Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Beast Boy]

Now that I’ve accepted that the idiots of the UK have won, and that we will leave the EU, at least we’ve got this entertaining game to keep us amused. Laughing at the idiots who voted for it desperately trying to convince themselves it’ll be a good thing is brilliant. So many of them starting to realise how stupid a thing it was to do, but they still can’t bring themselves to openly admit it.

 

[Mikey1874]

10 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Legal advice is gonnae lose May her job. She'll be gone very soon.

 

The actual advice is the issue. One paragraph setting out EU can keep UK in backstop Customs Union.

[ri Alban]

25 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

The actual advice is the issue. One paragraph setting out EU can keep UK in backstop Customs Union.

Yip. She's trying to keep that quiet.

[Mikey1874]

56 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Yip. She's trying to keep that quiet.

 

Sunday Times today quoted it. They have seen the letter and confirmed it with 3 members of the Cabinet. It's going to be very hard to prevent the advice being made public. 

 

Will influence the Speaker now too who can force it to be made public. Unprecedented times. 

[Jambos_1874]

13 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

Imagine:

 

1. Not agreeing with every last word of this

 

2. Continuing to vote for these pricks.

 

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/mike-harding-reads-his-viral-letter-to-theresa-may/

 

Sums it up perfectly for me.

 

I am too young to remember what Thatcher/the Tories did to this country's heavy industry, mining etc and although I have never voted for them I didn't necessarily have a problem with them, although I disagree with most of their politics. But, Brexit has really shone a light on just how horrible and dangerous a party they are and that article captures that very well. They are a disgrace.

[The Mighty Thor]

MPs submit a letter to the Speaker requesting a motion be allowed on contempt of parliament.

 

 

[Mikey1874]

Attorney General answering questions in Parliament just now. 

 

Sticking to their position. 

[Victorian]

26 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Attorney General answering questions in Parliament just now. 

 

Sticking to their position. 

 

The theatrical chastisement of the opposition benches was beyond parody.    The arrogance and the absolute belief of being above the rule of parliament.     

 

The most important commons vote for years must be fully informed by all of the existing information.      Keeping it classified just wont do the job.     Do they really think that the cloak and dagger routine is going to win over their opponents?     Or some cartoon-like oaf telling off MPs like naughty school kids?

 

[Victorian]

The PM and currently loyal ministers have been spouting off about all of the wonderful new,  independent trade deals we'll strike after Brexit.     If only parliament would see sense and vote for the blind withdrawal deal.    It now seems that any new,  independent trade deals will never see day1 of implementation until the Brexit transition period ends.     If it ends with no trade deal with the EU and the backstop is activated,    the wonderful new,  independent trade deals will still attract existing EU tariffs... therefore not independent trade deals at all and not at all attractive for potential new,  independent trade partners.     Tariffs and blind uncertainty of deal implementation dates.     They must be falling over each other in the rush.

 

How many years of backstop arrangement will the economy suffer in until the first of these wonderful new,  independent trade deals is able to be implemented?       The PM seems reluctant to speak about that part.

[Victorian]

Theresa's Independent Traders.

 

Stick a pony in me pocket I'll fetch the suitcase from the van Cause if you want the best 'uns And you don't ask questions Then brother I'm your man Where it all comes from Is a mystery It's like the changing of the seasons And the tides of the sea But heres the one thats driving me berserk Why do only fools and horses work La la lala - la la la la la (etc)

Written and Performed by John Sullivan

 

Closing Lyrics

We've got some half priced cracked ice And miles and miles of carpet tiles TV's, deep freeze and David Bowie LP's Pool games, gold chains, wosnames And at a push Some Trevor Francis track-suites From a mush in Shepherds Bush, Bush, Bush,  Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush No income tax, no VAT No money back, no guarantee Black or white, rich or broke We'll cut prices at a stroke God bless Hooky Street Viva Hooky Street Long live Hooky Street C'est magnifique Hooky Street Magnifique Hooky Street

[Mikey1874]

55 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

The theatrical chastisement of the opposition benches was beyond parody.    The arrogance and the absolute belief of being above the rule of parliament.     

 

The most important commons vote for years must be fully informed by all of the existing information.      Keeping it classified just wont do the job.     Do they really think that the cloak and dagger routine is going to win over their opponents?     Or some cartoon-like oaf telling off MPs like naughty school kids?

 

 

He (Geoffrey Cox) has been getting loads of praise online because he speaks strongly.

 

Opposition smells blood. Looking to bring down the government. 

[The Mighty Thor]

29 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The PM and currently loyal ministers have been spouting off about all of the wonderful new,  independent trade deals we'll strike after Brexit.     If only parliament would see sense and vote for the blind withdrawal deal.    It now seems that any new,  independent trade deals will never see day1 of implementation until the Brexit transition period ends.     If it ends with no trade deal with the EU and the backstop is activated,    the wonderful new,  independent trade deals will still attract existing EU tariffs... therefore not independent trade deals at all and not at all attractive for potential new,  independent trade partners.     Tariffs and blind uncertainty of deal implementation dates.     They must be falling over each other in the rush.

 

How many years of backstop arrangement will the economy suffer in until the first of these wonderful new,  independent trade deals is able to be implemented?       The PM seems reluctant to speak about that part.

Easiest FTAs in the world. Ever.

 

[Victorian]

7 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

He (Geoffrey Cox) has been getting loads of praise online because he speaks strongly.

 

Opposition smells blood. Looking to bring down the government. 

 

He's just another odious,  contemptible Tory toad.     

[jake]

On 01/12/2018 at 16:08, shaun.lawson said:

Thread.

 

 

Reminds me of the shite you posted about a US official treating someone terribly at immigration.

Just actual shite.

[jake]

No deal.

How anyone can contemplate not getting out now before the meltdown of the EU is staggering.

[jake]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/12/the-next-italian-crisis/

 

Italy could cause a meltdown with such measures as offering unemployed people benefits.

 

Aye Barry.

The EU likes is Barry .

Shaun posts shitey anecdotes.

 

But ignores the plight of southern Europe's workers.

 

Project fear is working a treat

[Victorian]

Speaker has ruled there is an arguable case for a contempt of parliament motion.   Debate and vote tomorrow.    Attorney General and hopefully other liars like the PM could,  in theory,  be taking unexpected sabaticals from the commons.   

[Mikey1874]

8 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Speaker has ruled there is an arguable case for a contempt of parliament motion.   Debate and vote tomorrow.    Attorney General and hopefully other liars like the PM could,  in theory,  be taking unexpected sabaticals from the commons.   

 

A this seems to take a long time. Could be decided after the vote next week. But before May comes back with her new Brexit proposals. 

[Victorian]

29 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

A this seems to take a long time. Could be decided after the vote next week. But before May comes back with her new Brexit proposals. 

 

The government could simply publish the advice that they say contains no further meaningful detail,  in order to move on to the 5 x 8 hour debates.   

 

But they say they will not.

 

This motion will be debated and voted on tomorrow.    If the motion passes then it is referred to the standards committee while the house moves on to the Brexit debate.     The standards committee could rule ministers in contempt (inc PM) and suspend them.     That could cause severe disruption to the debates and vote.     

 

The government is in contempt of parliament and is playing chicken with parliament.     It's the latest in a sad catalogue of the government acting willfully negligent and directly against the national interest.

 

They didn't give a **** before.    They continue to retain all ****s now.

[AlimOzturk]

Could May be found to be in contempt? That really would be hilarious

[shaun.lawson]

4 hours ago, jake said:

Reminds me of the shite you posted about a US official treating someone terribly at immigration.

Just actual shite.

 

How odd, then, that many people posting on that thread have had similar experiences.  

 

There's a rather unfortunate pattern with you, Jake. Whenever someone posts anything bad about Brexit, you deny it. You literally close your ears to reality and ignore it. It's very bizarre to observe. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

6 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

How odd, then, that many people posting on that thread have had similar experiences.  

 

There's a rather unfortunate pattern with you, Jake. Whenever someone posts anything bad about Brexit, you deny it. You literally close your ears to reality and ignore it. It's very bizarre to observe. 

[Sidelight]

10 hours ago, jake said:

No deal.

How anyone can contemplate not getting out now before the meltdown of the EU is staggering.

We are where we are Jake. This down to the acceptance of lies, deception and propaganda distilled down over the years. The EU cabal has been implemented steadily and stealthily over several decades. Irrespective of the will of the people.

 

The United States of Europe looms. A centralised Government with, monetary, fiscal, foreign, regulation and military policy all dictated. A far cry from the EEC. But it seems that many are happy to embrace this reality.

 

Norway voted in 1995 on EU membership. Not surprisingly leading parties were all in favour of ‘in’. However, the people voted ‘out’. In hindsight a great decision.

 

In a world where lies, deception, spin and propaganda permeate the airwaves as truth, I don’t think Britain will be afforded the same opportunity.

 

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by alfajambo

[Victorian]

ECJ rules UK can revoke art50.

 

Highly important information for parliament.    The government didn't even want this known,  even by themselves.      You have to wonder why.    What is known is that they are not fit to govern.

[Don Dan]

The UK should be able to unilaterally cancel its withdrawal from the EU, according to a top European law officer. 
The non-binding opinion was delivered by the the European Court of Justice's advocate general.
A group of Scottish politicians has asked the court whether the UK can call off Brexit without the consent of other member states. 
The Court of Justice (ECJ) will deliver its final ruling at a later date. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

ECJ rules UK can revoke art50.

 

Highly important information for parliament.    The government didn't even want this known,  even by themselves.      You have to wonder why.    What is known is that they are not fit to govern.

[doctor jambo]

On ‎01‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 16:08, shaun.lawson said:

Thread.

 

 

Balls .

most pharma is produced either in the UK, the US, or India.

The generics come from all over.

Pharmacies routinely run out of some stuff. there are also routinely manufacturing issues with some meds.

Brexit hasn't happened yet, so you cannot blame it

[Victorian]

33 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

 

News update on my phone suggested this was an ECJ judgement.    Not quite yet.   FAYK NYOOZ.

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

News update on my phone suggested this was an ECJ judgement.    Not quite yet.   FAYK NYOOZ.

Heard the same.

[Justin Z]

The media screwing up their reporting of a legal ruling/opinion? Colour me shocked.

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

The media screwing up their reporting of a legal ruling/opinion? Colour me shocked.

Final ruling at a later date.

 

[Victorian]

It's the opinion of the ECJ Advocate General and it's said that such an opinion would be adopted as the ECJ ruling in the majority of cases.    So still very significant.   

[Justin Z]

Yeah, it seems a lock certainty that this opinion will be adopted.

 

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Justin Z

[jake]

8 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

How odd, then, that many people posting on that thread have had similar experiences.  

 

There's a rather unfortunate pattern with you, Jake. Whenever someone posts anything bad about Brexit, you deny it. You literally close your ears to reality and ignore it. It's very bizarre to observe. 

I refer you to the doctors answer.

 

Nothing to do with my views on brexit.

It's to do with you posting scare stories that don't stand up to reality.

 

 

[Mikey1874]

5 days seems a long time to debate 

 

Will it be split into topics e.g. border with Ireland? Or is it so everyone gets a chance to speak to get a headline in their local area?

 

Be a lot of repetition - 450 people saying much the same thing versus about 200 trying to defend the Deal. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

Balls .

most pharma is produced either in the UK, the US, or India.

The generics come from all over.

Pharmacies routinely run out of some stuff. there are also routinely manufacturing issues with some meds.

Brexit hasn't happened yet, so you cannot blame it

 

Just wait until we run out of water to take the tablets with. UK = desert.

[Victorian]

The Leave response to the possibility of article 50 revocation?

 

That it's more urgent than ever to back the PMs deal.

 

Quick.. quick.. let's jump in front of the bus before the driver slams on the brakes.

[Ibrahim Tall]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

5 days seems a long time to debate 

 

Will it be split into topics e.g. border with Ireland? Or is it so everyone gets a chance to speak to get a headline in their local area?

 

Be a lot of repetition - 450 people saying much the same thing versus about 200 trying to defend the Deal. 

 

Tbh think 200 is optimistic, I’d imagine even if that many ‘vote’ for the deal only a small fraction of that’ll genuinely support or believe in it enough to argue.

[Francis Albert]

I suppose stockpiling is an understandable safeguard but the whole cliff edge thing is nonsense of the Project Fear variety (and of course nothing creates shortages more than panic buying and stockpiling).

Whatever happens, deal or no deal,  there will be a transitional period. It is in absolutely no-ones interest  not to have one.

I know we are told by remainers that we need the EU more than they need us ... but imagine if the French had to lay off Citroen, Renault and Puegot workers or put them on a short working week because of an overnight loss of a major market. A great boost to the gilet jaunes ranks .

[Martin_T]

13 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I suppose stockpiling is an understandable safeguard but the whole cliff edge thing is nonsense of the Project Fear variety (and of course nothing creates shortages more than panic buying and stockpiling).

Whatever happens, deal or no deal,  there will be a transitional period. It is in absolutely no-ones interest  not to have one.

I know we are told by remainers that we need the EU more than they need us ... but imagine if the French had to lay off Citroen, Renault and Puegot workers or put them on a short working week because of an overnight loss of a major market. A great boost to the gilet jaunes ranks .

 

Remainers of which you are one, given that you voted Remain.

[doctor jambo]

1 hour ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

Jesus wept

He should move here - we will shortly run out of nails and crosses, and at least the Romans would need to apply for a visa.

[Francis Albert]

56 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

 

Remainers of which you are one, given that you voted Remain.

 But I didn't swallow Project Fear nor am I a great fan of the EU. And I accepted the result rather than immediately set about reversing it like so many Remainers

Edited December 4, 2018 by Francis Albert

[ri Alban]

7 hours ago, alfajambo said:

We are where we are Jake. This down to the acceptance of lies, deception and propaganda distilled down over the years. The EU cabal has been implemented steadily and stealthily over several decades. Irrespective of the will of the people.

 

The United States of Europe looms. A centralised Government with, monetary, fiscal, foreign, regulation and military policy all dictated. A far cry from the EEC. But it seems that many are happy to embrace this reality.

 

Norway voted in 1995 on EU membership. Not surprisingly leading parties were all in favour of ‘in’. However, the people voted ‘out’. In hindsight a great decision.

 

In a world where lies, deception, spin and propaganda permeate the airwaves as truth, I don’t think Britain will be afforded the same opportunity.

 

 

Someone from the USA moaning about scaremongering, then goes on about the fantastical bs, that is EUSSR. 

[Mikey1874]

Going to be a long night

 

8 hours dedicated to the Brexit debate. But still debating the legal advice. 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Mikey1874

[Thunderstruck]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

I suppose stockpiling is an understandable safeguard but the whole cliff edge thing is nonsense of the Project Fear variety (and of course nothing creates shortages more than panic buying and stockpiling).

Whatever happens, deal or no deal,  there will be a transitional period. It is in absolutely no-ones interest  not to have one.

I know we are told by remainers that we need the EU more than they need us ... but imagine if the French had to lay off Citroen, Renault and Puegot workers or put them on a short working week because of an overnight loss of a major market. A great boost to the gilet jaunes ranks .

 

Or Airbus where vital components (I’m sure wings qualify as such) might lie at the wrong side of a tariff barrier in North Wales. It won’t take long before delays to €400m aircraft production causes delivery delays and the invoking of penalty clauses. 

 

Fear (and dirty politics) is a 2-way Street. 

[Mikey1874]

5 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Or Airbus where vital components (I’m sure wings qualify as such) might lie at the wrong side of a tariff barrier in North Wales. It won’t take long before delays to €400m aircraft production causes delivery delays and the invoking of penalty clauses. 

 

Fear (and dirty politics) is a 2-way Street. 

 

There are possibly serious effects

 

No Guinness very quickly 

 

I do think it is more likely EU and UK having hopefully prepared for all the risks will do a 'No Deal' deal to allow trade to flow. 

[Francis Albert]

36 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

There are possibly serious effects

 

No Guinness very quickly 

 

I do think it is more likely EU and UK having hopefully prepared for all the risks will do a 'No Deal' deal to allow trade to flow. 

Of course. Alternatively Airbus could press on and sell airplanes without wings. Or lay off thousands of workers in Toulouse to add to Macron's problems in that city and every other city in France.

[Thunderstruck]

58 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

There are possibly serious effects

 

No Guinness very quickly 

 

I do think it is more likely EU and UK having hopefully prepared for all the risks will do a 'No Deal' deal to allow trade to flow. 

 

Guinness Nigeria would quickly be on overtime and a couple of Supertankers chartered for delivery. I’m sure Diageo have contingency plans. 

[Don Dan]

Can of worms just been open and the hinges welded open on Pandoras Box. This now means all legal advise in all governments across the country need to be published in full, past and present when asked and done so in all fairness. 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

I do think it is more likely EU and UK having hopefully prepared for all the risks will do a 'No Deal' deal to allow trade to flow. 

Does anything that has happened in the last 2 years 5 months indicate to you that this pitiful shower have prepared for anything?

 

It is, was and has been a complete cluster**** from the get go.

Edited December 4, 2018 by The Mighty Thor