. You smear just about all Leave voters as having been motivated by immigration, when only some were. Not enough to win either.

 

The reason Leave won is because, against a hopeless, miserable, pathetic Remain campaign, they articulated an optimistic, positive view of 'Big World Britain'. It was short on detail, sure; it was very short on detail, in fact. But that's what made the difference in the middle, where elections are always decided.

 

The centre ground of the referendum should've been dominated by Remain. Instead, led by the same idiots who masterminded Labour and the Lib Dems' disasters in 2015, Remain offered pretty much nothing. Which is why I always thought Leave would win.

 

https://medium.com/@shaunjlawson/be-in-no-doubt-vote-leave-are-going-to-win-this-referendum-84997776e82d

 

I didn't write this piece above with any pleasure. I was horrified at the prospect of Leave's victory. But it happened because of the absolute failure of anyone representing Remain to connect with the public. Technocratic arguments will never be any substitute for people's day to day lives, or for their aspirations.

Edited by shaun.lawson

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doctor jambo
15 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

You'll notice alright.  Scottish exports have grown by 20% in one year. Oil and gas exports to the EU are now worth £8b(You know , that black worthless stuff, nobody wants to buy).  Yet NI gets to stay, while we get felt.  80000 jobs down the swanny😂, but you'll not notice. Stevie Wonder.

Wouldn't worry about it.

The EU will still buy it- Germany buys its gas from Russia and are unconcerned by their political ructions.

Business will continue unabated, oil price will rise due the "instability" of Brexit causing a shortage of nothing tangible, currency speculators and spivs will make money appear in their pockets out of nothing, then everyone continues to go about their every day.

job apocalypse wont happen

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jack D and coke
18 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

You'll notice alright.  Scottish exports have grown by 20% in one year. Oil and gas exports to the EU are now worth £8b(You know , that black worthless stuff, nobody wants to buy).  Yet NI gets to stay, while we get felt.  80000 jobs down the swanny😂, but you'll not notice. Stevie Wonder.

Na it’s only because people go on about stuff relentlessly now. On here, Twitter, Facebook, every single news programme it’s proper hammer time. 

How do you suppose Scottish indy would fare? No effects whatsoever....Just brexit that’s a nightmare is it? 

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